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...Olimar?!?! I need help

rofljont

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
113
Location
Culver City
I feel like olimar is the only matchup I am afraid of while playing snake.

I get really frustrated when pikmin start racking up damage, and every time i try and punish anything with f-tilt they shield. Grabs are also annoying.

What are the best ways to play against olimar? The only time I can get a real advantage is when I really get into there head, but I need a more concrete way to win because mind games aren't that reliable.
 

.AC.

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
1,122
grab----->Dthrow------Doom!!

Lolimar has the worst/slowest/shortest roll in the game,with good tech chasing it can easily mean death or at least high damage for him.
 

Bladewing

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
100
Location
Freehold, NJ
I don't think the problem is olimar, i think the problem is that the people you play who main olimar are better than you. Not trying to be mean or anything, just saying what experience has taught me.
 

AdmiralComrade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Australia
Most olimars that ive played have some sort of pattern in their actions try to find that pattern so u kno what they're going to do
 

gallax

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
5,641
Location
Orlando(UCF), Fl
learn to set up c4 traps in the middle of using nades and explosions. also, you can learn to predict the pivot and spotdodge and then if you know that they are going to shield just grab them.
 

Exia 00

Smash Champion
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
2,024
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I'm pretty sure jabs stops pikmin in their tracks (when he throws them). I always cp Halberd against olimar. I don't know if it's a good cp but it works for me. Just try to beat his pattern, which will gradually become obvious. Camp some grenades, Jab his pikmin when he trows them, he will approach with a grab (usually) so dodge or avoid with a different method and punish. Also, olimar has an... annoying uair. If you are on a platform, shield drop grenades :colorful:

Avoid Luigi's mansion and FD x__x
:034:
 

rofljont

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
113
Location
Culver City
I don't think the problem is olimar, i think the problem is that the people you play who main olimar are better than you. Not trying to be mean or anything, just saying what experience has taught me.
ummm who are you again, i beat every other character i play against...

like fiction, leepuff teba...

im ranked 11th in socal olimar is just my worst match up, i didnt ask for u to tell me u think im bad
 

AdmiralComrade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Australia
what i forgot to add is, just take advantage of olimars weak recovery offstage (he can easily be edge hogged and edge guarded. For this reason rainbow road is a good CP since he cant latch on to anything) but u probrably kno that anyways, the problem is just getting him off stage.

the olimar ive played throws pikmin till i use jab to hit it off and hit incoming pikmin but then i get grabbed by a pikmin which sucks. or he throws two pikmin which latch on and grab u so the pikmin can damage u, (different people have a differnt pattern so find his pattern). so once u find this out u can predict the grab

What Galax said is prolly true but i havent tried it myself, since pikmins range isnt that large if u C4 the middle u force him to approach if u are standing on the edge (tho i havent tried this the theory seems practical)

also he will try to get u in the air as much as he can so try get to the ground asap, dont spam mortar slide as he can just grab u out of it with his annoying grab =[

if ur near the edge dont cyper and go up next to the ledge cause he'll d-air spike u =[ lol just cyper -> and drop a c4 and blow urself up (only if theres no c4 on stage which u have to detonate first to c4 recover, if thats the case then risk it and hope he makes a misake)

what i tend to notice is if u pressure olimar and not let him have a moment to take out pikmin his pikmin numbers will go down (at this stage he will panic to get more pikmin out) and if he tries to pull one out he 'should' get punished off stage and since he has a low number of pikmin his recovery is worse :D (huzzah) lol


Edit: Also dont let olimar get into ur mind and make u fustrated, that the worst thing u can do. calm down. I know Olimar can get 50% from 0% if u mess up once (double pikmin, grab, d-throw to f-air but this only works on low % so dont worry too much) but after he will have a hard time trying to get damage if u play correctly. just get ur mindset correct, or else ull make more mistakes for him to pounce on.

