Guide Pac Attack - Advanced Techniques and Strategy Guide

[Nu~]

I would say yes, but unlike Metal blade, outside of cherry, everything else would launch too far for some of these to work. It would be great for Bell setups though.

I'll test every fruit. I know that most of these will work at low percentages.
Especially the Galaxian and bell

Custom fruit are probably even better for this

 

[fromundaman]

Isn't it funny how we can use most of mega man's Z drop techs better than him?
Imagine the stupid combos and kill confirms with this

This is old Brawl tech,. I messed with it for a bit, but TBH I don't find it super useful for us since we can't regret a up/down thrown fruit.

Still, it has uses on platform stages.

 

[Nu~]

This is old Brawl tech,. I messed with it for a bit, but TBH I don't find it super useful for us since we can't regret a up/down thrown fruit.

Still, it has uses on platform stages.

That's why we gotta set it up with z drops
Z dropped bell->forward thrown bell is deadly though

 

[fromundaman]

Isn't it funny how we can use most of mega man's Z drop techs better than him?
Imagine the stupid combos and kill confirms with this

This is old Brawl tech,. I messed with it for a bit, but TBH I don't find it super useful for us since we can't regret a up/down thrown fruit.

Still, it has uses on platform stages.

That's why we gotta set it up with z drops
Z dropped bell->forward thrown bell is deadly though

Does that combo?

Honestly the only way I occasionally used it so far was off of a gushed Z-drop.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Freaky fruit is the best, you can use the melon as the key, and it is easier to recover. I'm going to play a tournament this weekend and I trained the freaky fruit. You can follow us on : http://www.twitch.tv/smashbrosspain/

 

[Nu~]

Freaky fruit is the best, you can use the melon as the key, and it is easier to recover. I'm going to play a tournament this weekend and I trained the freaky fruit. You can follow us on : http://www.twitch.tv/smashbrosspain/

Yess!! More people on the freaky train

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Yess!! More people on the freaky train

ALL ABOARD!
NEXT STOP MY THREAD!
CHOO CHOO!

 

[Nu~]

@ fromundaman
@ WeirdChillFever
@ BSP
@Pacack
@Firedemon0
@ PEPESPAIN
@Spirst
@Galaxian
@NimbusSpark
@DrakeRowan
@ D dragontamer
@Reaper Talk
@ AGES
@CostLow

So I've tested the insta toss and here are my results!!!

Tested on ROB

key drop-> key toss-> fair -> Nair (45%!!)

Cherry drop-> Cherry toss-> usmash (25%!)

Cherry drop-> Cherry toss-> Uair-> ftilt
(24%!)

Strawberry drop-> Strawberry toss-> Usmash
(29%!)

Strawberry drop-> Strawberry toss-> Ftilt (20%)

Strawberry drop-> Strawberry toss-> Fair-> Ftilt (Strict timing 25%)

Strawberry drop-> Strawberry toss-> Uair-> Jabx3 (31%)

Orange drop-> Orange toss
(16%. mid percentages or jump a bit higher when you perform this at low percentages) if they don't tech, follow up with a side

Apple drop-> Apple toss-> Uair
(28%. Only at low percentages)

Melon drop-> Melon toss-> Fair
(29%. low to low mid percentages)

Galaxian drop-> Galaxian toss-> Fair
(28%. low percentages)

Galaxian drop -> toss-> fair (sometimes misses but the combo still continues due to Galaxian hitstun) -> Galaxian hits+Nair lands
(36%-41%. Mid to high mid percentages)

Galaxian drop->toss-> draw your Side B as the Galaxian comes around-> Galaxian hits + Side B lands
(39%. Mid to high mid percentages
EASY KILL CONFIRM!!!)

Bell drop-> Toss-> Anything
(%Varies Mid to High percentages. Works only if the opponent doesn't jump or tech. Decent mixup that can become a gimmicky kill confirm. Why the hell does a z drop bell have to have horizontal knock back lol)


This. Is. BIG!!!

