Orange Star's Hyperactive Whiz Kid! - Andy For Smash Ultimate! We'll Live To Fight Another Day...

[Ura]

Definitely better than Smash Tour.
Although they did keep some of the board game mechanics it seemed.
Is there co-op to it? I can't even remember the whole thing was just a blur to me.

Edit: glad Eagle got a sticker. He's probably one of my favorite COs

Now that you mention it, Spirits is sorta like a cross between Master/Crazy Orders and Event Match. With all the character customization stuff from Smash 4. I think I'll sink my teeth in to it at least initially.

Eagle is one of my favorite CO's to play as so I'm glad he's in Spirits Mode. I think this game should have all the AW1 CO's at least as Spirits (albeit Andy should my theory come true).

Oddly enough, getting spirits for both Eagle and Olaf is one heck of a sign. But perhaps we ought to wait and see if they're just random cameos, or if there's an abnormal number of Advance Wars spirits for a series that just lost its Assist Trophy.

I mean Advance Wars just got two and was features when they first showed Spirits so it's a good sign I think. Even if my theory turns out to be false, I think the idea might be to give Advance Wars a ton of Spirits to compensate losing it's AT. Hopefully with a sweet remix as well.

 

[SPEN18]

Eagle is one of my favorite CO's to play as so I'm glad he's in Spirits Mode

Nothing like wiping out some tanks with a bomber plane. Then activating the CO power and doing it all AGAIN.
Spirits mode really does feel like a mix of all the other singleplayer ideas Sakurai has had in the past. It remains to be seen if that mix ends up being like a tasty bowl of soup or a garbage mess.
And yeah, Andy's Theme is awesome. I listen to it while working sometimes.

DNeon come to think of it the Kirby lore is kinda similar to the Smash lore. Crazy, weird-looking enemies, most of which turn out to be allies in the end. Very little explanation for what's going on during the middle parts of the game, but the bookends make it make some sense.

 

[Ura]

Nothing like wiping out some tanks with a bomber plane. Then activating the CO power and doing it all AGAIN.
Spirits mode really does feel like a mix of all the other singleplayer ideas Sakurai has had in the past. It remains to be seen if that mix ends up being like a tasty bowl of soup or a garbage mess.
And yeah, Andy's Theme is awesome. I listen to it while working sometimes.

Andy's theme is lit and all but Max' theme is my personal favorite in the series. It literally personifies what Advance Wars is all about. High energy, feel good adrenaline when you lay the smackdown on your enemies. God I love this series lol.

Either way, Ultimate needs to have at least one AW track. Sakurai can't do the series even more dirty like that unless the idea is to have Andy as DLC with a bunch of AW tracks.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah it's so weird that most of the songs and other collectibles like the stickers come from series that have playable representatives. Those things are perfect for series that don't have playable characters, but for some reason they want to keep spoiling the rich.
Both GS and AW have really awesome tracks. In the case of GS, we know Motoi Sakuraba is involved in the game, so it'll be really horrible if GS only gets like 2 tracks again.

 

[Ura]

Yeah it's so weird that most of the songs and other collectibles like the stickers come from series that have playable representatives. Those things are perfect for series that don't have playable characters, but for some reason they want to keep spoiling the rich.
Both GS and AW have really awesome tracks. In the case of GS, we know Motoi Sakuraba is involved in the game, so it'll be really horrible if GS only gets like 2 tracks again.

I mean Spirits are being spread throughout all gaming franchises, not just ones without playable representation. Which is a good thing for the series to do otherwise it's limits the most important franchises which are the ones with playable representatives.

Thing is with Golden Sun, they used the Brawl remix when showing off Isaac's AT which makes me think it's only going to be the two from Smash 4 again.

Advance Wars on the other hand IDK. If there is no AW track in game, that can lead credence to my theory and that something is fishy. Or on a more cynical possibility, it means the series is SoL lol. Hopefully not mind you. I think there's too many things lining up against it.

 

[SPEN18]

yeah even though they've revealed almost everything there's still some things where we'll have to wait to get our hands on the game.

 

[Ura]

So I really wanted to get down to the nitty gritty of what I meant when I mentioned my theory. I have a lot to mention so i'm hoping you're all willing to consider the possibility of what i'm saying.

And I should also preface this by saying a lot of what i'm about to say might be reaching but it's still worth noting however seemingly "minor" or "looking in to much to it" you might think it is.

With that, I want to explain why I think Andy could be one of the 5 DLC characters Sakurai mentioned in the Direct with the Infantry & Tanks Assist Trophies now integrated in his moveset. This is a very long post so i'm putting it in spoiler tags to avoid stretching the page too much.

