Pac-Man Custom Moveset Discussion

[Galaxian]

How do you know this btw? It'd be nice to have some communication with arguably the best Pac-Man atm.

BUT THAT'S MEEEEEEEEEE

I'm joking

 

[Firedemon0]

Well the custom movesets came down to benefits for Pac-man. I'll be honest that I pushed for PPJ in some of the sets.

PPJ gives Pac-man a great combo tool that still works on shields, and while predictable, unable to be stolen recovery.

Meteor Trampoline gives Pac-man a meteor, a good one at that, something that is lacking in his strong Offstage game. It also is less likely to be stolen, because if you miss the first jump to get back, you are dead anyway.

What does default provide? It provides the best recovery, but its toolkit onstage is outclassed by the other options in my opinion.

Posed with the same question, I would still keep default trampoline out of the sets personally. 1112, while nice, is not as effective as 1132, and 2132 expands stage control even more. How often do you find yourself using that 3rd bounce that wasn't a side B mistake?

Personally? I don't. I stand by our sets, if enticing pellet was a bit faster, or was Kong cyclone powerful. I would gladly give up another trampoline setup. As it stands, I cannot. We will have to wait to see how the patch changes anything.

 

[Pacack]

How do you know this btw? It'd be nice to have some communication with arguably the best Pac-Man atm.

His twitter.

https://twitter.com/Abadangowario

 

[WeirdChillFever]

We do have a Trampoline Set.

It's called 1111.

 

[BSP]

His twitter.

https://twitter.com/Abadangowario

I see, thanks.

Also nice to see that he also thinks Sonic is pretty bad for us.

 

[Nu~]

I see, thanks.

Also nice to see that he also thinks Sonic is pretty bad for us.

Then you have to think about his playstyle. Sonic is tailor made to beat Abadango's campsite.

I wouldn't be surprised if Koolaid didn't have as much trouble with sonic as Abadango.

 

[Galaxian]

We do have a Trampoline Set.

It's called 1111.

You're right there, but really On-Fire Hydrant is a super good custom.

I don't know why you're all negative towards the default trampoline. While I disagree when Abadango said "it should be the only move used", 1112 should have at least been a set. The option should've been available.

We're not sure why Abadango really likes it more but I do agree with him that a 1112 set should've been available.

Now I wish that there were enough custom spaces so that we could have every set combination be a possibility. Then we wouldn't have these arguments.

 

[Nu~]

You're right there, but really On-Fire Hydrant is a super good custom.

I don't know why you're all negative towards the default trampoline. While I disagree when Abadango said "it should be the only move used", 1112 should have at least been a set. The option should've been available.

We're not sure why Abadango really likes it more but I do agree with him that a 1112 set should've been available.

Probably because 1132 does its job better.

why are we arguing about what "could have been" instead of moving forward?

 

[Galaxian]

Probably because 1132 does its job better.

why are we arguing about what "could have been" instead of moving forward?

Yeah, you have a point. Let bygones be bygones.

I haven't tested out the other trampolines so I'm not sure how better they are.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

1112, 1131, 1121 and 2121 where the last sets and I chose for 1121 and 1131.

Last day rushes, Entschuldigung.

 

[Teshie U]

You're right there, but really On-Fire Hydrant is a super good custom.

I don't know why you're all negative towards the default trampoline. While I disagree when Abadango said "it should be the only move used", 1112 should have at least been a set. The option should've been available.

We're not sure why Abadango really likes it more but I do agree with him that a 1112 set should've been available.

Now I wish that there were enough custom spaces so that we could have every set combination be a possibility. Then we wouldn't have these arguments.

I'm with abadango on this, 1112 is my favorite custom set. I think the diversity in default bonus fruit is ideal for stage control, defending your recovery and punishing fast characters.

Meteor trampoline is nice as an attack, but it does sacrifice alot of range. You can't always recover with just power pellet, as its fairly gimpable when intercepted.

 

[Nu~]

I'm with abadango on this, 1112 is my favorite custom set. I think the diversity in default bonus fruit is ideal for stage control, defending your recovery and punishing fast characters.

Meteor trampoline is nice as an attack, but it does sacrifice alot of range. You can't always recover with just power pellet, as its fairly gimpable when intercepted.

Until opponents learn that they can just shield-> press Z for a free fruit.
Bonus fruit aren't necessarily the best fruit for stage control because all of them except for the Galaxian can be stolen off of a power shield. They also don't linger like the custom fruits do.

Lazy fruit and freaky fruit disappear however, giving your opponent no reward for successfully shielding, and allowing you close in. Freaky fruit strawberry and cherry pull the opponent in for kill setups (something we lack and what keeps us from being even better) and lazy fruit deny the opponent a lot of space if you close them in with them. Bonus fruit is more of an all-around fruit, and certainly isn't the best one. They all have different uses for different matchups and playstyles.

