Official Pac-Man's Amazing Full Colour Fan Club! - Pac-Man General Thread

[dragontamer]

Now picking up the fruits in the first place can be a challenge. Here's some ways I've found to pick these up easily:

-Cherry: Just follow it, water gush it back to yourself, or throw it at a slant.
-Strawberry: Same as the above.
-Orange: I honestly don't have a clue on how to grab this one easily. Maybe with a slant? I don't remember if that works for Orange.
-Apple: Water gush it. Slants don't work, although it does get interesting properties on slants.
-Melon: Following it works, but the opponent can easily grab it away from you. Slants are another way, or hitting your hydrant then catching it.
-Galaga Ship: Follow it or throw it at a platform.
-Bell: Follow it. It can be caught through Hydrant gushing, but the water gushed bell is so good it's sometimes worth leaving it out.
-Key: I don't know. Have the opponent catch it, throw it back, then catch it yourself?

You can't catch a "rethrown" fruit. All fruits seem to have a counter and can only be caught once.

But... it is possible to self-catch a key on the majority of stages.

Key Regrab tech

With a grabbed key, you can instantly zdrop the key and launch the hydrant. Zdropped key is the fastest hydrant launch. There are a variety of ways to ZDrop key into hydrant launch, including dropping the key first, and also hydrant-first launching.

Speaking of fruits... DON'T LET THE OPPONENT GRAB YOUR FRUIT (ESPECIALLY BELL)! This is very, VERY important, especially if the character in question has projectiles of any kind.
Once an opponent has your fruit, if they know the matchup then they know they have literally nothing to fear from you at a range anymore. Hydrant launches are reactable, so they can just wait and shield, or even worse, if they have a decent projectile, shoot it right when you are about to use a move that launches.

I'm not 100% sure. Strawberry and Cherry are awful in hand for most characters, and they shut down the opponent's neutral game. A Shiek who holds onto Strawberry / Cherry loses Jabs, Tilts, and all aerials.

Against like... Lucario, with great B Attacks, yeah, its a problem. But with characters with primarily "A" attacks, holding onto fruit shuts down a number of options.

When the opponent dies, throw a trampoline right where they will respawn.
This will kill their invulnerability time and can even sometimes lead to a punish as they have no choice but to hit that as soon as they come back.

If they got star KO'd/screen splatted, make it either red or set it to the highest bounce, depending on the stage (Example, free fall is less useful on a stage like BF since they won't fall far, but on Skyworld it can eat the entire invulnerability time and give you a punish.).

That sounds seriously mean. I'll have to try that.

 

[Paper Maribro]

I tried the whole trampoline invulnerability thing and it didnt seem to change their invulnerability time at all. They literally just jumped off it like normal. Red trampoline would be nice of course because thats a free punish but the blue/yellow dont seem all that useful compared to charging fruit.

 

[BSP]

I'm not 100% sure. Strawberry and Cherry are awful in hand for most characters, and they shut down the opponent's neutral game. A Shiek who holds onto Strawberry / Cherry loses Jabs, Tilts, and all aerials.

Not aerials. They can Zdrop whatever they're holding and immediately aerial to pick it back up + do their aerial.

 

[Nu~]

You can still jab, smash attack, and tilt

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CqjqxVuLMf4

 

[fromundaman]

I should clarify: I was tired and used the expression "Kills invincibility" when I meant "Keeps them from doing what they want for their invincible period". I'm sorry for the confusion.

However allow me to explain why this is useful:

-For one, it means that they won't be able to come after you while invincible.

-Two, so long as they take 2nd bounce or 3rd bounce, their invincibility will run out in the air. In this game that's kind of a big deal as landings are rather punishable.

-Finally, on stages where the respawn platform is far enough above the ground, the red trampoline will make their invincibility run out during the free fall animation, netting you a punish (But you do need to be fast as it usually runs out around when they are about to hit the ground).

God if it got rid of invincibility altogether that would be so broke. Bell would be guaranteed on respawn.
_______

You can't catch a "rethrown" fruit. All fruits seem to have a counter and can only be caught once.

