Oregon PR! updated 10/17/2014

[Purpletuce]

He went to GC, so less than 2 weeks ago. . .

 

[AlienAllen]

1) Eggz
2) FoosJr
3) Ratking
4) Binx
5) Bird
6) Alien
7) Ryan
8) Adam
9) ****ard
10) Kazuki

So does this list look ok to everyone then?

List looks good except I should be above Bird

I have no idea how well Nolan did at GC and I haven't played him in a while so I have no idea where he goes.

 

[Purpletuce]

He is pretty good. . . might I suggest my list:

Eggz
Foos
Ratking
Binx
Alien
Brick
Bird
Ryan (Fishy?)
Adam
J!zzard

Some awards:

Best quotes: Wad
Drunkest: Eggz
Friendliest: Foos
Stoneriest: J!zzard
IShouldHaveBeatenHimest: Ratking
Techzukiest: Techzuki


Then again, I'm a crazy Yoshi main, so who knows if I'm even competent

 

[AlienAllen]

How dare you take Techzuki off the list.

 

[God with a Wavebird]

Foos' list is exactly what I was going to post.
I haven't played Bird in forever so I can't say if he's better or worse than Allen.
Also, I think Oliver is better than J*zzard. I don't want to debate that, so I'm not going to try. I just want it to be noted. Oliver doesn't care if he's on the PR anyway.
I definitely agree that Wad has the best quotes.

 

[The Jizzard]

not that it means anything but the few times i played oliver at BB (he had no money to MM me when i brought it up) i was beating him more than he was beating me.

alsoi can also beat logan which he apparently cant do.
i also placed higher than him in this tournament.




also i think im better than you adam i wish we could have played more to find out.

 

[Purpletuce]

I wish everyone could play everyone all the time.

Also, I don't think it is fair to say you can beat me, there is definitely some back and forth. And Oliver can definitely beat me, it all depends on how I am playing. I think I'm a player with some of the worst consistency in Oregon. I have taken matches off of everyone on the PR with legitimate no-jhons wins against any of their characters except sober Shane's Fox, sober Foos's Sheik and maybe Ratking's Fox (I feel like I have but can't recall any specific time that I did.) I have also lost to just about anyone who takes the game seriously at some point.

Also, I didn't want to take techzuki off the list, but I think if Kyle is on the list it is also fair for Nolan to be. If Kyle isn't on the list, then I would probably put myself in one of those open two spots, and I feel like I don't deserve it yet. I need to get more consistent and scare all you high tiers.

 

[Peach Masta]

I'm aiming for that honorable mention spot

 

[keeper]

Is Kazuki actually getting good/better? He always seemed to hold a lot of potential.

 

[FoosJr]

Kazuki is definitely getting good. And on the subject of Brick on the pr did he enter melee at gc? If he did idk how well he did, I know he didn't make it out of pools because I looked at the bracket, which was really stacked. But I don't have any results to go off of other than a best bout in August which is the last melee tournament I saw him enter.

 

[t!MmY]

If you guys are giving opinions on who is better than whom and making a PR based on those opinions, then you will have an 'opinion-based' PR list.

If you want a PR that ranks plays based on their in-bracket performance, then you guys might want to go with a 'Performance-based' PR. This takes a little more work since you have to keep track of the game sets for each player, but it gives everyone a much better idea of who's improving and provides evidence as to how players should be ranked.

 

[The Jizzard]

Also, I don't think it is fair to say you can beat me, there is definitely some back and forth. And Oliver can definitely beat me, it all depends on how I am playing. I think I'm a player with some of the worst consistency in Oregon. I have taken matches off of everyone on the PR with legitimate no-jhons wins against any of their characters except sober Shane's Fox, sober Foos's Sheik and maybe Ratking's Fox (I feel like I have but can't recall any specific time that I did.) I have also lost to just about anyone who takes the game seriously at some point.

i agree there is some back and forth and I didnt mean to imply you were bad(even though i think yoshi as a character is bad) but i did beat you in our MM after the tournament.

 

[Purpletuce]

The results of the MM are true, you're one of like 2 MMs I did, whch was disappointing. None of them got to be on stream either

Yoshi s a bad character, but once I start getting over some of the speedbumps and am familiar with him, I think he has a ton of potential.

I limit Yoshi more than he limits me.

Kazuki isn't really getting good, so much as Kazuki is good. He hasn't practiced at all, but he has started to change his mindset, which helped by a large degree. If he actually starts playing Melee, he will start to improve which will be interesting.

