OU Balancing: Finding a standard!

[UltiMario]

Inner Focus Gabite would be cool though.

:<

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Inner Focus Gabite would be cool though.

:<

Ice Punch Ambipom would probably be used more as a result.

Alakazam is the only Pokemon in UU with Inner Focus, right?

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

...It gets Ice Punch?

DAMMIT

 

[Terywj [태리]]

...It gets Ice Punch?

DAMMIT

I'm not checking Smogon but I'm pretty sure it does.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Ice Punch Ambipom would probably be used more as a result.

Alakazam is the only Pokemon in UU with Inner Focus, right?

-Terywj

Lucario has it.

 

[ss118]

I'm sorry, but you CANNOT buff Charizard in any way if you give him Fire/Dragon Type. I've theorymonned with him before enough to know that those low stats are the only thing keeping a Fire/Dragon Charizard OUT OF UBERS. You'd need to give Heatran AND Empoleon Levitate (which makes NO SENSE AT ALL) to make sure that with those kinds of stats that there would be Charizard counters in OU at all.

Pick one. Dragon/Fire, or buffed stats. Add both and Charizard gets the boot out of the tier with even shakier counters than Garchomp with priority Dragon added.

Swords Dance isn't powerful enough, even with STAB priority, to be able to take everything in the tier. And he can't abuse priority with Belly Drum, so he has to pick one or the other. I'm more worried about something like a mixed attacking set with both Dragon and Fire STAB. May have to knock it's speed back to 100, but w/e. At least things going for the 500 speed range(to beat scarfchomp) can keep it in line.

Dragonic priority just seems like a balance in the wrong direction anyway.

Unless Art implements his new type chart.

I intend to make Dragon a worse attacking type, though if people really hate the idea of my type chart I find it fairly difficult to do so. If it gets to that point, I'll figure out how to open up my own server and work on it there.

Edit:

Salamence- No Stat or type changes.
Movepool Changes: -Dragon Rush

I figure he's good enough to hold his own, even when compared to Garchomp and other OU dragons: he doesn't need priority. Now gives Dragonite MORE of a reason to shine anyway! =)

Azumarill- Base 51 Speed
Legality Changes: There is no illegal combination of moves anymore

Even if Belly Drum + Aqua Jet was legal, don't think he'd get that far. Let's see how this works....

 

[Pink Reaper]

Art you know my feelings about Ariados.

140/110 is just stupid.

Go with 110/100/80/x/85/80 on Dos.

Makes him Bulky enough to use without him being absolutely stupid

 

[Wave⁂]

Nuke Outrage.

Discuss.

 

[ss118]

Nuke(as in make it more powerful) or nerf?

And I am quite aware of your feelings, PR. Since this type chart isn't going down, Bug/ Poison has ****ty type-coverage again. Then he has un-STABed Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch? An Agility set? why would you use agility when you can just spider web and pass to something better to stat up, if you even get that free turn.

I say "give it a chance"

 

[Wave⁂]

Nuke as in "wipe it off the face of the server."

 

[ss118]

Outrage isn't that great: and it would be worse if we made something else resist dragon. Any suggestions?

 

[betterthanbonds9]

I'm sorry, but you CANNOT buff Charizard in any way if you give him Fire/Dragon Type. I've theorymonned with him before enough to know that those low stats are the only thing keeping a Fire/Dragon Charizard OUT OF UBERS. You'd need to give Heatran AND Empoleon Levitate (which makes NO SENSE AT ALL) to make sure that with those kinds of stats that there would be Charizard counters in OU at all.

