Only One Smash Game Will Finish On Sunday At Evo 2015

[Gawain]

The fact that there are already two Smash games in the EVO lineup already seems unfair to members of other communities, I don't think it's necessary for both of them to be on the big stage. What I don't like about all this is Mr. Wizard deciding not to tell us which one it's going to be. Is it really a good idea to keep people in suspense and let the vitriol and anger build up like this? What is there even to gain out of keeping this a secret? Not telling us just leaves more time for people to complain about their game not getting up there when the time comes.

They probably have not decided completely yet. Evo is still over a month away. Stuff like what days bracket happens on can be changed at pretty much any point between then and be inconsequential to the players. Everyone going to Evo is gonna be there the three days anyways.

 

[Squire]

melee has the better community and is a more well made game

While I do like melee a lot more out of the two, this statement is highly subjective and really has no backing behind it other than "Well, I like it."

 

[Gawain]

I think it's because most of the FGC thinks Smash as a whole is a child's game with wacky stages, items, and characters.

This is a game where you can poop people in colorful eggs as a friendly dinosaur, and some of the top characters are a small monkey in a ball cap, a blue rodent in sneakers, a fox with a space ship and a bird friend, a child with a backpack and a baseball bat, a joyful little man who clumsily drops a plant as an attack, and a rad af racecar driver who has fire punches because he's the coolest fictional character of all time.

I love smash. I'll be playing smash forever. But I think there's more to it not being taken seriously than "Melee players don't like Sakurai."

The game is colorful and goofy looking, and most people played it when they were 12 and put it down in favor of what they thought were "more mature fighting games" So it's very hard, for me at least, to convince people to take it seriously.

That is definitely not the reason lol. Fighting games in which you play as magical moe girls are taken seriously. It's got nothing to do with Smash's aesthetic. All it has to do with is that it's extremely different from EVERY other fighting game, and many of the conventions of the series are just not easy to relate to from that perspective. The fanbase is a large part of the problem as well; Smash players are seen pretty negatively by a large portion of top professionals in other games. Overly loud, obnoxious, and late are probably the three most common descriptions you'll hear. There's also the fact that Smash takes WAY longer than any other fighter to run in tournament. This is a big source of contention. When a single round takes 6 minutes (Hbox vs Armada at Evo last year), it gets on people's nerves. Especially when no one has ever put up a good reason for them being that long. I'll be honest, I've yet to see a good reason why Melee should be 4 stock, 8 minute other than "uhh comebacks? also tradition".

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Also, I'd like to point out that both the Smash games and SFIV are guaranteed to have to most entrants. They will be the top 3 most entered games at EVO this year. SFIV will get the main stage, sure. Because a lot of people entered and it's a big tournament. I don't understand why that isn't simply the case for the other two. It's a slap in the face to over 1,500 people either way you put it.
Melee and 4 are two insaaaaanely different games and if outsiders refuse to acknowledge that just because they're apart of the same franchise, they need to go get glasses.
I apologize for how hostile this sounds, but this will cause the biggest ****storm between 4vsMelee yet.

I'll be honest, I don't want Melee to win, because that will male the Sm4sh players even more bitter toward Melee that they can't have their turn in the spotlight.
BUUUT I don't want Sm4sh to win because then Melee players will work to stomp out Sm4sh even more.

Nobody wins. NOBODY WINS.

Once again, Mr. Wizard messed up.

 

[ItsMeBrandon]

I'm looking at this optimistically myself, and I plan to watch Smash 4, and I'll probably watch Melee.

To everyone who's hyped for your preferred Smash game (if not both of them), show your support by watching the stream you want. I think the best case scenario is that both Smash games get a lot of viewers and we realize that both games are well-liked.

 

[Daouzin]

Radical Larry is literally a caricature of the scrub mindset haha. He's so scrub I had to put him on blast via Social Media hahahahaha. Jesus lol.

