Guide Pac Attack - Advanced Techniques and Strategy Guide

[InfinityAlex]

Down throw>Key is almost guaranteed at low percents, and even some high ones depending on character weights and DI ability of your opponent. Dash attack>Trampoline works, as does Hydrant Drop>Bair, depending on positioning.

 

[fromundaman]

So, been busy and hadn't stepped into the lab for a while. Finally rectified that and found something interesting:

When pushed by the water, if you throw a fruit near the end of the water's push, your fruit go MUCH faster and farther (Melon thrown this way goes to slightly faster than a normal orange for example), and bell/Galaga get slightly different arcs as well.

I'm not yet sure how practical this will be to set up, but it's definitely interesting.

Bell, Melon and Apple seem to be the most useful fruits to use this with. Orange is also pretty good for the sheer speed of it, but that speed is also likely to make it miss.

 

[Revibe]

I'm not sure if it is on record, but I want to point out that Pac can lead into a K.O. near early percents at edges. Basically, starting around 60%, if you grab the opponent right next to the ledge, where if they break free and slide back off the edge after a good bashing, their immediate reaction is to jump back, but you can get a Fsmash in for the k.o. O.k. Let me try to clear that up.

Grab near ledge 60%, bash bash bash bash bash bash, break, F-smash, k.o.

Also, I played a C. Falcon main on 'For Glory' who swapped to Pac after I beat him at a round, but I was bested by him and his Simpler Pac-Man. I learned the hard way I was trying to hard for combo's or something. The Pac strategy they used was mostly just keep distance, always throw keys, and don't chase to land the smash attacks, let them come to you.

I swear my Pac-man game was never better after I took note. I was less 'show-boaty' and more Link haha. But dang, I know keys take time, but they are so good for sniping in the air. I use my other fruit more than that one player because distance juggling is fun, and mixes things up so you can't be 'predictable' (cough link hehe).

It is starting to click with me where Pac-Mans attack strategy Priorities are, since pac-man's other moves don't have as much speed or power when used, (you know that ending or start up frame/lag.)

 

[Nu~]

Anyone else implementing this in their game play?

 

[BSP]

Anyone else implementing this in their game play?

How far do we slide with that?

 

[Nu~]

How far do we slide with that?

I have to test it. I know I'll definitely utilize this if we go far with it. This can lead into kill confirms with the cherry/other low knockback fruits (especially freaky cherry/strawberry)

@ BSP
Edit:Just tested it

We go almost a half of FD. Our fruit bounces on top of us after the toss, so this can be a great approach option.

Dash grab canceled Glide toss -> trampoline

Or if they get hit, the hitstun can set them up for smash attack.

Ooo, this will help us a lot

 

[Phampy]

Dang just tried it out. I can't do the super glide toss with cstick set to attacks/tilt. That's a shame. Don't know if I want to reconfigure my controls for that technique. Tried doing it by inputting up smash manually but that wasn't a go either. Maybe I'll experiment a bit more in the future with it.

 

[Pacack]

Dang just tried it out. I can't do the super glide toss with cstick set to attacks/tilt. That's a shame. Don't know if I want to reconfigure my controls for that technique. Tried doing it by inputting up smash manually but that wasn't a go either. Maybe I'll experiment a bit more in the future with it.

According to this, Pac-Man can, but it's not as noticeable as it is with Mega Man: https://twitter.com/thatdude433/status/590406437391769600

 

[Phampy]

According to this, Pac-Man can, but it's not as noticeable as it is with Mega Man: https://twitter.com/thatdude433/status/590406437391769600

I know he can. His distance is about a quarter of FD's length from what I saw when I had c-stick set to smash. But I play with c-stick set to tilts and it doesn't seem to work with that.

 

[fromundaman]

No you can definitely do it with cstick set to tilts as I play with that too. That said it is hard to do and I haven't managed to throw fruits forward this way yet.

 

[bekindrewind]

Don't know if anybody else has figured this out, but there is a guaranteed way to make the hydrant shoot the water vertically both squirts. Simply place a trampoline right above it and it will squirt vertically twice. This can help fruit gushing become an anti air game if it gets developed further.

 

[fromundaman]

Don't know if anybody else has figured this out, but there is a guaranteed way to make the hydrant shoot the water vertically both squirts. Simply place a trampoline right above it and it will squirt vertically twice. This can help fruit gushing become an anti air game if it gets developed further.

Thank you so much! This is definitely a big deal (At least for me). This is a great way to set up super delayed hydrants.