But... it is possible to self-catch a key on the majority of stages.

Key Regrab tech

With a grabbed key, you can instantly zdrop the key and launch the hydrant. Zdropped key is the fastest hydrant launch. There are a variety of ways to ZDrop key into hydrant launch, including dropping the key first, and also hydrant-first launching.



I'm not 100% sure. Strawberry and Cherry are awful in hand for most characters, and they shut down the opponent's neutral game. A Shiek who holds onto Strawberry / Cherry loses Jabs, Tilts, and all aerials.

Against like... Lucario, with great B Attacks, yeah, its a problem. But with characters with primarily "A" attacks, holding onto fruit shuts down a number of options.



That sounds seriously mean. I'll have to try that.

Thanks for the link. That looks neat although that seems really punishable. I'm going to have to work with that, because it does seem REALLY good if we can pull it off without getting killed for it.
Weird though. I knew we couldn't throw our own fruit twice but thought we could regrab it from someone else. I'm probably mixing it up with Megaman's Saw Blade, which I know I've regrabbed before.


_____


As someone mentioned, you can do attacks with an item in hand, or Z-drop then regrab with an aerial (I do this a fair amount with MM). Even beyond that though, if the opponent catches the fruit with the life lead, they can camp hard.
I've had Absol, a Sheik player, outcamp and time out my megaman from catching the saw blade. Megaman has better projectiles even without saw blade, better movement speed, better aerial range AND a better grab than Pacman, and catching Shiek is still really really hard at that point, especially since she still has an invincible OoS UpB that moves her, a fast moving move that has almost no hurtbox, and one of the best projectiles in the game still easily available through her specials.
It might even be worse with fruits as I wouldn't be surprised if some of those fruits comboed into bouncing fish.

Characters off the top of my head you don't really want holding onto your fruits, regardless of which it is, either because they can camp you or force you to approach while still having easily accessible defensive tools:

-Shiek
-Sonic
-Rosalina (Then again you don't even want to play this MU)
-Olimar
-Falco
-Bowser (Invincible UpB OoS, fire to space and a command grab are still available, meaning being forced to approach is bad)
-Marth/Lucina (Invincible UpB OoS and Side B both punish approaches)
-MK (Can easily camp you AND has an invincible OoS UpB)
-DHD
-ZSS
-Bowser Jr.
-Kirby IF he has your power or is on a stupid CP like Kongo Jungle 64
-Wario with Fart charged
-Villager
-DK
-Ness

You get the idea...

 

[Nu~]

I've had Absol, a Sheik player, outcamp and time out my megaman from catching the saw blade. Megaman has better projectiles even without saw blade,

Umm, how? Sheik destroyed you because you had only pellets and the crash bomber when she stole your blade. Both of which can't be better than all 8 of our fruit and a hydrant.
Sure you can add in up air and dair, but they aren't nearly as clutch.

I do agree with you about not wanting to lose out fruit though.

 

[fromundaman]

Umm, how? Sheik destroyed you because you had only pellets and the crash bomber when she stole your blade. Both of which can't be better than all 8 of our fruit and a hydrant.
Sure you can add in up air and dair, but they aren't nearly as clutch.

I do agree with you about not wanting to lose out fruit though.

That's not exactly how that MU plays out at that point, but that's neither here nor there.

This was just an example of what happens if she grabs your item. If we were to sub Megaman for Pacman (I haven't played this MU against a Shiek of Absol's calibur, but even a lower level shieks did what I'm about to describe), if she grabs your fruit and needle camps you, your only ranged option is to throw a hydrant. If you do that, she can start charging needles on reaction.
From here, how are you going to launch it?

-If you Bair it she gets to launch the hydrant for free as any number of needles will launch it after a Bair.

-If you pop down and Fsmash, she can simply not release the needles and keep them until Fsmash hits the hydrant, punish the Fsmash with needles, then block the hydrant unless she is closer than the 1st bounces distance. At that distance she can simply duck the hydrant and give no ****s. She may even be able to punish from there although I haven't seen it yet.

