Olimar Matchup Thread

[steelguttey]

ignoreeeeeeeeeee

 

[steelguttey]

Spoiler: Ganondorf

ight this starts ice climbers week (oh god nobody even plays these ****ing characters fml

 

[KingDozie]

I have never played Ics vs Olimar that much but i can try so here we go.

Olimar really likes to use/throw hes pikim right, i think the right thing to do is to blizzard/iceblock desynch camp or ftilt to stop them annoying pikims. After he runs out of pikim go after with Jab to grab, Desynch blizzard, (Both ics) Nair or nice space fairs for aerials i like that alot. He shouldnt go for grabs since theirs two of them and he might get smash attack. If he goes for aerials try to dash attack and wavedash under him then Upair or Uptilt Spamming. Avoid platforms because of Upair and also you should go for alot of grabs since Olimar spotdodge isnt that good and if he rolls you can just dsmash punish, Hes wavedash isnt that good either. Hes light so i could kill him with a grab combo like dthrow + upsmash, upthrow + bair, or upthrow + fair. The stage i would avoid is fod and dl. Best stages Yoshi, Halbred, BF, and Skyloft lol
You guys can add your input as well

 

[B.W.]

I don't know a lot about this matchup.

But I do know that Olimar's N-Air is pretty much a free ICs separator. SHFFL N-Air is very effective against ICs.

Other than that this is kind of a bait and punish thing. And get Purple. Purple goes through everything, like always.

Also Olimar's spotdodge is good. His roll is not though.

 

[KingDozie]

Didnt know Olimar spotdodge was good i thought it was too slow and Oli's Nair is pretty beast.

 

[B.W.]

Its not the fastest but its not slow either.

 

[HermitHelmet]

I don't know a lot about this matchup.

But I do know that Olimar's N-Air is pretty much a free ICs separator. SHFFL N-Air is very effective against ICs.

This is all I need to say. SHFFL N-Air them all day, easy separate. Yet again, like others, NOBODY PLAYS ICs. No one.

 

[B.W.]

ICs are the least played character in the game.

They're weird and many would argue that they're bad. Pretty sure Olimar has more range than ICs' hammers do too.

 

[steelguttey]

Spoiler: Ice Climbers

sorry i updated really late. anyway now were doing Ike. yayyyy

 

[leekslap]

I would jsay the Ike MU is almost unwinnable. His range and disjoints can knock aside the Pikmin you throw and he can kill you at like 15%! Ike murders floaties and Olimar especially is almost free and soooo easy to combo. Quick Draw lets him follow you if you try to rjun away so forget about managing Pikmin. The only reason I say almost unwinnable is because Ike's attacks are slow so you can punish sometimes. If you somehow get a juggle, he can get out pretty easy with a nair orwhatever which is why Battlefield type stage woould be a lil better but you still trade. Yoshi's Story would let Ike finish your5 stocks in 10 secs and Dreamland would let Ike always be in hitstun so Battlefield and PS2 are your second best bet aside from swi4ching. jsmwmzkmao derp I don car aboot wammar lol

 

[B.W.]

IMO, this is his fourth worst matchup. (Order being Marth, Roy, Fox, Ike. My personal feelings).

His attacks are fast enough and reach far enough to keep Olimar out with good spacing, and his QD keeps his combos going. Ike is also pretty good at edge guarding in general because F-Air and B-Air are insanely strong, and he can go really low and still make it back. If you're ever tethering the stage he literally only has to drop off the stage and N-Air and it covers everything, including waiting so he whiffs, so long as he times it right, and the timing isn't strict.

Olimar has some pretty good combos on Ike though, and your pivot grab is pretty effective against his QD stuff, either making him jump earlier or catching him if he doesn't. Ike also isn't free of holes on stage, his worst trait is his neutral game. Try to bait Ike into attacking because most everything he has is easily punishable.