Also, meteor trampoline is more than an attack. It's the best trap out of all the trampolines. It severely limits the movement of rush down characters, and gives us a free up smash if they fall into it while red.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

It doesn't get red very often though.

It IS the best Meteor you can wish for, however, making low hitting Fruits like Strawberry deadly.

 

[Teshie U]

Until opponents learn that they can just shield-> press Z for a free fruit.
Bonus fruit aren't necessarily the best fruit for stage control because all of them except for the Galaxian can be stolen off of a power shield. They also don't linger like the custom fruits do.

Lazy fruit and freaky fruit disappear however, giving your opponent no reward for successfully shielding, and allowing you close in. Freaky fruit strawberry and cherry pull the opponent in for kill setups (something we lack and what keeps us from being even better) and lazy fruit deny the opponent a lot of space if you close them in with them. Bonus fruit is more of an all-around fruit, and certainly isn't the best one. They all have different uses for different matchups and playstyles.

Also, meteor trampoline is more than an attack. It's the best trap out of all the trampolines. It severely limits the movement of rush down characters, and gives us a free up smash if they fall into it while red.

I'm sure each one has its merits. But its clear to me that the default is definitely worth having in alot of areas. Including areas where I would want on fire hydrant.

An opponent wise to the matchup would also know how to stop a pellet recovery too, so having all your options would be nice.

 

[Nu~]

I'm sure each one has its merits. But its clear to me that the default is definitely worth having in alot of areas. Including areas where I would want on fire hydrant.

An opponent wise to the matchup would also know how to stop a pellet recovery too, so having all your options would be nice.

Which is why 4 sets are dedicated to the default bonus fruit. It's an amzing special.

I would take power pac jump in a matchup where I know that my pellet recovery can be gimped easily, because it's less gimpable than the default Up B and is a better out of shield option.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Which is why 4 sets are dedicated to the default bonus fruit. It's an amzing special.

I would take power pac jump in a matchup where I know that my pellet recovery can be gimped easily, because it's less gimpable than the default Up B and is a better out of shield option.

A better OoS option?
Landing that thing asks for a punish, because you fly up super high and you are helpless afterwards.

 

[Nu~]

A better OoS option?
Landing that thing asks for a punish, because you fly up super high and you are helpless afterwards.

You could always retreat to the ledge? As long as your opponent doesn't fall super fast like fox, you can land before them because you suffer no hitstun

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You could always retreat to the ledge? As long as your opponent doesn't fall super fast like fox, you can land before them because you suffer no hitstun

And what if the opponent shields?

 

[Nu~]

And what if the opponent shields?

Just like the original UP B, this one ignores shields. The trampoline actually stays around long enough for the opponent to get bounced up during the attack

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Just like the original UP B, this one ignores shields. The trampoline actually stays around long enough for the opponent to get bounced up during the attack

No point in arguing when I forgot THAT.

 

[BSP]

Other thing I'm noticing with meteor trampoline is that unless I'm doing something wrong, it only does 3% when you hit someone when Pac-Man is rising. So as another option to beat shield, it does a good bit less damage...not that 7% was anything to really celebrate over, but it's still something to be aware of.

No point in arguing when I forgot THAT.

Still debatable IMO. As far as OOS goes, PPJ is stronger, but you are much more open if you miss.

 

[Teshie U]

Honestly, I feel like I might get hit for landing regular up B at low to mid percents, so I'm worried about that one big jump. Do the custom ones kill better at all? The default isnt great, but I have killed at 200 with it and its safer than trying to grab someone.

I know its too later for EVO, but we should look into Dire Hydrant, its not in any of the sets, but I think it should see some use.

 

[Galaxian]

Honestly, I feel like I might get hit for landing regular up B at low to mid percents, so I'm worried about that one big jump. Do the custom ones kill better at all? The default isnt great, but I have killed at 200 with it and its safer than trying to grab someone.

I know its too later for EVO, but we should look into Dire Hydrant, its not in any of the sets, but I think it should see some use.

Dire Hydrant is awful. It really is.

It gets rid of Pac-Man's stage control, or a very strong contender of it, for something that doesn't even KO. I'd be less hostile towards it if it was an actual KO move, but it doesn't and it's awful.

PPJ is okay for sniping off the top, and it can lead to some interesting off-the-top KOs, but that's it. It's okay, really.

 

[Nu~]

PPJ is also the safest recovery (especially against villager)
It also combos off of our up air

 

[Galaxian]

It also combos off of our up air

Really? That's interesting, I'll have to keep that in mind next time I use PPJ.

What MUs is it best for anyway (PPJ)? Ones where spikes are kind of a problem or something? Maybe on maps like T&C, where the kill ceiling is low?

 

[Nu~]

Really? That's interesting, I'll have to keep that in mind next time I use PPJ.

What MUs is it best for anyway (PPJ)? Ones where spikes are kind of a problem or something? Maybe on maps like T&C, where the kill ceiling is low?