I don't think the problem is olimar, i think the problem is that the people you play who main olimar are better than you. Not trying to be mean or anything, just saying what experience has taught me.
What i reckon is people dont KNOW how to play agasint olimar (i mean how many olimar do u see??) the problem is that sure you've read stuff on smashboards on how to play him and stuff but u havent really played agasint one to see how he actcually works. So saying that is completely false.

although if u interperet "better" as knowing how to play agasint a snake, and the snake not knowing how to play olimar then yes that is true
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
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planking while watching anime with Fino
First off:

Pick a secondary, this matchup is far more work then just doing so. Really, why bother learning this matchup if you can go counterpick his *** and **** him with far less effort?



Also:

Who are you? I'm SoCal and you don't ring a bell as a top player.. :/ (I take your word however)


what i forgot to add is, just take advantage of olimars weak recovery offstage (he can easily be edge hogged and edge guarded. For this reason rainbow road is a good CP since he cant latch on to anything) but u probrably kno that anyways, the problem is just getting him off stage.
Rainbow Road is Mario Kart buddy.

You're thinking Rainbow Cruise - a stage where Olimar can dominate. There are plenty of platforms for him to abuse and you have to constantly be in the air during certain parts. Our C4/Mines become almost useless due to the stage moving constantly, and the 2 main parts have plenty of things for Olimar to live in. At higher %'s on the 'top phase' he can grab you and let his pikmin desynch from him (while holding onto the grab) and you fall to your death.

Snake has a harder time edgehogging Olimar. Sure, you can just hold onto the ledge. Then you risk being stage-spiked, and while possible to tech - it sure is hard. Do you really want to risk what possibly may be a match on your ability to tech his up-B? To early - and he tethers the ledge. To late - you airdodge and fall to your doom unable to use Cypher in time.

Snake doesn't have tools like Pit/MK/Link/Lucas/TL/Samus do to edgehog people. He can't easily refresh invincibility frames.
the olimar ive played throws pikmin till i use jab to hit it off and hit incoming pikmin but then i get grabbed by a pikmin which sucks. or he throws two pikmin which latch on and grab u so the pikmin can damage u, (different people have a differnt pattern so find his pattern). so once u find this out u can predict the grab
If you can find a pattern in the Olimar - he's doing it wrong. He will continue camping you with Pikmin Toss until you approach. If by some miracle you start to out-camp him. He will space very carefully and bait your attacks so he can grab you. No smart Olimar main would just rush in, that's how he ends up losing.
What Galax said is prolly true but i havent tried it myself, since pikmins range isnt that large if u C4 the middle u force him to approach if u are standing on the edge (tho i havent tried this the theory seems practical)
Olimar has something called a jump. Unless the stage is larger then Final Destination - you will not force him to approach by having a C4 in the middle of the stage. Any mortarslides when he jumps will be daired, or if he's still high up in the air; whistle > nair > utilt. Hey look, you're in the air.
also he will try to get u in the air as much as he can so try get to the ground asap, dont spam mortar slide as he can just grab u out of it with his annoying grab =[
Finally some truth.

if ur near the edge dont cyper and go up next to the ledge cause he'll d-air spike u =[ lol just cyper -> and drop a c4 and blow urself up (only if theres no c4 on stage which u have to detonate first to c4 recover, if thats the case then risk it and hope he makes a misake)
You shouldn't be recovering close to the edge against anyone. Whether they can spike or not - because they can grab. I'd rathers take 34% (or less given my damage) then die instantly due to be grabbed/spiked.

If you do need to risk it, practice SDI'ing towards the stage and teching the lip. If you get lucky enough you may pull a ninja like I did and SDI onto the stage. (I had a Marth spike me while I was BELOW the ledge of Final Destination (but not under the lip...) and I SDI'd and langed on stage... from below it...from a spike...)
what i tend to notice is if u pressure olimar and not let him have a moment to take out pikmin his pikmin numbers will go down (at this stage he will panic to get more pikmin out) and if he tries to pull one out he 'should' get punished off stage and since he has a low number of pikmin his recovery is worse :D (huzzah) lol
Olimar can auto-smash from a Pikmin Pluck. Plucking a pikmin takes almost no time at all. Also if the Olimar is panicking to get more Pikmin, he's doing something wrong. He can bait and punish with nair > utilt, or a well timed and spaced dtilt/ftilt. Dtilt can lead to utilt as well - which then gives him plenty of time to pluck some pikmin.

