Omni Releases Controversial Video On Smash 4

[_yuna]

Buzzfeed | Omni

 

[Fatmanonice]

Haven't watched the video yet but the thing that kills me is that the discussion about this game potentially dying is more intense and heated than it was for Brawl. Sometimes I just feel like the fanbase has gone completely nuts. With all its faults, Brawl is technically still going after 7 years and, with most of these problems gone (even through active patching, I might add) in SSB4, a lot of people are talking as is SSB4 could be dead by the end of this year. Are you kidding me?! People had the patience to make Brawl work for a generation but don't for a game that's significantly more balanced and can actually be patched? What the hell has happened to this fanbase?

 

[YourFaithfulStudent]

Look everyone! Omnis digging his own grave!
i agree 100% on what hes saying btw.

 

[Ike Tyson]

@ Omni I think the "Smash 4 will Die soon" title concept is a little bit too much it causes controversy, and gets more notoriety than a title/video that gives a positive insight and states for example
" 5 Tips that can help strengthen the Smash 4 community?"
Would've been a better segway to drive home your point.

 

[Rock & Roller Wabbit]

Look everyone! Omnis digging his own grave!

Not exactly. While it seems like it, he's simply putting our opinion for the Sm4sh community to see. Whether it's a bad opinion or a good one is up to us.
Or not.
I don't really know.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

This thread in a nutshell:

 

[BSP]

I can't listen to the video right now, but I feel like any notion of Smash 4 dying any time soon is silly. I don't know what to make of it. It hasn't even been half a year, and the game's death is being brought up?

 

[YourFaithfulStudent]

Not exactly. While it seems like it, he's simply putting our opinion for the Sm4sh community to see. Whether it's a bad opinion or a good one is up to us.
Or not.
I don't really know.

maybe i need to say this with my post but i agree 100% on what hes saying. its only a joke because people are going to get mad at him. and most of his fans are smash 4 soooo.

 

[BuTTNutz]

I don't want smash 4 to die as it is the only smash game that I think Im actually good at competitively, but if it dies than it will be the smash community and its inability to accept anything that isn't melee. ( IF you like melee, please don't take this the wrong way. Melee is amazing)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@ Omni I think the "Smash 4 will Die soon" title concept is a little bit too much it causes controversy, and gets more notoriety than a title/video that gives a positive insight and states for example
" 5 Tips that can help strengthen the Smash 4 community?"
Would've been a better segway to drive home your point.

Being fair, he admitted this in the video.

It was a rant and his honest thoughts.

 

[Rock & Roller Wabbit]

maybe i need to say this with my post but i agree 100% on what hes saying. its only a joke because people are going to get mad at him. and most of his fans are smash 4 soooo.

Oh.
Whoops .-. Sorry, nowadays it's hard to tell the good from the bad. I apologize for thinking you as another one of the people that are giving Omni a bad time for this video.

 

[DarkStar64]

Whether or not Smash 4 lives on will solely be decided on its community of players. I feel like the reason Brawl didn't take off was because people didn't want to accept it as a different game from Melee and adapt their play styles to the new game, that being said it's almost undoubted that Brawl was designed to discourage competitive play and appeal to a more casual audience. Smash 4 fixed a lot of the problems that existed in Brawl and it leaves room IMO for competitive play and experimentation while still having an "easy to pick-up and learn" atmosphere to appeal to casual players and to attract new players and maybe even encourage some casual players who would have never given the well-established competitive scene of Melee a try an opportunity to dive into the competitive Smash scene. New Game + New Players = Growth and growth is something I think the Smash scene needs to have and embrace otherwise it won't be competitive Smash just competitive Melee. This video is really just glass half-empty bull**** IMO. I support all Smash games (even Brawl) and I think writing this game off at such an early stage is harmful to the reputation of the entire Smash community. I love Melee it was my first Smash game and I love Smash 4 now we need to embrace it and help it grow into something big if we want it to live on.