Spoiler

 

[GoodGrief741]

So I really wanted to get down to the nitty gritty of what I meant when I mentioned with my theory. I have a lot to mention so i'm hoping you're all willing to consider the possibility of what i'm saying.

And I should also preface this by saying a lot of what i'm about to say might be reaching but it's still worth noting however seemingly "minor" or "looking in to much to it" you might think it is.

With that, I want to explain why I think Andy could be one of the 5 DLC characters Sakurai mentioned in the Direct with the Infantry & Tanks Assist Trophies now integrated in his moveset. This is a very long post so i'm putting it in spoiler tags to avoid stretching the page too much.

Spoiler

I hope you’re right, but as far as we know Andy is a Spirit and he wasn’t shown yet.

 

[Ura]

I hope you’re right, but as far as we know Andy is a Spirit and he wasn’t shown yet.

I mean yeah that can very well happen but the point I was driving home was that literally every franchise from a series not already playable has their main character as a Spirit in some shape or form.

Or rather, the fact that they were all shown off immediately whereas Andy is the only one left to be shown off. Think about that for a second. Andy is literally the only character out of all those other franchises I mentioned that weren't straight up confirmed to have a spirit in the game when the Advance Wars Assist Trophy went missing after having perfect attendance before.

Like Sakurai made no reservations in showing them all of in this particular Direct rather than leaving the fans guessing on if they're Spirits or not come launch date. And I think that's very telling that Andy didn't show up here whereas everyone else did.

For that reason, I think there's a lot to this then most people might assume. I'm crossing my fingers on Andy not being in Spirits if it means he's coming as DLC. Something is up here and i'm really hoping it means what we all want to believe.

Of course regardless i'm really looking forward to playing Ultimate when it comes out and the game as it is looks great.

 

[SPEN18]

Interesting theory here, to say the least. I think that if the game comes out and we find that a bunch of AW COs are all stickers but not Andy that'll look pretty suspicious. But even if Andy's a sticker I think he would still have a shot. The whole Spirits mode stuff was such a blur; it was honestly hard to keep track of all the characters. This makes it hard to really discern any sort of pattern regarding who was shown off and who wasn't. As in, it wasn't just main characters but also plenty of side characters and third parties as well. But still, one would think that Olaf of all people being in the game would basically confirm that Andy's in there somewhere. So if he's not, then you could be onto something, and if he is, then it doesn't really change much. I definitely think that if Andy were playable he'd have Infantry & Tanks somewhere in his moveset; that said, if the AT was back then it certainly wouldn't disconfirm him, so I'm not sure what its absence could mean. Leak looks false, but at least some leakers are still thinking of our boy Andy.

 

[Ura]

Yo someone keep an eye out if there's any Advance Wars Mii Costumes shown off or if Andy is a Spirit (or on that note any AW CO).

Interesting theory here, to say the least. I think that if the game comes out and we find that a bunch of AW COs are all stickers but not Andy that'll look pretty suspicious. But even if Andy's a sticker I think he would still have a shot. The whole Spirits mode stuff was such a blur; it was honestly hard to keep track of all the characters. This makes it hard to really discern any sort of pattern regarding who was shown off and who wasn't. As in, it wasn't just main characters but also plenty of side characters and third parties as well. But still, one would think that Olaf of all people being in the game would basically confirm that Andy's in there somewhere. So if he's not, then you could be onto something, and if he is, then it doesn't really change much. I definitely think that if Andy were playable he'd have Infantry & Tanks somewhere in his moveset; that said, if the AT was back then it certainly wouldn't disconfirm him, so I'm not sure what its absence could mean. Leak looks false, but at least some leakers are still thinking of our boy Andy.

Yeah the more I think about it Andy being a Spirit here I think doesn't matter as much as we might think. IIRC Daisy was just shown to have a spirit in the livestream they're doing from Japan so the more I think about it, Andy being a Spirit isn't the deathblow.

It's the fact that they deliberately made him the only main series character to not be shown off when showing off every single Nintendo franchise without a playable character. That's a major thing to consider in all of this. Top that off with the missing Assist Trophy (addressed in detail in my big post) and something is not right. That is reason to suspect regardless of what happens next.

Infantry & Tanks don't deconfirm Andy but they're absence is telling as mentioned before. An AT that's linked with a franchise with so much history to Nintendo and had perfect attendance before wouldn't disappear like that. At worst, it'd get overhauled in to something else seeing as Sakurai added a lot of other niche series in to the game (here's looking at you Mario Paint). Makes roughly 0.00% sense to do what he did.