I can't wait to declare myself the best at every video game, don't worry guys I don't need to go to tournaments to prove it.

 

[Gawain]

Also, I'd like to point out that both the Smash games and SFIV are guaranteed to have to most entrants. They will be the top 3 most entered games at EVO this year. SFIV will get the main stage, sure. Because a lot of people entered and it's a big tournament. I don't understand why that isn't simply the case for the other two. It's a slap in the face to over 1,500 people either way you put it.
Melee and 4 are two insaaaaanely different games and if outsiders refuse to acknowledge that just because they're apart of the same franchise, they need to go get glasses.
I apologize for how hostile this sounds, but this will cause the biggest ****storm between 4vsMelee yet.

Once again, Mr. Wizard messed up.

You're ignoring the culture of the tournament. It's about traditional fighting games. Games like Guilty Gear and Marvel have been in the Evo scene for a lot longer, and demand more respect for it. It's not always about majority rules. Comments like this one are why people don't take Smashers seriously a lot of the time. You're essentially advocating mob rule.

 

[Eureka]

That is definitely not the reason lol. Fighting games in which you play as magical moe girls are taken seriously. It's got nothing to do with Smash's aesthetic. All it has to do with is that it's extremely different from EVERY other fighting game, and many of the conventions of the series are just not easy to relate to from that perspective. The fanbase is a large part of the problem as well; Smash players are seen pretty negatively by a large portion of top professionals in other games. Overly loud, obnoxious, and late are probably the three most common descriptions you'll hear. There's also the fact that Smash takes WAY longer than any other fighter to run in tournament. This is a big source of contention. When a single round takes 6 minutes (Hbox vs Armada at Evo last year), it gets on people's nerves. Especially when no one has ever put up a good reason for them being that long. I'll be honest, I've yet to see a good reason why Melee should be 4 stock, 8 minute other than "uhh comebacks? also tradition".

I honestly think it's a bit of both. If Smash was like a traditional fighter and still had the wacky aesthetics, then it would be fine. If Smash played like it does now but was more "serious" then it would probably still be welcomed. It's the combination of those two factors that signal to some people that Smash is "not a real fighting game". Even if the fanbase was quieter (as if fans shouldn't get hype for their game) and the matches were shorter, the fact is that many people don't think Super Smash Brothers is a legitimate competitive game at a core level.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I respectfully disagree about that.

Yeah, I'm going to disagree too.
Melee has arguably the biggest fanbase at the moment, which means a bigger pool of individuals that could each end up being anywhere on the spectrum of "productive" to "uselessly toxic". A bigger selection of productive people means you get more incredible and amazing content coming from a community collaborating. But the influence that these people are earning the Melee community also has ****heads taking advantage of it and making it look terrible at the same time, and using melee's public presence as a platform to spew their ****.

Example: Melee players trashing other smash games. The only other smash game with players who have as much vitriol toward other games as Melee randoms is Smash 64. But 64 doesn't have the influence for that to really mean or do anything in the long run, as opposed to Melee whose playerbase gets all the attention.

There is no best smash community. They all have their own unique balances pros and cons.‎

 

[Squire]

That is definitely not the reason lol.

Yeah. You're probably right. I thought it'd make a funny post though.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

You're ignoring the culture of the tournament. It's about traditional fighting games. Games like Guilty Gear and Marvel have been in the Evo scene for a lot longer, and demand more respect for it. It's not always about majority rules. Comments like this one are why people don't take Smashers seriously a lot of the time. You're essentially advocating mob rule.

I'm not advocating anything. I'm just upset that two communities can't get along and that this situation is going to make it that much worse.

No one important will see my rant, and no one's opinion will be changed by it. It doesn't matter.

 

[Silvia]

This is gonna be exciting to see.

 

[Gawain]

No one important will see my rant, and no one's opinion will be changed by it. It doesn't matter.

The internet in a nutshell hah.