 

[YourFaithfulStudent]

Oh.
Whoops .-. Sorry, nowadays it's hard to tell the good from the bad. I apologize for thinking you as another one of the people that are giving Omni a bad time for this video.

np np just a joke.

 

[Z25]

I have never seen omni speaj before. He is one cocky ****. I strongly disagree with everything he says. I'm in a huge group irl and follow others. 2 stock is when you have limited time. 3 has and is almost no questions asked, always chosen. " In My opinion as he say... You know what NO. Omni i think your opinion is quite flawed, no offensive. you overact, can't speak for everyone, your to cocky sounding.The community isn't as divided as he thinks, customs no one really complains about them. I did customs with several members on here ans they aren't cheap. The characters are all relatively balanced and if your good you can avoid " OP" combos. The game won't die for awhile, The game runs amazing competitively, he should wake up and realize it, Is it melee physics good? No but we need to stop fanboying over melee physics, It had 25 characters and less work need. We have 51 great characters in this game each with unique gimmics, how about you realize this omni. Seriously, imo your opinion is very inaccurate. They only real good point is unify everyone. But were doing fine and with DLC the game will gain even more competitive play, how about you wait till then?

 

[Zebkeet]

I have never seen omni speaj before. He is one cocky ****. I strongly disagree with everything he says. I'm in a huge group irl and follow others. 2 stock is when you have limited time. 3 has and is almost no questions asked, always chosen. " In My opinion as he say... You know what NO. Omni i think your opinion is quite flawed, no offensive. you overact, can't speak for everyone, your to cocky sounding.The community isn't as divided as he thinks, customs no one really complains about them. I did customs with several members on here ans they aren't cheap. The characters are all relatively balanced and if your good you can avoid " OP" combos. The game won't die for awhile, The game runs amazing competitively, he should wake up and realize it, Is it melee physics good? No but we need to stop fanboying over melee physics, It had 25 characters and less work need. We have 51 great characters in this game each with unique gimmics, how about you realize this omni. Seriously, imo your opinion is very inaccurate. They only real good point is unify everyone. But were doing fine and with DLC the game will gain even more competitive play, how about you wait till then?

I don't think you see the big picture.

 

[Z25]

I don't think you see the big picture.

I do but again he acts way to much like a no it all for my liking, We control the game as a community quite well know, if your playing competitive then you go by a normal tournament or no items match rules. So he can't say anything really, it's not even close to being as bad as brawl was viewed.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I do but again he acts way to much like a no it all for my liking, We control the game as a community quite well know, if your playing competitive then you go by a normal tournament or no items match rules. So he can't say anything really, it's not even close to being as bad as brawl was viewed.

Omni knows what he is talking about and was apart of the brawl backroom like I was.

He has a good grasp and some pushes and is offering his own thoughts on this.

 

[Space Stranger]

I love how open and accepting this community is towards honest opinions regarding observations. I'm glad everyone was able to reach an understanding and had the knowledge to avoid wars over a video game.

Spoiler

But since when was the internet safe for opposing opinions?

 

[Pazzo.]

It seems a lot of complaints with this game, Omni, and so on, come from misinformation about Smash 4.

And I will not back down from what I said on page 1.

What goes around comes around.

 

[Jiggly]

I don't understand why this would be controversial. We as a smash 4 community haven't been all too strong together, it's turning out to be a preschool Jenga tower. We need a backroom, or else we are gonna have issues agreeing...

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

Finally someone said it. I completely and utterly agree with everything that's said in this video.

 

[L337m0j0]

I don't really understand why all smash games except melee get bad mouthed.

The community should be looking at it like the Street Fighter games...sequels come out but no one really argues which game is the best one for competitive play...they all have their gameplay mechanics you need to get used to.

If you personally do no like a version of smash, then don't play it. But don't go saying one game is better than the other because you have no precious wave dashing.

Not all street fighter games have a parry system...the logic of the smash community (more the melee crowd) really needs to change. I find people who play smash 4 do not think smash 4 is a superior game to melee, its just the one that best fits that persons play style.