 

[bekindrewind]

Thank you so much! This is definitely a big deal (At least for me). This is a great way to set up super delayed hydrants.

Only thing I discovered- you have to be a certain distance away from the hydrant for it to squirt vertically. If you're too close after you jump off the trampoline, the water will recognize you and squirt sideways (the hydrant identifies the trampoline as a fighter, so it squirts vertically because it is the closest "fighter" in its range)

 

[Nu~]

Don't know if anybody else has figured this out, but there is a guaranteed way to make the hydrant shoot the water vertically both squirts. Simply place a trampoline right above it and it will squirt vertically twice. This can help fruit gushing become an anti air game if it gets developed further.

Yeah, I use this to cover aerial approaches. The bell works magically with this. If you use meteor trampoline, the hitbox will damage the hydrant enough for you to hit it away in one ftilt.

 

[bekindrewind]

You can deliberately perform the "hydrant through platforms" glitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=32&v=tAxeke1LC6g

I'm done.

 

[fromundaman]

You can deliberately perform the "hydrant through platforms" glitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=32&v=tAxeke1LC6g

I'm done.

That's old news lol.
Pepespain does some great research, but while it is new to most of the people on Smashboards, he's been keeping the Pac boards up to date on his discoveries as he finds them.

 

[bekindrewind]

I would also like to mention how great the melon is for edgegaurding. Especially with characters with linear recoveries. Fox and Falco, possibly Diddy too. Throwing the melon resorts them to either getting hit by the melon, recovering high, or recovering low. If they recover low, throw a hydrant, or bait an airdodge then hydrant. If they airdodge when recovering low, you might even be able to make them go so low they can't recover anymore.

And if they recover high, wait for an airdodge then punish them with a nair or even an orange if you can charge it in time.

 

[NimbusSpark]

I'm not sure if this was already found, but like most other grabbable projectiles, but like how you can grab the item of an enemy with a well timed air-dodge, Pac-Man can also do it with his own Bonus Fruit, thus letting you become able to Z-Drop them with ease.
I must say from what I tested, the Galaxian and Bell work with this method.

 

[fromundaman]

So I can't find the post anymore and give a proper shoutout to the person who originally suggested this, but someone was talking about putting a red trampoline above the ledge to punish ledge options. This sounded far fetched and I've been busy so I didn't take it into the lab until tonight. Oh my god... Whoever you are, thank you so much for suggesting this.

I've made an excel document showing exactly what ledge options get punished by death for what characters when a red trampoline is set at the ledge (You ideally want to aim it with 2/3 the trampoline offstage). I highly suggest you guys put this on your phones and check it before a match, because some characters do get murdered by this strategy.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mcp1km67hbla2f/Pacman Ledge Red Trampoline trap.xlsx?dl=0






Going to summon some of the crew because this is too big to ignore:

@ Nu~
@ BSP
@ Firedemon0
@ Paper Maribro
@dragontamer
@ WeirdChillFever
@LanceStern
@ Pacack
@Galaxian
@ NimbusSpark

Bleh probably forgetting people but it's late.

 

[Paper Maribro]

So I can't find the post anymore and give a proper shoutout to the person who originally suggested this, but someone was talking about putting a red trampoline above the ledge to punish ledge options. This sounded far fetched and I've been busy so I didn't take it into the lab until tonight. Oh my god... Whoever you are, thank you so much for suggesting this.

I've made an excel document showing exactly what ledge options get punished by death for what characters when a red trampoline is set at the ledge (You ideally want to aim it with 2/3 the trampoline offstage). I highly suggest you guys put this on your phones and check it before a match, because some characters do get murdered by this strategy.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mcp1km67hbla2f/Pacman Ledge Red Trampoline trap.xlsx?dl=0






Going to summon some of the crew because this is too big to ignore:

@ Nu~
@ BSP
@ Firedemon0
@ Paper Maribro
@dragontamer
@ WeirdChillFever
@LanceStern
@ Pacack
@Galaxian
@ NimbusSpark

Bleh probably forgetting people but it's late.

Edited tags don't work, here let me try

@ Nu~
@ BSP
@ Firedemon0
@dragontamer
@ WeirdChillFever
@LanceStern
@ Pacack
@Galaxian
@ NimbusSpark
@ COLINBG
@ PEPESPAIN

Anyway, good work dude!

 

[Nu~]

So I can't find the post anymore and give a proper shoutout to the person who originally suggested this, but someone was talking about putting a red trampoline above the ledge to punish ledge options. This sounded far fetched and I've been busy so I didn't take it into the lab until tonight. Oh my god... Whoever you are, thank you so much for suggesting this.