Also, if he has a low amount of Pikmin he can simply toss them. 0 Pikmin > 4 or less Pikmin in terms of recovering. Olimar gets a larger boost forward and overall it's simply better.

Edit: Also dont let olimar get into ur mind and make u fustrated, that the worst thing u can do. calm down. I know Olimar can get 50% from 0% if u mess up once (double pikmin, grab, d-throw to f-air but this only works on low % so dont worry too much) but after he will have a hard time trying to get damage if u play correctly. just get ur mindset correct, or else ull make more mistakes for him to pounce on.
Double pikmin, grab, dthrow, fair makes little sense. What do you mean by double pikmin? And dthrow > fair is easy to avoid. Dthrow > fsmash is better at low %'s.

I think you're thinking of:

Grab > Dthrow > grab > dthrow > up smash > uair.


What i reckon is people dont KNOW how to play agasint olimar (i mean how many olimar do u see??) the problem is that sure you've read stuff on smashboards on how to play him and stuff but u havent really played agasint one to see how he actcually works. So saying that is completely false.
I base most of my playing of theorycraft and reading Smashboards and throwing in a little personal experience from WiFi for my matchups. Has yet to steer me wrong.

I just took the smart way - I don't play Snake vs Olimar anymore. If anything, I do Olimar ditto's. (Only person that scares me/that I know of to play Olimar is Skank.)
although if u interperet "better" as knowing how to play agasint a snake, and the snake not knowing how to play olimar then yes that is true
It's easy to figure out:

Most Olimar mains have faced many Snakes.

Most Snake mains have faced few Olimars.
 

AdmiralComrade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Australia
Rainbow Road is Mario Kart buddy.

You're thinking Rainbow Cruise - a stage where Olimar can dominate. There are plenty of platforms for him to abuse and you have to constantly be in the air during certain parts. Our C4/Mines become almost useless due to the stage moving constantly, and the 2 main parts have plenty of things for Olimar to live in. At higher %'s on the 'top phase' he can grab you and let his pikmin desynch from him (while holding onto the grab) and you fall to your death.

Snake has a harder time edgehogging Olimar. Sure, you can just hold onto the ledge. Then you risk being stage-spiked, and while possible to tech - it sure is hard. Do you really want to risk what possibly may be a match on your ability to tech his up-B? To early - and he tethers the ledge. To late - you airdodge and fall to your doom unable to use Cypher in time.

Snake doesn't have tools like Pit/MK/Link/Lucas/TL/Samus do to edgehog people. He can't easily refresh invincibility frames.
oops >.> my bad and i dont kno i CP Rainbow cruise and i dont rely on my mines and c4 that often (except on the boat itself)

well.. i dont kno edge hogging sounds much easier than u make it sound.. unless im analysisng what u said incorrectly, its not like your going to be hanging on the edge waiting for him to upB and to tech the edge.. what i try to do is mortar and then go for the edgehog, if the edge hog fails and olimar get on the stage a mortar will hit him, if not ur invici frames is enough (unless im a mircle worker) to make him miss the upB and fall to his death.

and the airdodge thing i didnt really get.. so can u please explain? cause when i edge hog no airdodges used.. so im a bit confused there xP sorry.

