Denti
Smash Master
Is probably Pokemon Stadium 2. Discuss?
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Olimar's overall worst stage
- Thread starter Denti
- Start date
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
I believe Pokemon Stadium 2 would be Olimar's worst stage if there were more characters that could take advantage of Olimar's flaws on it more so. As things are now, the characters that can, aren't that great on it. Not many characters dominate on the stage, unlike other stages that are seen as counterpicks against Olimar (Frigate, Brinstar, Norfair, etc). This is why PS2 isn't actually Olimar's worst stage in practice, while the stage is still horrible for him in theory. How much our matchups get tipped against us is a huge factor that I don't think plays in PS2 as often as it does in Frigate, Norfair, Brinstar, and even Rainbow Cruise or Smashville (in my opinion).
Greward
Smash Lord
Summit is the worst
professor mgw
Smash Champion
Brinstar or Rainbow
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
Grew's right Summit's Olimar's worst stage ever Clover you can close the thread now.
Denti
Smash Master
I think that you're right hilt. Just for your information, you need to ban ps2 against yoshi and zss. RANDOOOOMMMM
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
Nothing more must be said on this subject.
I would like to ask why you didn't close it yourself, though. ^^;
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
I was just joking rofl! Thread reopened XD <3 Clover
It's also bannable against Pit, Denti X: Who knew!
It's also bannable against Pit, Denti X: Who knew!
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
Closing thread again to spite Hilt.
But yeah, Pit's a freaking nightmare on PS2.
Have you guys ever tried a hacked custom stage made of only two ice blocks?
But yeah, Pit's a freaking nightmare on PS2.
Have you guys ever tried a hacked custom stage made of only two ice blocks?
Tin Man
Smash Hero
I figure I need to experiment with this stage more actually. Otherwise I'd say Brinstar is definitely the worst legal stage for Olimar.
But I can think of a few things. the Rock stage doesn't seem so bad. The Ice stage, not sure how well that goes over/who can take advantage of the ice better. I mean it ruins Olimar grab given its easier to brake out of if the pikmin has to run a further distance to reach olimar after getting the opponent but you get a sliding Fsash and Usmash, so a lot of range. a retreating Fsmash seems really good. As for air stage, stay grounded and you should be fine conceptually. and for electric stage, whomever camps the centre 1st wins there.
But I can think of a few things. the Rock stage doesn't seem so bad. The Ice stage, not sure how well that goes over/who can take advantage of the ice better. I mean it ruins Olimar grab given its easier to brake out of if the pikmin has to run a further distance to reach olimar after getting the opponent but you get a sliding Fsash and Usmash, so a lot of range. a retreating Fsmash seems really good. As for air stage, stay grounded and you should be fine conceptually. and for electric stage, whomever camps the centre 1st wins there.
It helps Olimar more than it hurts him, imo. However, like PS1... the only disadvantage I could see is if someone were attempting to time you out, but it's not even that big of a deal.
The only thing I don't like about Brinstar is when characters use moves that kill at 30% on the things at the side to keep the hitbox out longer. I love when characters like Wario take me there, soooo freeeee.
Denti
Smash Master
Brinstar imo is only really bad news against priority aerial characters, so MK, GaW and Peach. Other than that the stage is sometimes an Olimar support because he has actual options when pressured to the ledge (since you can attack threw the stage and all), you can kill pretty early and the lava helps with recovery. The only thing that really comes to mind when I think about that stage is that sometimes you can't grab over that parting on the floor.