 

[9Tales]

The variable that decides which game is on stage is going to be Nintendo support. less support = Melee stage, more support = Sm4sh stage.
Without Nintendo melee obviously gets it because:
1) the average Sm4sh player respects Melee more than the reverse
2) Melee is just generally the community that b!tches when it's slighted which it will feel it has been if it gives the stage up. Sm4sh is not going to outcry nearly as much over not getting something it didn't have before.

Throw Nintendo in though and the new game get's the love.

For my own part, as an active Sm4sh player, I would be happy to see it on the stage... but I'm legit scared of the melee outcry to the point I'd almost rather keep the peace. The moment they feel another game is getting better treatment they go from passively accepting to openly aggressive :/

 

[Shuriblur]

I would like it to be Smash 4, but I can understand if it's Melee. In my mind it's not too big of a deal as both games are being streamed.

I like watching both games, so whatever happens I know I'll enjoy it.

 

[meda9871]

I'm not sure if anyone else realized, but no matter who gets the main stage spot on Sunday, it's a lose-lose situation no matter what happens. There's still time so why don't we try and see if both can somehow fit in on Sunday.

Or we can be fair and both go on Saturday to show how we are a community that's unified together

 

[Zoma]

So late? Read the article, this was announced back when the games that would be at Evo at ALL were announced.

Read the second half of my post. What's particularly annoying is that players of one game will have to get hotels and flights until Monday even though their game ends on Saturday, and there's no way to know which it will be.

It's also funny because what you're essentially saying is that this article was pointless, because the news is months old. It's taking plenty of people by surprise, so clearly they haven't gotten the word out well enough.

 

[Bazkip]

Melee players already starting a ****storm in the comments. How great and upstanding members of Smash!

Are we reading the same comment thread? Both sides are guilty of this.

 

[Gawain]

I'm not sure if anyone else realized, but no matter who gets the main stage spot on Sunday, it's a lose-lose situation no matter what happens. There's still time so why don't we try and see if both can somehow fit in on Sunday.

Or we can be fair and both go on Saturday to show how we are a community that's unified together

You do realize that it's still going to be on the main stage on Saturday right? Games that finish on Saturday will still be played in front of the audience in the main ballroom. This is how Evo has always worked. The only stigma on Saturday is the one you put on it yourself.

 

[Laggalot101]

As a Smash 4 player myself, I'd love to see Smash 4 get the main stage, obviously, but I'm not going to make a fuss if it goes to Melee. I prefer 4, but I recognize Melee's relevance and contribution to the series as a whole in the franchise's history when it comes to the competitive scene. To be honest, I'm going to be perfectly fine either way. I have more issue with people who reject either game.

Also obviously I want the game that I like to be respected, so I hate when people (Melee players or otherwise) banter on about how terrible they think 4 is, often with completely prejudiced or straight up incorrect arguments. On the other hand, I often see other fans of Smash 4 make a fuss about Melee or its players, portraying themselves as victims and using that as justification to attack Melee. That too, I can't stand, and in a sense it makes me feel ashamed as a Smash 4 player. There's examples of both of these in this very thread, and they aren't particularly hard to find. It just saddens me.

I have a very clear preference for one, but the hostility to one side or another is just silly, I feel. This lack of tolerance and acceptance between communities is what hurts us a collective smash community. Of course, this is not an ideal world and things definitely won't change overnight, but I hope we can eventually shift our mindsets to be more accepting and respecting towards eachother.

If Melee gets the main stage, I will happily, wholeheartedly and respectfully congratulate the Melee community for it as a Smash 4 player. I swear that if we get an update that confirms this, I will do it. (People may remind me I wrote this is they like) If Smash 4 gets it, I hope the Melee players can find it in themselves to do the same. It's little things like that which I hope will spark some degree of mutual respect, no matter how minor it may be.

Perhaps I'm naïve, I know I'm an idealist, but a man can dream, right?