Olimar has something called a jump. Unless the stage is larger then Final Destination - you will not force him to approach by having a C4 in the middle of the stage.
Yeah i guess that is true~

You shouldn't be recovering close to the edge against anyone. Whether they can spike or not - because they can grab. I'd rathers take 34% (or less given my damage) then die instantly due to be grabbed/spiked.
well i didnt really say do it against other characters and sometimes this is envitable i had situations where i was near the edge w/o a second jump in which i had to cypher (which still ended up me being spiked by olimar cause he predicted where ill c4 recovery myself too


(I had a Marth spike me while I was BELOW the ledge of Final Destination (but not under the lip...) and I SDI'd and langed on stage... from below it...from a spike...)
nice. :D lol

Olimar can auto-smash from a Pikmin Pluck. Plucking a pikmin takes almost no time at all. Also if the Olimar is panicking to get more Pikmin, he's doing something wrong.
if hes doing something wrong why not capitalise on it? hes bound to do somthing wrong (as will snake players)

I think you're thinking of:

Grab > Dthrow > grab > dthrow > up smash > uair.
sry, seems like i wasnt thinking at all x.x i didnt really make sence did i >.>

I base most of my playing of theorycraft and reading Smashboards and throwing in a little personal experience from WiFi for my matchups. Has yet to steer me wrong.
well ditto, but initially i made mistakes because i didnt really kno how it worked and ive noticed just by reading u wont really learn a thing until u do it and test what works for u.. well maybe ur special =(

It's easy to figure out:

Most Olimar mains have faced many Snakes.

Most Snake mains have faced few Olimars.
Yes.. yes. it is
 

Nic64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,725
Pick a secondary, this matchup is far more work then just doing so. Really, why bother learning this matchup if you can go counterpick his *** and **** him with far less effort?
from my limited experience I'd agree, olimar gives me more trouble than DDD or any of snake's other supposed counters, I do better with characters I don't practice much...need to try some new things against him though

so, favorite olimar countering secondaries? I like marf
 

Dominic

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
159
wow reading susa makes my head hurt

dodge + diferently timed ftilt is good as it quite often hit when he tries to grab you
 

Black_Heretic

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,895
Location
Norcal
from my limited experience I'd agree, olimar gives me more trouble than DDD or any of snake's other supposed counters, I do better with characters I don't practice much...need to try some new things against him though

so, favorite olimar countering secondaries? I like marf
I also use Martha, but sometimes MK or ROB though, Rob seems to work pretty good now that I think of it so I should try that some more >.>
 

Bizkit047

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
1,632
I can't stand this matchup either. I rather fight DDD than Olimar. I go even with IcyLight's Olimar, so maybe I can give some advice.

As said, Dthrow greatly hurts Olimar. If you're good at tech chasing it's tough for the Olimar to avoid getting tech chased for a good amount of percents.

I think the real problem in this matchup for Snake is approaching. Olimar can easily outcamp Snake, but Snake can't easily camp Olimar. Pikmin spam can stop nades, Olimar can easily grab a snakedash, and pivot grabbing for Olimar works really well against Snake. I would have to say approach only when a nade lands near Olimar. That way he can't grab you easily. Without Olimars grab, this would be much easier of a matchup for Snake. However, if you know you're going to get grabbed, try ftilting, you can ftilt out of it sometimes.

When you do get up close to Olimar, try to figure out how the Olimar reacts. If he sidesteps, punish it with a grab to start tech chasing. If he holds shield, grab. If he rolls, punish, etc. Don't get too ftilt happy up close, because Olimar can bring up his shield pretty fast after his attacks.

Edgeguarding Olimar is extremely important to do. Do not ever let Olimar just get back onto the stage without a fight. Recovery is Olimar's greatest weakness, so exploit that. The most effective thing to do if the Olimar is definitely close enough to get back onto the stage after an Up B is to force the Up B onto the stage by holding onto the ledge until right before he Up Bs, so he won't grab the ledge. If you get up fast enough, you can just Bthrow him back off stage or utilt for a KO if at a high percent. I wouldn't chase Olimar off stage, since smart ones will whistle cancel any attacks you try to do and you'd be endangering your stock.

