opponents best options out of f-tilt *discussing Snake*

[saviorslegacy]

The other day I was playing a friend online. He was Bowser and I of course was Sheik. I hate online so I was just messing around with the f-tilt mainly. I got him to about 35% and then went at it. I f-tilt locked him to the point where I needed to end it with Uair or Nair. Instead of ending it I shielded. He performed his upB and I simply walked over to where he was and f-tilt locked him again. I didn't end it the second time and he performed Nair. I shielded it and f-tilt lock him a third time but this time I ended it with USmash.
That got me thinkin, maybe we can use our f-tilt as a sort of tech chase. People always are mashing something to get out, just what exactly is that something?
So that is why I am making this thread. We are going to look at the opponents best option while they are getting f-tilt locked. Usually it is a Nair, an upB, a nade (Snake lol) or something generic like an air dodge or jumping.
Let the punishment discussion begin!



Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

upB
*counter*
shield and follow


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

*notes*
Not worth caring about since you can't really f-tilt lock him....


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

upB
*counter*
shield and follow


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

upB
shield and follow



Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt



bite
*counter*
jump> air dodge> DI behind> f-tilt


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


lol


just use f-tilt lock


just use f-tilt lock


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


downB
*counter*
shield and follow


Fair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


DON'T F-TILT LOCK!!!


Bair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


Nair/Bair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

upB
*counter*
You really can't counter it with f-tilt. Use another option.

*notes*
It is almost always a better idea to end with a grab and GR him.
rating- 1/5


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


whistle
*counter*
Think smart and predict his move after counter. You can possible punish with f-tilt.


just use f-tilt lock



just use f-tilt lock


just use f-tilt lock


lol?


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt



sh*t



Nair/Bair/Fair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

*notes* Be aware that he can DI behind you while Fairing/Bairing. It might be smarter to end with a grab to GR him.


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


lol


Dair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt


It will not work.....


Nair/Fair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

upB
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

Counter
*counter*
Don't take any action until it is finished. You can grab if you want to.


Counter
*counter*
Don't take any action until it is finished. You can grab if you want to.


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

*notes* You can grounded GR> f-tilt. So if you want to take a chance you can end with a grab.


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

*notes* You can grounded GR> f-tilt. So if you want to take a chance you can end with a grab.


upB
*counter*
shield and attempt to punish his landing


nade
*counter*
grab> bthrow> grab grenade> throw at Snake> success


Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

upB
*counter*
shield and attempt to follow up








This is very rough and kinda throw together quickly. We should discuss each character further and jumps/air dodges. I would then like to see how many times you must counter an opponent until they are at f-tilt> USmash percents.

 

[-Mars-]

This topic is cool I guess. Everyone should know most of this by now.

O yea Charizard can up b out of ftilt so you probably shouldnt put him at lol.

 

[Judo777]

i thought of using this idea about a month ago i have played around with it some.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I plan on kicking things into over drive after finals. Anyone willing to help contribute to ma research?

 

[thexsunrosered]

I figured this was what you were supposed to do after ftilt >.>
when I need to stale it I normally ftilt twice, follow their AD away or their jump and just do it again, walk away, follow and do it again lol

 

[saviorslegacy]

I figured this was what you were supposed to do after ftilt >.>
when I need to stale it I normally ftilt twice, follow their AD away or their jump and just do it again, walk away, follow and do it again lol

You main/use Ganon so this is understandable. Most Sheiks however end with DSmash, u-tilt, Nair or Fair most of the time.

 

[thexsunrosered]

lol I guess that makes sense haha

 

[saviorslegacy]

Nair
*counter*
shield and f-tilt

upB
*counter*
You really can't counter it with f-tilt. Use another option.

*notes*
It is almost always a better idea to end with a grab and GR him.

Alright, lets kick this discussion into gear.
We are starting with MK. So please comment and give your opinion. As you can see, mine is already given.

 

[Judo777]

MK's best options out of an ftilt is nair as you said, up b as you said BUT also and this is probably his best bet a good amount of the time Dair. Dair is not much slower than nair but it is way safer which is big for MKs. The main issue with dair is that it ends quick enough for MK to do it again before he hits the ground and this will hurt our tactic alot. He can also Dair > jump > Dair again which is hard to punish. Dair doesn't easily have a counter at least using this tactic. As you said ur best bet IMO is to go for a grab if you can or just end it with like utilt. Regardless MK is not a very good character to try this tactic on.

Also actually depending on his height and which way he does it you actually can ftilt MK again out of this. Remember if u are under MK's glide trajectory hes actually very vulnerable. If you are infront of MK's glide trajectory remember ftilt can clank with glide attack which is then another free ftilt.

 

[thexsunrosered]

don't forget about ducking too. If you expect an mk to dair, you can can ftilt-> duck under the dair-> ftilt

 

[saviorslegacy]

that's actually a really good idea. I'll remember that.

 

[Tristan_win]

don't forget about ducking too. If you expect an mk to dair, you can can ftilt-> duck under the dair-> ftilt

Can you really do that? Meta knight dair has some pretty insane range and ducking takes 4 frames which is exactly how long it takes for meta knight to dair...Although I guess he would be di up so he wouldn't be able to be frame perfect in the first place. Still I'll imagine since meta knight has multiple jumps he would just spam jump to get out as fast as he could. I'm not 100% sure but I think it only takes 2 frames to 2nd jump so he'll start to gain altitude if your not frame perfect and since that's the best option he would most likely be spamming that over nair or dair.

^_^ Please correct me if I'm wrong because it's been a while since I thought about this.


Oh something that would make this thread more awesome would be listing more then just grab and Ftilt but all of the options.

 

[saviorslegacy]

The thread has hardly begun. Give it some time and things will slowly become more organized and such. I might include full size pictures to try and stop this thread from becoming a wall of text.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

MK can really do almost anything.

He may be able to Uair as well as his usual Nair, Shuttle Loop, and Dair. I'll test with Redhalberd some but he also might be able to use Fair as well. Stupid fast aerials........ugh

Because MK has multiple jumps, he can also just jump away and get back into his zone as long as he SDIs well.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Alright, lets just agree that it is pretty much a bad idea to do this against MK. He has to many options and can punish hard if we predict the wrong one.

IMO, MK gets a 1 out of 5 rating.

 

[Judo777]

Alright, lets just agree that it is pretty much a bad idea to do this against MK. He has to many options and can punish hard if we predict the wrong one.

IMO, MK gets a 1 out of 5 rating.

agreed, MK really is the worst character to try this on. However this is a good idea on many other characters.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Sorry for not updating it earlier.
Alright, please comment on Snake!


I have mixed opinions about Snake. He can't perform an aerials to get out, his only option is to mash B. A grenade completely ruins this since it will blow up. It takes to long to grab it and throw it away so your only option is to end the lock.
The best option is to grab him> bthrow> throw grenade at him.
Yeah, we can use his own combo. DI plays a big part here, but if you time it right you can toss his own grenade at him.