Out of order, new matchup thread coming soon!

[Goldenadept]

you can technically bait anything Gah777, you just have to notice the playstyle of your opponent and abuse it.
say i'm playing a snake and i notice that he favors spot dodging, i could just run at him with no intention of attacking and bait that spotdodge and when he does it i can punish

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

SelfPossessed is correct, and uair is very fast; said situation is not at all theoretical. ZSS players use this technique all the time, actually. Uair to force a reaction (shine, in this case, or an airdodge) and punish it with another uair. It's reliable and very easy.

He is not correct in that MK's uair is "better." It certainly ends faster and is easier to spam, but ZSS' uair has the closest thing Smash offers to god priority and comes out very very quickly. It beats almost every aerial (the only exception being King Dedede's down air).

 

[KRDsonic]

Sounds like some good info. As long as I stay away from being directly above ZSS then I should be ok.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

I added some ZSS stuff. If anyone has any suggestions for counterpicks/bans than say so.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Alright, I guess we can start toon link now.

IMO wolf has the advantage.

 

[tekkie]

Alright, I guess we can start toon link now.

IMO wolf has the advantage.

toon link is an *******.

/sums up my opinion on every matchup

the projectiles are crazy, toon link is short and therefore a jerk to hit safely when grounded, has excellent recovery, and doesnt have trouble KOing. wofl can shine stuff but that's begging for a grab. wofl's only useful approach, SHbair, is kind of okay but thats begging for a retreating boomerang or something.

little *******

 

[Ishiey]

Walk > PS to approach through his projectiles. Not hard to do at all, and very very helpful.

I said some stuff about the MU in the TL's matchup thread, if I'm ever not being lazy I'll revisit that and pull some stuff over here

 

[_Kain_]

TL does not have an easy time killing his kill moves are easy to see comin. Learning to PS is a must dont shine stuff unless ur far away

 

[Seagull Joe]

Yeah. Bait his Usmash or grounded Uair. Just stay grounded. Powershield or shield the Usmash and Dsmash him.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Toon Link slightly beats Wolf imo but its close like 55/45

 

[Goldenadept]

hey random question, if Tink zairs you and you shine what happens? does the hookshot extend his hurtbox so he gets hit? or does it just phase through you?
I've only ever played a couple Tinks but he dies super fast from what I've seen, a good dsmash will kill at around 100-120% if not sooner. His bair is so annoying too... does it beat ours?

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Did the toon links discuss wolf recently?

If so then maybe I could get some info from that thread too.

 

[Ishiey]

Yeah, kinda recently... >_>

Here's the link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=182154

May 2009 was the revised discussion, so check it out from there.

 

[tekkie]

fsmash beats arrows and boomerangs

shine beats like all aerials if done with awesome spacing, as usual

 

[tedeth]

It's reasonably even. 50:50 or 55:45 our advantage, simply because we can avoid kill moves so **** well.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

I'm probably going to try and make a summary for this sometime next week, I've been busy studying for mid terms. So add more info if you have it including things like counterpicks.

 

[tedeth]

Yoshis is good. The long, tilting platform stuffs up his projectiles.

 

[Goldenadept]

can someone tell me what happens when you shine toon links zair? @_@

 

[Ishiey]

Why would you shine it instead of shield/PS it? @_@

Idk how long the zair hitbox is active, but I'd assume you just dodge it and then he kills you during lag.

 

[_Kain_]

Yea it's best just to charge in and PS it. Spot dodging and shining it leave u open to be hit

 

[Goldenadept]

that wasnt the point guys XD i just wanted to know, would it hit you? would it backfire and hit him?

 

[_Kain_]

that wasnt the point guys XD i just wanted to know, would it hit you? would it backfire and hit him?

It prolly wud not have any effect on u due to invincibility frames then hed swipe u with his sword. I actually don't know does his chain have a lasting hit?

 

[tedeth]

Umm you might be able to avoid it with invincibility. But yeah I wouldn't reccomend it you'd just get hit afterwards.

I think what Goldenadept was asking is does the zair have a hurtbox. If this was the case, then the answer is no. You cannot hit the zair to hit TL.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

I play a very good toonlink(kingtoon) a lot and beat him in tournament this past weekend. Toon link is a weird mu. His spam you can't beat with your spam and your reflector but mainly if he has a great camping game, you must approach. Our bair outranged his fair so look to bair A LOT in this mu. At low %(0-15%) if he hits you with a dsmash at the end of the stage it will send you REALLY far off the stage, you will still be able to recover but look out for the spam because if it hits you, your dead.

 

[castorpollux]

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

 

[Ishiey]

81 bottles of beer left JJ ;D

(but yeah take that to the social thread >_>)

 

[Gah777]

is this not the social thread?

i thought all stickies were social threads

 

[castorpollux]

is this not the social thread?

i thought all stickies were social threads

yahhhhh me too

 

[Gah777]

oh btw...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXUcOei3FUM

 

[castorpollux]

yah i think this is a sign to move onto the next character. I personally hate toon links, but thats just a personal hatred for the character and i have no idea wat the match up ratio is

 

[Seagull Joe]

So Pit now? Uhhhhhh. I have no idea what this matchup is. This is my least played of any match up. I've played Yoshi, Samus, and Sonic more then Pit.

 

[castorpollux]

i hate pit soo much

 

[Ishiey]

is this not the social thread?

i thought all stickies were social threads

Shhh, don't let the outsiders find out >___________>

But yeah, it looks like we're ready to move on to the next character

Pit, someone please tell me what the deal is with that fthrow chaingrab

 

[castorpollux]

the fthrow cg is fthrow fthrow -> fsmash

 

[Seagull Joe]

the fthrow cg is fthrow fthrow -> fsmash

Or Fthrow>Dthrow>Uair.

 

[tekkie]

a buncha fthrows to dash attack. ive had it done to ~65%, no idea when/how its escapable

 

[Ishiey]

Yeah, I'm most concerned with finding a legit way to escape it >_> Jab maybe? Idk I need to try this out sometime.

 

[Gah777]

will shine work?

 

[tekkie]

kinda tried it out. seems to work after the second fthrow maybe. of course, then they can wait for the shine and raep you for it lol

 

[Meru.]

Good day Wolves!

You have been invited for the Peach - Wolf rediscussion here.

Cya there! ;D