Try to put together your own combos. I'm going to test Lazy/Freaky fruit next. I have a feeling that lazy Galaxian and freaky bell will give me crazy results.

 

[BSP]

@ fromundaman
@ WeirdChillFever
@ BSP
@Pacack
@Firedemon0
@ PEPESPAIN
@Galaxian
@NimbusSpark

So I've tested the insta toss and here are my results!!!

Tested on ROB

key drop-> key toss-> fair -> Nair (45%!!)

Cherry drop-> Cherry toss-> usmash (25%!)

Cherry drop-> Cherry toss-> Uair-> ftilt
(24%!)

Strawberry drop-> Strawberry toss-> Usmash
(29%!)

Strawberry drop-> Strawberry toss-> Ftilt (20%)

Strawberry drop-> Strawberry toss-> Fair-> Ftilt (Strict timing 25%)

Strawberry drop-> Strawberry toss-> Uair-> Jabx3 (31%)

Orange drop-> Orange toss
(16%. mid percentages or jump a bit higher when you perform this at low percentages) if they don't tech, follow up with a side

Apple drop-> Apple toss-> Uair
(28%. Only at low percentages)

Melon drop-> Melon toss-> Fair
(29%. low to low mid percentages)

Galaxian drop-> Galaxian toss-> Fair
(28%. low percentages)

Galaxian drop -> toss-> fair (sometimes misses but the combo still continues due to Galaxian hitstun) -> Galaxian hits+Nair lands
(36%-41%. Mid to high mid percentages)

Galaxian drop->toss-> draw your Side B as the Galaxian comes around-> Galaxian hits + Side B lands
(39%. Mid to high mid percentages
EASY KILL CONFIRM!!!)

Bell drop-> Toss-> Anything
(%Varies Mid to High percentages. Works only if the opponent doesn't jump or tech. Decent mixup that can become a gimmicky kill confirm. Why the hell does a z drop bell have to have horizontal knock back lol)


This. Is. BIG!!!

Try to put together your own combos. I'm going to test Lazy/Freaky fruit next. I have a feeling that lazy Galaxian and freaky bell will give me crazy results.

How are you dropping? Short hopping into ROB or dropping from a full hop?

Did you try foot stool after the instant toss? If you can footstool, throw in hydrant --> bair for a quick 21%

Otherwise, nice finds.

 

[Nu~]

How are you dropping? Short hopping into ROB or dropping from a full hop?

Did you try foot stool after the instant toss? If you can footstool, throw in hydrant --> bair for a quick 21%

Otherwise, nice finds.

Short hopping. The only one that requires a full hop was the Orange. You need a higher toss for that.

Thanks man! I'll try the footstool with the lower knockback fruit.

 

[fromundaman]

I know the FS works with cherry and strawberry off of a Z-drop. Not sure about off of the insta-toss.

Great finds by the way! Are the first couple done at 0%?

 

[Nu~]

I know the FS works with cherry and strawberry off of a Z-drop. Not sure about off of the insta-toss.

Great finds by the way! Are the first couple done at 0%?

Yeah. Definitely won't have a key combo working at 50% lol

The cherry and strawberry have low enough knock back to work for a little while longer though.

 

[bekindrewind]

This insta-toss may help us A LOT for kill power. Especially with the bell, because z-drop into stun is guaranteed, and I even tested it at high percents (~100-110) and connected with Inky.

 

[Nu~]

This insta-toss may help us A LOT for kill power. Especially with the bell, because z-drop into stun is guaranteed, and I even tested it at high percents (~100-110) and connected with Inky.

Really? They stay in hit stun that long?
Whenever I tried it, the bell's horizontal knock back would push the opponent away, and then the bell would land on them. I'm not sure if it's guaranteed however

So far, the only guaranteed kill confirms I have found were with the galaxian

Edit:
Just realized how many more combos we can get out of this with Perfect Pivoting. Our PP fsmash has very good range.