I've made an excel document showing exactly what ledge options get punished by death for what characters when a red trampoline is set at the ledge (You ideally want to aim it with 2/3 the trampoline offstage). I highly suggest you guys put this on your phones and check it before a match, because some characters do get murdered by this strategy.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mcp1km67hbla2f/Pacman Ledge Red Trampoline trap.xlsx?dl=0





Going to summon some of the crew because this is too big to ignore:

@ Nu~
@ BSP
@ Firedemon0
@ Paper Maribro
@dragontamer
@ WeirdChillFever
@LanceStern
@ Pacack
@Galaxian
@ NimbusSpark

Bleh probably forgetting people but it's late.

So my idea since the release date has finally been put to use?

Holy **** yes!!

Abadango actually did a vid on how to do this not too long ago, but I had this idea since the pacman trailer when I saw the trampoline properties.


These characters shouldn't be able to do anything except for ledge drop.
The trampoline has to be slightly floating in the air


So we are essentially the God of the ledge.
I knew this would be stupid lol

 

[COLINBG]

Woah.

I'm pretty sure everyone thought about it at one point, but I've never actually tested to see if it was worth anything.

Props for the chart @ fromundaman

If I understand correctly, putting a red trampoline on the ledge against, say, a Duck Hunt (yes in the 4 collumns) means that his only option is getting punished hard while landing with UpB, or stalling the ledge until it goes off? Is it that good or am I missing something?

How viable is it though? Because it takes some time and it's dangerous to set up a red trampoline (which is why I didn't like the idea of Villager/Pac trampoline pocketing in doubles). It also goes off after some time so you can't let it chill there the whole match, and if you UpB again you lose it (when you get launched too far offstage/want stage control).

It's still a wonderful idea on paper, and I'll be sure to experiment with it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Even better with Slampoline, since there the set up has a slam hitbox.

 

[Nu~]

Woah.

I'm pretty sure everyone thought about it at one point, but I've never actually tested to see if it was worth anything.

Props for the chart @ fromundaman

If I understand correctly, putting a red trampoline on the ledge against, say, a Duck Hunt (yes in the 4 collumns) means that his only option is getting punished hard while landing with UpB, or stalling the ledge until it goes off? Is it that good or am I missing something?

How viable is it though? Because it takes some time and it's dangerous to set up a red trampoline (which is why I didn't like the idea of Villager/Pac trampoline pocketing in doubles). It also goes off after some time so you can't let it chill there the whole match, and if you UpB again you lose it (when you get launched too far offstage/want stage control).

It's still a wonderful idea on paper, and I'll be sure to experiment with it.

It's mainly for when the opponent is knocked offstage. If they try to wait it out, you can go for a hydrant drop for the stage spike or a bell and footstool them to their death.

Edit-
For those who don't like battlefield:
If you set up a trampoline by the ledge and stand on the platform nearest to that ledge, you can get a free Fsmash once the opponent gets bounced up by the trampoline.
Essentially a kill confirm off the ledge at ~100%

 

[fromundaman]

So my idea since the release date has finally been put to use?

Holy **** yes!!

Abadango actually did a vid on how to do this not too long ago, but I had this idea since the pacman trailer when I saw the trampoline properties.


These characters shouldn't be able to do anything except for ledge drop.
The trampoline has to be slightly floating in the air


So we are essentially the God of the ledge.
I knew this would be stupid lol

Ah so this was your idea? Thank you for that.

That said your list is not right. Kirby for example breaks the red trampoline with his neutral get up for some reason but is immune to the effect. Villager does the same with his get up attack (Although who would do get up attack unless they know it will get them out of this? I mean that whiffed get up attack does get punished).
That's what my chart is for

Woah.

I'm pretty sure everyone thought about it at one point, but I've never actually tested to see if it was worth anything.

Props for the chart @ fromundaman

If I understand correctly, putting a red trampoline on the ledge against, say, a Duck Hunt (yes in the 4 collumns) means that his only option is getting punished hard while landing with UpB, or stalling the ledge until it goes off? Is it that good or am I missing something?

How viable is it though? Because it takes some time and it's dangerous to set up a red trampoline (which is why I didn't like the idea of Villager/Pac trampoline pocketing in doubles). It also goes off after some time so you can't let it chill there the whole match, and if you UpB again you lose it (when you get launched too far offstage/want stage control).

