Social Pac IS Back! - Pac-Man Discussion Thread

AreJay25

May or May Not Be Pac-Man
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#1
Pac-Man, the king of the arcades, was the second 3rd party newcomer in Smash 4. With his unorthodox trap based playstyle, as well as the amount of references to a variety of Namco properties new and old, Pac-Man was a fantastic addition to the roster of Smash. Seeing him in the same game with the likes of Mario, Sonic and Mega Man was certainly a sight to behold.

With the announcement of Smash Switch, there is some mystery regarding Namco's involvement in the game's development - and whether or not Pac-Man will return to battle.

Will he receive any updates to his moveset? Will he become a champion(ship edition) on the tier list? Will his grab still suck? Feel free to discuss anything regarding the character in this thread.
 
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#5
Praying he comes back, as much as I’d love to see his moveset replaces with a PMW themed one though... I don’t see it happening.


I NEED Klonoa to go alongside him at least though in terms of secondaries, especially after we got Ryu and Bayonetta.
 

FunAtParties

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#7
Pac is the hypest character in Smash 4, and I'd be really upset if he got cut. He needs to come back. With a new pac game coming to Switch, I see no reason to cut him.

Seriously Sakurai, bring him back.

The only change I wanna see is for star KOs I want that iconic hit by a ghost animation and noise he has in his games. You know, this noise
https://youtu.be/wT-8Dm1VThc
 
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#10
Pac is the hypest character in Smash 4, and I'd be really upset if he got cut. He needs to come back. With a new pac game coming to Switch, I see no reason to cut him.

Seriously Sakurai, bring him back.

The only change I wanna see is for star KOs I want that iconic hit by a ghost animation and noise he has in his games. You know, this noise
https://youtu.be/wT-8Dm1VThc
That always bothered the HECK out of me—like how do you miss out on such an obvious opportunity to use that noise?
 
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#11
Pac is the hypest character in Smash 4, and I'd be really upset if he got cut. He needs to come back. With a new pac game coming to Switch, I see no reason to cut him.

Seriously Sakurai, bring him back.

The only change I wanna see is for star KOs I want that iconic hit by a ghost animation and noise he has in his games. You know, this noise
https://youtu.be/wT-8Dm1VThc
You're right. How could he, in his right mind, not use that for the Star KO scream?
 

Pacack

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#12
Some wishlist changes as a hardcore Pac-Man fan:

Give Pac-Man recolors with hats or something. It could reference a bunch of old Namco games and whatnot.










Give Pac-Man the ability to knock the hydrant away with one hit while also having a move like the current bair that gets it down to low health so it can be messed with.

Make the grabboxes on Pac-Man's grab stay out when the tractor is visible.

Please give him his World style butt bounce as his down air.
 

Almand

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#13
Ideal for me:

-Make his grab actually have a use. Make Down Throw kill, Forward Throw combo, whatever, make the grab-box grow with the beam instead of having 3 short bursts of activity, adjust all 3 so you can't easy Falcon Punch to punish on reaction, etc.
-Make Dair useful. Give it a much lower FAF so it can combo (it's actually a very fast move and has a good angle, but it lasts a full second to act again), make it spike, or just change it entirely.
-Base hydrant's health on shield damage (multiplied by 1.19) rather than regular damage. That means Bair can automatically launch hydrant (deals 14.042 SD), but something like Nair would leave it with just 1.1% more to launch (Deals 11.9 SD).
-Buff Bair. Give it less landing lag or more knockback. 22 frames of landing lag (Same as Ganon's Fair) and killing Jiggs at 135% from Center FD (No rage and no DI) is just ridiculous, not to mention that it's frame 9. ZSS, on the other hand, has an 11 frame landing lag, frame 6 Bair that can kill Jiggs at 110%.
-Give him better access to combos. He doesn't really have combos, just strings. His Up Air is too slow to juggle, he has no combo throws or tilts, and the most damaging he gets is with Z-Drop Key or Galaxian stuff, both of which are very easy to dodge or even use against him. He can Fairplane, but only on airborne opponents at very specific percentages, and Fair can link into Key, but only sometimes, with the right character and wrong DI.
-Give Cherry and Strawberry a use. Make Cherry Lock, or make Strawberry very weakly spike.

End rant.
 