Hope this helps.
 

noodles

Smash Champion
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
2,309
look at the colors.

purple:chances are hes going to toss pikmin. at high percents most likely upsmash
yellow:any smash mostly like regardless of percent due to ******** hitbox
blue:grab. almost always a grab, especially at high percents since it kills
red: PH1R3
white:most like hes gonna throw it since it doesnt 5% percent every time it hits and racks up damage.

dont let the pikmin get to you (when hes throwing them). then just know how close you can be without getting hit

if you predict a grab i suggest you roll instead of side dogging. if you predict it and side dodge immediately depending on how far away you are youll get grabbed due to how long it takes the pikmin to get to you.

but yeah keep an eye on the colors since most olimars use them for the reasons i listed above.
 

xsephirot

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
90
look at the colors.

purple:chances are hes going to toss pikmin. at high percents most likely upsmash
yellow:any smash mostly like regardless of percent due to ******** hitbox
blue:grab. almost always a grab, especially at high percents since it kills
red: PH1R3
white:most like hes gonna throw it since it doesnt 5% percent every time it hits and racks up damage.

dont let the pikmin get to you (when hes throwing them). then just know how close you can be without getting hit

if you predict a grab i suggest you roll instead of side dogging. if you predict it and side dodge immediately depending on how far away you are youll get grabbed due to how long it takes the pikmin to get to you.

but yeah keep an eye on the colors since most olimars use them for the reasons i listed above.
Actually Red pikmin has the best upsmash and upair. It absolutely *****.
The yellow ones will be used to start combos.
 

rofljont

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
113
Location
Culver City
First off:


Also:

Who are you? I'm SoCal and you don't ring a bell as a top player.. :/ (I take your word however)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171141






[/QUOTE] You shouldn't be recovering close to the edge against anyone. Whether they can spike or not - because they can grab. I'd rathers take 34% (or less given my damage) then die instantly due to be grabbed/spiked.

If you do need to risk it, practice SDI'ing towards the stage and teching the lip. If you get lucky enough you may pull a ninja like I did and SDI onto the stage. (I had a Marth spike me while I was BELOW the ledge of Final Destination (but not under the lip...) and I SDI'd and langed on stage... from below it...from a spike...) [/QUOTE]

trust me i understand this, next time u come to a tourney i promise ill show u some things about snake no one knows :)

i cant get it to look right with the quotes
 

Gindler

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
2,442
Location
Orlando (UCF)
He really is a power ranker, never knew they divided states into north and south must just be a cali thing.

Let me start off with this hint, don't try and nade camp. Pikmin just stop them mid air while the other 4 he throws latches onto you, Utilt knocks them off the best since Ftilt doesn't do anything half the time (of course then Utilt isn't fresh). It's not that bad of a matchup from what I've seen, you just can't do the usual snake camping. Oh, and yeah that Dthrow is beast on oli.
 

SuSa

Banned via Administration
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Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,508
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planking while watching anime with Fino
You shouldn't be recovering close to the edge against anyone. Whether they can spike or not - because they can grab. I'd rathers take 34% (or less given my damage) then die instantly due to be grabbed/spiked.

If you do need to risk it, practice SDI'ing towards the stage and teching the lip. If you get lucky enough you may pull a ninja like I did and SDI onto the stage. (I had a Marth spike me while I was BELOW the ledge of Final Destination (but not under the lip...) and I SDI'd and langed on stage... from below it...from a spike...)
trust me i understand this, next time u come to a tourney i promise ill show u some things about snake no one knows :)

i cant get it to look right with the quotes[/QUOTE]

.... wow, good thing I didn't end up brawling Havok for the rights to the name. :-D I would've lost it the hard way. :laugh: #10..... :laugh:

Not sure when the next tourney I'm going to is, but you'll recognize my name. :p
 

Dominic

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
159
i played a few games today, and i actualy think that snake can outcamp olimar.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Feb 28, 2008
Messages
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Minnow Brook
You shouldn't be recovering close to the edge against anyone. Whether they can spike or not - because they can grab. I'd rathers take 34% (or less given my damage) then die instantly due to be grabbed/spiked.
Olimar is actually the only character that cant Cypher Grab Snake. Olimar's grabs travel along the stage and will not grab snake if he is not on it.
 