Pikmin Throw is nice in this matchup because if Ike attacks to get Pikmin off of him then he puts himself at a disadvantage. Also if you have Purple then praise R.N. Jesus because Purple really helps in the neutral game because it's a real projectile.

 

[Virum]

The Ike match-up is hard, but it is by no means unwinnable. Fox and Marth match-ups are definitely worse (I'd honestly put this match-up at 55-45 for Ike, 60-40 at absolute worst). I play quite a bit against a very solid Ike in our region and at first I struggled a lot with the match-up but that's because I approached it incorrectly at first. He has the largest sword in the game, so his disjoints are overall massive and completely dominate yours. He can easily outspace you when you're within a certain range, and his immense power means he can kill you very early.

This match-up needs to be played quite defensively and campy as Ike's neutral game isn't great. Try to force the approach from him as he only really has two notable approach options (though his main one breaks into multiple other options). If he tries to dash attack, shield on reaction and punish. If you see him trying to do anything QD related, opt for a pivot grab or if he's jumped and is above you go for a USmash and begin juggling him. As B.W. said Side B is very good in this match-up as it's your main tool to force the approach. If you can get right on him then you can start applying pressure as Ike's defensive game isn't great (though be wary of NAir oos).

 

[B.W.]

Also I forgot to mention stages.

You want medium stages. Choosing anything small let's Ike absolutely smother you with N-Air, B-Air and F-Tilt, but choosing anything big lets him survive longer, which is bad because Ike can kill you easy on any stage thanks to his amazing kill power. And he's also amazing at edgeguarding, as previously stated.

Medium stages let you have enough space against Ike to see what QD shenanigans might be happening, and the walls aren't too far out so your combos have a better chance of killing Ike outright, rather than having to edgeguard him, which can be difficult to do.

 

[steelguttey]

Spoiler: Ike

and that starts the ivysaur week

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Re: Ivysaur. As Olimar, you should remember one HUGE rule:

Do not.

Throw.

The Pikmin.

When a Pikmin is attached to Ivysaur, it's a free SB charge. Usmash, uair, and dair will almost always hit an attached Pikmin, granting her some healing and getting her closer to Solar Beam (I'm not exactly sure why it isn't 'always...' seems like there might be some weirdness in where they attach that might make it not work every time. This is one of the reasons I'm anxious for debug mode so I can figure out what's going on). RL also stops incoming Pikmin. The exception to both of these of course is purple Pikmin. You're probably better off throwing away until purple comes up.

On the upside, Olimar's smashes appear to beat out Ivysaur's. I'm hesitant to say more, however, because Olimar overall is a weakness of mine no matter who I'm using, so I think any further input from me is going to be biased in Olimar's favor.

 

[leekslap]

"Oliface is ezy fooda for Ivybabies derp wat do turtles", - myself

Follow that logic and you'll be OK.

Don't Pikmin Throw ever like Kenbo said. Ivysaur outranges Olimar and has easy kills and combos and can't be juggled as easy as you would think because of up air. But it is fairly easy to bait and punish and although Olimar doesn't kill Ivysaur very easily. And if you aerial pikmin pluck to recover, Ivy will probably dair you so yeah, it's a very hard MU.

 

[leekslap]

Btw what is gonna harpoon to all this MU knowbridge when 3.5 comes out -_-

 

[it's Papa]

In this video showcasing different situational Ivysaur tactics, Machiavelli highlights some weird interactions between Ivysaur's neutral-B and Olimar's pikmin at 2:33

http://youtu.be/-k4NMbJtmQs?t=2m33s

 

[it's Papa]

Also, never take an Ivy to Yoshi's Brawl. Shy Guys = free healing and solarbeam charges.