. . . well I guess he did practice a little at Shane's house, in his matches against me I saw him try to implement run-n-gun fox, which is more or less how he beat Binx. If he actually practiced it, I don't think he would have much problem with improving.

 

[God with a Wavebird]

Ben
Crew battles, friendlies, and tournament placement are not a good way of deciding who’s better than whom. What matters is who you beat or get beaten by in tournament or in a MM.

You beat Bird which is impressive, but you have troubles with non-PR people (e.g. Jarod). Also Oliver beat you the last time you guys played a set, right?
When I put that together and add how hard I feel it is to beat you two, I feel Oliver is slightly better than you.
I don’t think anyone is wrong for thinking you're better than Oliver. PR ranking is hard and fundamentally flawed. Plus everyone on this thread is from the Portland area and Eugene rarely comes up, so I don't think anyone here really knows how good Oliver is.

On that note, I’m going to try really hard to make it to the next BB. I’ll bring Oliver and I’ll MM you. Oliver won’t have any money, and if he does by some godlike miracle, it’s mine because he never pays for gas.

Logan
You’ve never beaten me in a match, or in a single game. We've only played one match! Have you already repressed the memories of our MM? lol.

 

[Purpletuce]

Have you repressed memories? I have beaten you in a game, on the same night as our MM when it was only us two and Ryan I actually managed to 2 stock your falcon, and at low %, although it was late. I've beaten you when you played other characters as well, and I also remember I took a match off of one of your characters (Falco?) with my Fox, which I thought was weird because my fox sucks. We have only played one set I haven't beaten you in a set though.

I'll try to be at next BB, and will be interested to MM.

Oh yeah, and when we messed around some I beat you in some games on the other TV, where Wad, Ben Kyle and Ryan may have been. . . I can't recall exactly who.

If you would like, you can pretend that every match we have played in, you've 4 stocked me. Your opinion of my skill level doesn't really affect me very much.

 

[God with a Wavebird]

Ohhh! I didn't realize you were talking about friendlies. You really shouldn't care so much about those. They're pretty meaningless, especially when it's like 3am. lol

 

[Purpletuce]

I felt like friendlies were equally viable as a way to describe how much my results vary. It isn't like tourney matches are too much different for me, the only real difference is sometimes I have to change how I play based on my opponent, as in if they're going to CG me or something. That being said sometimes I'll try things differently in friendlies, where I might not in tourney, since I'm always trying new things. . .

 

[Lovage]

friendlies mean a lot, but never in a PR discussion. literally ever.

 

[Purpletuce]

I'll go ahead and respectfully disagree. Against Eggz my only tourney match he resigned, and my only MM I can think of he went Mario and it went last game last stock. Using that limited information, it would appear I'm a contender for best in Oregon. Friendlies make it obvious otherwise. . .

 

[God with a Wavebird]

I'll go ahead and respectfully disagree. Against Eggz my only tourney match he resigned, and my only MM I can think of he went Mario and it went last game last stock. Using that limited information, it would appear I'm a contender for best in Oregon. Friendlies make it obvious otherwise. . .

When discussing the PR you should only use money matches and tournament sets to justify your opinions, especially tournament sets. And obviously that means you need to use all relevant sets (this includes your loses).

Eggz dropped out of that tournament because he was wasted and trying to bang some hoe. Why the f*ck would that count towards your PR placement?
And I don't know anything about your MM with Eggz but I'm going to guess that you left out the fact that he was drunk. And if he wasn't, you still LOST the set and it was only against his secondary.
You're also only using your wins as justification for your skill. When you consider the fact that you've lost every set you've had with anyone on the PR it becomes obvious you shouldn't be on the PR, let alone anywhere near the top.

I suppose you're right though. Using limited information does make you look good.

 

[Purpletuce]

I'm not certain if you're serious or not. . . you seem personally offended. My comment was some examples of my limited games against a player, and how my friendlies against them are useful in backing the fact that he is better than me. Simply for pointing out that friendlies can be useful in determining skill.

It isn't so much as limited information making me look bad, as limited information can misrepresent everything.

This whole thing you (and other Eugene people) do where you try to make a big deal out of everything is getting old. My initial comment that started the whole back and forth was me claiming that I've taken some matches (friendlies) off of just about everyone in Oregon as well as lost some to just about everyone in Oregon. I was using this to show that my results vary largely, and that comment was in response to the claim that Oliver can't beat me. I was saying Oliver can beat me. I thought you would like this, as works as more fuel for your Eugene circlejerk, but apparently the idea of me having took a friendly off of you was too upsetting for that.