The 4chan leak from December looks to be less real as time goes on but I thought it was worth putting there regardless. Don't put too much stock in to it especially since Wario Land and the Link's Awakening remake never happened. Here's hoping for a miracle tho I guess.

 

[SPEN18]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/all-the-super-smash-bros-ultimate-spirits-so-far-r/1100-6462977/
Welp, according to Gamespot's list you can add Ouendan, Urban Champion, and Chibi-Robo to the list of series main protags appearing in Spirits mode. You might wanna check that this list is correct; I don't know which footage they got their list from and it's definitely not a complete list because Eagle/Olaf and many others aren't on there.

But yeah, basically if he's a Spirit it means nothing but if he is not a Spirit then it could mean everything.

 

[Nauzgo]

I dunno if any of you got this, but but over in the Saki Thread someone noticed a Saki Mii Fighter costume. Imo those costumes all look great this time around so it would be pretty neat to have one based on Andy. With Saki now in the game somehow, Andy's not out of possibility.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Honestly if Mii Gunner got Orange Star combat fatigues I would be more than satisfied. Obviously a CO as one of the DLC characters would blow my mind but I’d just love to see some more AW content in general. Was pleased to see Olaf and Eagle spirits.

 

[Ura]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/all-the-super-smash-bros-ultimate-spirits-so-far-r/1100-6462977/
Welp, according to Gamespot's list you can add Ouendan, Urban Champion, and Chibi-Robo to the list of series main protags appearing in Spirits mode. You might wanna check that this list is correct; I don't know which footage they got their list from and it's definitely not a complete list because Eagle/Olaf and many others aren't on there.

But yeah, basically if he's a Spirit it means nothing but if he is not a Spirit then it could mean everything.

Yeah that list doesn't look comprehensive as it's missing a whole bunch. We'll have to wait for the mega list of Spirits in the game.

I dunno if any of you got this, but but over in the Saki Thread someone noticed a Saki Mii Fighter costume. Imo those costumes all look great this time around so it would be pretty neat to have one based on Andy. With Saki now in the game somehow, Andy's not out of possibility.

I saw that as well. I think that was Sakurai's way of compensating Sin & Punishment fans for not having their Assist Trophy in the game (sucks that they lost their AT as well). And the same deal applies to Chibi-Robo and Custom Robo as well (Ray as well who's AT didn't return from Brawl).

If there isn't any Advance Wars Mii Costume(s), something is very fishy (especially after what I pointed out in my mega post). For better or worse...

Honestly if Mii Gunner got Orange Star combat fatigues I would be more than satisfied. Obviously a CO as one of the DLC characters would blow my mind but I’d just love to see some more AW content in general. Was pleased to see Olaf and Eagle spirits.

I would be really happy as well with a Mii Costume. At least Sakurai isn't doing away with the series as a whole.

And if DLC was the end goal, then not having a Mii Costume or Assist Trophy more than makes up for not having either of those. I think we can all agree on that lol.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah maybe if Andy were DLC then they could make a Sami Mii Costume for the people who may have wanted her instead. A Max costume would look so weird because afaik you can't enlarge your mii's biceps lol

 

[Ura]

Yeah maybe if Andy were DLC then they could make a Sami Mii Costume for the people who may have wanted her instead. A Max costume would look so weird because afaik you can't enlarge your mii's biceps lol

Yeah def a Sami Mii Costume. I low key hoped she'd be an Assist Trophy but that's not happening obv. Hopefully that can happen if Andy by some miracle became a DLC fighter.

Better yet, you can add both Sami and Will as Mii Costumes. Sami being the popular choice other than Andy and Will representing the darker Advance Wars game.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Anyone surprised that there has been no Advance Wars music in Smash, while another less popular Intelligent Systems series Panel de Pon has at least gotten one song? Lip's Theme (Panel de Pon) was a remix since brawl and Lip has been referenced since Melee as Kirby's Garbage Block transformation and the Lip's Stick item. Lip finally appears in the series as an Assist Spirit and a Mii Outfit (which has gotten a little bit of screen time in the direct.) Then again, it might be because Sakurai has confirmed his affection for Panel de Pon, I'm not sure about Advance Wars. Panel de Pon seems to gotten almost equal representation in Brawl compared to Advance Wars with the sticker count: Furil, Sala, Pure, Cecil and Panel. While Advance Wars got: Andy, Max, Sami, Jake, Rachel, and Hawke.

Its sad to see that the Infantry and Tanks assist trophy to be removed, despite The Frog For Whom the Bell Tolls still keeping the Prince Sable assist trophy but at least some Advance Wars CO's will appear as Spirits.