-If you hit it with any other aerial, then this mixes it up a little, but assuming the Shiek knows to not release needles unless she sees the Bair, then she can just keep charging them. At full charge they will launch hydrant after damn near any move we hit it with.

 

[Nu~]

Oh, I understand everything you were saying lol. I feel it all too much.
I just wanted to know how megaman has better projectiles. But I guess you meant without our fruit

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah I meant no fruit vs no saw blade.

That said he does have better projectiles considering lemons cancel out everything that isn't key or bell and can be jump canceled. His metal blades also have much better angles, especially considering you don't need to charge in order to change where they go, unlike Pacman.
That said, despite Crash Bombs being good for traps, he is nowhere near Pacman's level when it comes to traps and setups.
He's also far worse in teams IMO.

____

On a side note, If you guys aren't already doing this, hold shield when you do an aerial during it's animation, especially for SHs. This will allow you to input anything you want while in the air afterwards and won't put you in airdodge, but it will buffer a shield at the earliest possible moment when you hit the ground.

This is imperative when doing SH Fairs since it allows you to punish or follow up with a second aerial if they get hit or roll, but also allows you to retreat and shield lag-lessly when you hit the ground if they blocked the first Fair.

 

[Nu~]

Actually, pellets lose to melon and above. It's what I use to approach the other megamains that I fight.

And for versatility in projectiles, pacman wins. For spammibility in projectiles, mega man takes the cake

 

[fromundaman]

On a side note, I am still labbing and found some interesting things. And by interesting things, I mean we can set up Fsmash>Bell>Fsmash combos, footstool>hydrant>Bell>Fsmash combos and Bthrow>Bell>Fsmash combos.

With the exception of the footstool one, the other two are done by grabbing bell in your hand. After that throw out a hydrant, immediately run off of it and throw the bell up in the air. For the grab combo, run forward and grab. For the Fsmashx2 combo, start charging a smash roughly a character length in front of where you threw the bell.

For the Fsmashx2 combo, the water will push you to them, then push the bell right behind you so that no matter the %, the two will combo. After that you can connect a second Fsmash. I sadly am doing training mode alone right now, so I don't know what this does to shields.

For the Bthrow, you need to run forward and grab ASAP and throw them back towards the bell. If you do it right, the bell will hit right as they leave your hands, allowing you to Fsmash.



For the footstool combo, well that one is pretty self-explanatory. At %s where hydrant won't knock them too far (30-50% range), you can do a grounded footstool (Probably works for aerial too) into a dropped fire hydrant, and since throwing an item is faster than neutral B's normal startup time, you can throw bell after this and have it combo. At the percents, the bell will hit right next to you and a buffered Forward Smash will combo.


I will get a recording of this done in the next few days to better explain what I mean.

I really want to end a tournament match with one of these now.

EDIT:
When I get a training partner over, I'll test if a Fair can combo into the water gushed bell used in the first 2 setups to cover their ability to jump. If it does then this goes from a flashy and gimmicky trap to a truly stupid setup.

 

[Nu~]

Another thing to add. If you catch the galaxian, you can throw it down wIth a hydrant following after it to make a very dangerous edeguard for those who want to recover low against us like Mario.

 

[fromundaman]

I'm going to uploading videos of things I either talked about in this thread or found recently in the next few days.



On a side note, I saw the posts in the competitive discussion thread and have a perhaps weird request:

Please don't tell people about our tech.

I have been through this many times before in other games (Usually as the one up-playing), and discussion, no matter how good, will mean nothing without tournament results to accompany it. Hearing someone say "We have an unblockable ledge setup!" doesn't make people think "Broken" until they actually see/experience it.
What it will do however is make people go "Oh ****, let's lab a way out of this", ruining setups and potential before they get to see the light of day.

I did this a lot in Injustice actually, and as a result top level players who had never even played against my character (Joker) still knew ways out of the setups I had shared online simply because they had labbed it out when I presented them.