 

[bekindrewind]

Really? They stay in hit stun that long?
Whenever I tried it, the bell's horizontal knock back would push the opponent away, and then the bell would land on them. I'm not sure if it's guaranteed however

So far, the only guaranteed kill confirms I have found were with the galaxian

Edit:
Just realized how many more combos we can get out of this with Perfect Pivoting. Our PP fsmash has very good range.

If you get the zdropped connected you can immediately toss the bell for stun. in training the combo came up as 2, so if done right they can't avoid it.

 

[Nu~]

If you get the zdropped connected you can immediately toss the bell for stun. in training the combo came up as 2, so if done right they can't avoid it.

Ah. Guess my fingers were slow lol

 

[dragontamer]

@ Nu~ : Good work. I'll give this a try next time I sit down for a practice session.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Wait.

Maybe if you Insta-Throw the Freaky Melon you can make a semi-kill confirm.

 

[Nu~]

Wait.

Maybe if you Insta-Throw the Freaky Melon you can make a semi-kill confirm.

Confirmed. Just did it
Freaky Melon drop -> Freaky Melon toss = death at higher percentages


Freaky key drop -> Freaky key toss-> anything (%varies. Can be done only at lower percentages)

Insta toss freaky Key -> usmash (37% at mid percentages when all hits can connect,
34% at high percentages when only inky connects)
Another Kill confirm and another reason to chose freaky fruit

Insta Toss freaky bell = death at high percentages

Insta toss Freaky strawberry -> anything
(Pulls the opponent in for a punish. Only works at high percentages, which helps because this is yet another solid kill confirm. You have to slow this one down a little bit. Wait just a little while longer to Insta toss the fruit after the z drop)

Every other freaky fruit is near useless with this. Nothing else has a follow up or kills when comboed into itself.

 

[fromundaman]

I don't play with customs anyway , but out of curiosity how did you regrab freaky key?

 

[Nu~]

I don't play with customs anyway , but out of curiosity how did you regrab freaky key?

Burning yourself with the on fire hydrant. The fruit will drop, and you can pick it up. You can get any fruit this way. It's funny how hurting ourselves can actually help us, when many thought that self harm was a major flaw in the on fire hydrant's design.


---------------------------------
Now I'm on to lazy fruit
Time to call the gang again:

@ BSP
@Pacack
@Firedemon0
@ PEPESPAIN
@Spirst
@Galaxian
@NimbusSpark
@DrakeRowan
@ D dragontamer
@Reaper Talk
@ AGES
@CostLow

Tested on mega man

Low to mid percentages
Insta toss lazy strawberry -> Dash attack -> Uair
(29% )
Can also be performed with lazy cherry

Lazy cherry Insta toss -> ftilt
(12%)

Insta toss lazy strawberry -> fair-> nair
(25%)

Insta toss Lazy melon-> Fair
(29%)

Insta toss Lazy Apple -> fair-> Nair
(33% strict timing)

Insta toss Lazy Apple -> Uair
(28%)

Insta toss lazy Bell -> footstool -> three Fairs -> Any hard punish you want
(Kill confirms for dayz)

Insta toss Lazy orange -> usmash
(25%)

Any percentage
Insta toss lazy Galaxian (let it bounce twice) -> Go insane!!!
(Okay, this can lead to stupid high damage, kill confirms, footstool combos, you name it. Just get creative!)

Z drop lazy orange -> Bair
Not an insta toss, but a combo I found while trying to perform the previous combo. Works at any percent (yes, even 999%) because of the orange's weird hitstun. Makes me want to explore the lazy Orange more. There may be tons of possibilities.

 

[fromundaman]

Interesting.Thanks for the info.

Speaking of taking damage to drop items, are any of you charging to the very end of the bell charge then pressing B to finish the key charge in front of low hitstun projectiles (Fireballs, tip of fire breath, Falco lasers, thunderjolts, TL uncharged arrows, etc.) to regrab key? It's pretty effective, especially at low percents.

 

[Nu~]

Interesting.Thanks for the info.