 

[BorktheBrat (Carl Brody)]

You hear that?

****storm incoming.

I think there shouldn't be any rift over this at all (both games are at EVO, the respective communities should be happy about that and focus on bringing the hype instead), but there will likely be one anyway. Cause why focus on the good things (record breaking number of entrants, both games there, TO's going out of their way to bring CRT's) when you can be salty about not getting more?

Yeah I agree. I just rather have Melee cause I enjoy it more but there's no disrespect intended to those who want Sm4sh. Honestly it makes more sense for Sm4sh to end Sunday. We should all respect each others community though because really were all kind of one community. That includes Brawl.

 

[ephOE]

Yo I can't wait for the Project Melee Grand Finals on the main stage

h y p e t r a i n h a s l e f t t h e s t a t i o n

 

[MarthZ]

I respectfully disagree about that.

do you call I WANT ****ING 2 STOCKS WELL I WANT 3
FD SHOULD BE BANNED BECAUSE OF BLINDING LIGHTS
BATTLE FIELD LEDGES ARE GAY
DIDDY KONG IS THE BEST
NO GRENIJA
NO DIDDY
a good community

 

[Solfiner]

Can everyone stop strawmanning and stop being at each other's throats for once? Oh wait, wrong community I guess. :/

 

[JuanTendo]

Melee should take the main stage on sunday and i also think it would be the smart move for us as a community. Yes smash4 is the most recent game and it might even surpass melee in entrants. Yet
we all know smash4 will end like brawl as soon as smash 5 (if ever) comes out. Melee keeps growing and imo is the center pillar of why smash got to where it its today in the FGC. Not to mention it has more "top" players where any of em could take GF making it TONS more hype, Cause right now Smash4 = Zero. Not to mention the bigger amount of sponsors on melee players that should get the main stage not because of their profit. but because it make's us look even more "pro" and settled as a community. "Smash4 will survive without the main stage, melee on the other hand needs it to keep us ALL as smash players (64\M/B\PM\S4\S43d) in the game" that is MY personal opinion.

 

[Laggalot101]

*snip*

I respect your opinion, but I think the idea that if Melee doesn't get the main stage that the scene is going to implode or something to that effect just seems a bit out of proportion to me. Melee is quite well established at this point and is showing no signs of decline, or am I wrong in this? I don't think Melee's going anywhere anytime soon. I don't think getting or not getting main stage is going to drastically change that.

Not to say that Smash 4 needs it, but I don't think things are as drastic as you (and many other for that matter) are making it out to be. There won't be any more dying Smash scenes within the near future, I'm sure.

 

[BTmoney]

I don't even care about EVO. All it is is just a tournament that tells people that a person can play. So? There can be people around the world who don't go around to tournaments like EVO and I'm sure that they'd absolutely destroy the champions of Melee and Smash 4 if given the chance.

Just because tournaments have big crowds and prizes, it doesn't mean anything if someone can actually dominate against the best player in a fighting game. However, these said people might not even arrive at tournaments because they have no means or resources to get there on time.

Location plays a huge factor in why there are so little entrants comparative to things like the NBA or the NCAA. Sure, there are teams, but remember, there are multiple locations in these big events, some of which are right at home to some people.

But things like EVO, though, have only one determinate location, and if it's too far from you and would cost too much resources, you'd likely refuse going there and watch instead.

So tournaments shouldn't be a big deal if people can't go to them to show off their own skill. Sure, there may be over 1500 entrants, but there could have been more, had EVO decided to have different locations. It would and could span into the tens of thousands of entrants per game instead of the mere thousands.

So tournaments...not a big deal to me.
Not a big deal at all. If the champion keeps on losing to someone who hasn't entered much tournaments, would that person be the new champion instead? If said person could absolutely destroy the top ten people, would they be considered the best instead?

Tournaments can only decide the tournament champion, not the best player in the world.