It's still a wonderful idea on paper, and I'll be sure to experiment with it.

That is correct, and when they get back they won't have ledge invincibility.

As for setting it up, depends on the character. Against someone like Samus, you can set it up while she bomb jumps, or against Ness while he PK2s.


Definitely not going to have the same usefulness for each character, but even if you only get this to work once in a set, that's a free stock.




EDIT:

Also let's be serious, if this covers neutral get up and roll, then there is a good chance that this will work at least once. Who sees trampoline above their heads and goes "I'll tempt it, let's jump through it and hope for the best!" or tries to attack it?

 

[Nu~]

Ah so this was your idea? Thank you for that.

That said your list is not right. Kirby for example breaks the red trampoline with his neutral get up for some reason but is immune to the effect. Villager does the same with his get up attack (Although who would do get up attack unless they know it will get them out of this? I mean that whiffed get up attack does get punished).
That's what my chart is for



That is correct, and when they get back they won't have ledge invincibility.

As for setting it up, depends on the character. Against someone like Samus, you can set it up while she bomb jumps, or against Ness while he PK2s.


Definitely not going to have the same usefulness for each character, but even if you only get this to work once in a set, that's a free stock.




EDIT:

Also let's be serious, if this covers neutral get up and roll, then there is a good chance that this will work at least once. Who sees trampoline above their heads and goes "I'll tempt it, let's jump through it and hope for the best!" or tries to attack it?

True. Abadango's testing was wrong then I see.

Even as time goes on and this doesn't get us a free stock every match, it puts the opponent at a major disadvantage every time they touch the ledge.

We will know what few options they have to not die, and we can punish accordingly.
Immune to it during ledge attack? A well spaced blinky says high.
You can jump past it? Meet my bell or galaxian.

And then there's the unluck few who will just die immediately like poor mega man, ROB, and ness.

 

[bekindrewind]

A technique Abadango likes to do (mostly as a kill option) is catch the apple, throw it up and trampoline the opponent so they get hit by the apple. This can also be a very good neutral game tool, primarily with the melon. It gives almost 20% from the Pac-Jump bite and the melon (this is also guaranteed). Also works with other fruits that bounce like the cherry and strawberry.

 

[fromundaman]

A technique Abadango likes to do (mostly as a kill option) is catch the apple, throw it up and trampoline the opponent so they get hit by the apple. This can also be a very good neutral game tool, primarily with the melon. It gives almost 20% from the Pac-Jump bite and the melon (this is also guaranteed). Also works with other fruits that bounce like the cherry and strawberry.

This also works really well with up thrown melon or apple into a B-throw. The melon one is especially effective with the new item boost thing they found last week.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

I read your comments but i don't know how to set the red trampoline fast.

So I can't find the post anymore and give a proper shoutout to the person who originally suggested this, but someone was talking about putting a red trampoline above the ledge to punish ledge options. This sounded far fetched and I've been busy so I didn't take it into the lab until tonight. Oh my god... Whoever you are, thank you so much for suggesting this.

I've made an excel document showing exactly what ledge options get punished by death for what characters when a red trampoline is set at the ledge (You ideally want to aim it with 2/3 the trampoline offstage). I highly suggest you guys put this on your phones and check it before a match, because some characters do get murdered by this strategy.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mcp1km67hbla2f/Pacman Ledge Red Trampoline trap.xlsx?dl=0

The document is "fine" but we need to know how to set up the red trampoline trap, the position is really important.

Did you record it? I want to see a video how do you do this...

You can deliberately perform the "hydrant through platforms" glitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=32&v=tAxeke1LC6g

I'm done.

I used to post my videos on pacman video thread! Check it out!

 

[fromundaman]

I read your comments but i don't know how to set the red trampoline fast.




The document is "fine" but we need to know how to set up the red trampoline trap, the position is really important.

Did you record it? I want to see a video how do you do this...

I did not. I really only tested it the other night (And even that took a while) and sadly probably won't be able to practice with this much as I'm going to be out of the country for a month. I do hope to hit up some french tournaments while I'm there, but most of my time will be spent with family.

For this reason, I am going to be depending on you guys to find ways to set this up. This is probably going to be a situational gimmick, but a really good one. All I have right now is theory, but here are my thoughts on how we *should* be able to utilize this:

-Ness is the only one I tested for ways to set up against, but we can basically set this up for free any time he has to UpB to the ledge. As long as he starts an UpB at a distance where he can't go past the ledge, then you can set this up.