Pacack

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#14
Ideal for me:

-Make his grab actually have a use. Make Down Throw kill, Forward Throw combo, whatever, make the grab-box grow with the beam instead of having 3 short bursts of activity, adjust all 3 so you can't easy Falcon Punch to punish on reaction, etc.
-Make Dair useful. Give it a much lower FAF so it can combo (it's actually a very fast move and has a good angle, but it lasts a full second to act again), make it spike, or just change it entirely.
-Base hydrant's health on shield damage (multiplied by 1.19) rather than regular damage. That means Bair can automatically launch hydrant (deals 14.042 SD), but something like Nair would leave it with just 1.1% more to launch (Deals 11.9 SD).
-Buff Bair. Give it less landing lag or more knockback. 22 frames of landing lag (Same as Ganon's Fair) and killing Jiggs at 135% from Center FD (No rage and no DI) is just ridiculous, not to mention that it's frame 9. ZSS, on the other hand, has an 11 frame landing lag, frame 6 Bair that can kill Jiggs at 110%.
-Give him better access to combos. He doesn't really have combos, just strings. His Up Air is too slow to juggle, he has no combo throws or tilts, and the most damaging he gets is with Z-Drop Key or Galaxian stuff, both of which are very easy to dodge or even use against him. He can Fairplane, but only on airborne opponents at very specific percentages, and Fair can link into Key, but only sometimes, with the right character and wrong DI.
-Give Cherry and Strawberry a use. Make Cherry Lock, or make Strawberry very weakly spike.

End rant.
Preach!
 

Mr. Pacman

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#15
To be honest i think he's pretty much gonna be in. The only reason i'd see him not returning is if Nintendo and Namco had issues with eachother but we know that didn't happen. Other than that Sakurai has no excuse not to bring him back. He was unique with a great moveset. Let's bring Pac back.
 

Almand

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#18
Update: He has an actual grab, and his F-Smash seems to be much faster to start up!!!!

He also has a different Up Tilt, his Down Tilt sends him back to where he started (rather than pushing him forward a little), and fruits charge SO FAST!!! But his Dair still sends upward instead of spiking. But it seems to have barely any landing lag, so maybe it'll be a combo tool!

One other thing I noticed is that his air mobility is crazy after using Up B. One of the trailers shows it, he moves left after using a Grounded Trampoline, and he just zooms into max speed immediately. So maybe his recovery is even better, I dunno.

I'm just holding out hope that his Bair is buffed. Or Key. He just needs a good kill option.

Oh, also, one thing that doesn't really matter: in the Great Plateau Tower reveal scene, Pac-Man's Up B doesn't have the little Classic Pac Trail thingy seen in actual Pac-Man play. So they're clearly adjusting him. Who's to say they won't buff him further, or even change other characters a little?
 
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IsmaR

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#20
Thank God.

RIP better alts, though.
We don't know for sure yet since not everything was in the demo build (Ridley didn't have his Meta Ridley costume from his trailer available).

I want to believe.
 

Almand

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#22
Update: Found some loose frame data! Check the Pac-Man Ultimate Character thread, "What's Changed about Pac-Man?"

Take it with a grain of salt, but apparently he's been buffed massively in landing lag! Bair has only 14 FRAMES of lag, and Nair has 8!
 

Almand

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#27
Does anybody here know how much damage PAC-MAN's up-tilt in Smash Ultimate does?
Fresh in a 1v1, it deals 6.8%, which can be seen at 1:35 in this video. That was with the fist, too, which would presumably be the sweetspot, but who knows? Up Tilt did 7% in Smash 4, so this is a very, very slight downgrade.

This question made me wonder, though, how much damage do his other attacks deal? Check my thread, "What's Changed About Pac-Man?" for that answer. Sorry to clickbait you guys, sorta, but I think it's just better to have my loose frame data with damage.
 

Almand

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#32
I believe it's in Pac-Man's video on the smashbros website.
One with damage, I mean. It's on Pac's gameplay trailer, but it only shows the attack, not the damage it deals. I have found the same clip from that same video I originally used: it's from a Pac-Man analysis, so all kudos go to Amalga. In any case, here it is, Ryu goes from 168.7% to 175.5%, which means Up Tilt deals 6.8%. That's Fresh, however. Dividing by 1.05, we get that Up Tilt has a base damage value of 6.5%, a very slight nerf from Sm4sh's 7%. Up Tilt in general seems like it'll be a better anti-air and combo tool, though (as you can see, Ryu barely went anywhere from the attack, so it might have combos up until high percents), but only time will tell. Like I said before, nobody seems to use Up Tilt, just like Down Air.
 