Pick one. Dragon/Fire, or buffed stats. Add both and Charizard gets the boot out of the tier with even shakier counters than Garchomp with priority Dragon added.

still takes 25% from SR. Still only has 100 base speed, can now be hit with ground moves and dragon moves for new supereffectives (does take away electric and water, but ground is pretty significant). Hell, not being able to switch into a fighting move is pretty significant. The attack buffs are each only 6 base points for 13 more attack and special attack, aka: not ground breaking.

as long as charizard isn't above base 100 it needs dragon dance to be safe. Otherwise it's just running specs or scarf special attacks and that set is already in existence (except the now STAB dragon pulse is pretty cool). Outrage charizard isn't anything really special because a lot of stuff knows EQ and 90 base attack isn't exactly the amazing damage of 135 salamence or 130 garchomp or even 95 kingdra (who has far better bulk and resistances)

Most dragons already learn fire moves, the STAB on fire moves like flamethrower and fire blast is far less useful than getting STAB on dragon moves. fire/dragon isn't all that great imo

So yeah, the thing keeping charizard out of Ubers are his stats, but that's generally what keeps pokemon out of Ubers.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Nuke(as in make it more powerful) or nerf?

And I am quite aware of your feelings, PR. Since this type chart isn't going down, Bug/ Poison has ****ty type-coverage again. Then he has un-STABed Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch? An Agility set? why would you use agility when you can just spider web and pass to something better to stat up, if you even get that free turn.

I say "give it a chance"

He becomes the best Breloom counter in the game LOL. As well as a very usable Trap Passer and non-lead Toxic Spiker(or even a LEAD TSpiker)

Give him U-Turn/Gunk Shot/Poison Jab/Swords Dance. He becomes alot less stupid that way lol.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Alakazam is the only Pokemon in UU with Inner Focus, right?

-Terywj

Lucario has it.

...I think you overlooked my post.

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

I think Hail should be moddified. Its unfair that Steel, Earth, and Rock are immune to Sandstorm while only Ice is immune to Hail. Honestly, more types should, namely Water and to some extent Fire. Now, assuming we do change stealth rocks, Hail and Sandstorm now seem on even ground, at least on the basic engine of how they work, and both can fill themselves with counters for each other, as opposed to now, where Sandstorm sweeps hail, straight up.

 

[UltiMario]

Fire resisting Hail doesn't make sense unless you remove Fire's water weakness. In theory hail would melt near fire types and make huge, slushy drops of rain, which at the speeds of gravity and energy gained involved, is still EXTREMELY painful.

 

[CRASHiC]

But then by that standard, Fire shouldn't resist ice either

 

[UltiMario]

Ground is SUPER EFFECTIVE against Rock and Steel and THEY resist SS.

There is obviously no type-chart logic involved with weather.

 

[CRASHiC]

Steel gets erode by sandstorms though, so there isn't much logic behind it either.

 

[UltiMario]

Quite honestly you even erode the ground and rocks with SS.

Even Icebergs get dents from hail.

I vote that nothing is immune to weather because there is nothing that makes logical sense.

 

[CRASHiC]

Well the, let's just focus on balance and making back-*** pokemon world sense

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Not until we generate abilities like Dry Skin / Ice Body / Rain Dish for Sandstorm / Hail!

I'm only kidding.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

Shock Absorber:
Recovers 25% health when hit with a ground type move. Recovers 6% HP a turn in Sandstorm.

THE METAGAME HAS BEEN CHANGED FOREVER.

 

[Circa]

Shock Absorber:
Recovers 25% health when hit with a ground type move. Recovers 6% HP a turn in Sandstorm.

THE METAGAME HAS BEEN CHANGED FOREVER.

If they were to ever create that, you know they'd give it to something like Aerodactyl just to **** with us.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Yeah I think Aerodactyl and Skarmory would be prime candidates for Shock Absorber.

-Terywj

 

[Circa]

Yeah I think Aerodactyl and Skarmory would be prime candidates for Shock Absorber.

-Terywj

Skarmory would be bull**** to face with such an ability. "Oh hey, I have a Shed Shell, gain HP like I have lefties, and you can no longer predict my Roost and EQ! Have fun taking down my bulky ***!"

I'd basically cry if that happened. Luckily I don't really play OU anymore.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I wouldn't think twice, for the very reasons you listed at the end of your post.