 

[SAUS]

Is Omni a melee player or something? I am not sure where melee was brought into this at all lol.

 

[hype machine]

@ Omni

I'm speaking to you 1v1 just to have a discussion on this and what you presented in this video. I'm ignoring every other comment mostly because I want to speak to just you and not bait myself into debating with others, I would debate with Praxis if I did tbh, for some reason I disagree on almost anything I would talk to him about smash related. But enough of that.

First few things to note about me.

I enjoy Smash 4 more than any other smash game.
I think it is better than Brawl by a long shot and I made that my main game for 4-6 years.

Now onto the subject at hand, your video.

There is merit but I think you still need to consider the divide on rulesets is something that has happened in every game outside of maybe PM because the devs say what is legal and what is not for the most part. Might have some more TO influence but given how it is set-up it seems like they are working more hand in hand on that front. What makes this harder is that Smash 4 has a larger variance on what is possible for rulesets because it is far more open in options in that area.

4v4? No other smash game has that.
Customs? Nope.
Some of the stages? Not really though each game is different in this regard.

It has options people can use that honestly is a hotbutton issue and will be debated back and forth because that is what happened with every game. Remember Melee had items on way back when for a while.

People are crying OP customs because they aren't used to them like how people were mad about ADHD using Villager's custom set-ups, even though he only got fifth and lot to a lot of others while that top 8 was actually very diverse in terms of picks. This is going to happen because change will happen, and overtime this is something people will need to learn and get used to. People want to stay to the status quo of For Glory no customs but a lot of this is raw laziness and a lot of regions are pushing way harder to make customs legal. This is something I would push for because there is a lot of depth and potential gameplay possible in here for better and even for worse in some cases. It's clear where the community is on custom usage, 80%-90% want them legal as seen in polls. The issue will be unlocking and getting people to load them on. It will be a slow process but eventually I see this issue going away as more WiiUs get loaded up on this stuff.

People will settle on a time/stock count, most likely 2 stock 5-6 minutes, more likely 6. Might see some more variance but people seem to favor this kind of time and stock count just for fast matches, which is fine. Honestly smash is one of those games that goes longer than most in set count for games.

The defensive thing is overblown, a lot. People saying this game is worse than Brawl in that regard, I'm sorry but I can't take that seriously from my perspective. Projectiles and the defensive options in that game are far stronger than what you can do in smash 4. The defense is still there but it's been toned down a lot. Punishing an airdodge is more possible, we don't have a dumb planking rule to keep a character legal, we don't force offense to be so punishable you can lose a stock for even trying to approach. It doesn't reward projectiles to be so safe it's near impossible to get in on some characters. I agree defense is still there, but at least it's opened up to more playstyles, something I do not think Melee or Brawl are really in the middle instead going to one extreme or the other.

The community will come together on some level, that much is true for the rulesets. Some of the whining is going to be there but that happens with every game, even melee. Hell I whine and debate that LCancelling and Spacies always being top 5-10 in PM is to me ****ing stupid with balance bias and "cuz melee" design mentality. Still that's how it is for some people. They will whine and debate about things when really they need to accept what it is when they play the game they do. I still play PM to support it locally, but I still think some of the things I said on it are why I play other smash games over it, Smash 4/Melee, like you said in the video.

As for the death of smash 4, I don't agree. If it were happening we wouldn't be seeing Evo and APEX with the huge numbers they have/had. Tournaments are flourishing more than ever. Nintendo actually kind of gives a damn about smash now.

I really do not see death happening anytime soon. What I do find valid about your video is two things.
1. Whining instead of manning up and accepting it or finding a new game to play.
2. Unity in some kind of ruleset.

Those I find to be valid and I would rather see solutions to those which is what I found to be the most legitimate and interesting discussion points of your video. I find Smash 4 to be far more fun than Brawl was, and I'm not really interested in PM when I don't think it's going to support changes I would like to see done with it while it sits as what I view as trying it's hardest to just be a clone of melee with updated graphics instead of pushing for stronger and more likely what I find to be better changes. Melee has be fighting spacies almost all the time and eventually I kind get sick of of it. There isn't really an variance there and I feel like I am playing the same two match-ups almost all the time. Probably far worse than me fighting MK in Brawl.