 

[Master_Morrison]

I am a brawl olimar main and I will share with you what I know
Since people don't apparently pikmin throw or grab here
Characters that don't sweet spot the ledge but hit away Pikmin could be grabbed before they grab the ledge
So dk, bowser, marth, roy, well anyone really except for tether characters
You can grab them before they grab and since it's a grab Pikmin can't be hit
But will grab them
And if the character happens to hit you they will grab releas them lower and at that point the characters get their double jump back but most people panic because they don't know that so usually up b again
Against Charizard
Red Pikmin are your friends if you want to camp them out because most of charizard's moves are fire based they will absorb the fire attacks also if like you guys said before if you get Pikmin on his head I believe his nair won't take them off because since the Pikmin spin with him they don't hit the nair hitbox
It's worth noting that Pikmin all have elemental advantages too
You mustn't forget those elements are not just cosmetic
Red absorb fire moves and hit through fire attacks so moves like charizard's b or over b won't do anything
You can fsmash Kirby through his fire Kirby attack ect
They beat samus regular missiles
Mario's fire balls
Yellow Pikmin beats out pikachu's electric moves or at least doesn't flinch so if you latch them on they will continuously add damage to them
Blue beats squirtle smash attacks and water based moves
Because they are also an element
So if you know your line up and manage your Pikmin you can effectively camp people until they mess up because if they don't approach Pikmin will bloom whether they approach or not
Bloomed Pikmin do about 4-5 damage when latched on as opposed to 2-3 on leafed Pikmin
So if you can camp they will be pressured
Also on a lot of games I have played when I effectively hit them with a fair
I Pikmin throw immidiately because it tends to latch on and forces a panic either get up attack or predictable roll because Pikmin will do damage even while they are down
With dk I just stay away and camp
If he approaches I defend with a pivot grab
Most of them will grab him
Also I believe you guys should look into the surface terrain theory for olimar
Metal surfaces yield more frequent purple Pikmin so ideally places like pokemon stadium 1&2 and Lailat cruise are great for olimar
Depending on the region you're in Lailat is a counter pick so if they don't strike it pick it
And as for ivy knowledge
I play humble dojo and makiavelle or however you spell it
Often I am from SoCal
All I can say is Pikmin throw gets beaten by razor leaf
And unless Pikmin are directly on the bulb sweet spot they will spur spot them
Also upair beats their spiking up air
So if they are trying to spike you with it
Which they do to me just upair
Also flowered purple Pikmin eats razor leaf so if you are Pikmin throwing you can cancel razor leaf and hit ivy as well
The only thing I can't do is beat razor leaf if I don't have a purple
I need to find moves that can beat or clash without leaving myself too open because all Pikmin attacks fail against oncoming razor leaf approaches
Also ivy bair beats all olimar attacks
So either shield it or cc it because it is nasty and free kill on olimar
Also mix up your recoveries
Either recover low to avoid bairs or high to go over ivy because ivy can't go to high up but she can make it back from really low
About the white Pikmin
Either toss it out or let it bloom because they aren't too useful when they have low damage
If the white Pikmin blooms
Throw it on opponents
Let it hit once then call it back
Because hey are squishy and will die
The reason to call back a flowered white is because they will leave a flower on their head
It will gradually do damage to them like a Pikmin would so you can potentially stack it more on them if they are a low level player
Also the timer of white Pikmin on the opponent is dependent according to the damage the opponent has
So opponents at high damage will cause the white Pikmin to explode way faster or even instantly when latched on with Pikmin throw
Most players don't know that but use that to your advantage because most opponents ignore white because they are the weakest
So if you have a white and want to disrupt them and they have high damage
Throw it on them
Also purple Pikmin throw on a downed low damage opponent will basically be a ranged jab reset
So if the opponent is too heavy to chain grab up throw into purple Pikmin will cause jab reset into another grab at low damages
Also something that sometimes throws me off balance is flowered blue and purple throws are harder to follow up on light characters
So that's when yellow and red throws are useful for chain grabs or up smash follow ups
Also blue back forward and occasionally up throws are kill throws
So do learn when and what damages you can kill opponents with back throw because it's crazy strong
Also people will die easily due to poor id because they will expect down throw into fair/up smash follow up so distort them with blue back or forward throws because they are surprisingly quick too

 

[steelguttey]

yea that would do better in the general matchup thread cause this is for specific charcters every week and you kinda just alked about everyone.