 

[FoosJr]

friendlies mean a lot, but never in a PR discussion. literally ever.

this. The only thing that counts towards pr is mm and tournament matches.

And I mean real tournament matches not free to enter, no prize money, no one cares about weeklies that Shane and I both entered and I think we both went 0-2

 

[t!MmY]

I hold friendlies in high regards when wagering someone's skill level, but that is because I am very adept at gauging a player's level regardless of whether they win or lose or whether they take the games 'seriously' or not. I can even measure a players 'potential' skill level of how they will progress if they continue to play. I don't necessarily expect anyone else to be able to do this to the same degree as I, so I earnestly understand how and why others would not take friendlies into consideration the same as I.

Also, on a side note, tournament matches and money matches should, by default, be held in higher regard than friendlies. Part of this is because it is because it shows how a player is able to take challenges along with the additional pressures created by a competitive setting, but also because there are records of wins/losses that are created for easy reference. The only thing that thwarts such records is anomalies in play such as forfeits, disqualifications, and other 'outside' disturbances (being drunk, not playing seriously, collusion, etc). In this regard, tournament matches could even be considered less desirable for PR purposes than games of casual play.

 

[God with a Wavebird]

Logan, you were not just “Simply pointing out that friendlies can be useful in determining skill.” Your comment was in response to Lovage's comment. You were "respectfully disagreeing" and arguing that friendlies can be used when discussing the PR. I responded by pointing out how your argument was extremely biased and lacking in logic. I don’t have a vendetta against you. I just think a lot of what you say is wrong, so I end up responding a lot. I’m trying to do it less though because it’s obviously pointless.

F*ck you Foos! You said I should brag hella about beating you in that tournament. I’m telling my grandkids about that sh*t. They’re gonna be like “what the f*ck are you talking about?” and then they’re going to put me in home. All because of you. F*ck you. I vote we take Foos off the friendliness PR and put me as #1.

t!mmy. I agree that using friendlies can give you an idea of how good someone is, but that's it. When it comes to PR decisions friendlies become meaningless. Although you do have a point that some people still sandbag in tournament, e.g. getting drunk.

 

[Purpletuce]

I was talking about where the comments started, not the most recent one. I think playing against somebody in friendlies has merit in finding out your opponent's skill. For example, when I saw a random at best bout and played him in a friendly, I beat him pretty easily. When I had that same random in bracket, I didn't get scared because I had no idea how good he is, I thought I could beat him, because I did before. Huge surprise, things went just as I thought they would. That is an example of me using friendlies to gauge skill. The PR is a ranking of skill.

Obviously friendlies can be considered how a PR. Since the PR is based on competition, it should also be obvious that competitive matches will be more heavily weighted.

Regarding my argument being biased and lacking in logic, it should be obvious that I'm not trying to claim I'm a contender for best in Oregon. It should also be obvious that the entire post was an exercise in logic. I was making a counterpoint to the claim that only MMs and tourney matches should be used to form a PR. The information I provided was what I could think of at the time to make that counterpoint. I'll try to make that point a different way, so that you can understand what I meant.

You say only MMs and tourney matches count toward PR

I challenge you to compare myself to Shane in terms of skill.

Using the claim that only MMs and tourney matches count, you would be inclined to think we are close in skill.

You also know that I am not as good of a player and Shane because he tends to beat players in tourney/MMS who beat me in tourney/MMs.

You can assume Shane would beat me in a match, but tourney/MM record doesn't make that clear.

Friendlies make that clear.

Friendlies can be used to gauge the skill of players.

 

[God with a Wavebird]

I agree with your conclusion. Friendlies can be used to estimate how good someone is. But only vaguely, and they aren't legitimate enough to be used by you or anyone else to make PR decisions. To explain this better let's look at 2 cases.

Case 1: Lets use your example. According to you Shane beats people that beat you, and although it was close, he beat you in that MM. Shane also beats you easily in friendlies. According to you, friendlies make it clear that Shane is better than you. This is a fallacy (I'm pretty sure it's confirmation bias). You're only using your friendlies as evidence because they backup what you already believe.

Case 2: Same situation except lets say Shane sandbags hard and loses whenever you two play friendlies. Everyone would still say he's better than you because he beats people that beat you, he's obviously the best in Oregon since he wins every tournament, and he beat you in a MM. Your friendlies would then be ignored.

