Only One Smash Game Will Finish On Sunday At Evo 2015

[DorkCube]

I'm not sure where the myth of the "random unknown who has never been to a tournament or been seen on Netplay but could somehow JV5 Mango" keeps coming from. The only time I've ever seen something even remotely close to this happen is in Smash 64.

Smasher74X did it to Matts

 

[Beach]

I hope it's Melee! Despite playing both Melee and Smash 4, Melee is by far, at least in my opinion, the more entertaining to watch because of all the tech and the overall speed and combo game.

 

[SSBM_HypnoToad]

It better be Melee tbh. Melee is faster, less campy, more competitive, more impressive, and most importantly, more entertaining to watch. If we want the FGC to take us seriously, it's best we play Melee.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Smasher74X did it to Matts

Did MATTS! remember to thank him afterward?

 

[kinbobbobkin]

I hope it's Smash 4, cause it needs to shine and to be proven to put back again in future tourneys.

 

[Ur2Slow]

S***storm between the smash community will commence! I hope it's smash 4, but I can only see melee (it has a higher following, the twitch chat will be cancer if not)

 

[Spazzy]

I hope it's Smash 4, cause it needs to shine and to be proven to put back again in future tourneys.

The problem with Smash 4 is that the combos are not 0 to deaths and it's not as fast paced. Sure, it might be competitive and all, but it'll always be a slow paced game.

 

[SoniCraft]

If I know this community, it's going to be Melee.

If I know Nintendo, it's going to be Sm4sh.

 

[Laggalot101]

I don't think I know as much about what is going on here as most people - I just know that EVO is a massive tournament and that's about where my knowledge ends - so I'm probably going to make myself seem a bit silly, but can someone explain to me what all the fuss is about? What is there to potentially cause a rift? I'm not entirely sure I understand (actually, I'm pretty sure I don't). Is this about the day on which each Smash game is played? And if so, why is this such a big deal? I don't get it.

 

[Wardray]

i dont care which game makes it, im hyped for watching both melee and smash 4

 

[SoniCraft]

I don't think I know as much about what is going on here as most people - I just know that EVO is a massive tournament and that's about where my knowledge ends - so I'm probably going to make myself seem a bit silly, but can someone explain to me what all the fuss is about? What is there to potentially cause a rift? I'm not entirely sure I understand (actually, I'm pretty sure I don't). Is this about the day on which each Smash game is played? And if so, why is this such a big deal? I don't get it.

Well Sunday is the Final Day, so if some people couldn't watch the other two days of the event, you can bet your booty they'll be watching it on Sunday. Because of this, whichever game is put on the main stage Sunday, that game will get more exposure, and could possibly be seen as the "better game". Whichever game does make it to Sunday, there could be a lot of players form the other game who get extremely salty. This could cause a bunch of fighting between the communities on which game is better, more competitively viable, liked more, etc, causing a separation between the two game communities.

 

[Gawain]

From the perspective of someone who mostly plays non smash fighters, this is a good thing. Whether this community can admit it or not, ALL Smash games take longer to run in tournament than other fighters. Evo is about other fighters more than Smash. Be respectful and glad that you get to have two games on the main floor this year. Smash takes too much time to have both on Sunday.

That being said, I personally think it should be Melee, as the game has already proven that it is worth having on that slot at least every now and then. Smash 4 can prove it on Sunday, where the risk isn't as high.

 

[kinbobbobkin]

The problem with Smash 4 is that the combos are not 0 to deaths and it's not as fast paced. Sure, it might be competitive and all, but it'll always be a slow paced game.

I think that's the problem, Melee is Melee is what Smash 4 is to Smash 4. They're two different games and with different mechanics, Melee is fast pace and offensive while Smash 4 is more strategical and more on defense. If you expect one game to be the other, you'll be disappointed. Also you may be surprised that I've seen some games where there's much movement, not Melee like but still somewhat enjoyable to watch.

 

[Laggalot101]

*snip*

So if I understand correctly, the point is that the Sunday will draw more viewers than the other and people believe that whichever game is play on Sunday is, as such, considered the 'superior' game or something to that effect?