So yeah, please allow us to actually use our tech in tournaments before announcing to the world how our character works. Allow people to under-estimate us or not understand how Pacman works on a fundamental level; this works to our advantage.
If we do instead choose to spread tech before getting results, then we will hinder our own efforts to have our character win.

If it comes to that, I will stop sharing tech; I don't want my opponents to know how to counter me before we even get a chance to play.

 

[Nu~]

I'm going to uploading videos of things I either talked about in this thread or found recently in the next few days.



On a side note, I saw the posts in the competitive discussion thread and have a perhaps weird request:

Please don't tell people about our tech.

I have been through this many times before in other games (Usually as the one up-playing), and discussion, no matter how good, will mean nothing without tournament results to accompany it. Hearing someone say "We have an unblockable ledge setup!" doesn't make people think "Broken" until they actually see/experience it.
What it will do however is make people go "Oh ****, let's lab a way out of this", ruining setups and potential before they get to see the light of day.

I did this a lot in Injustice actually, and as a result top level players who had never even played against my character (Joker) still knew ways out of the setups I had shared online simply because they had labbed it out when I presented them.

So yeah, please allow us to actually use our tech in tournaments before announcing to the world how our character works. Allow people to under-estimate us or not understand how Pacman works on a fundamental level; this works to our advantage.
If we do instead choose to spread tech before getting results, then we will hinder our own efforts to have our character win.

If it comes to that, I will stop sharing tech; I don't want my opponents to know how to counter me before we even get a chance to play.

Way ahead of you man. It's just frustrating to hear people call your character trash with "no potential" before even letting the meta evolve or fully understanding the character. But I understand.
The ones who call our character trash will be the ones who's throats will end up underneath pac's boots

 

[WeirdChillFever]

When people call Pac trash I actually like it because they probably don't know him yet.

 

[fromundaman]

Way ahead of you man. It's just frustrating to hear people call your character trash with "no potential" before even letting the meta evolve or fully understanding the character. But I understand.
The ones who call our character trash will be the ones who's throats will end up underneath pac's boots

Exactly. Let them underestimate us and we'll show them the potential by beating them down.


A personal anecdote related to this topic:
I was at UFGT this last year and despite only doing okay (One spot from getting into the top 16 for Injustice), I did actually end up 20-0ing one of the top 16 placers, even double perfecting him once. This guy had always been a loud advocate about how worthless Joker was and how learning that MU was a waste of time, then got murdered by one in tournament and one in friendlies.

I would rather fight someone like that then someone who has labbed out answers to everything I throw at them and forces me to play twice as hard to mix them up for the win.


_________

On a side note, did you know you can grab through the hydrant? It can be useful for punishing someone trying to knock it away, and the water can push you back a safe distance if you whiff.

_________

EDIT:

Also, out of curiosity, how are you guys dealing with reflectors? They seem to give me a lot of issues.

 

[Nu~]

All reflectors don't bother me much due to how easily baited they can be. Many come out slowly on this game, and end slowly making them more of a commitment like counters now.
The only thing they stop is your ability to camp then out (which isn't what we do anyway) so I play a mid range game with them and make it so that it's too risky for them to want to throw their reflectors out.

 

[Firedemon0]

EDIT:

Also, out of curiosity, how are you guys dealing with reflectors? They seem to give me a lot of issues.

Very easily. The thing to keep in mind is that the fruit have a max range, if you learn to time it right you can actually just make them reflect, think they have you, and it poofs while you come in with a dash grab or attack. Better foxes are able to use their oos options after reflecting. In those cases, you would avoid a dash attack or grab and shield instead, then punish the oos option. The Pit Orbitars are really underwhelming and very easy to punish. With Mario's Cape is similar, but if they spam it, you can be turned around awkwardly. Paletuna's has bad end lag, and is susceptible to a hydrant strike from above. Falco's is a bit more interesting, if used correctly we have a hard time getting in because of it's range. If it is spammed, it is easy to punish however.