Nic64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,725
Let me start off with this hint, don't try and nade camp. Pikmin just stop them mid air while the other 4 he throws latches onto you, Utilt knocks them off the best since Ftilt doesn't do anything half the time (of course then Utilt isn't fresh). It's not that bad of a matchup from what I've seen, you just can't do the usual snake camping. Oh, and yeah that Dthrow is beast on oli.
So you don't nade camp... and you approach Olimar with Snake. Sounds like a formula for success to me.
 

Panix

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
583
Location
NJ, Barnegat
he'll prolly go for the spike then =P so be very afriad :D lol cypher grab isnt that bad.. u can recover more easily then spike lol
Nah, Spiking takes way more spacing then a cypher grab, I usually see the spike comming and airdodge and grab the ledge, or land on the stage and now the olimar is in the fray and I'm on stage, somewhere I want to be aginst an olimar, Honestly. I rarely get spiked by olimars I just was always afraid of the cypher break so I c4 recovered without going near the stage.
 

SuSa

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@Hilt

That isn't entirely true. Search up "Ledge grab".

There are certain places near the edge that the Olimar can still grab you and Cypher grab you. It's just harder and you have to really fail for it to happen.


Edit:

SDI'ing spikes so well that you land ON the stage is fun. :s had it happen to me... and I've done it once.
 

AdmiralComrade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Australia
SDI'ing spikes so well that you land ON the stage is fun. :s had it happen to me... and I've done it once.
^ i fail at this lol never done it be4.. lol (can u tech if u travel parallel to the stage) iunno how u call it but when u follow the stage's shape while going down can u press L or R there and tech it? lol

hmm i actually dont kno about olimars grabs.. ill search that up later ^^

Nah, Spiking takes way more spacing then a cypher grab, I usually see the spike comming and airdodge and grab the ledge
well, some people space it so IF u airdodge u cant grab the edge and die. Or u dont air dodge u get spiked... soo yeah... its like a big fat trap =[ lol depends on the olimar i guess?
 

nevershootme

Smash Master
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Feb 9, 2008
Messages
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Warner Robins, GA (Used to be Miami, FL)
key point in fighting olimar, olimar has negative priority, ALL ATTACKS WITH PIKMIN WILL PING REGARDLESS VS ANY ATTACK YOU PUT OUT.

-falling b-air snake vs u-smash (save purple i guess?), b-air wins.

-purple u-smash kills at 100% while red and others (except white) kill 120%+

here's a small and basic guide to knowing olimar himself written by me (I mained olimar in the past and I know how he works)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Basic olimar information

Now... some of you may or may not have a clue on how olimar works and get extremely whooped hard the first time around.

Pikmin overview

Blue (Standard): grabs, immune to water, standard throwing path
Red (Fire): hurts hard in the air, standard throwing path
White (Poison): Weak, best when thrown (6% per latch), fast straight throwing path
yellow (electric): Arc throw, somehow has a slightly longer stun
Purple (That Fat one): short throwing distance, knockback, sends people vertically when side smash. extreme knockback

Pikmin rearrangement order: red -> yellow -> blue -> white -> purple

Smash attacks

-a note on All smash attacks when charged: pikmin are vulnerable to be killed
-alot of times, the smashes just mostly get pinged with every other attack (glide attack vs u-smash gets neglected)