I don't know, from my probably ignorant perspective I just think it's a little silly. As others have said, the amount of entries each game achieved is worth something in its own right and I think that all the Smash Communities should be celebrating that together, and that Smash as a whole is developing the way it is.

 

[MasterIcarus7 (SHADE)]

I have to say it, it will be melee, just so when the intro hype trailer starts, it can say "Super Smash Bros. Melee, 4th year at EVO"

 

[Batousai]

It better be Melee tbh. Melee is faster, less campy, more competitive, more impressive, and most importantly, more entertaining to watch. If we want the FGC to take us seriously, it's best we play Melee.

The FGC didn't take Melee seriously, over the 14 years of its existence and plenty of time on main stage.

What makes you think that Melee getting main stage this year will change anything?

In my observations, Sm4sh shares more sensibilities with FGC games. The neutral game, footsies, transitions, mind-games, etc. are very reminiscent of SF4.

Melee is more comparable to SF3, which had been easily phased out by SF4, which will be phased out by SF5. (The natural progression of fighting game communities) Meanwhile Melee has been kicking and screaming in defiance to the advancement of time, tech, and subsequent entries)

If the FGC will acknowledge any Smash, it's more likely going to be Sm4sh. The tendency to hold on to a 14 great old entry with childish, bitterness towards Sakurai and the new titles, selfishly wanting a Melee style Smash when that clearly won't happen again, is one reason why the FGC won't take Smash seriously, and views us Smash players as immature children.

Is logical for EVO to NOT push Sm4sh to the back burner. It would please Nintendo (sponsor and all), it would help Sm4sh grow (being the newer game while Melee is so old and established that it doesn't need any more biased publicity), and would solidify the Sm4sh ruleset worldwide.

In the long run, there are more benefits to Smash, as a franchise, to help Sm4sh along by giving it the spotlight this year and seeing how it does. Especially since Melee lacks the accessibility to bring in half as many new players as Sm4sh does. Players who will become fans of the franchise, ensuring that the Smash franchise will keep going.

This is coming from logic and business seems, not bias.

 

[Delzethin]

On one hand, this goes a long way in making sure the zealots from one game don't interfere with the other game's final rounds.

On the other, now only one game gets the big spotlight...and there'll be hell raised no matter which it is.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Not really make it or die news but nice to know I guess.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

Oh, boy. I sense trouble brewing...

 

[CV Colt]

Smash 4 being played on the main stage along with so many other serious fighting games would be an absolute joke. Melee deserves the spot.

 

[Radical Larry]

To everyone I've "offended":

1) I'm not exclusively an online player. While I do play For Glory, I also play With Friends, Offline and even at a tournament and won with Ganondorf.

2) There can exist a player out there who can dominate against the rest; it's called a prodigy. Prodigies exist, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

3) There's more ways than just a tournament to prove you're the best; it's called making some goddamn videos of you going against the best Smashers in the world and actually beating them. Hey, those are a method. Then there's livestreaming, there's word of mouth by the pros, there's video sharing on Smash 4. There's more ways than tournaments.

4) Flying? Aren't airplanes quite expensive? And remember, you need a taxi to get you there afterward so...yeah, that's so much money gone from beginning to end.

5) I'm not against the competitive scene in any way, it's just that I don't give a crap about some huge tournament (and have a fear of huge crowds). I like the competitive scene, but EVO is just one of those tournaments that is just overly complex and overly packed. Did I mention I HATE huge crowds of people?

6) Everyone seems to forget that Smash Wii U has over 1500. That's a small number compared to the millions, the MILLIONS of people who play Smash. You don't know who can be the best Smash Wii U player in the world based off of 1500 people, because there could be more people, probably hundreds of thousands of people, far better than even the best Smash players in the world. You never know because there's no leader boards in the game.

 

[Phoenix502]

On one hand, this goes a long way in making sure the zealots from one game don't interfere with the other game's final rounds.

On the other, now only one game gets the big spotlight...and there'll be hell raised no matter which it is.

the unfortunate side effect of a fanbase mostly divided into factions... anyone intermingling between the crowds are walking on eggshells trying to find any hypothetical middle ground.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

Hopefully both get the same amount of attention. That's all I care about.