Panel de Pon also seems to get a bit of attention by Intelligent Systems since 2016 with the ACPL Minigame/Lip outfit, Panel de Pon's inclusion on the Japanese SFC Mini with Fire Emblem in 2017 and now the Mii Outfit for Lip in 2018.

Will Advance Wars at least get the attention like what Panel de Pon has gotten by Intelligent Systems? At least they had said something about Advance Wars' hiatus. A Mii outfit will surely help the Advance Wars series a lot in Smash and if they ever make a new game.
I do support Andy for Smash, despite not playing the Advance Wars series.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Prediction; We'll see an Advance War Costume.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I saw that as well. I think that was Sakurai's way of compensating Sin & Punishment fans for not having their Assist Trophy in the game (sucks that they lost their AT as well). And the same deal applies to Chibi-Robo and Custom Robo as well (Ray as well who's AT didn't return from Brawl).

For S&P, I'm not shocked, seeing as Treasure does the bare minimum these days (granted, they did bring back Ikaruga). At this point asking for Marina Liteyears is downright impossible, though I'd like to be wrong.

 

[Ura]

Anyone surprised that there has been no Advance Wars music in Smash, while another less popular Intelligent Systems series Panel de Pon has at least gotten one song? Lip's Theme (Panel de Pon) was a remix since brawl and Lip has been referenced since Melee as Kirby's Garbage Block transformation and the Lip's Stick item. Lip finally appears in the series as an Assist Spirit and a Mii Outfit (which has gotten a little bit of screen time in the direct.) Then again, it might be because Sakurai has confirmed his affection for Panel de Pon, I'm not sure about Advance Wars. Panel de Pon seems to gotten almost equal representation in Brawl compared to Advance Wars with the sticker count: Furil, Sala, Pure, Cecil and Panel. While Advance Wars got: Andy, Max, Sami, Jake, Rachel, and Hawke.

Its sad to see that the Infantry and Tanks assist trophy to be removed, despite The Frog For Whom the Bell Tolls still keeping the Prince Sable assist trophy but at least some Advance Wars CO's will appear as Spirits.

Panel de Pon also seems to get a bit of attention by Intelligent Systems since 2016 with the ACPL Minigame/Lip outfit, Panel de Pon's inclusion on the Japanese SFC Mini with Fire Emblem in 2017 and now the Mii Outfit for Lip in 2018.

Will Advance Wars at least get the attention like what Panel de Pon has gotten by Intelligent Systems? At least they had said something about Advance Wars' hiatus. A Mii outfit will surely help the Advance Wars series a lot in Smash and if they ever make a new game.
I do support Andy for Smash, despite not playing the Advance Wars series.

Did they show off the full selection of Misc music tracks? I mean if Advance Wars isn't there it's either a really bad thing or a really good thing.

You'd think Sakurai would be all for giving Advance Wars a lot of love given him being a big Fire Emblem fan huh? I really wonder what he thinks about the series. Hopefully he doesn't secretly hate it lol.

I mentioned that in my category for the Advance Wars assist trophy. How all these obscure characters get in/return as AT's but Advance Wars is cut is mind-boggling unless it meant Andy as a playable fighter. Again, either a very bad thing or a very good thing if Andy is DLC.

Intelligent Systems needs to do something with Advance Wars otherwise we're going to continue to get shafted in Nintendo crossovers like Smash. It really sucks.

Prediction; We'll see an Advance War Costume.

I mean there has to be if Sakurai cuts the AT and gives all the other niche series an AT or Mii Costume. Hopefully we get an Infantry Mii Costume based on the Orange Star units.

For S&P, I'm not shocked, seeing as Treasure does the bare minimum these days (granted, they did bring back Ikaruga). At this point asking for Marina Liteyears is downright impossible, though I'd like to be wrong.

Treasure is going through financial difficulties last I heard.

I'm not sure who Marina Liteyears is tho lol.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Treasure is going through financial difficulties last I heard.

I'm not sure who Marina Liteyears is tho lol.

MC of Mischief Makers on the N64, a (very) low-key newcomer want.

 

[Ura]

MC of Mischief Makers on the N64, a (very) low-key newcomer want.

Ahh I heard that series name before but I have no idea what it is.

And we all know series from the N64-GCN era don't exist in Sakurai's mind anyways lol (feels bad for Advance Wars and Golden Sun).

 

[SPEN18]

And we all know series from the N64-GCN era don't exist in Sakurai's mind anyways lol (feels bad for Advance Wars and Golden Sun).

Yeah pretty much. Ppl will point out Animal Crossing and Pikmin, but Animal Crossing gets representation mostly for its recent popularity (see: Isabelle being picked over Tom Nook), and Pikmin you could say is just there because it was a Miyamoto creation. Sakurai's idea of a throwback obviously doesn't go back to this era.