Speaking of taking damage to drop items, are any of you charging to the very end of the bell charge then pressing B to finish the key charge in front of low hitstun projectiles (Fireballs, tip of fire breath, Falco lasers, thunderjolts, TL uncharged arrows, etc.) to regrab key? It's pretty effective, especially at low percents.

Yep. I do this to mega man all the time.

It makes the opponent a bit more weary about shooting things so liberally

 

[bekindrewind]

Something I thought was interesting during analyzation of fighting Mario was it looked like hitting the Power Pellet with his Up B shortens its distance. I don't know Mario as in-depth as PAC-MAN, but it'd be a really interesting factoid to know.

Also, I know that this works with Ness' recovery, which is also a really good tactic of edgegaurding him easy.

 

[Nu~]

Something I thought was interesting during analyzation of fighting Mario was it looked like hitting the Power Pellet with his Up B shortens its distance. I don't know Mario as in-depth as PAC-MAN, but it'd be a really interesting factoid to know.

Also, I know that this works with Ness' recovery, which is also a really good tactic of edgegaurding him easy.

Do it to charizard's flare blitz, Luigi's missile, and Ike's quick draw while they all try to recover horizontally.

They all cry, and we sip the salty tears.

 

[bekindrewind]

Do it to charizard's flare blitz, Luigi's missile, and Ike's quick draw while they all try to recover horizontally.

They all cry, and we sip the salty tears.

I can see Distant Power Pellet having some potential to be usable, now.

 

[Nu~]

I can see Distant Power Pellet having some potential to be usable, now.

If we actually had trouble against any of those characters lol.
With Luigi's poor aerial movement and reliance on grabs, the trampoline alone makes his life miserable.

Charizard's nuetral is pretty bad and is focused around punishing. Good thing we have tons of low commitment tools to keep him at bay. If you are having trouble killing him, just get creative (or run the time out)

Ike has a lot of trouble being zoned out. Orange makes his recovery hard enough as it is.

 

[bekindrewind]

If we actually had trouble against any of those characters lol.
With Luigi's poor aerial movement and reliance on grabs, the trampoline alone makes his life miserable.

Charizard's nuetral is pretty bad and is focused around punishing. Good thing we have tons of low commitment tools to keep him at bay. If you are having trouble killing him, just get creative (or run the time out)

Ike has a lot of trouble being zoned out. Orange makes his recovery hard enough as it is.

Nothing wrong with having more options, just saying.

 

[Nu~]

Nothing wrong with having more options, just saying.

It just seemed like a lot to throw away for one trick. In the grand scheme of things, it cuts options to make one option a tad bit stronger.

If we could somehow switch mid match, than maybe. But we lose a faster recovery, a kill move when combined with the galaxian, and a strong roll punisher.
No hate, man. It was a lighthearted response tbh.

 

[StabbityJoe]

When launching the hydrant I forward smash so I hit the hydrant and the opponent and the hydrant hits the opponent for twice as much damage.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

When launching the hydrant I forward smash so I hit the hydrant and the opponent and the hydrant hits the opponent for twice as much damage.

I once broke a shield with that.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Burning yourself with the on fire hydrant. The fruit will drop, and you can pick it up. You can get any fruit this way. It's funny how hurting ourselves can actually help us, when many thought that self harm was a major flaw in the on fire hydrant's design.


---------------------------------
Now I'm on to lazy fruit
Time to call the gang again:

@ BSP
@Pacack
@Firedemon0
@ PEPESPAIN
@Spirst
@Galaxian
@NimbusSpark
@DrakeRowan
@ D dragontamer
@Reaper Talk
@ AGES
@CostLow

Tested on mega man

Low to mid percentages
Insta toss lazy strawberry -> Dash attack -> Uair
(29% )
Can also be performed with lazy cherry

Lazy cherry Insta toss -> ftilt
(12%)

Insta toss lazy strawberry -> fair-> nair
(25%)

Insta toss Lazy melon-> Fair
(29%)

Insta toss Lazy Apple -> fair-> Nair
(33% strict timing)

Insta toss Lazy Apple -> Uair
(28%)

Insta toss lazy Bell -> footstool -> three Fairs -> Any hard punish you want
(Kill confirms for dayz)

Insta toss Lazy orange -> usmash
(25%)

Any percentage
Insta toss lazy Galaxian (let it bounce twice) -> Go insane!!!
(Okay, this can lead to stupid high damage, kill confirms, footstool combos, you name it. Just get creative!)