This is one of the worst posts I've ever read lol. Yes there are good players who are not active in the tournament scene but there is not some guy who's better than Mango/Armada or Zero at s4msh sitting on his couch that no one knows about.

There are unheralded good players but it really sounds like you just have no experience with either game and don't understand how hard it is to play at that level. If you truly think that then you just don't get what you're looking at and that's not offensive. It's just true. Only about 10-15 people in the world have a smidgen of a chance at winning Evo and if you look at tourney results since the game was born there is something that the that the dominate players have that other people don't and it is obviously something very difficult but not impossible to attain. More realistically about 6 people in the entire world could feasibly actually win the tournament if the whole world population entered.

There is no one that good sitting around who could have came and won Evo if they felt like it. This is a hard game lol you can't just get that good quietly (it hasn't happened in 14 years and nothing points to that ever happening).

The best players are known in 99.99% of instances and trust me they have their titles because they are that good.

Same thing as when YouTube/reddit/gamefaqs person from outside the community watched a match thinks that they could compete with top players or even beat them. Try playing the game lol.

 

[kinbobbobkin]

do you call I WANT ****ING 2 STOCKS WELL I WANT 3
FD SHOULD BE BANNED BECAUSE OF BLINDING LIGHTS
BATTLE FIELD LEDGES ARE GAY
DIDDY KONG IS THE BEST
NO GRENIJA
NO DIDDY
a good community

Both community has their fair share of good and bad. I agree the 2 stock vs 3 stock, Diddy controversies and some crazed fans are a harm in our community.

But you can't deny, that you do have some bad apples here and there. May I remind you Leffen incident.

Also, some of the vocal minority take it personally(and by personally, I mean insults you) if you say another Smash game is better than Melee. I mean, it comes in opinions, but... you shall be damned if you think that Smash 64/Brawl/Sm4sh is a better game then Melee.

 

[Reggie Amiibo]

Melee people, Smash 4 people. The whole Smash community.

 

[JuanTendo]

Never said the scene is dead without Melee. the smash scene WONT ever die. but it could become less relevant, that's a possibility. What i'm saying is that we gain MORE as a community to have Melee as our "front game" once again that is just my opinion

 

[EazyDI]

The same thing was discussed for CEO briefly. I feel like it's unfair to the players to make such an announcement so late, and even more to leave the order up in the air.

He said this the day he announced the games, re-watch the video.

 

[Johnny Ca$h]

I hope they're playing SSB wii u

NO!

 

[kinbobbobkin]

NO!

Why?

 

[meda9871]

You do realize that it's still going to be on the main stage on Saturday right? Games that finish on Saturday will still be played in front of the audience in the main ballroom. This is how Evo has always worked. The only stigma on Saturday is the one you put on it yourself.

Yeah sorry, meant to mean that I think we could figure out which game goes on Sunday which may lead to backlash based on what has happened already or do Smash Saturday and have them both finish on Saturday together. Generally I don't care what happens, I'll enjoy it either way, just hope no one's hurt about the decision.

 

[DeathlyFerret]

I hope its Project M.
...

 

[Zarkdion]

I hope its Project M.
...

Fellow PM player here. Feeling this so strong. Like, all this Melee vs. Smash 4 going on and I'm just sitting here... waiting for 3.6...

 

[DeathlyFerret]

Fellow PM player here. Feeling this so strong. Like, all this Melee vs. Smash 4 going on and I'm just sitting here... waiting for 3.6...

I love entering PM locals... I get destroyed, but I think its just more fun to play than Sm4sh and Melee.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

Melee has been in the competitive lime light for years when it comes to Smash. I really think it should be SSB Wii U. Other than that, I am just glad we have both in EVO.

 

[gavin_j24]

I Love Smash4 but i hope its Melee!

 

[TreK]

Are we reading the same comment thread? Both sides are guilty of this.

I'm just on the PM side, eating popcorn