The trick to reflectors is to understand how it will come back at you. You do not want to have Hydrant reflected back up in your face from Fox when trying to get back to the ground. Launched Hydrants follow very predictable arcs, which continue when reflected, and you should know how they bounce. Part of the trap game is the Hydrant and reacting to the player's method of breaking it.

At the same time, I do want to suggest we have some discussion on how certain characters angle the hydrant when breaking it with attacks. For example Falcon's Raptor Boost when it breaks hydrant launches it with a very high and large arc, making it poor to be slightly in front and above hydrant. Or when Shulk F-smashes hydrant, how it comes at Pac-man at a similar angle as a Ftilt from Pac-man breaking it.

 

[BSP]

_________

On a side note, did you know you can grab through the hydrant? It can be useful for punishing someone trying to knock it away, and the water can push you back a safe distance if you whiff.
.

Yeah, found out the hard way when Samus kept grabbing me through it. Be careful.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Pac is far from bad. Also his left and right taunts should be fingers pointing with a voice saying Look Look!

 

[WeirdChillFever]

GUYS!

We can punish tether recoveries by placing a trampoline under the opponent when they're latched on the ledge.

They bounce 3 times and become helpless. :3

EDIT:

It's done if an opponent jumps on a trampoline and the uses tether.

 

[meleebrawler]

Very easily. The thing to keep in mind is that the fruit have a max range, if you learn to time it right you can actually just make them reflect, think they have you, and it poofs while you come in with a dash grab or attack. Better foxes are able to use their oos options after reflecting. In those cases, you would avoid a dash attack or grab and shield instead, then punish the oos option. The Pit Orbitars are really underwhelming and very easy to punish. With Mario's Cape is similar, but if they spam it, you can be turned around awkwardly. Paletuna's has bad end lag, and is susceptible to a hydrant strike from above. Falco's is a bit more interesting, if used correctly we have a hard time getting in because of it's range. If it is spammed, it is easy to punish however.

The trick to reflectors is to understand how it will come back at you. You do not want to have Hydrant reflected back up in your face from Fox when trying to get back to the ground. Launched Hydrants follow very predictable arcs, which continue when reflected, and you should know how they bounce. Part of the trap game is the Hydrant and reacting to the player's method of breaking it.

At the same time, I do want to suggest we have some discussion on how certain characters angle the hydrant when breaking it with attacks. For example Falcon's Raptor Boost when it breaks hydrant launches it with a very high and large arc, making it poor to be slightly in front and above hydrant. Or when Shulk F-smashes hydrant, how it comes at Pac-man at a similar angle as a Ftilt from Pac-man breaking it.

For the record, Palutena isn't rooted in place the entire time her reflector is out.
It also pushes and can do damage point blank. It comes out very fast and stays
out for a decent time compared to other reflectors.

She also doesn't need to reflect a dropped hydrant when she can just blast it with a
column of light instead.

 

[Firedemon0]

For the record, Palutena isn't rooted in place the entire time her reflector is out.
It also pushes and can do damage point blank. It comes out very fast and stays
out for a decent time compared to other reflectors.

She also doesn't need to reflect a dropped hydrant when she can just blast it with a
column of light instead.

Not in anyway that is dangerous. Super speed builds drop her barrier, It is really underwhelming and not a lost at all to her abilities. If she commits to barrier as a proactive measure, mid range, she will not be able to be fast enough to react with up smash.

 

[meleebrawler]

I don't think Palutena would like to run Super Speed against Pac-Man's trampolines.
Lightweight would probably work better for avoiding Pac-Man's nonsense.

Pac-Man also just isn't fast enough to punish Reflect in any way other than
a well-aimed Apple except at really close range, where she'll be jabbing instead.
Power Pellet won't work against it since the pellet is considered a projectile
(I'm serious, it's stopped by Franklin Badges).

Super Speed is very good, but it has enough issues that Reflect really is preferable
at times.

 

[Jay-kun]

Is PacMAN! the campiest character? If not then who? ~<3

 

[meleebrawler]

Is PacMAN! the campiest character? If not then who? ~<3

Probably Villager if he can use his tripping sapling.