Did they show off the full selection of Misc music tracks? I mean if Advance Wars isn't there it's either a really bad thing or a really good thing.

Afaik, they haven't shown off the whole Misc section of Music. They showed the very top portion of it in the August direct, but it seemed to be sorted chronologically and they didn't scroll down enough to see if there were any tracks from GS/AW. They haven't shown any more of that music since then, at least to my knowledge.

 

[Ura]

So someone in the Smash General thread pointed a huge detail in the Japanese Direct that wasn't included in the English one.

Apparently all 5 DLC characters were characters that couldn't make the base roster.

Do you guys think Andy might have been intended to make the base roster with the Infantry & Tanks in his moveset? Like a psuedo-retro as I mentioned many times before.

I mean it's possible given how jarring the removal of the Infantry & Tanks is and how the AT had perfect attendance before.

Don't want to get everyone's hopes up but I think there's a chance.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

So someone in the Smash General thread pointed a huge detail in the Japanese Direct that wasn't included in the English one.

Apparently all 5 DLC characters were characters that couldn't make the base roster.

Do you guys think Andy might have been intended to make the base roster with the Infantry & Tanks in his moveset? Like a psuedo-retro as I mentioned many times before.

I mean it's possible given how jarring the removal of the Infantry & Tanks is and how the AT had perfect attendance before.

Don't want to get everyone's hopes up but I think there's a chance.

Not that I don't believe you; but can you show me where that's said? :o

 

[Ura]

Not that I don't believe you; but can you show me where that's said? :o

Someone mentioned that in the Smash General thread. It's the part where Sakurai is discussing the details about the DLC characters.

If I get a direct quote and/or timestamp, I'll share it with y'all.

I just want to believe this means good things for our boy.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Someone mentioned that in the Smash General thread. It's the part where Sakurai is discussing the details about the DLC characters.

If I get a direct quote and/or timestamp, I'll share it with y'all.

I just want to believe this means good things for our boy.

It means good things for a LOT of boy's tbh

 

[SPEN18]

So someone in the Smash General thread pointed a huge detail in the Japanese Direct that wasn't included in the English one.

Apparently all 5 DLC characters were characters that couldn't make the base roster.

Do you guys think Andy might have been intended to make the base roster with the Infantry & Tanks in his moveset? Like a psuedo-retro as I mentioned many times before.

I mean it's possible given how jarring the removal of the Infantry & Tanks is and how the AT had perfect attendance before.

Don't want to get everyone's hopes up but I think there's a chance.

But if this is true, it would honestly be a bit puzzling to me as an Isaac supporter. Like, you're telling me that in addition to the 6 we already got, there were 5 more characters that were intended for base that were higher priority than him? Seems off, unless Isaac is one of those 5.
In terms of Andy, though, it could be good. To those who don't know the character, he would seem like a kind of wacky, "out there" kind of choice that I think ppl would find really interesting. If the DLC chars were planned for base, I could see why Sakurai would go for Andy.
I think I saw Verge spoke up as well. He doubled down on the Square rep and Minecraft content, and then he seemed to suggest that Steve and Katalina from Granblue were very likely. I'll take the theory you mentioned over these three any day.

 

[Ura]

But if this is true, it would honestly be a bit puzzling to me as an Isaac supporter. Like, you're telling me that in addition to the 6 we already got, there were 5 more characters that were intended for base that were higher priority than him? Seems off, unless Isaac is one of those 5.
In terms of Andy, though, it could be good. To those who don't know the character, he would seem like a kind of wacky, "out there" kind of choice that I think ppl would find really interesting. If the DLC chars were planned for base, I could see why Sakurai would go for Andy.
I think I saw Verge spoke up as well. He doubled down on the Square rep and Minecraft content, and then he seemed to suggest that Steve and Katalina from Granblue were very likely. I'll take the theory you mentioned over these three any day.

Well actually I want to just mention that Verge never said anything about his sources having Katalina over even Steve. What he said is that his sources usually collaborate with the other guy who mentioned those characters and that he himself had only heard of Minecraft content in Smash Ultimate but not an actual character just yet. And he never heard anything about Katalina in Smash Bros.

For all we know it could be Banjo that comes with a set of Minecraft Mii Costumes (lets face it that's the only thing kids are going to be interested in). As for Katalina, IIRC the guy said Nintendo is negotiating with the company she's from so it's likely that she'll be one of the last characters added in should she be in the game at all. Until Verge confirms this i'll only see her as likely and not a "shoe-in" per se.