 

[Master_Morrison]

Well just wanted to let you know on the past characters I missed since I was unaware people actually go on here
About ivy she can just neutral b all Pikmin away anyways I don't know why they have a wind box on ivy's attack
It's incredibly stupid
But they gave her one but it is what it is
I lost to Mach last tourney but hopefully I can learn a move to cancel rl
Because sadly i find it hard to beat
You can't shield it because it stuns enough for ivy to pressure with nair or simply grab
So that's something else about the ivy match up

 

[KenboCalrissian]

In this video showcasing different situational Ivysaur tactics, Machiavelli highlights some weird interactions between Ivysaur's neutral-B and Olimar's pikmin at 2:33

http://youtu.be/-k4NMbJtmQs?t=2m33s

WHAT.

I had no idea synthesis could be used defensively! I'm going to have to play around with that and see what else it affects...

 

[leekslap]

I am a brawl olimar main and I will share with you what I know
Since people don't apparently pikmin throw or grab here
Characters that don't sweet spot the ledge but hit away Pikmin could be grabbed before they grab the ledge
So dk, bowser, marth, roy, well anyone really except for tether characters
You can grab them before they grab and since it's a grab Pikmin can't be hit
But will grab them
And if the character happens to hit you they will grab releas them lower and at that point the characters get their double jump back but most people panic because they don't know that so usually up b again
Against Charizard
Red Pikmin are your friends if you want to camp them out because most of charizard's moves are fire based they will absorb the fire attacks also if like you guys said before if you get Pikmin on his head I believe his nair won't take them off because since the Pikmin spin with him they don't hit the nair hitbox
It's worth noting that Pikmin all have elemental advantages too
You mustn't forget those elements are not just cosmetic
Red absorb fire moves and hit through fire attacks so moves like charizard's b or over b won't do anything
You can fsmash Kirby through his fire Kirby attack ect
They beat samus regular missiles
Mario's fire balls
Yellow Pikmin beats out pikachu's electric moves or at least doesn't flinch so if you latch them on they will continuously add damage to them
Blue beats squirtle smash attacks and water based moves
Because they are also an element
So if you know your line up and manage your Pikmin you can effectively camp people until they mess up because if they don't approach Pikmin will bloom whether they approach or not
Bloomed Pikmin do about 4-5 damage when latched on as opposed to 2-3 on leafed Pikmin
So if you can camp they will be pressured
Also on a lot of games I have played when I effectively hit them with a fair
I Pikmin throw immidiately because it tends to latch on and forces a panic either get up attack or predictable roll because Pikmin will do damage even while they are down
With dk I just stay away and camp
If he approaches I defend with a pivot grab
Most of them will grab him
Also I believe you guys should look into the surface terrain theory for olimar
Metal surfaces yield more frequent purple Pikmin so ideally places like pokemon stadium 1&2 and Lailat cruise are great for olimar
Depending on the region you're in Lailat is a counter pick so if they don't strike it pick it
And as for ivy knowledge
I play humble dojo and makiavelle or however you spell it
Often I am from SoCal
All I can say is Pikmin throw gets beaten by razor leaf
And unless Pikmin are directly on the bulb sweet spot they will spur spot them
Also upair beats their spiking up air
So if they are trying to spike you with it
Which they do to me just upair
Also flowered purple Pikmin eats razor leaf so if you are Pikmin throwing you can cancel razor leaf and hit ivy as well
The only thing I can't do is beat razor leaf if I don't have a purple
I need to find moves that can beat or clash without leaving myself too open because all Pikmin attacks fail against oncoming razor leaf approaches
Also ivy bair beats all olimar attacks
So either shield it or cc it because it is nasty and free kill on olimar
Also mix up your recoveries
Either recover low to avoid bairs or high to go over ivy because ivy can't go to high up but she can make it back from really low
About the white Pikmin
Either toss it out or let it bloom because they aren't too useful when they have low damage
If the white Pikmin blooms
Throw it on opponents
Let it hit once then call it back
Because hey are squishy and will die
The reason to call back a flowered white is because they will leave a flower on their head
It will gradually do damage to them like a Pikmin would so you can potentially stack it more on them if they are a low level player
Also the timer of white Pikmin on the opponent is dependent according to the damage the opponent has
So opponents at high damage will cause the white Pikmin to explode way faster or even instantly when latched on with Pikmin throw
Most players don't know that but use that to your advantage because most opponents ignore white because they are the weakest
So if you have a white and want to disrupt them and they have high damage
Throw it on them
Also purple Pikmin throw on a downed low damage opponent will basically be a ranged jab reset
So if the opponent is too heavy to chain grab up throw into purple Pikmin will cause jab reset into another grab at low damages
Also something that sometimes throws me off balance is flowered blue and purple throws are harder to follow up on light characters
So that's when yellow and red throws are useful for chain grabs or up smash follow ups
Also blue back forward and occasionally up throws are kill throws
So do learn when and what damages you can kill opponents with back throw because it's crazy strong
Also people will die easily due to poor id because they will expect down throw into fair/up smash follow up so distort them with blue back or forward throws because they are surprisingly quick too