 

[MOI-ARI]

To everyone I've "offended":

1) I'm not exclusively an online player. While I do play For Glory, I also play With Friends, Offline and even at a tournament and won with Ganondorf.

2) There can exist a player out there who can dominate against the rest; it's called a prodigy. Prodigies exist, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

3) There's more ways than just a tournament to prove you're the best; it's called making some goddamn videos of you going against the best Smashers in the world and actually beating them. Hey, those are a method. Then there's livestreaming, there's word of mouth by the pros, there's video sharing on Smash 4. There's more ways than tournaments.

4) Flying? Aren't airplanes quite expensive? And remember, you need a taxi to get you there afterward so...yeah, that's so much money gone from beginning to end.

5) I'm not against the competitive scene in any way, it's just that I don't give a crap about some huge tournament (and have a fear of huge crowds). I like the competitive scene, but EVO is just one of those tournaments that is just overly complex and overly packed. Did I mention I HATE huge crowds of people?

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

We all know it's gonna be Melee and we all know this is going to rip the communities apart even more than they already were.

Mr. Wizard, I understand the space and time restrictions, but you have royally ****ed up.

 

[MrTsAGamer (MrT)]

I honestly hope Melee gets to be on the main stage, this would keep the fanboys happy and lesson the chances of an even bigger divide in the community.

 

[J.P]

I think the EVO staff should do a similar thing to what happened in EVO 2013: donate to X association and the game that donates the most wins the main stage. I think it's a fair and fun way to select between Melee and Smash 4 and you are also helping people in need with your money.

Personally I would love to see Melee on the main stage because it's a deeper, more fun to watch and more intense game with a developed, strong and diverse community and, after all, they are the ones who created competitive Smash as a whole.

To everyone I've "offended":

I like how you are slowly making your argument as "I'm better than the people at EVO but because I don't like big stages I don't participate nor I care". First the ball, you mention how "airplanes aren't cheap" well, if you are good enough and the community notices your skill, they will most definitely pay your airplane ticket and even house you (this has been done multiple in the past). Second you mention how you can record videos of you beating the best players but now I ask you something: How are you supposed to fight the best players in the competitive scene if you don't attend tourneys? I think you should deeply think of what you are about to say before stating such bold claims like the ones you did.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

Brawl with a new upcoming player that extends a certain character to new heights. It can happen easily if those players show up.

 

[pidgezero_one]

To everyone I've "offended":

1) I'm not exclusively an online player. While I do play For Glory, I also play With Friends, Offline and even at a tournament and won with Ganondorf.

2) There can exist a player out there who can dominate against the rest; it's called a prodigy. Prodigies exist, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

3) There's more ways than just a tournament to prove you're the best; it's called making some goddamn videos of you going against the best Smashers in the world and actually beating them. Hey, those are a method. Then there's livestreaming, there's word of mouth by the pros, there's video sharing on Smash 4. There's more ways than tournaments.

4) Flying? Aren't airplanes quite expensive? And remember, you need a taxi to get you there afterward so...yeah, that's so much money gone from beginning to end.

5) I'm not against the competitive scene in any way, it's just that I don't give a crap about some huge tournament (and have a fear of huge crowds). I like the competitive scene, but EVO is just one of those tournaments that is just overly complex and overly packed. Did I mention I HATE huge crowds of people?

6) Everyone seems to forget that Smash Wii U has over 1500. That's a small number compared to the millions, the MILLIONS of people who play Smash. You don't know who can be the best Smash Wii U player in the world based off of 1500 people, because there could be more people, probably hundreds of thousands of people, far better than even the best Smash players in the world. You never know because there's no leader boards in the game.

Why do you assume that someone thinking you made a bad argument means they're offended?

Also im not sure why a video would matter more than a tournament. Ybombb beat Isai 3 times in a row on a Twitch vod in a friendly, does that make him better than Isai?

 

[FROST :)]

To everyone I've "offended":

1) I'm not exclusively an online player. While I do play For Glory, I also play With Friends, Offline and even at a tournament and won with Ganondorf.