A Square Enix character seems to be confirmed by just about every single source out there and after the Direct, I expect it to be Sora. IIRC the room Sakurai was in had dice blocks just sort of there so maybe that was a hint at Kingdom Hearts being in Smash.

So with that, we have like 3 out of the 5 characters that we have a good idea of and the other 2 are a mystery.

- Sora (Maybe Geno or a Dragon Quest character)
- Banjo or Steve (please be Banjo lol)
- Katalina
- Character #4
- Character #5

With that, there's two spots available and I can see one of them being filled by another Ballot heavy hitter that couldn't make the roster on time (i.e. your Bandana Dee's, Rayman's, Shantae's of the world. Maybe even an Isaac AT promotion if we're very lucky).

The other I can easily see going to a character that isn't exactly someone with major name recognition or even popularity but someone who brings a moveset that's completely nothing like anyone on the roster. Which is exactly what Andy would bring. His unique fund based gimmick of managing funds to buy units would make him insanely fun to play as. Imagine if Sakurai pulls out all the GBA units from Advance Wars and makes most of them apart of Andy's moveset. Even to someone that knows nothing about Advance Wars or Andy himself, they'd fall in love with a moveset like that. And like you said, Andy is such an out there choice that would really grab the attention of any casual Smash fan and would do wonders for bringing back Advance Wars to the spotlight.

Maybe Sakurai wanted this for the base roster but couldn't due to time restraints (hard pressed to think why the Infantry & Tanks AT disappeared. Furthermore, 2018 was the 30th anniversary of Famicom Wars so it stands to reason that he could have been added but was low priority). And now with DLC he has an opportunity to do so and really sink his teeth in to the fund-based system Andy would bring.

Food for thought. And again I apologize if i'm getting people's hopes up here too much. I don't want to be the guy that says all these wonderful things only for DLC to go without a trace of Andy. I just think there's a possibility and one that we shouldn't ignore.

 

[SPEN18]

Well actually I want to just mention that Verge never said anything about his sources having Katalina over even Steve. What he said is that his sources usually collaborate with the other guy who mentioned those characters and that he himself had only heard of Minecraft content in Smash Ultimate but not an actual character just yet. And he never heard anything about Katalina in Smash Bros.

For all we know it could be Banjo that comes with a set of Minecraft Mii Costumes (lets face it that's the only thing kids are going to be interested in). As for Katalina, IIRC the guy said Nintendo is negotiating with the company she's from so it's likely that she'll be one of the last characters added in should she be in the game at all. Until Verge confirms this i'll only see her as likely and not a "shoe-in" per se.

A Square Enix character seems to be confirmed by just about every single source out there and after the Direct, I expect it to be Sora. IIRC the room Sakurai was in had dice blocks just sort of there so maybe that was a hint at Kingdom Hearts being in Smash.

So with that, we have like 3 out of the 5 characters that we have a good idea of and the other 2 are a mystery.

- Sora (Maybe Geno or a Dragon Quest character)
- Banjo or Steve (please be Banjo lol)
- Katalina
- Character #4
- Character #5

With that, there's two spots available and I can see one of them being filled by another Ballot heavy hitter that couldn't make the roster on time (i.e. your Bandana Dee's, Rayman's, Shantae's of the world. Maybe even an Isaac AT promotion if we're very lucky).

The other I can easily see going to a character that isn't exactly someone with major name recognition or even popularity but someone who brings a moveset that's completely nothing like anyone on the roster. Which is exactly what Andy would bring. His unique fund based gimmick of managing funds to buy units would make him insanely fun to play as. Imagine if Sakurai pulls out all the GBA units from Advance Wars and makes most of them apart of Andy's moveset. Even to someone that knows nothing about Advance Wars or Andy himself, they'd fall in love with a moveset like that. And like you said, Andy is such an out there choice that would really grab the attention of any casual Smash fan and would do wonders for bringing back Advance Wars to the spotlight.

Maybe Sakurai wanted this for the base roster but couldn't due to time restraints (hard pressed to think why the Infantry & Tanks AT disappeared. Furthermore, 2018 was the 30th anniversary of Famicom Wars so it stands to reason that he could have been added but was low priority). And now with DLC he has an opportunity to do so and really sink his teeth in to the fund-based system Andy would bring.

Food for thought. And again I apologize if i'm getting people's hopes up here too much. I don't want to be the guy that says all these wonderful things only for DLC to go without a trace of Andy. I just think there's a possibility and one that we shouldn't ignore.