 

[Jay-kun]

Probably Villager if he can use his tripping sapling.

Really? Doesn't Pacman have best stage control? Stationary hydrant+trampoline~<3

 

[BSP]

Just in case it hasn't been figured out, Pac-Man can jump after a SH Bair, but I'm pretty sure you have to buffer the Bair before he jumps or else you'll hit the ground before his DJ comes out. You may have to buffer the jump too.

Edit: assuming the challonge brackets are correct, both Abadango and Kool Aid were first seeds after wave 1 of pools. Hopefully Pac-Man stops getting called trash...

...and hopefully people learn him so we have to push ourselves. Tomorrow should be interesting.

 

[BlazGreen]

assuming the challonge brackets are correct, both Abadango and Kool Aid were first seeds after wave 1 of pools. Hopefully Pac-Man stops getting called trash...

...and hopefully people learn him so we have to push ourselves. Tomorrow should be interesting.

Abudango has reached top 8 Losers in epic fashion. Here's hoping he can somehow beat Dabuz.

 

[Jay-kun]

Just in case it hasn't been figured out, Pac-Man can jump after a SH Bair, but I'm pretty sure you have to buffer the Bair before he jumps or else you'll hit the ground before his DJ comes out. You may have to buffer the jump too.

Edit: assuming the challonge brackets are correct, both Abadango and Kool Aid were first seeds after wave 1 of pools. Hopefully Pac-Man stops getting called trash...

...and hopefully people learn him so we have to push ourselves. Tomorrow should be interesting.

I'd rather have him be called trash than have everyone main him.

 

[Nu~]

I'd rather have him be called trash than have everyone main him.

Pikachu, rosa, and yoshi are good, but not everyone mains them.
The complexity of the character will keep tier whores away.

 

[Phampy]

I haven't been keeping up with Apex but I noticed Abadango made it to top 8 with Pacman. That's impressive. Makes me want to take my Pacman for a spin in tourney. It's amazing how this character clicked with me after months of using Shulk and Jigglypuff.

 

[Jay-kun]

I haven't been keeping up with Apex but I noticed Abadango made it to top 8 with Pacman. That's impressive. Makes me want to take my Pacman for a spin in tourney. It's amazing how this character clicked with me after months of using Shulk and Jigglypuff.

And, that is expected! RIGHT?!

Pikachu, rosa, and yoshi are good, but not everyone mains them.
The complexity of the character will keep tier *****s away.

"will keep tier *****s away"

 

[BSP]

On a side note, I saw the posts in the competitive discussion thread and have a perhaps weird request:

Please don't tell people about our tech.

So yeah, please allow us to actually use our tech in tournaments before announcing to the world how our character works. Allow people to under-estimate us or not understand how Pacman works on a fundamental level; this works to our advantage.
If we do instead choose to spread tech before getting results, then we will hinder our own efforts to have our character win.

If it comes to that, I will stop sharing tech; I don't want my opponents to know how to counter me before we even get a chance to play.

OK, but how do you plan to stop people from coming this board? I know what you mean, but smart people will do their research. I guess that's better than blurting everything out though. I don't think that many people watch the boards anyway. I still see surprised people when they learn that Pac-Man's up B is unblockable.

Also, can you get some videos of you using Pac-Man in doubles? I'm having trouble visualizing how it works.

On a different note, my Pac-Man fire got reignited out of jealousy lol. Kool Aid and Abadango aren't the only two people that play this character!

I hit up some wi-fail tonight and tried to do more of what I saw them doing. Namely, using the Apple. and less camping for a more dynamic style based on the situation and opponent.

This character never ceases to surprise me. Whoever said he's a toolbox is right.

Spoiler

I never thought about using cherry's slow movement as a meaty hitbox to help cover ledge getups, and despite how slow and weak it is, people still rather shield it or avoid it, giving you time / pressure / something to punish.

