Olimar general discussion

[GeZ]

Found some sillyness on battlefield. I'll record a vid and post it in a sec.

Edit: my internet is garbage right now, so getting the **** together and uploaded is taking longer than I thought. It might be a bit

Double Edit: I actually don't see my internet getting fixed within the next few days, which would keep this whole thing off for a stupid amount of time, so I'll just explain it.

When you're on the ledge of battlefield, you can tap back to let go, then immediately up b, and ledge cancel it on a side platform. At low percents it leads into any aerial, and at high percents you can waveland, to try to follow their tech, or for good positioning. Character weight doesn't matter much at low percents, cause it works on Bowser and Luigi equally well sub 20%. Going above that just means it'll continue to combo heavy characters, and it'll set up for following tech earlier on lighter characters.

It also works on Yoshis with different angle, and on PS2 with different angle and an immediate double jump. Honestly the toughest part of executing it is making sure you don't accidentally immediately double jump for the battle field and Yoshis one.

 

[TricksterNo1]

Hey shokio, can we be expecting to see a lot more olimar from you this patch? I love seeing how oli stacks up against the best Texas has, and you put up a mean fight with him.

 

[Shokio]

Hey shokio, can we be expecting to see a lot more olimar from you this patch? I love seeing how oli stacks up against the best Texas has, and you put up a mean fight with him.

Honestly, I may be using him just as much or even more than I do ZSS. We'll see. I think it's mostly just gonna be MU dependent. I used to co-main Roy but I essentially dropped him in 3.5 so Olimar is pretty much replacing him.

 

[Dotcom]

Three different top tournament placing Olimars, from complletely different regions, have all agreed he's overall been nerfed in the 3.6 version.
Just sayin'

 

[blandsabbath]

Three different top tournament placing Olimars, from complletely different regions, have all agreed he's overall been nerfed in the 3.6 version.
Just sayin'

like who? i think he's doing a lot better and Shokio is a fantastic player using a lot of oli's potential imo

 

[steelguttey]

Three different top tournament placing Olimars, from complletely different regions, have all agreed he's overall been nerfed in the 3.6 version.
Just sayin'

you mean shokio and ss, the ones that have placings in good regions that are saying hes better and are using good reasoning other than "my free grab was nerfed"?

hes better in every other way, stop sucking and missing grabs lmao. his onstage game is better, his recovery is much more reliable and his punish game got better. stop focusing on nerfs you babies.

also, top placings mean nothing in your random ass regions, nobody good is there that you've beaten anyway. this is directed to all of you

 

[Shokio]

I can't fathom how anyone could think 3.6 Olimar is somehow worse than 3.5. Like, how is that.......did we play the same 3.5 Olimar lol?

And yeah, who are these other Olimar's you're talking about?

 

[B.W.]

I hope he's not talking about me cause I'm certainly not a top placing player, I just like gathering his data and testing theories, and I definitely don't think he's nerfed lol. He's so much better over all now. Just his recovery could use a little fine tuning to make it just a little better. Less land lag mostly imo.

 

[GeZ]

His recovery being more reliable isn't much of a plus though. Like, it's super dumb easy to edgeguard, to the point where getting off stage is pretty much death. Still an overall better character though.

Edit: Also, I feel like Olimar gets overwhelmed pretty easily, I probably just gotta work on disengaging and capitalizing harder, but I dunno. Might get antsy and switch to a more fundamentals based character. Playing Melee and then going to P:M and maining a tool based character is really weird for me.

 

[Dotcom]

Z-air, less end b hitlag: perfect.
Where the videos at @ steelguttey ?

 

[steelguttey]

cant stream this week due to 4th of july and last week the venue forgot to pay internet so we gotta wait a bit ://

 

[it-a-albinomoose]

do you guys think adding his old up b as a z-tether (without the initial height cus air dodge) would be too much? with the new recovery while consistent does seem to be too slow to not get edge guarded and lose a stock the second youre off stage. having the tether back would open up options in terms of playstyle, recovery mixup, and make some matchups back to where they used to be.

with playstyle since now its beneficial and possible to work with lower amounts of pikmin, you have that choice of working with 2 so that your ground game will be better or do you want to take a chance on the rng of your lineup so that you can make your recovery options a bit less linear?

recovery mixups just allow olimar to come back from the stage in more than one direction. if you look at pretty much every decently good or better character each of them have about 2-3 good reliable recovery options/tools to the stage, someone like fox with upb and all its angles, side b and all the shorten lengths, heck even shine stalling to set up for one or the other two. with olimar all he has is neutral b for set up which now has more endlag so sometimes it cant do that the most optimally and now his new up b which is very easily punished and taken care of when olimar is off stage. it would help with matchups with something like ike, marth, or roy where no they just need to f-smash at any % and olimar will eventually die where as before you could tether below and be able to get to the ledge at least until they took ledge then you were free, but with both it would make a good mix up and have a recovery similar to link with both the up b and tether option

 

[steelguttey]

this is the spacing for a perfect fsmash offstage

 

[Dotcom]

They should do that for all of the main Starters, and CP's. That's dope though.