Dat post format tho! Alright since you are a Brawlimar, lemme explain some things.

Olimar is NOT good in this game. He is luck based, easy to kill or combo, and has surprisingly low priority. His grab range and power were nerfed and his options don't flow with each other like every other character. His recovery should have been the main improvement over Brawlimar(that should be a real term lol), but his up b is broken and shorter than even Lucas's tiny rope snake tether from the Osohe castle! Not to mention he has only 4 pikmin and pikmin fall out of line randomly when you free fall now making Pikmin Throw a very unsafe option! His specials in general are less useful than they should be or waste time( although down b can toggle pikmin faster than attacks ), which brings me to the next point. Project M is so much faster than Brawl, so managing those little guys is harder than ever! His normals are designed to be aggressive and good for juggling but his specials are defensive! When playing Olimar you have to figure out if you are gonna play an aggressive juggler that only uses normals, or a campy bait and punish that has a decent mix of everything. I prefer going aggro cuz no way you are going to survive defensively with those stats. My favorite moves are dash attack, down smash, fair, nair, up tilt, up smash, and dair as in the ones I use 80% of the time.

People say Olimar has potential but you'd have to need less than a split second to know your pikmin to reallly bring it out. If you already knew this, it doesn't matter cuz I just wanted to rant somewhere lol!

 

[steelguttey]

dude. everyone is good inthis game except jigglypuff. just because olimar got nerfed doesnt make him bad lol. and no, his specials arent defensive at all. up b is recovery and side b (with a purple at least) is one of the best offensive projectiles in the game. a common misconception with olimar is that he needs do either play defensively or offensively the whole match but really you can be a mix of both. the best olimar is a xpecial passive aggresive one that baits with pivot grabs but when they open up goes in. olimar is fine in this game. he just needs a better up b and no more rng, his priority is fine and his weight isnt ap roblem cause hes tiny and has a stupid combo game to makeup for it

 

[leekslap]

dude. everyone is good inthis game except jigglypuff. just because olimar got nerfed doesnt make him bad lol. and no, his specials arent defensive at all. up b is recovery and side b (with a purple at least) is one of the best offensive projectiles in the game. a common misconception with olimar is that he needs do either play defensively or offensively the whole match but really you can be a mix of both. the best olimar is a xpecial passive aggresive one that baits with pivot grabs but when they open up goes in. olimar is fine in this game. he just needs a better up b and no more rng, his priority is fine and his weight isnt ap roblem cause hes tiny and has a stupid combo game to makeup for it

I agree I was just listing all the cons. His priority is not fine. If it were a little faster, Olimar would be so much better. I love Olimar, but it is my humble opinion that him, Jigglypuff, and maybe Ganon are the worst characters NOT Tink and G&W! His MU spread is not the best because he has trouble against pressure, projectiles, range, and gimping alike. But it's to be expected since he is a newish character from the latest version. Same thing happened with Icies and Yoshi. Compared to other characters his strengths aren't as impressive as you say. 3.5 better fix him up!