Strawberry has massive range no matter how you throw it. For a long time I wouldn't bother with it because I thought Orange was a straight upgrade, but as I said, its range is better depending on how you throw it, and its trajectory is better in certain cases, plus it's a mixup when people are expecting you to get oranges.

Apple is legit. I slept on its speed and power, and it's great for punishing people fooling around with a dropped hydrant and low recovering opponents.

Never thought about gushing Melon to cover my own approaches. It's also hard to remember that when you throw it down, it's basically a sitting hitbox that covers the ledge well.

Never thought of re catching Galaxian to give another z drop hydrant launcher, albeit slower. Its instant toss combos are pretty sick too. Launching the hydrant with it, especially the first hit, gives some sick pressure when Pac-Man follows behind it.

Bell is something worth running the heck away from if you're vs. Pac-Man. Never considered using its meatiness to my advantage to make people scared on the ledge and in neutral.

Key is still key, but the other stuff is great too. I might be ignoring it bit too much as of late.

Some of this stuff may be obvious and you may be like "I've been doing that forever lol", but that just goes to show how deep this guy is. I'm getting close to 40 Hrs with him and I visit the boards quite a bit, yet I'm still learning new things quickly. TBH there's almost too much stuff to remember for each match. I remember hugely advocating hydrant + trampoline on the ledge, but then I forget to set it up when I've got time. I also find myself questioning myself on what fruit to stop on at any given time. Never thought about placing the trampoline under invincibility platforms either, that's golden.

 

[Nu~]

OK, but how do you plan to stop people from coming this board? I know what you mean, but smart people will do their research. I guess that's better than blurting everything out though. I don't think that many people watch the boards anyway. I still see surprised people when they learn that Pac-Man's up B is unblockable.

Also, can you get some videos of you using Pac-Man in doubles? I'm having trouble visualizing how it works.

On a different note, my Pac-Man fire got reignited out of jealousy lol. Kool Aid and Abadango aren't the only two people that play this character!

I hit up some wi-fail tonight and tried to do more of what I saw them doing. Namely, using the Apple. and less camping for a more dynamic style based on the situation and opponent.

This character never ceases to surprise me. Whoever said he's a toolbox is right.

Spoiler

I never thought about using cherry's slow movement as a meaty hitbox to help cover ledge getups, and despite how slow and weak it is, people still rather shield it or avoid it, giving you time / pressure / something to punish.

Strawberry has massive range no matter how you throw it. For a long time I wouldn't bother with it because I thought Orange was a straight upgrade, but as I said, its range is better depending on how you throw it, and its trajectory is better in certain cases, plus it's a mixup when people are expecting you to get oranges.

Apple is legit. I slept on its speed and power, and it's great for punishing people fooling around with a dropped hydrant and low recovering opponents.

Never thought about gushing Melon to cover my own approaches. It's also hard to remember that when you throw it down, it's basically a sitting hitbox that covers the ledge well.

Never thought of re catching Galaxian to give another z drop hydrant launcher, albeit slower. Its instant toss combos are pretty sick too. Launching the hydrant with it, especially the first hit, gives some sick pressure when Pac-Man follows behind it.

Bell is something worth running the heck away from if you're vs. Pac-Man. Never considered using its meatiness to my advantage to make people scared on the ledge and in neutral.

Key is still key, but the other stuff is great too. I might be ignoring it bit too much as of late.

Some of this stuff may be obvious and you may be like "I've been doing that forever lol", but that just goes to show how deep this guy is. I'm getting close to 40 Hrs with him and I visit the boards quite a bit, yet I'm still learning new things quickly. TBH there's almost too much stuff to remember for each match. I remember hugely advocating hydrant + trampoline on the ledge, but then I forget to set it up when I've got time. I also find myself questioning myself on what fruit to stop on at any given time. Never thought about placing the trampoline under invincibility platforms either, that's golden.

I told you bro lol. This character is amazing with all the things he can do

 

[Jay-kun]

Sooo couldn't you airdodge instant throw some bonus fruits like a strawberry?