I use it against villager so he can't steal our trampoline, and characters that die off the top like yoshi and rosa

 

[Galaxian]

I use it against villager so he can't steal our trampoline, and characters that die off the top like yoshi and rosa

Right, Villager can steal trampoline. I forgot about that, I'll make sure to keep that in mind.

That's a good idea, though.

What do you mean by "die off the top" though? Do you mean it's easy for them to get to the blast zone on top?

 

[Nu~]

Right, Villager can steal trampoline. I forgot about that, I'll make sure to keep that in mind.

That's a good idea, though.

What do you mean by "die off the top" though? Do you mean it's easy for them to get to the blast zone on top?

Yeah. Opponents that are floatier die off of the top quicker and those with slower horizontal air speed die horizontally quicker

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Dire Hydrant is a good match-up Hydrant against a character that counters us, can easily launch hydrant, but doesn't have any dangerous comboes we can escape with default.


So it's good for that matchup.
If it existed.

 

[Galaxian]

Dire Hydrant is a good match-up Hydrant against a character that counters us, can easily launch hydrant, but doesn't have any dangerous comboes we can escape with default.


So it's good for that matchup.
If it existed.

If Dire Hydrant was a KO move I'm positive it might get a set. As someone who uses Hydrant a little offensively, Dire Hydrant would've been GREAT for an aggressive Pac-Man set, one looking for fast KOs. 2123, perhaps? Whatever.

If it gets buffed I'll be excited. As it stands, Dire Hydrant is awful, and default or On-Fire are much better choices.

 

[Teshie U]

Dire Hydrant is a good match-up Hydrant against a character that counters us, can easily launch hydrant, but doesn't have any dangerous comboes we can escape with default.


So it's good for that matchup.
If it existed.

I actually had it in mind for villager. The explosion hits below the ledge and I wouldn't want him/her to easily pocket a hydrant sitting idle on the ground.

 

[Nu~]

I actually had it in mind for villager. The explosion hits below the ledge and I wouldn't want him/her to easily pocket a hydrant sitting idle on the ground.

I welcome him to pocket our hydrant. He can't knock it away as quickly as we can, and giving Pac-Man two hydrants to launch with one key is just insane.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I actually had it in mind for villager. The explosion hits below the ledge and I wouldn't want him/her to easily pocket a hydrant sitting idle on the ground.

I don't think Villager needs an entire set dedicated for him.
It's not an as big of an headache as Rosa.

Use Key wisely and think of smart plans around Pocket's limitations and it's a fun match-up for us.

 

[Teshie U]

Unless he is on the ledge.

I'm also not worried about launched hydrants really. But he can definitely lead into dropping it on us with nair, gyroid, jab or edgeguarding. Its like having another bowling ball he can use in the air.

Dire also has some other uses for stalling in the air.

 

[Galaxian]

Unless he is on the ledge.

I'm also not worried about launched hydrants really. But he can definitely lead into dropping it on us with nair, gyroid, jab or edgeguarding. Its like having another bowling ball he can use in the air.

Dire also has some other uses for stalling in the air.

Try to spook him out with Apple off the ledge or something. I agree with the others, one set isn't needed for a character like Villager, even a ADHD-type Villager. Besides, Villager can pocket Dire too and do probably even more damage/KB than a regular hydrant.

Spook him with hydrants, fruits, whatever, ledge trump Bair.

 

[PacMain92201]

Something cool I found out about meteor tramp was that if we ledge trump our opponents, and they decide to regrab the ledge, we can get a free meteor by standing as close as possible to the ledge and then up b'ing. Also, has anyone tested if an offstage footstool can combo into meteor trampoline? If so, then fair->footstool->meteor tramp could be a viable edgeguarding option

 

[Teshie U]

Most fruit hit the balloons and bounce away.

Dire Hydrant is actually the least damaging and weakest hydrant. Its just harder to pocket as well because it doesn't linger. You and toss it at the ledge as its being grabbed and he can't simply pocket a hydrant that sitting idle.

Honestly its also pretty useful against characters that can reflect a launched hydrant easily too.

 

[Nu~]

Something cool I found out about meteor tramp was that if we ledge trump our opponents, and they decide to regrab the ledge, we can get a free meteor by standing as close as possible to the ledge and then up b'ing. Also, has anyone tested if an offstage footstool can combo into meteor trampoline? If so, then fair->footstool->meteor tramp could be a viable edgeguarding option

Meteor tramp hitbox also goes through the stage so stages with lips like FD allow us to spike our opponent if they try to recover along the lips of the stage.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Most fruit hit the balloons and bounce away.

Dire Hydrant is actually the least damaging and weakest hydrant. Its just harder to pocket as well because it doesn't linger. You and toss it at the ledge as its being grabbed and he can't simply pocket a hydrant that sitting idle.

Honestly its also pretty useful against characters that can reflect a launched hydrant easily too.

I think the solution to that is to not launch the Hydrant instead of picking the inferior version.

 

[Nu~]

There's so much more to the hydrant than just mindlessly launching it