 

[steelguttey]

he shouldnt be grouped with jigglypuff and ganon lol. he has really good oos options (usmash, short hop nair dsmash etc) so it isnt hard for him to deal with pressure. he goes even or better with any character without a sword (or shine)

 

[Dandizzle]

Who the **** is saying Tink and GnW are the worst characters in the game currently? I wouldn't even put them in the bottom 10.

 

[B.W.]

Oh yeah, neutral-B is silly.

Ivysaur matchup can be pretty hard. Ivysaur out ranges Olimar from the front and the back. Not when she's above Olimar though.

In neutral you have to be patient and you have to react quickly. Olimar has the lucky advantage of being small which let's you get around F-Air and her projectiles. Wavedash OoS is your best friend. Once you get in you can combo Ivysaur to stupid amounts of damage. She's also fairly floaty so she gets star KO'd pretty easily.

Stages are kind of personal preference. I prefer medium stages because I have room to breathe and but I'm also able to kill Ivysaur at a reasonable amount of damage.

I still like Lylat.

Also on the topic of throwing Pikmin. I don't think it's something you should never do. True she can U-Air, D-Air, or U-Smash them for healing and charge, but those three attacks are some of her most punishable. You can get big damage on Ivy should she choose to use those moves.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Also on the topic of throwing Pikmin. I don't think it's something you should never do. True she can U-Air, D-Air, or U-Smash them for healing and charge, but those three attacks are some of her most punishable. You can get big damage on Ivy should she choose to use those moves.

It is true that you can set up traps if you're expecting her to react in one of three ways, but an experienced Ivy won't let that happen. You're probably waiting for her to respond, so she could instead hit you with RL and them break off the Pikmin while you're caught in multi-hit or coming out of shield (though the extra damage the Pikmin does in the meantime does negate the healing). Besides that, usmash is very quick, especially if L-canceled. So yeah, there definitely are situations where you can get some work done, but it's not easy.

I definitely agree with keeping Ivy over your head. It's very hard to get back on the ground with an Olimar beneath us.

 

[B.W.]

Ripple just played an Ivysaur at SMYM with Olimar. I'll link the VOD when I get home.

 

[Ripple]

www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/563487101?t=2h39m30s

pretty bad play from me, I was TOing and it was one of my first games of the day. he plays a lot different than denti

 

[B.W.]

Ripple stop playing Olimar so I can be the only Olimar player in the world again.

 

[steelguttey]

hey, dude.

come on man there are dozens of us

 

[B.W.]

More like half a dozen.

 

[steelguttey]

surprisingly r/ssbpm has alot of olimar players

 

[Dandizzle]

Well players on the subreddit doesn't really mean a tourney goer. Olimar was above Jiggs in the usage listing on smashboards, even though that isn't completely accurate.

 

[SShane]

I think that olimar vs ivy is bad for olimar but not that bad, he gets juggled really hard by every character but with ivy one grab could lead to an easy follow up up-b for the kill

Avoiding this takes some practice you got to avoid RAZOR LEAF if you don't you are going to die the best options would be either jumping over it or power shield but if you do that then you must make sure you power shield and not just regular shield or you are very vulnerable DO NOT throw pikmin at ivy for camping they get blown away by her neutral b then die forcing you to start the blooming process with no one has time for.

Mainly just wait for him to mess up then pivot grab yours should out range her regular grab and once she's above you in the this becomes a better mu you should either u-smash or u-air to put on some good percent

 

[steelguttey]

s/o to ss for reminding me to update this ****. lemme finish this game and ill set up next week

 

[steelguttey]

Spoiler: Ivysaur

that starts the jigglypuff week.