Side smash: hurts, has a late hit at the end of attack. can be tossed off stage for the late hit. if you get hit late, it can easily follow up into the grab
down smash: uses 2 pikmin, can do double damage in the center, giving separate painful effects (burned and shocked)
up-smash: The most painful one to face. white sucks with it, purple has the power of fox u-smash in melee (you will die at 90% if not careful, applies to light characters)

ground attacks

-all attacks with the antenna touching you will do 1% but won't knock u back until u get hit from his dome helmet

jab: knockback is good, may follow up to grab if they fail to dodge in time
u-tilt: prioitizes very well and shield pokes well until they run away. it is possible to tap and smash DI fast to escape
d-tilt: pops people in the air
f-tilt: Imma kick you! decent knockback

air attacks

n-air: multi hit, can easily follow up to u-smash for kills when connecting before the last hit connects
f-air and b-air: same startup time and varies with pikmin, red and purple are best
d-air: spikes or sends horizontally, white sucks, purple hurts like hell
u-air: multihit, hard to escape

side-b

There are about 4-5 latch locations. depending on pikmin latched onto, specific attacks can remove the specific spots or all latch locations.

ex. snake dash attack, olimar jab, mk n-air

throws

d-throw: the essential starter combo for an instant 30-40% (d-throw -> u-smash -> u-air or up-b depending on DI)
u-throw: best only with purple pikmin
f-throw: blue is best
back-throw: blue is uber

pivot grabbing

olimar players will abuse it alot

white: long range
blue: long range
red, yellow: average range
purple: way better than regular grab

key points

-kill all pikmin and u win, just don't let them pluck and run. or if they're retreating, kill them fast and avoid his approach
-monitor their pikmin order to know when to anticipate the kill attacks
-don't get grabbed and DI away as possible to avoid the instant 30% combo.
-gimp fast!

refer to this guide for deeper details on the pikmin themselves: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=185696
 

AdmiralComrade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
212
Location
Australia
hmm.. yeah when i play olimar its pressure him until he has no pikmin + gimps :D

Thanks for the info tho i think the pikmin rerangement would help trying to figure his next pikmin out, i find it hard to look at what his next pikmin is (it changes so often, and it diverts my concentration. so most time i dont really bother)
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
8,531
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Minnow Brook
@Hilt

That isn't entirely true. Search up "Ledge grab".

There are certain places near the edge that the Olimar can still grab you and Cypher grab you. It's just harder and you have to really fail for it to happen.
Yes, I know about the ledge grab. However it's much easier to do when they're actually... on the ledge. If they're not, the pikmin cannot grab snake because in order to they would have to travel off stage. As soon as the pikmin is sent off stage from a grab it enters a different animation in which it drops for a moment, does a slight jump and "flies" back to olimar. during this phase the pikmin is unable to grab any character. And if snake IS on the ledge, he obviously gets his jumps back.

key point in fighting olimar, olimar has negative priority, ALL ATTACKS WITH PIKMIN WILL PING REGARDLESS VS ANY ATTACK YOU PUT OUT.
Not entirely correct. Try out prioritizing olimar's uair. Seriously, try it. I think I can count on one hand the number of attacks that beat it out. Also, most of olimar's attacks when he has a yellow pikmin has increased priority and range. Olimar's priority is bad, but not at all times.

Pikmin overview

Blue (Standard): grabs, immune to water, standard throwing path
Red (Fire): hurts hard in the air, standard throwing path
White (Poison): Weak, best when thrown (6% per latch), fast straight throwing path
yellow (electric): Arc throw, somehow has a slightly longer stun
Purple (That Fat one): short throwing distance, knockback, sends people vertically when side smash. extreme knockback
There are a few other things that should be noted. A lot of people talk about how reds are much much better than the others for aerials, which isnt exactly true. Blues arent only good for grabs. Blue pikmin deal around two damage less than red attacks. Reds usually kill about 10% earlier than blues for aerials, but that isnt TOO big of a deal but can make a difference. Yellows however trade power for range.

Purples will almost always be thrown unless at kill percents while an opening is available. Purple toss is just too good.

Also, not many people know this but pikmin latch lasts longer the lower percents your opponent is at. For every percent you have, latch decreases by one frame, and it takes 30 frames for each latch hit to connect. Thus, for every thirty percent, the pikmin deals less damage. So at high percents, having pikmin latched to you isnt as big of an issue, though at low percents you could easily take 10 to 15 damage from pikmin that arent even whites.