-Terywj

 

[ss118]

I think Hail should be moddified. Its unfair that Steel, Earth, and Rock are immune to Sandstorm while only Ice is immune to Hail. Honestly, more types should, namely Water and to some extent Fire. Now, assuming we do change stealth rocks, Hail and Sandstorm now seem on even ground, at least on the basic engine of how they work, and both can fill themselves with counters for each other, as opposed to now, where Sandstorm sweeps hail, straight up.

I was thinking this too, but I don't know exactly how to do that. Water may be able to get by on this, but Water is a good enough type as it is. I would like to work this so that a lesser-used type would get a boost(such as how Ice did). Like Poison or something..... oh well. =/

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Maybe...Normal? Or Fighting?

I've got nothing.

-Terywj

 

[Circa]

I could see Fighting-types. *watches Rocky 4*

I'm pretty sure they have Fighting-types located in the Hail routes in D/P/Pt anyway. I distinctly remember seeing Machokes and Medichams there.

I'll try and think of another that would make sense. The only one I can think of right now is maybe Fire (they just melt the hail with their bodies), but it already benefits from Sunny Day, so it'd be better to not give that spot to them.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I also remember seeing Machoke and Medicham on the routes leading into Snowpoint, so it's just more support for it.

What does everyone else think?

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

As long as no one minds making the rich types richer in this reguard. Personally, I have no problem with it, because we can still buff the other types in other ways, and we are making a strategy much more viable. This will probably also increase the viability of stall teams as well, which don't fair too well in modern day OU.

 

[UltiMario]

Tell that to hail stall.

 

[ss118]

Linoone- Base 83 Attack
Movepool Changes: +Superpower
-The attack increase allows it to be able to KO a lot of things it couldn't, while Superpower turns this into a double-edged sword: while it may have great power and grant amazing coverage, using it at the wrong time can very easily lead to your downfall.

Jynx- Oblivious is replaced with Magic Guard. Base 105 Speed.
Movepool Changes: +Endeavor
-Base 105 to beat Chomp+others, ties with Mismagius, loses to Infernape. Magic Guard gives it the ability to easily abuse Focus Sash with some kind of Counter, Endeavor, or Perish-Trapping set. Also lets it go Sub+CM in Sand.

Flareon- No Stat, Ability, or type changes.
Movepool Changes: +Sacred Fire
-All it really needs: lets it abuse stuff like Curse, Scarf, Band, Sub, and Wish just much more efficiently. PP Boost to Sacred Fire means it can't be easily stalled out.

 

[UltiMario]

...Sacred Fire...

People don't understand what "exclusive moves" are, do they?

 

[ss118]

nope. What are those?

 

[Wave⁂]

Yeah man, exclusive moves, like...

Muddy Water for Swampert (which is learned by Gastrodon, Blastoise, Kyogre, Kingdra, etc.)
FeatherDance for Pidgeot (which is learned by Farfetch'd, Swellow, Honchkrow, Chatot, etc.)
Weather Ball for Castform (which learned by Lugia, Ho-oh, Roserade, Victreebel, Drifblim, etc.)
Crush Claw for Zangoose (which is learned by Sandslash, Regigigas, Typhlosion, Weavile, etc.)
Assist for Delcatty (which is learned by Persian, Hypno, Furret, Spinda, Purugly, Infernape, etc.)

 

[UltiMario]

Its been 2 generations since Sacred Fire, and STILL nothing has got it. All those new to Gen 3, and all were given out as a fact that Gen 4 significantly expanded movepools all around the board for Pokemon.

If they wanted to give something Aeroblast and Sacred Fire, then they would have by now, and if they don't by Gen 5 they DEFINITELY never plan to.

If you want to buff Flareon, find the NU to OU changes done to it and use those.

 

[CRASHiC]

I'm confused, I thought this was looking at the grander pokemon picture and attempting to balance from there, while NU to OU focuses with the surgical changes.

 

[ss118]

That is what I'm trying to do: but to accomplish that, we need NU pokemon to be boosted to OU status. And we may need to knock down a few of the types for a less steel/ dragon centralized metagame.