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#33
The lack of Pac-Man World material is still annoying me, Probably more than ever. It really miffs me that people don't seem to understand that the trilogy is why a majority of actual Pac supporters wanted the character in Smash Bros to begin with. These days Pac-Man's franchise outside of Smash has been nothing more than nostalgia pandering... (I'm honestly sick of the traditional black and blue neon aesthetic and constant remakes and remixes of the 1980's original ala the CE games.)

I'm also worried about Namco shoving Tales down my throat futher just considering they don't really seem to care about who USED to actually be their flagship franchise and mascot anymore aside from banking off nostalgia and the fact he's a pop culture icon. I'm still holding out hoping the increased number of music tracks means we'll get at least one song from the trilogy, But I'm really doubting it.

I remember back in the Smash 4 subforum here somebody said the World trilogy was JUST as important as his arcade outings. I wholeheartedly agree as the games are what made Pac-Man a relevant name again during the early 2000's. Of the likes of Mega Man and Crash Bandicoot, He was a well respected third party mascot with plenty of stuff up his sleeve, Pleasing fans both old and new.

The fact Namco has ignored the trilogy's existance for the longest time since they were pushing GA and tarnishing his public image really doesn't help... Although their offical social media accounts has started to acknowledge the games as of recently and have constantly been reusing renders from the specific era.
 
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#35
At least we have his Up-Air as the kick...
That doesn't even feel intentional though...

Mario has a more accurate animation that resembles PMW2's Flip-Kick. It doesn't make sense why they would pick that considering it was underutilized in the game it was introduced in.
 
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#36
Pac-Man has always been more well-known for his presence in the arcade and the maze-style games, so that's the primary inspiration for his Smash Bros. portrayal. That's just how the cookie crumbles when the original Pac-Man managed to leave the sort of impact it did at the time that it did. There are fans of the Pac-Man World games, but that series didn't manage to leave the kind of lasting influence on the game industry as a whole that the more traditional Pac-Man games have.

Personally, I just wish that there was more diversity in Pac-Man content in general. There were only three music tracks from actual Pac-Man games in Smash 4, with the rest being 80s Namco arcade medleys. Where's all the bumping music from the Championship games? What about Pac Attack? Pac Pix? Pac N Roll? And yes, Pac-Man World as well. Especially Pac-Man World 1. That game had a surprisingly good soundtrack. Based on the brief glimpse of the sound test menu we have from the August Direct, it looks like the Pac-Man series has 13 music tracks in Ultimate. Since the Galaga medley seems to count as "Other", hopefully that means there are 10 new Pac-Man-specific tunes in the game.
 
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#37
I get the original outing is iconic, But you can’t just take material from that alone. The choice to represent Pac-Land over World was controversial enough considering it’s far more of an obscure game.

Not to mention characters like Sonic and Mega Man, despite taking a good chunk of inspiration from their haydays, They still gave the rest of their outings plenty of appreciation and representation. Sonic has the Homing Attack, Mega Man uses stuff from 7 and 8. (Which were contested by the fandom for not being 8-bit.)

You can make up excuses all you want, But I’m severely dissatisfied they didn’t improve his representation. I accepted it during Smash 4 as the reboot was tainting his public image, But I really expected them to improve with Ultimate.

There is much more to Pac-Man than just the original 1980’s game and Championship Edition. Iconic or not, It feels unfair compared to Sonic and Mega Man’s treatment.
 
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#38
Am I allowed to post here again? I remember seeing Pac-Man's music tracks had increased over time a while back. I'm praying that we can at least get songs from the World trilogy and that it's not just music from the more nostalgia-catering/based games like CE and CEDX.

Nevermind rave music wouldn't fit Pac-Land. lmao
 

Wario Wario Wario

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#39
I actually prefer Pac-Man's SSB representation, based on the arcade games, over the idea of World-based representation. I really like Pac-Man World 1 (the sequels are OK, but not as good), but honestly I can't really see what moves you'd draw from them. the side-B is basically a World reference in a retro coat of paint, but other than that all he really does in those games are the flip kick (which he does use), the dot throw (which would just be a more boring version of Bonus Fruit), the Rev-Roll (which isn't that interesting IMO, we have enough Spin-Dashes as is.) and the butt-bounce (which honestly would be a good down air, similar to PM Wario's down air)

I do agree that there is more to Pac than wakka-wakka and fruit, but there isn't THAT much. the best way to get World representation IMO is some music and MAYBE a Toc-Man echo.
 
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