So that's more or less why I sit with Smash 4 while I agree and disagree with your video. I hope you read this and consider my points.

PS. I want a yoga rematch on stream.

I don't think he will see this message, you're better off reaching him on twitter, btw why did you have to bring pm in this. Look at the top ranks at project m netplay, plenty of character diversity. http://www.smashladder.com/rankings/project-m-netplay/5

 

[Z25]

Omni knows what he is talking about and was apart of the brawl backroom like I was.

He has a good grasp and some pushes and is offering his own thoughts on this.

No offense but He sounds to biased. Give the game a full year then speak, He and others may think he is knowledgable and he is in some cases, but he is also very misinformed on this game and should study up. I stand by my point.

 

[Soul.]

Sometimes I wonder if this community is all but people complaining about every Smash game and not treat them all equally.
No. Complaints everywhere. You can't please everyone. Ugh.

 

[L337m0j0]

I brought melee into this because recently at my smash 4 local tourney, there were some melee players and they were bashing the other players pretty hard for literally no reason.

It disgusted me really and felt really good when I whooped them

Just because your good at melee, doesn't mean you king of the world.

Again, melee is not a bad game, its great! All the smash games are great in their own way!

 

[Sonnet]

Play the game.

I feel like that's our biggest issue right now, people who only watch Smash 4 are trying to change and influence the game in ways that actual players of the game may not agree with, solely for the sake of speeding up gameplay so they'll have something slightly more interesting to watch before Melee comes on stream.

 

[teluoborg]

Omni knows what he is talking about and was apart of the brawl backroom like I was.

He has a good grasp and some pushes and is offering his own thoughts on this.

No he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's forgetting that 1-the community is much bigger than when Brawl came out, so with more people voicing their opinion there will be more discrepencies, that 2-the game is ONLY 5 months old (5 months is nothing) and that finally 3-much like the MK ban in Brawl the decision about the ruleset is the TO's responsibility and nobody else's, so the discussion between PirateZelda97 and XxX_Cloud-Ryu_XxX has no value even if it's in the "rulseset discussion" part of the forum.

The only thing he's right about is "just play the game". The game won't die because of 3 stocks, 8 minutes, customs On 4v4 tournaments with PS2 as a starter, it will die if there is no tournament.

 

[Denti]

In all honesty I don't care which rules are accepted. If I have a choice I practice by whatever rules allow me to play both formats. So I play 2 stock customs on. Why? Because I JUST WANT TO PLAY THE GAME! I don't see how that's so hard for some people.

Thanks for the video Omni. We need to discuss our ruleset as a scene.

 

[Z25]

No he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's forgetting that 1-the community is much bigger than when Brawl came out, so with more people voicing their opinion there will be more discrepencies, that 2-the game is ONLY 5 months old (5 months is nothing) and that finally 3-much like the MK ban in Brawl the decision about the ruleset is the TO's responsibility and nobody else's, so the discussion between PirateZelda97 and XxX_Cloud-Ryu_XxX has no value even if it's in the "rulseset discussion" part of the forum.

The only thing he's right about is "just play the game". The game won't die because of 3 stocks, 8 minutes, customs On 4v4 tournaments with PS2 as a starter, it will die if there is no tournament.

This all the way, finally someone can understand how Biased and Wrong he is.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't think he will see this message, you're better off reaching him on twitter, btw why did you have to bring pm in this. Look at the top ranks at project m netplay, plenty of character diversity. http://www.smashladder.com/rankings/project-m-netplay/5

I'm talking about tier list impressions and what the results irl not online.

Fox still sits comfortable at number 1 on swf's ranking with Marth as #2.

Just like Melee.

Might change with results rotating since it only records the past 6 months but the bias stuff that turns me off from PM still stands.

Not trying to start Melee/pm vs 4 but I brought up my own insight on this to show what people call, "competitive" is less about that and more what people like to play over other games.

