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Oregon Smash Community [OSC] - Oregon's official Smash Community est. 2005
- Thread starter T0MMY
- Start date
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
Right, 'cause we all like bowling.
Rage.
Smash Ace
the **** does Bowling have to do with ****?
its not smash so its not important
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
From a competitive standpoint:
DDR = Bowling.
You can play a perfect game, since there's no interaction between players, so competition dies at the highest level, rather than thriving.
Rage.
Smash Ace
And theys why Smash > DDR
but DDR is pretty fun
but DDR is pretty fun
Binx
Smash Master
There is already an empire games tournament on that date that is set in stone and will have more people than yours.
Rage.
Smash Ace
man Binx way to crush peoples hopes and dreams.
oh well its Digital Watchs
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
Cool, then I'll probably move it.
capncone
Smash Apprentice
Where's the info for this tourney? I haven't seen any in the pacific west boards.
Binx
Smash Master
Not sure exactly I am pretty sure its in the Oregon regional thread somewhere, should just say empire games tourney, its a repeating tournie that happens every 3rd sat of the month, except the last cause of OC3 and SFE
Kevvviiinnn
Smash Lord
oregon should have more smashfests >_>
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
We are trying to get a really good Salem venue.
Wow, you clearly have no knowledge whatsoever of competitive DDR. Or bowlling. Or competitive anything, if that's what your mindset is.
Rage.
Smash Ace
Who smashs in salem?
only cheap losers
thats who
only cheap losers
thats who
brdy_
Smash Lord
Btw, I agree with Watches on this subject.
PS: Here comes joshisrad starting another argument!!
Geez, brdy, you're too much for me. I just can't compete. Pointing my moves out to me? Provoking me as usual? Lay off, man, you're killing me here. You must be one of those alpha males. You know, like what you see on the Discovery Channel when the head wolf kicks the lesser wolves' butts because he's so badass? Sheesh buddy, I don't wanna mess with you.
I'll add, for anyone who actually cares about this heated internet stuff: if you can't see that DW started it, you're just plain silly! =)
I'll add, for anyone who actually cares about this heated internet stuff: if you can't see that DW started it, you're just plain silly! =)
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
The problem is that only Exodia and Zapdos have connections to that place and they are both drunken sailors half the time we can't contact them. We are looking into a church that might let us hold a tournament, Doc_Holiday is more in charge of it but it sounds reliable to me.
Rage.
Smash Ace
I think that if Joshisrad and Brdy got into a fist fight
I would be able to video tape it and sell it
and I would let people place bets
Everyone place your bets on the fist fight of the centurey
Joshisrad Vs Brdy
20 dollar minum bet
I would be able to video tape it and sell it
and I would let people place bets
Everyone place your bets on the fist fight of the centurey
Joshisrad Vs Brdy
20 dollar minum bet
brdy_
Smash Lord
I tried to discuss this with him through AIM, but he blocked me.
IRL debate MM seems imminent.
IRL debate MM seems imminent.
Nor would I be inclined to senselessly hurt anyone like that.
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
Are we really arguing over bowling and DDR?
I'm moving to Vegas.
I'm moving to Vegas.
Wikipedia
Smash Lord
This is true.
Gimpyfish.
Gimpyfish.
Rage.
Smash Ace
man im ****ing tired
im going to the beach right now
so Joshisrad, Cmin and Binx ill be back probley tommrow if you guys want to smash
im going to the beach right now
so Joshisrad, Cmin and Binx ill be back probley tommrow if you guys want to smash
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
Jeez, no need to get all up in arms, people. I never said DDR or Bowling was a bad game, just that they die off at the highest level of competition by their very design. I don't see how this could not be true, but as long as you're not playing the game competitively (are you?) I don't see how this is a problem.
brdy_
Smash Lord
I think competitive bowling is the most boring piece of crap ever. However, golf is awesome. DDR is cool to watch for like 15 seconds but then it gets really boring (I suck at it).