Z drop lazy orange -> Bair
Not an insta toss, but a combo I found while trying to perform the previous combo. Works at any percent (yes, even 999%) because of the orange's weird hitstun. Makes me want to explore the lazy Orange more. There may be tons of possibilities.

Man I'm not sure how do you test it. What do you exactly do? Can you send me a replay from this to understant it? My NNID is PEPESPAIN, I don't need a real match, just an example...

 

[fromundaman]

Man I'm not sure how do you test it. What do you exactly do? Can you send me a replay from this to understant it? My NNID is PEPESPAIN, I don't need a real match, just an example...

I can't record it atm, but basically you grab it with Z, then immediately press A when you grab it to instantly rethrow it. In theory, the Z-drop combos into the instant toss which combos into whatever else is written down in these lists.


________________


On a side note, found a few interesting things today, though both are super situational:

-When in front of a hydrant at percents where both galaga hits combo into each other, you can toss the galaga, then while pushed by the water combo into a Usmash. This is spacing, timing and percent dependent, but still good to know as it will true combo and isn't too hard to set up since all 3 categories are fairly lenient.



-When you have an apple in hand, you can place a hydrant then run off of it then either
*DJ up throw the apple then fast fall
OR
*Fast fall and glide toss the apple upwards

Both of these will get hit by the water and will cover different angles (Not sure what the DACIT version will do as I can't perform that on 3DS).

The important thing though is that both of those will combo on hit or block if you DA at the opponent immediately after reaching the ground. Since DA has no end lag, that means that this is an option select kill confirm setup that if blocked allows you to continue pressure (Not sure how much block stun apple has, but you may even be able to break shields with Fsmash or something if they block it all).

Now you may want to point out that we can get grabbed out of DA in between the hits. Why yes, that is true, but with the apple right behind, it will punish them for grabbing you unless maybe if it's something like Kirby Uthrow that takes us off screen.

While situational as it depends on spacing and having an apple in hand; this is a powerful setup.

 

[StabbityJoe]

I once broke a shield with that.

Yeah its a pretty powerful of you can hit it.

 

[Zekkaran]

kinda found a combo. Its not really much of a combo because it can be tech out of, but ,

what you can do is a Down throw to a shorthop Forward air. If they miss the tech, it'll lock them up then you can follow it up with a another attack. like what i did for more damage in a match i played was while the opponent was standing up after the lock i threw a bell and did 2 f-airs and a jab.

Preferred Damage

For Lightweights %20 (does not work against jigglypuff)

Middleweights %25 - %30

Heavyweights %30

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

https://youtu.be/ZAeADNmt05U

I stumbled upon this video on Youtube and thought I should share it here. This guy came up with some ridiculous set-ups, which I will now promptly steal for myself.

 

[fromundaman]

Man, while I knew some of those, some are new to me and I will be stealing them. That beta turbo thing with the melon is hella dirty. Pretty sure melon has enough block stun to make us safe even if they block.

Also even in some of the setups I did know, he found better ways to set them up. Kudos to that guy, and thank you for sharing that.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Man, while I knew some of those, some are new to me and I will be stealing them. That beta turbo thing with the melon is hella dirty. Pretty sure melon has enough block stun to make us safe even if they block.

Also even in some of the setups I did know, he found better ways to set them up. Kudos to that guy, and thank you for sharing that.

The thing that really makes me excited is the fact that even with the amount of people actively trying to find new tech, there's still so much more to find and experiment with Pac-Man.

 

[fromundaman]

Agreed 100%. It feels like this character will never run out of tech!

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Agreed 100%. It feels like this character will never run out of tech!

Now if only we could find an easier way to secure a KO.