Argueing over competence values when they may not be looking for the same skills or value them as much is a big one. It's still a lame and fruitless debate and more about, "I prefer this game/mine is better than yours"

I gave my input in why I prefer other games over PM, that is all.

 

[Omni]

Been in the scene since 2004.
Played Melee, Brawl, and now Smash 4 extensively.
I don't belong to any one scene so uh... please top worrying what kind of Smasher I am.
There's no bias here, guys.

 

[MezzoMe]

So imagine how useful an auto-canceled Dair would have been in Smash 4 with the increased hitstun. Brawl Dorf didn't have much else for approach options other than dash attack, Flame Choke, and Wiz Kick, all of which were just as easily punished as the stomp. My point is that now that the stomp cannot be auto-canceled, it takes one viable option Ganon had back in Brawl.

I can imagine that, but Chaos Theory teaches that it probably wouldn't be as I imagine, for istance other characters, most notably Flacon, will still have their auto-cancel wich would safely cripple not only his Dair but a good chunk of his moves.
Also Ganon needed to hard read his opponent basically always in neutral and when disadvantaged, for istance, if the opponent uses shield when you jump against him you will space a Fair or fastfall and Flame Choke. Also Dair is better on sheild than it appears because of his immense pushback, especially against characters with low traction. His general increase in damage, prior to shieldstun depending by traction, and the increase in the difference between the different characters' heights, increasing the lenght of his limbs, give him a whole set of attacks safe on shield to deal with.

 

[stancosmos]

Of course we're divided over everything.

The game is only 5 months old.


I think it's a little backwards in expecting the opposite trend.

I also think its a little backwards to say it isn't healthy or normal.

Melee players being Melee players yet again, I see.

When the last out-of-print disk breaks, and it will, then where will you be?

You mean in at least 50 years, maybe 5 years before the last smash 4 disk breaks, and well after both games have become entirely irrelevant? It really doesn't effect anything. He'll be just fine when the last melee disk breaks, odds are hell be dead before that happens. Hope that answers your nonsensical question?

 

[Mike G]

I love how this was supposed to be about "How to make Smash 4 community grow" Discussion but some Idiots in here make it into "Why this game is better than this game"

Just like Omni has expressed many times in the damn vid "Just play the Game" How about you guys.."Watch the video." Don't just look at Omni being silly. Actually try to understand the point he's making in the video.



I'm Sorry Omni but you have high level patience holy **** lol

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No he doesn't know what he's talking about, he's forgetting that 1-the community is much bigger than when Brawl came out, so with more people voicing their opinion there will be more discrepencies, that 2-the game is ONLY 5 months old (5 months is nothing) and that finally 3-much like the MK ban in Brawl the decision about the ruleset is the TO's responsibility and nobody else's, so the discussion between PirateZelda97 and XxX_Cloud-Ryu_XxX has no value even if it's in the "rulseset discussion" part of the forum.

The only thing he's right about is "just play the game". The game won't die because of 3 stocks, 8 minutes, customs On 4v4 tournaments with PS2 as a starter, it will die if there is no tournament.

He has valid points on the whining and no real consistent rule set.

What I don't agree on is some of his other points, game is dying when the opposite is happening.

 

[Z25]

Been in the scene since 2004.
Played Melee, Brawl, and now Smash 4 extensively.
I don't belong to any one scene so uh... please top worrying what kind of Smasher I am.
There's no bias here, guys.

Not trying to be rude but you seem to severely tear apart brawl and sm4sh, but not a single word on melee, Hence Bias claims.

 

[Mike G]

Not trying to be rude but you seem to severely tear apart brawl and sm4sh, but not a single word on melee, Hence Bias claims.

Hey, maybe because...most of the Brawl community is actually now the Smash 4 community? While the Melee guys kinda stayed with their own thing for the most part? Hmmm.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I eat controversy for dinner, and even I gotta say, this is stretching. Smash 4 won't die unless the community kills it, though at this point, I wouldn't put it past them.