2) There can exist a player out there who can dominate against the rest; it's called a prodigy. Prodigies exist, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

3) There's more ways than just a tournament to prove you're the best; it's called making some goddamn videos of you going against the best Smashers in the world and actually beating them. Hey, those are a method. Then there's livestreaming, there's word of mouth by the pros, there's video sharing on Smash 4. There's more ways than tournaments.

4) Flying? Aren't airplanes quite expensive? And remember, you need a taxi to get you there afterward so...yeah, that's so much money gone from beginning to end.

5) I'm not against the competitive scene in any way, it's just that I don't give a crap about some huge tournament (and have a fear of huge crowds). I like the competitive scene, but EVO is just one of those tournaments that is just overly complex and overly packed. Did I mention I HATE huge crowds of people?

6) Everyone seems to forget that Smash Wii U has over 1500. That's a small number compared to the millions, the MILLIONS of people who play Smash. You don't know who can be the best Smash Wii U player in the world based off of 1500 people, because there could be more people, probably hundreds of thousands of people, far better than even the best Smash players in the world. You never know because there's no leader boards in the game.

If you don't like it then don't post on the thread. I'm pretty sure no one cares about your opinion. We're all discussing another thing. If you dont care then you're welcomed to not post. Maybe if SSB4 is in EVO next year you can show us that you're a FOR GLORY prodigy.

 

[Squire]

Just get the SSB4 player expected to win and the SSBM player expected to win, make them fight each other in some random game like Street Fighter 4, and the winner's game gets the stage.

This is how things should work. The main stage is for the mighty.

Failing that, it should just be melee.

 

[Eureka]

The fact that there are already two Smash games in the EVO lineup already seems unfair to members of other communities, I don't think it's necessary for both of them to be on the big stage. What I don't like about all this is Mr. Wizard deciding not to tell us which one it's going to be. Is it really a good idea to keep people in suspense and let the vitriol and anger build up like this? What is there even to gain out of keeping this a secret? Not telling us just leaves more time for people to complain about their game not getting up there when the time comes.

 

[9Tales]

Why do you assume that someone thinking you made a bad argument means they're offended?

*recognizing you made a bad argument

 

[Bazkip]

Melee is more comparable to SF3, which had been easily phased out by SF4, which will be phased out by SF5. (The natural progression of fighting game communities) Meanwhile Melee has been kicking and screaming in defiance to the advancement of time, tech, and subsequent entries)

If the FGC will acknowledge any Smash, it's more likely going to be Sm4sh. The tendency to hold on to a 14 great old entry with childish, bitterness towards Sakurai and the new titles, selfishly wanting a Melee style Smash when that clearly won't happen again, is one reason why the FGC won't take Smash seriously, and views us Smash players as immature children.

not bias

You sure about that last point?

 

[TheHypnotoad]

Just get the SSB4 player expected to win and the SSBM player expected to win, make them fight each other in some random game like Street Fighter 4, and the winner's game gets the stage.

This is how things should work. The main stage is for the mighty.

Failing that, it should just be melee.

Mango vs. ZeRo in Mario Party.

 

[MarthZ]

melee has the better community and is a more well made game it's going to more than likely be melee because of everything its been through and all these interesting past stories of differen't players whether it be ken,m2k, or dashizwiz

 

[TheBlackLuffy]

Smash 4 needs it's time to shine. Melee won't die because it didn't get the main stage for a year or two. But Smash 4 deserves to get the main stage for a bit to give it a chance to grow.

I love watching both. But I'd rather see a newer game given its rightfully deserved sponsorship.

 

[Squire]

The tendency to hold on to a 14 great old entry with childish, bitterness towards Sakurai and the new titles, selfishly wanting a Melee style Smash when that clearly won't happen again, is one reason why the FGC won't take Smash seriously, and views us Smash players as immature children.

I think it's because most of the FGC thinks Smash as a whole is a child's game with wacky stages, items, and characters.

This is a game where you can poop people in colorful eggs as a friendly dinosaur, and some of the top characters are a small monkey in a ball cap, a blue rodent in sneakers, a fox with a space ship and a bird friend, a child with a backpack and a baseball bat, a joyful little man who clumsily drops a plant as an attack, and a rad af racecar driver who has fire punches because he's the coolest fictional character of all time.