Blue throws are somewhat misleading. People think that blues only have good horizontal throws, which again, is wrong. Blue upthrow kills just as fast as forward and back throws, and kills only 20% later than purple upthrow. Which, given how hard it is to get a grab with purple pikmin, is quite handy. Yellow upthrow will kill much later, but is usually not seen unless the opponent ends up living to extreme percents.

Pivot Grabs are the main problem you're going to be against as a snake player. Hell, as most anyone against olimar, pivot grabs are the main counter to approaches.

downthrow -> fsmash (yellow) -> Regrab -> Downthrow -> usmash -> uair is a legitimate combo, other than the uair at the end which may be difficult to hit with, and deals anywhere from 50 - 60 percent depending on the pikmin used. I've used the combo several times on snakes and it's extremely fun :D

-kill all pikmin and u win, just don't let them pluck and run. or if they're retreating, kill them fast and avoid his approach
I'm not sure if people consider this a viable strategy, but it doesnt work. Pikmin can only be damaged if they were previously used for an attack, were desync'd from olimar for some reason, or for a brief moment when olimar uses his whistle. And even if you do manage to kill his pikmin, it takes 9 frames to pluck a new one. He doesnt have to pluck a completely new line, just one or two to be able to defend himself long enough to pull out more.
-monitor their pikmin order to know when to anticipate the kill attacks
Probably the Best advice I've seen in this thread. Not enough people do this, but when done most olimars are really predictable.

I'll probably end up throwing out more advice later on. I have quite a bit of experience against snake, and it doesnt seem any olimar main other than myself has posted in this thread yet.
 

nevershootme

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
3,787
Location
Warner Robins, GA (Used to be Miami, FL)
hilt, I do agree on your comments, but lately i've been out of the loop on my olimar (like the only few knowledgable and experienced ones in FL) and i'm kinda behind on the new knowledge and i wrote it as a basic overview, nothing advanced.

yea he was my main during the start of brawl but then i switched off in the later months, yet occasionally I use him as a surprise mind game vs a player. as of late, very few of FL have never faced any good Olimars at all
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
8,531
Location
Minnow Brook
hilt, I do agree on your comments, but lately i've been out of the loop on my olimar (like the only few knowledgable and experienced ones in FL) and i'm kinda behind on the new knowledge and i wrote it as a basic overview, nothing advanced.

yea he was my main during the start of brawl but then i switched off in the later months, yet occasionally I use him as a surprise mind game vs a player. as of late, very few of FL have never faced any good Olimars at all
Yeah, you're fine. Don't worry about it, man. A lot of the olimar mains dont even keep up to date all of the frame data and percentages and whatnot >.> They just know to camp until they win :laugh:

I was just bored and felt like making a long post :x

Yeah it's odd how few olimars there are in florida, what with the massive amount of DDDs I keep hearing about lol.
 

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,924
To me, there are 3 major aspects to this matchup:
1. Dthrow tech chase to rack up damage or land a KO attack
2. Juggle the hell out of him. When he's in the air and you're on the ground there are a thousand things you can do to him.
3. Dash attack. Snake's dash attack out ranges everything Olimar has and can even jump over his Fsmash and grab when spaced correctly. The dash attack pops Oli in the air so you can follow it up with a grab or something to juggle him. But do NOT spam the dash attack. Oli can just pivot or shield grab a predictable dash attack by Snake. Use the dash attack as a punisher more than anything else.

And thats about it. I'm not that stellar in this matchup myself due to having little experience in it, but meh.
 

markopoleoh

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
49
Location
Maryland
snake and olimar dont mix. id switch to a secondary, but thats just what i would do. never martar slide, olimar would esily grab you while doing so, he will throw pikmin if you try to camp nades, just use a secondary
 

Random Question

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
48
Location
Southeast
I find that falco is a good counterpick vs olimar. His spin attack negates the thrown pikmin plus his reflector is also an addition to the pikmin. Just watch out for throws and dsmashes.
 
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