Yeah ik it was the other dude, not Vergeben, who brought up Steve and Katalina. It makes me a little worried that Verge even bothered to comment on those other leaks, but yeah, I'm still not taking anything he says as confirmed. IMO if they don't promote any assists, then the only ballot chars with a real chance seem to be Banjo and Geno. I suppose characters like Dixie, Bandana Dee, Shantae, and Paper Mario could be options, but based on everything we've seen and heard so far I don't think that any of those picks would move the needle for Sakurai. Rayman or Lloyd could get in (out of all the third parties these would probably be my personal picks; I'm pretty picky when it comes to third parties in general as I prefer Nintendo characters to be in Smash before most of them). However, both of those would be more due to Ubisoft's buddy-buddy relationship with Nintendo and Bamco working on Smash, rather than be picked from the ballot. So there could easily be another first-party surprise character in there. Could be Advance Wars. Could also be something else like Rhythm Heaven. Maybe even a retro like Mach Rider or something even more obscure like Ouendan, but probably not.

 

[Ura]

Yeah ik it was the other dude, not Vergeben, who brought up Steve and Katalina. It makes me a little worried that Verge even bothered to comment on those other leaks, but yeah, I'm still not taking anything he says as confirmed. IMO if they don't promote any assists, then the only ballot chars with a real chance seem to be Banjo and Geno. I suppose characters like Dixie, Bandana Dee, Shantae, and Paper Mario could be options, but based on everything we've seen and heard so far I don't think that any of those picks would move the needle for Sakurai. Rayman or Lloyd could get in (out of all the third parties these would probably be my personal picks; I'm pretty picky when it comes to third parties in general as I prefer Nintendo characters to be in Smash before most of them). However, both of those would be more due to Ubisoft's buddy-buddy relationship with Nintendo and Bamco working on Smash, rather than be picked from the ballot. So there could easily be another first-party surprise character in there. Could be Advance Wars. Could also be something else like Rhythm Heaven. Maybe even a retro like Mach Rider or something even more obscure like Ouendan, but probably not.

Right. Until Verge backs up the claims of Steve being in the game himself and not just "Minecraft content", i'm not taking that as gospel and i'm holding out hope for Banjo. Same deal with Katalina.

The difference between Advance Wars and all those other niche series is how much history it has and how significant it played a role in Fire Emblem's success today. I mean the only franchise that really compares here is Rhythm Heaven because of the DS game that sold millions (Golden Sun as well but it's stuck in AT limbo unfortunately).

And I hate to sound biased and all given how much I want Andy in the game but I think the moveset he brings to Smash is much more unique than any other of those franchises would bring. It's practically unheard of to have a fighter that spawns units through funds and can use them for stage control, close-quarters combat, and all kinds of other things. Easily the stand out moveset of Ultimate should Andy be included.

 

[SPEN18]

The difference between Advance Wars and all those other niche series is how much history it has and how significant it played a role in Fire Emblem's success today. I mean the only franchise that really compares here is Rhythm Heaven because of the DS game that sold millions (Golden Sun as well but it's stuck in AT limbo unfortunately).

And I hate to sound biased and all given how much I want Andy in the game but I think the moveset he brings to Smash is much more unique than any other of those franchises would bring. It's practically unheard of to have a fighter that spawns units through funds and can use them for stage control, close-quarters combat, and all kinds of other things. Easily the stand out moveset of Ultimate should Andy be included.

Yeah Rhythm Heaven also seems like a Sakurai choice. I find the Chorus Kids and Karate Joe to be likeable characters, but I admittedly haven't played Rhythm Heaven so their inclusion wouldn't be nearly as hype as Andy. Hopefully Sakurai sees the history of AW. Just because it wasn't the biggest game back in the 80s doesn't mean it wasn't there. And Sakurai obviously appreciates Fire Emblem; I don't know why Advance Wars wouldn't be in his mind somewhere. Of course, Advance Wars has a MUCH different feel than Fire Emblem so maybe Sakurai just likes the fantasy and character relationship vibes of FE. Who knows, man. I think the Ice Climbers are kinda the elephant in the room; they were picked pretty much solely for being the most realizable "retro" character at the time of Melee, but even though almost 20 years have passed since then Sakurai's idea of "retro" hasn't seemed to change at all. Backwards.

 

[Ura]

Yeah Rhythm Heaven also seems like a Sakurai choice. I find the Chorus Kids and Karate Joe to be likeable characters, but I admittedly haven't played Rhythm Heaven so their inclusion wouldn't be nearly as hype as Andy. Hopefully Sakurai sees the history of AW. Just because it wasn't the biggest game back in the 80s doesn't mean it wasn't there. And Sakurai obviously appreciates Fire Emblem; I don't know why Advance Wars wouldn't be in his mind somewhere. Of course, Advance Wars has a MUCH different feel than Fire Emblem so maybe Sakurai just likes the fantasy and character relationship vibes of FE. Who knows, man. I think the Ice Climbers are kinda the elephant in the room; they were picked pretty much solely for being the most realizable "retro" character at the time of Melee, but even though almost 20 years have passed since then Sakurai's idea of "retro" hasn't seemed to change at all. Backwards.