 

[fromundaman]

OK, but how do you plan to stop people from coming this board? I know what you mean, but smart people will do their research. I guess that's better than blurting everything out though. I don't think that many people watch the boards anyway. I still see surprised people when they learn that Pac-Man's up B is unblockable.

Also, can you get some videos of you using Pac-Man in doubles? I'm having trouble visualizing how it works.

....

Never thought about placing the trampoline under invincibility platforms either, that's golden.

Oh without a doubt, and if they can wade through all of this to find the tech, then more power to them. No need to make it easier.

That said, IDK about "good players will do research". I remember a drunk M2K doing all random matches with people at one of Nope's monthlies some years back and having no idea what Lucas' moveset was at all.



As for the doubles... Ask and you shall recieve... eventually. I'm currently trying to go through roughly 80-ish replays to finish combo/setup videos for MM and this board, and I have a few doubles matches in there I'll throw up when I get the time.



Trampoline under the respawn platform is something I was starting to lose some faith in until recently. In some matchups, this is incredibly good.
For example, Olimar. This keeps him in the air for his invincible period, meaning he can't pull pikmin safely. Pressure the **** out of him when he lands to try and keep him from pulling. Sure, he'll eventually get Pikmin out, but you can rack on some decent damage while he's missing most of his moveset.



EDIT:

After sorting and converting around 50 Pacman replays for a combo video, I am realizing the irony of the first sentence of this post.

 

[Nu~]

It's also good for characters who charge like samus, DK, and Wii Fit
They can't use the invincibility for breathing room

 

[BSP]

It may take a while, but I think it may be worth figuring out and making a list of what % on each character galaxian starts setting up for itself nicely. I'm sure you guys have noticed by now that at low %, unless you can fair them in time, they can shield before galaxian hits them again, and at higher percents, they fly too far away for combos.

Galaxian thrown from Bonus Fruit has 50% potential and possibly KO confirms if it's done at the right % and followed up properly.

 

[dragontamer]

I've been playing around with this approach at Xanadu. Didn't seem to work vs stronger players, but it does show what PacMan can do.

1. Throw Melon, full screen.
2. SH Fair to catch the Melon before it hits the opponent. DK was charging up B and standing still for this part.
3. SH Fair hits opponent, z-drop melon. Melon strikes opponent, 17% dmg on board.
4. Falling Nair which hits opponent and simultaneously catches Melon.
5. Throw Melon on landing.
6. Fair Nair the off-stage opponent back a bit.
7. Hydrant as DK tries to recover. (Managed to get around 3 hydrants on his recovery, since he lost his double-jump. Probably my mistake for not KOing him outright honestly, I think I could have gimped him here if I had better timing. DK without double-jump == lulz)

I started the match 10 seconds in and was already 0% vs 70%+ by the time the game returned to neutral. I kinda thought it was a fluke, but then I managed to do it again later against another opponent. Z-Drop shenannigans were what I was experimenting with that day.

I was knocked out by a Luigi and Ness (double-elimination). I always feel like the Ness matchup is difficult, I don't really know how to DI against the triple-sparkle FAir. After the match, he said that PacMan's SH Fair was difficult to deal with. I did manage to KO him first in both matches, but he came back in 2nd stock in both games (best 2 out of 3). I grew impatient with myself and started to throw out a lot of random FSmashes, probably a bad idea in hindsight.

Luigi was just a more solid player than me. He was able to punish virtually everything and I wasn't playing as solidly as I wanted. I jab-jab-jabed without hitconfirming, whiffed grabs, everything. Great Luigi player for keeping the pressure up, but I wasn't really satisfied with my performance. On the other hand, the Luigi player ended up facing up against Boss's Luigi in finals, so maybe I shouldn't be too sad about losing to that guy.

Honestly, I need to play against more players like that Luigi. I know in my mind that I shouldn't jab-jab-jab randomly for example, but my habits are still wonky and wrong. Heck, Jab-Jab is punishable on whiff, and I really should be hitconfirming before pressing that button again.