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
Eh. The real key is that the player's performace does nothing to directly affect the other player. In chess, your pieces can block the way or kill your opponent's pieces. In Smash or other fighting games, you are directly trying to kill your opponent. In puzzle games like Dr. Mario, doing big moves can send your opponent trash which exacerbates the difficulty of surviving. I could go on and on.
Then there are things like running, which have a physical limit involved. Those don't become a competitive metagame, but are still competitive in the sense that it's hard to compete in, because genetics and hard training become a factor that makes breaking the previous record impressive to many.
However, games like bowling, while fun, have a built-in limitation: In bowling, the maximum score is 300. It is very possible to bowl a 300. No matter what you do, you can't get better than a 300, and you can't do anything that's legal within the rules of the game to guaruntee that your opponent gets less than 300 points. What this means is that two players who are at the top level of the game (which is, by definition, the ability to always bowl a 300) will always tie.
Unless there's something very important I'm missing about the design of DDR, there is an attainable perfect score at the highest difficulty of any song. It may be harder than bowling a 300, but it's still a set-in-stone limit that can't be passed and can't be changed. Once two players tie at a perfect score, they can do nothing to beat each other, and that's all I'm saying.
Kami-V
Smash Journeyman
Are we talking Wii bowling or real life bowling?
Cause I used to bowl competatively, and let me tell you, you don't bowl a perfect game every game. It was rare to see a perfect game. But from what I understand Wii bowling is incredibly easy.
Cause I used to bowl competatively, and let me tell you, you don't bowl a perfect game every game. It was rare to see a perfect game. But from what I understand Wii bowling is incredibly easy.
brdy_
Smash Lord
Thx 4 clarifying Watches.
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
Right, but were you one of the best players in the world?
Jem.
Smash Master
Then what you're saying then proves everything wrong.
No matter how good you play, you can't do better than 4 stocking someone with 0%
No matter how good you play, you can't bat better than a 1000
No matter how good you play, you can't make more than every basket.
No matter how good you play, you can't do better than a hole in one every shot.
No matter how good you play, you can't do better than aceing someone every serve.
Your arguement is wrong, because EVERYTHING is competitive and has good to it. I used to bowl in a 2v2 bowling league and took fourth. It takes skill, other people are better than other people, there is a choking point. You can't say one thing is more competitive or takes more skill than another.
No matter how good you play, you can't do better than 4 stocking someone with 0%
No matter how good you play, you can't bat better than a 1000
No matter how good you play, you can't make more than every basket.
No matter how good you play, you can't do better than a hole in one every shot.
No matter how good you play, you can't do better than aceing someone every serve.
Your arguement is wrong, because EVERYTHING is competitive and has good to it. I used to bowl in a 2v2 bowling league and took fourth. It takes skill, other people are better than other people, there is a choking point. You can't say one thing is more competitive or takes more skill than another.
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
Um. Your logic makes no sense. You can't JV fivestock your opponent... AND have them JV fivestock you at the same time, and you CAN interact with them within the game to make them not JV fivestock you. You also don't win by JV fivestocking someone. You win by killing them first, regardless of your score. This is the worst of a bunch of bad examples.
That sort of average is a record-type thing, like running. Baseball is determined by which team makes the most runs, which the other team can prevent. Still flawed logic.
That doesn't even make sense, but again, there are players actively trying to stop you from making those baskets.
Golf, of course, finds its way into physical sport territory in that physical training is involved to a very high extent. But yes. There is a maximum score, and at the point where all players can obtain it, the competition simplifies itself to ties, because the players cannot stop each other from making a hole-in-one. By definition, there is no high-level metagame.
But if your opponent is good enough, they can prevent you from doing so, thus, a metagame. Your logic falls apart once again.
I never said that it didn't. I just said that anything with no player interaction has no top-level metagame. What the **** is your point?
Of course it takes skill, of course people are better than other people, but the people in this world who are the BEST AT THE GAME will always tie, by the rules of the game. That's all I'm saying. You clearly missed my point.