See? In case 1 you only use friendlies because they confirm what you already know. In case 2 you ignore them because they contradict what you know. I could've also used the example of that guy you beat in tournament. What if he beat you? What about when you played me? Our friendlies where usually fairly close. But when we MM it wasn't close at all, no offence. I beat Ryan all day last Thursday in friendlies, but he beat me in the tournament LIKE AN ******* <3. I won most of my friendlies vs Ratking but he beat me in our MM. Friendlies just don't hold weight. And if you still don't believe me, please take into account that almost everyone on this thread agrees with me. I mean come on, WOULD FOOS LIE TO YOU!? he's #1 on the friendliness PR for a reason.

 

[AlienAllen]

In general people don't try as hard in friendlies as they would in tournament. There are some exceptions, but tournament matches and MMs are the true test of skill.

 

[wqqqqwrt]

put ****ard above Idc he can beat bird which is something i havent yet done that should be enough also ****ard i will money match you for a dollar next time we meet ive decided

 

[PrimeTaint]

I heard people talk about smash bros on here.

 

[AlienAllen]

I heard people talk about smash bros on here.

You came to the wrong neighborhood.

 

[Purpletuce]

Things aren't really going anywhere. I think I will continue to evaluate players the way I do, and you may continue to do things as you already do.

I like that Eugene is starting to post. Most people in Corvallis are actually from Portland, so Portland and Corvallis usually are familiar with one another, and often post here. I feel like I don't know Eugene very well. . . Makes me feel like the scene is more inclusive.

We can talk about smash. Prime, I heard your edgeguards on spacies are extremely consistent. I didn't see this because edgeguarding Yoshi is silly.

 

[wqqqqwrt]

Things aren't really going anywhere. I think I will continue to evaluate players the way I do, and you may continue to do things as you already do.

I like that Eugene is starting to post. Most people in Corvallis are actually from Portland, so Portland and Corvallis usually are familiar with one another, and often post here. I feel like I don't know Eugene very well. . . Makes me feel like the scene is more inclusive.

We can talk about smash. Prime, I heard your edgeguards on spacies are extremely consistent. I didn't see this because edgeguarding Yoshi is silly.

our scene is exclusively inclusive but you wouldnt know that unless we told you

 

[Binx]

K so I updated it as per foos' PM 3 days ago and forgot to mention it or change the title. Also Kyle if you read this sorry for being such a **** and leaving it as the ratking PR for so long, you are way better than last time I played you, that break did you a lot of good.

Also guys I think we have a lot more people contending for top 10 right now than we have previously, which is a good thing, pretty soon we might not have a choice but to go by brackets and such since there are some people I just haven't ever played against.

So if you don't make the top 10 don't feel too bad cause odds are you aren't too far from being on the list, and 5-10 is so close anyways that even if you would hypothetically be 15th place or something you are still pretty close to 5th probably.

 

[Purpletuce]

Some cosmetics? Also, I still think Nolan should be on here.

Oregon PR 12-19-2012

1) Eggz Hillsboro
2) FoosJr Salem
3) Ratking Portland
4) Binx Gresham
5) Bird Corvallis
6) Alien Beaverton
7) Ryan Portland
8) Adam Eugene
9) Jizzard West Linn
10) Kazuki Corvallis

 

[AlienAllen]

Change my location to Beaverton, I don't live in Corvallis anymore.

 

[Purpletuce]

Fixed. Let me know if I missed something else.

 

[Binx]

OREGON PR! 12/19/2012

PR Rank | Name | Main(s) | Location
1 | Eggz | | Hillsboro
2 | FoosJr | | Salem
3 | Ratking | | Portland
4 | Binx | | Gresham
5 | Bird | | Corvallis
6 | Alien | | Beaverton
7 | Ryan | | Portland
8 | Adam | | Eugene
9 | J i zzard | | West Linn
10 | Kazuki | | Corvallis

There, fixed the PR, made it not ugly

also thinking of posting tournament bracket images in the bottom so people can look at the facts whenever they want
so if people start linking me those, or links to the streams and things then I can keep it updated.

 

[FoosJr]

I'll see what I can do about getting you bracket images from Best Bout tournaments I could at least give you the Challonge links that I used. this is for best bout 15 http://challonge.com/bbs15melee and for 14 http://challonge.com/Bestbout14melee1v1

 

[Binx]

K, linked those 2 under tournament brackets, created a money match section.

If you have a money match and want to post it on here I need you to try and give as much info as you can for accurate placement.

so format should be something like

competitors | dollar amount | set score (winner first) | stages played

so example

Binx vs Gnomeosaurus | $10 | Binx 3-1 | ys, ps*, fd, bf

* means winner lost on that stage, maybe something like that would be good.

 

[Purpletuce]

Wow, both of those looks amazing! Good stuffs.