PS2 is fine in regular transformation and during the rock transformation (even though on the rock transformation both players end up on either side of the rock and waiting). It's the other transformations that are my real argument. The Ice transformation makes pivot grabs not connect, it makes pikmin desync randomly causing you to not be able to use pikmin attacks and Olimar's whole game revolves around spacing on the ground so since it's slippery and ground spacing isn't really possible. The electric transformation is just as bad. Say Olimar does control the middle of the stage, so what? The opponent then planks, what is Olimar going to do?? chase them? And if the opponent controls the middle of the electric transformation Olimar is way screwed because even if we go to the ledge to plank they can chase us off the edge making us either leap to the air or get on the treadmill part, putting us at a dis advantage. The air transformation is pretty bad too. Olimar has horrible air game during this and it is easy to put Olimar up in the air if he is aiming to stay grounded. You can't just pivot grab because you then give them more stage to control and you can't spam side B because if they read a side B they can rush in and tap Olimar in the air also Forward smashes aren't good either because they can dash in and power shield then punish. Also say you even get the opponent in the air, then what? You can't exactly chase after them because you'll end up putting yourself in the air. It's a pretty brutal game on ps2 >.>
PS2 is fine in regular transformation and during the rock transformation (even though on the rock transformation both players end up on either side of the rock and waiting). It's the other transformations that are my real argument. The Ice transformation makes pivot grabs not connect, it makes pikmin desync randomly causing you to not be able to use pikmin attacks and Olimar's whole game revolves around spacing on the ground so since it's slippery and ground spacing isn't really possible. The electric transformation is just as bad. Say Olimar does control the middle of the stage, so what? The opponent then planks, what is Olimar going to do?? chase them? And if the opponent controls the middle of the electric transformation Olimar is way screwed because even if we go to the ledge to plank they can chase us off the edge making us either leap to the air or get on the treadmill part, putting us at a dis advantage. The air transformation is pretty bad too. Olimar has horrible air game during this and it is easy to put Olimar up in the air if he is aiming to stay grounded. You can't just pivot grab because you then give them more stage to control and you can't spam side B because if they read a side B they can rush in and tap Olimar in the air also Forward smashes aren't good either because they can dash in and power shield then punish. Also say you even get the opponent in the air, then what? You can't exactly chase after them because you'll end up putting yourself in the air. It's a pretty brutal game on ps2 >.>
z00ted
The Assault of Laughter ﷼
- Joined
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Denti
Smash Master
**** I DID! Get out of here Freematic!
Just change how you play based on the transformation. The sections you listed augment parts of Olimar's game while diminishing others - the good part is have viable strategies either way.
On the ice, just focus on not moving around as much. Don't run around like an idiot, keep your movements smaller and tight so the Pikmin don't desync (I thought this would be kind of common sense). If they don't do the same, you KNOW they are committing to an approach. If you chose to fsmash them, know that shield slide is amplified due to the ice. If they powershield, they'll retain their momentum forward, but if they just normal shield they'll be pushed back more. Knowing this, be creative with the ice in choosing whether to stay still or slide with fsmashes.
The thing I like the most about the ice is (unless your pikmin at like hella crazy desync'd) upB still works. Do a JC reversed uspecial if you have to run, and you'll slide backwards while doing it. It's just a wall of priority that covers so many options, lol. If you slide off while doing it, you grab the edge, so there's nothing to worry about there.
I don't understand your reasoning on the electric transformation. If Olimar is in the middle, the opponent camps the side, but if Olimar is on the side, Olimar gets boned. How does that work? lmao. I guess I'm more or less asking how they're chasing us off the ledge?
As for the air transformation, I hope to God you aren't SH pikmin tossing... cause that would be the dumbest, most illogical thing you could do. The air makes grounded Pikmin toss go farther. Also, the air phase makes it more risky for your opponent to approach in the air. I mean, I would hope you know how to punish character's ground approaches, Denti.
Sounds like to me you're over focusing on certain aspects of PS2 instead of creatively abusing it. A lot of your problems could've been resolved by applying common sense.
On the ice, just focus on not moving around as much. Don't run around like an idiot, keep your movements smaller and tight so the Pikmin don't desync (I thought this would be kind of common sense). If they don't do the same, you KNOW they are committing to an approach. If you chose to fsmash them, know that shield slide is amplified due to the ice. If they powershield, they'll retain their momentum forward, but if they just normal shield they'll be pushed back more. Knowing this, be creative with the ice in choosing whether to stay still or slide with fsmashes.
The thing I like the most about the ice is (unless your pikmin at like hella crazy desync'd) upB still works. Do a JC reversed uspecial if you have to run, and you'll slide backwards while doing it. It's just a wall of priority that covers so many options, lol. If you slide off while doing it, you grab the edge, so there's nothing to worry about there.
I don't understand your reasoning on the electric transformation. If Olimar is in the middle, the opponent camps the side, but if Olimar is on the side, Olimar gets boned. How does that work? lmao. I guess I'm more or less asking how they're chasing us off the ledge?