Nor did I. I simply stated that games with player interaction form a competitive metagame at the top level, whereas games without player interaction don't.
Kami-V
Smash Journeyman
No I was not/am not one of the best bowlers in the world, but I did see some. I've watched pro matches, and the chance that both players get a perfect game is incredibly slim. Throwing a ball aboslutely perfectly 12 times in a row down a thin greased lane is not an easy task. That is why they have competative bowling, because even though there is a limit, its still not easy to reach.
No, you are not competing in the same metaphysical "game" with other people while bowling (essentially you could do a game, then an opponent could do a game, and you could compare scores), but your still in a match against each other at a competative level. There is nothing stoping you asside from yourself, but then that just makes it a challenge against you.
Edit: yay for my 100th post
No, you are not competing in the same metaphysical "game" with other people while bowling (essentially you could do a game, then an opponent could do a game, and you could compare scores), but your still in a match against each other at a competative level. There is nothing stoping you asside from yourself, but then that just makes it a challenge against you.
Edit: yay for my 100th post
Holy cow. Do we really have to clutter up this thread to combat ignorance? I'll let Jem handle his own **** to deal with, he seems capable. But DW, I played DDR competitively. And I have bowled competitively. You claim that there is no interaction between players. This is a completely ******** assumption for you to make not only because it's false but because you have no idea what you're talking about and no experience to back it up. You said, "I don't see how this could not be true," and that's exactly your problem. You're just wildly assuming the negative. The highest competitive level for things like DDR and bowling definitely do not die off.
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
I'm wrong about that? What player interaction does DDR allow?
And Kami-V: I'll concede that maybe no one has broken the games yet. Maybe there's no one in the world that actually can consistantly get a 300 in bowling or a perfect score in DDR. It's certainly true of golf, and that's GREAT for the scene if it's true. All I'm saying is that if there's no interaction between players within the game, then two theoretical "perfect" (meaning good enough to get a perfect score consistantly) players would always tie and could do nothing about it except to lose intentionally, or cheat (Use measures outside of the scope of the game, such as giving the opponent a hard kick in the shins).
And Kami-V: I'll concede that maybe no one has broken the games yet. Maybe there's no one in the world that actually can consistantly get a 300 in bowling or a perfect score in DDR. It's certainly true of golf, and that's GREAT for the scene if it's true. All I'm saying is that if there's no interaction between players within the game, then two theoretical "perfect" (meaning good enough to get a perfect score consistantly) players would always tie and could do nothing about it except to lose intentionally, or cheat (Use measures outside of the scope of the game, such as giving the opponent a hard kick in the shins).
Digital Watches
Smash Ace
Alright, is it tournament-legal to interfere with the other player by bumping into them to mess them up? If so, I have a thorough misunderstanding of the game's design.
Not in its entirity and not for a long time. What insights would it give me?
There's no rule against it, but it's in bad taste and would probably get you disqualified just because. That's not the only way a person can interact with the other player, you realize. You definitely have a thorough misunderstanding of the competitive game.
The Big Lebowski features a character who calls himself The Jesus. He **** talks The Dude and Walter in the alley. Enter mindgames.
Also, like I said, I'm not going to play your daddy through your intellectual discovery. I'm not particularly inclined to take this thread into the next level of hell, either. You have no place debating about the game because you have no idea how it works competitively. If you actually want to learn for knowledge's sake, and not just try and save face on the internet, then talk to me personally. Or get serious about whatever it is you have doubts about (DDR, track, bowling, whatever) and then try competing.
The Big Lebowski features a character who calls himself The Jesus. He **** talks The Dude and Walter in the alley. Enter mindgames.
Also, like I said, I'm not going to play your daddy through your intellectual discovery. I'm not particularly inclined to take this thread into the next level of hell, either. You have no place debating about the game because you have no idea how it works competitively. If you actually want to learn for knowledge's sake, and not just try and save face on the internet, then talk to me personally. Or get serious about whatever it is you have doubts about (DDR, track, bowling, whatever) and then try competing.