I love smash. I'll be playing smash forever. But I think there's more to it not being taken seriously than "Melee players don't like Sakurai."

The game is colorful and goofy looking, and most people played it when they were 12 and put it down in favor of what they thought were "more mature fighting games" So it's very hard, for me at least, to convince people to take it seriously.

 

[Gawain]

The FGC didn't take Melee seriously, over the 14 years of its existence and plenty of time on main stage.

What makes you think that Melee getting main stage this year will change anything?

In my observations, Sm4sh shares more sensibilities with FGC games. The neutral game, footsies, transitions, mind-games, etc. are very reminiscent of SF4.

Melee is more comparable to SF3, which had been easily phased out by SF4, which will be phased out by SF5. (The natural progression of fighting game communities) Meanwhile Melee has been kicking and screaming in defiance to the advancement of time, tech, and subsequent entries)

If the FGC will acknowledge any Smash, it's more likely going to be Sm4sh. The tendency to hold on to a 14 great old entry with childish, bitterness towards Sakurai and the new titles, selfishly wanting a Melee style Smash when that clearly won't happen again, is one reason why the FGC won't take Smash seriously, and views us Smash players as immature children.

Is logical for EVO to NOT push Sm4sh to the back burner. It would please Nintendo (sponsor and all), it would help Sm4sh grow (being the newer game while Melee is so old and established that it doesn't need any more biased publicity), and would solidify the Sm4sh ruleset worldwide.

In the long run, there are more benefits to Smash, as a franchise, to help Sm4sh along by giving it the spotlight this year and seeing how it does. Especially since Melee lacks the accessibility to bring in half as many new players as Sm4sh does. Players who will become fans of the franchise, ensuring that the Smash franchise will keep going.

This is coming from logic and business seems, not bias.

Sorry man but there are TONS of inconsistencies in your post. Lets first talk about your comparisons to Street Fighter. First, you say Smash 4 is more like Street Fighter 4 than Melee because "neutral game, footsies, transitions, mind games". I'm sorry, but what are you even rambling about? Smash 4 does not have a more interesting or varied neutral game than Melee. In Melee, you have more safe options in neutral than you do in Smash 4. You can do more things. In Street Fighter IV, you have more options. In Smash 4, you are actually pretty severely limited on what you can or can't do in the neutral game. For some characters they literally have an amount of moves that you can count on one hand that are fit for playing footsies with. Smash 4 is nothing like other fighting games in this regard.

Second, you say Melee is more like Street Fighter 3. I also think that this isn't necessarily correct. First of all, it depends on what version of SF3 (or SF4 for that matter) that you're talking about, but I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean Third Strike. Third Strike is a more precise game in general than Street Fighter IV, and it supports somewhat more aggressive play in the parry system, in that you can be aggressive in your defense. But Street Fighter IV has an abundance of more frame tight links than Third Strike, and some matchups are even more punishing than common matchups in Third Strike were. Melee is no more similar to one than the other, in fact, Melee is a lot more comparable to games like Blazblue, where the goal is to try to get your opponent stuck on the defensive, and in the corner, where you can exploit them with long block strings and whittle down their defenses and convert into long combos from it.

I promise you, Smash 4 is no more relatable than Melee to most other fighting game fanbases. In fact, it's highly arguable that it's even less so because there isn't nearly as much execution skill needed, which is itself a somewhat contentious part of fighting games in general, with the majority supporting input skill being a major facet of the game. At the very bare minimum, people who play games like BB, UNIEL, Street Fighter, etc can respect the precision and input speed needed in a game like Melee. It's harder to appreciate it in Smash 4 because the precision comes more from timing and not necessarily speed for the most part.

Also, lol, Smash 4 being at Evo has nothing to do with the Super Smash Bros. franchise's ability to continue. Smash Bros has existed without tournament support well over a decade. It is established.

EDIT: Also, SFIV has NOT replaced SF3. There are still Third Strike tournaments. There are still SF2 Turbo tournaments. It was on the main stage at Evo last year. You don't know much about these communities.

 

[kinbobbobkin]

melee has the better community

I respectfully disagree about that.