As for the air transformation, I hope to God you aren't SH pikmin tossing... cause that would be the dumbest, most illogical thing you could do. The air makes grounded Pikmin toss go farther. Also, the air phase makes it more risky for your opponent to approach in the air. I mean, I would hope you know how to punish character's ground approaches, Denti.
Sounds like to me you're over focusing on certain aspects of PS2 instead of creatively abusing it. A lot of your problems could've been resolved by applying common sense.
Denti
Smash Master
I hate my life. I responded to your post with paragraphs of MU scenarios and other things but my internet failed and I lost the post. lol. I might post again later.... >.>
Denti
Smash Master
Okay so..
I hear your arguments. I did not know about people sliding in their shield if they don't power shield. That is really useful to know and helps me understand what to do more. I'll try and charge some F smashes so they don't know when to power shield (since power shielding has to be within 2 frames of the timing). What I mostly meant about the Ice transformation that is bad is certain MUs. Characters like MK, GaW, ZSS, TL, Pit and Yoshi (maybe other characters too that I'm not remembering). Those characters can take adv of Olimar on that transformation pretty well.
As for the electric transformation I wasn't really as clear in explaining what I meant (which I should have been, so I at least make understandable sense lol). The treadmill desyncs pikmin like mad, so there is no way to deal with it other than to really avoid the treadmill altogether. With that in mind my scenario only makes sense in certain MUs. MK, GaW, ZSS, TL, Pit, DK and Yoshi. Those characters control the middle and can plank against Olimar during that transformation. The point I was trying to get across for this transformation was that either the opponent is controlling the middle (which is dis adv for Olimar), planking (which Olimar can't answer) or pressuring Olimar at the ledge (pressuring him into potential bad situations). So those characters don't have much to lose but have much to gain during that transformation.
As for the air transformation of course I'm not SH pikmin tossing. That is just dumb. The point I want to make about this transformation is that Olimar doesn't have much to gain for the transformation and has much to lose during it. Certain characters can eat Olimar up during this. For example GaW, Peach, Yoshi and ZSS.
The reason I'm stressing about this stage is because I'm starting to be counterpicked here a lot by Texans. Around 30% of people's counterpicks against me are here.
I hear your arguments. I did not know about people sliding in their shield if they don't power shield. That is really useful to know and helps me understand what to do more. I'll try and charge some F smashes so they don't know when to power shield (since power shielding has to be within 2 frames of the timing). What I mostly meant about the Ice transformation that is bad is certain MUs. Characters like MK, GaW, ZSS, TL, Pit and Yoshi (maybe other characters too that I'm not remembering). Those characters can take adv of Olimar on that transformation pretty well.
As for the electric transformation I wasn't really as clear in explaining what I meant (which I should have been, so I at least make understandable sense lol). The treadmill desyncs pikmin like mad, so there is no way to deal with it other than to really avoid the treadmill altogether. With that in mind my scenario only makes sense in certain MUs. MK, GaW, ZSS, TL, Pit, DK and Yoshi. Those characters control the middle and can plank against Olimar during that transformation. The point I was trying to get across for this transformation was that either the opponent is controlling the middle (which is dis adv for Olimar), planking (which Olimar can't answer) or pressuring Olimar at the ledge (pressuring him into potential bad situations). So those characters don't have much to lose but have much to gain during that transformation.
As for the air transformation of course I'm not SH pikmin tossing. That is just dumb. The point I want to make about this transformation is that Olimar doesn't have much to gain for the transformation and has much to lose during it. Certain characters can eat Olimar up during this. For example GaW, Peach, Yoshi and ZSS.
The reason I'm stressing about this stage is because I'm starting to be counterpicked here a lot by Texans. Around 30% of people's counterpicks against me are here.
I mean... you should be getting used to it by now then, right? haha. Like I said, you'll benefit more from focusing on what you can abuse than on what might happen to you. Worse case scenario, just keep throwing out safe hitboxes and keep your cool until you have a game-plan to win.
Tin Man
Smash Hero
You could probably add Marth to that Brinstar list. I'll read this thread more thoroughly in the near future.
DtJ Hilt
Little Lizard
I kind of want to agree.
Brinstar is a good stage for oli if you want to time someone out. get a stock lead, start scrooging (tethers don't count for LGL, but really... who is going to call olimar out on that), and then whistle stall inside the lava etc
afk
afk