Yeah RH might have their time in Smash 4 but that never happened. I wonder if they were planned for Ultimate as well.

I also theorized that maybe Andy could have been this game's retro but didn't make the roster. If by some miracle he's in the game's code once the game drops in December, i'm going to be super excited. Would also line up with what I mentioned with the mysterious absence of Infantry & Tanks as well as Andy not being shown as a spirit.

 

[SPEN18]

But with Customs not returning in Ultimate, it makes the logo's presence that much more confusing. I wonder if this really was a hint at something. Probably not but still.

Probably not an intentional hint. But maybe an unintentional hint.

I also theorized that maybe Andy could have been this game's retro but didn't make the roster. If by some miracle he's in the game's code once the game drops in December, i'm going to be super excited. Would also line up with what I mentioned with the mysterious absence of Infantry & Tanks as well as Andy not being shown as a spirit.

Then again, Rhythm Heaven seemed to have code in 4 iirc. Being planned and cut doesn't guarantee that he'd be DLC, but I agree if Advance Wars has a bunch of unused code then Andy suddenly becomes much more likely, especially if our idea of DLC being already planned and including cut base roster characters is true.

 

[Ura]

Probably not an intentional hint. But maybe an unintentional hint.



Then again, Rhythm Heaven seemed to have code in 4 iirc. Being planned and cut doesn't guarantee that he'd be DLC, but I agree if Advance Wars has a bunch of unused code then Andy suddenly becomes much more likely, especially if our idea of DLC being already planned and including cut base roster characters is true.

Dude even if Andy was scrapped, I would be super happy that he was considered in a playable capacity and that would mean great things if we really pushed for our boy as DLC.

As a matter of fact, it would make it the only known time that this series was considered in that role ever if it were true.

I know there's a good chance I'm setting myself up for disappointment here but I'm going to be super anxious when the data miners do their thing come December lol.

 

[SPEN18]

Dude even if Andy was scrapped, I would be super happy that he was considered in a playable capacity and that would mean great things if we really pushed for our boy as DLC.

As a matter of fact, it would make it the only known time that this series was considered in that role ever if it were true.

I know there's a good chance I'm setting myself up for disappointment here but I'm going to be super anxious when the data miners do their thing come December lol.

yeah just wanted to point that stuff out. I agree that even if Andy was scrapped completely for this game it would mean a ton. Chorus Kids being leaked by Gematsu and then RH being found in the datamine really increased their support and community awareness. Same could happen for Andy if this is the case, and that extra support would be a huge boon both for DLC and a hypothetical Smash 6.

 

[Ura]

yeah just wanted to point that stuff out. I agree that even if Andy was scrapped completely for this game it would mean a ton. Chorus Kids being leaked by Gematsu and then RH being found in the datamine really increased their support and community awareness. Same could happen for Andy if this is the case, and that extra support would be a huge boon both for DLC and a hypothetical Smash 6.

And if that were to happen, it'd finally mean that people would start talking about Advance Wars in a Smash Bros context. Something that this series desperately needs.

I mean there's so many people who love this series and rave about it but they never consider the potential it has being represented with a fighter in Smash Bros. That's something that needs to change and Andy being found in the coding (theoretically speaking) would finally get those discussions going.

I mean hell, even if we didn't get Andy as DLC just having that would be a major victory for us. Knowing that there is a possibility of having the franchise represented in Smash. And would give great incentive to push hard for him in whatever new Smash comes after this or maybe even a DLC Season 2 if that happens.

 

[SPEN18]

yeah I think a lot of people just don't see the potential in the moveset. I've heard some people say it would be weird to have a CO fight because they don't actually fight in the games, and then dismiss the idea entirely.

 

[Ura]

yeah I think a lot of people just don't see the potential in the moveset. I've heard some people say it would be weird to have a CO fight because they don't actually fight in the games, and then dismiss the idea entirely.

Which I feel is a moot argument to make given how both C. Falcon and Fox fight despite not being shown to do that in their own series. And at least in Andy's case, he'd be using a moveset that mostly reflects his series (buying units to fight for him) even if Sakurai would be taking creative liberties with his wrench attacks.

Hence why getting the series discussed in a Smash context would be huge for us. Imagine getting Andy talked about on the same level as Isaac.