-Back to theory: For every character that needs to sweetspot the ledge, we should be able to safely attempt this. Even if they reach the ledge before the trampoline turns red, we can just land and abuse the fact that all their get ups will be stopped by trampoline and force them to jump (Yes, for some reason normal and yellow trampoline also catch the options that red trampoline doesn't. I don't know why.). This would be really effective against characters like Falcon.

-Characters who take a while to recover, like Samus with bomb jumping, Luigi/Doc with tornado recoveries, Diddy with UpB, etc. we should be able to set this up while they try to make it back to the ledge.

 

[COLINBG]

Tu parles français, @ fromundaman ? Or are you just there to visit?

Anyway, as you said, it's a situational tool. I haven't been able to set it up in a real match so far, but I'll do more testing tomorrow. It's not groundbreaking, and won't replace our gimping game, but it sure is something Pacmains will want to be aware of and able to replicate.

Also, does anyone know how long the red trampoline stays out? It seems to disappear too fast for us to set it up and then push someone offstage, most of the times. Even if setting it up while the opponent is on stage is dangerous, it would've given us more options. We can only use it against characters with subpar recovery, when we send them far enough.

 

[fromundaman]

Les deux; je vais visiter de la famille.

IDK, I feel it could be game changing against some characters like Ness, where we can set this up in reaction to their recovery and therefore have it out when they grab the ledge.

Also this seems to work well in doubles. I know Eevee (He plays Kirby) and I were messing with it and a great way to set it up if doubles was for me to set up the trampoline, have him run over it as he goes out to gimp while I turn it red in case they get past him. We haven't actually tried it in an actual match yet though.

 

[NimbusSpark]

IDK, I feel it could be game changing against some characters like Ness, where we can set this up in reaction to their recovery and therefore have it out when they grab the ledge.

I must agree that this is potentially game changing. Some of these characters with recoveries that generally to aim for the ledge lose a ton of their ledge options. Either they're forced to drop off the ledge, or they're dead trying to get back up.
Also, I must note that whilst both Default and Meteor Trampoline can be used:
- Default requires more time to setup, but can take out enemies at any percent.
- Meteor is of course, easier to setup due to lower bounces, but is not really effective for kiilling at significally higher percentages due to the meteor effect.
I'm not too sure with the power of someone jumping on a Red Meteor tramp compared to getting hit by one of the meteor hitboxes below the trampoline, during the bounce.

 

[Nu~]

I must agree that this is potentially game changing. Some of these characters with recoveries that generally to aim for the ledge lose a ton of their ledge options. Either they're forced to drop off the ledge, or they're dead trying to get back up.
Also, I must note that whilst both Default and Meteor Trampoline can be used:
- Default requires more time to setup, but can take out enemies at any percent.
- Meteor is of course, easier to setup due to lower bounces, but is not really effective for kiilling at significally higher percentages due to the meteor effect.
I'm not too sure with the power of someone jumping on a Red Meteor tramp compared to getting hit by one of the meteor hitboxes below the trampoline, during the bounce.

I would do it with meteor trampoline. That spike is stupid powerful. And if they try to grab the ledge again (if they can actually survive) they have lost their invincibility...You know what that means.
Spike them again!

 

[fromundaman]

Don't forget that you can abort the setup at any point if it looks like they'll reach you before it's red and still have the stupidly strong setup of a normal trampoline on top of them which will catch all their ledge options.

Sure, it's not *quite* as good as having that trampoline with a hydrant over it, but it's still ridiculous. If you have bell handy this is still a no-win for the opponent.


Wow... I just realized that I briefly considered a setup that leaves the opponent with only "Jump" or "Let go of the ledge and forfeit invincibility" a comparatively bad setup because there was no KO strength hitbox or insta-kill involved... Have I mentioned our ledge guarding game is super dumb?

 

[Nu~]

So Meteor trampoline covers bowser jr.'s get up attack unlike the original.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

In vacuum, most characters can recover from the Slam, but in practice you can slam them again.

 

[Nu~]

Isn't it funny how we can use most of mega man's Z drop techs better than him?
Imagine the stupid combos and kill confirms with this

 

[Firedemon0]

Isn't it funny how we can use most of mega man's Z drop techs better than him?
Imagine the stupid combos and kill confirms with this

I would say yes, but unlike Metal blade, outside of cherry, everything else would launch too far for some of these to work. It would be great for Bell setups though.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Isn't it funny how we can use most of mega man's Z drop techs better than him?
Imagine the stupid combos and kill confirms with this

Freaky Cherry just got too freaky.