 

[steelguttey]

thats an album im probably gonna make later today

 

[Captive]

How I feel everytime I beat someone on Netplay and they John about the Olimane being too good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa0lMzaljTk

 

[steelguttey]

How I feel everytime I beat someone on Netplay and they John about the Olimane being too good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa0lMzaljTk

what region are you? play me on netplay if were close

 

[Captive]

Michigan. I would ove to play you mane! I need all the help stepping my onligame up.

 

[steelguttey]

i failed 7th grade social studies so is that close to long island?

 

[Shokio]

Uh, wtf is going on with the Smash Ladder?

 

[steelguttey]

its down 4 maintainence

 

[jtm94]

Neat that only Purple has a different fsmash length. Been toying with the Oli man after yall said he beat Sonic some time ago. I really thought white went a little further than the other pikmin, but I'm happy that it doesn't because it makes spacing the fsmash easier.

This character is bonkers though, not really, but tech chasing with him feels easy because of his lasting grab so I just walk Falcon around the stage like a dog on a leash.

They didn't give him any grab armor or invincibility of pikmin on attacks correct? So it's still the same as it was? It wasn't in the changelog to my knowledge, but neither was my possibly imagined change to his pikmin pluck? I'm almost certain that mid air pikmin pluck has a later IASA than it did in 3.5, but it could be entirely imagined.

Weird things I've noticed so far is that I grabbed Snake from off the left ledge on Dreamland and it was incredibly bizarre. I also grabbed Snake and it teleported him to the ledge and then back into the grab which was even more bizarre.

 

[Captive]

i failed 7th grade social studies so is that close to long island?

Midwest we aren't all that far away though. Worth a try at the very least!

 

[jtm94]

Also I wanted to know if pikmin still hit through shield??

 

[steelguttey]

Also I wanted to know if pikmin still hit through shield??

only purple side b causes hit stun, if your sheild is up against any other pikmin it flies through you

 

[Captive]

So I dual main Sheilda and Olimar and have been having troubles in 3.6. I have no idea what match-ups to play who with. Any advice on who to play who with would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Shokio]

Play Oli against:

1) Big characters (Bowser, DK)
2) Slow characters (Ganon, Wario)
3) Light characters (Jiggs, Kirby, Squirtle)
4) Captain Falcon

Sheik against faster ones. Zelda for whenever she's the most comfortable MU for you.

 

[Captive]

Guys our recovery made me sad in this video. On top of that the misinformation makes me sad. I wish holding B would adjust how far we go...

 

[steelguttey]

some stuff i found about fsmash lately

most of the time, there are very easy visual signs on what perfect fsmash spacing is, especially when theres platforms involved. a non purple fsmash will cover a ledge perfectly if you space it riiiiight at the edge of the platform next to the ledge. another big thing is that all you need to learn is the fsmash spacing for non-purples because it so happens that the distance that purple doesnt cover is the same length of oli's wavedash, so if you have a purple and want to fsmash offstage all you have to do is find the spacing for a non purple fsmash and wavedash forward, boom. perfect spacing.

god this move is so ****ing good

 

[Latch]

I've been able to stuff my friend's marth's recovery really consistently with the fsmash... not sure whether marth can side-b through it? But also, many recovery moves can hit through the pikmin so oftentimes I feel like throwing a pikmin out farther is more effective than the 'perfect spacing' one. Also purple side-b + other pikmin fsmash is really stupid lol

 

[FifthCPU]

So I've just started to main Oli and I'm kinda lost. I love the character's combos, literally every aerial is satisfying, and I enjoy the edgeguarding game,but I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to do in neutral. I've been doing standard "Marth Neutral" and dashdancing/wavedashing around while occasionally forcing approaches with side-B, while punishing the opponent's poor approaches with Dtilt and sometimes smashes, but is there something else I'm supposed to be doing? And how do I approach?

 

[eideeiit]

So I've just started to main Oli and I'm kinda lost. I love the character's combos, literally every aerial is satisfying, and I enjoy the edgeguarding game,but I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to do in neutral. I've been doing standard "Marth Neutral" and dashdancing/wavedashing around while occasionally forcing approaches with side-B, while punishing the opponent's poor approaches with Dtilt and sometimes smashes, but is there something else I'm supposed to be doing? And how do I approach?

You already said the number 1 thing yourself.

Also pivot grabs.

Those are the backbone that you build on.

Hopefully someone actually knowledgeable can you something better.

 

[Ningildo]

You generally don't approach unless you have a purple. If you do, Purple Pikmin Slide is fun and free follow ups on hit (and on block if your opponent is sleeping).

Oli's general plan is Pikmin Toss to latch Pikmin to bait out stupid stuff and punish it. If they don't do anything, free damage. Rinse and repeat.

It obviously goes deeper then that, but that's how it is in general. Feel free to ask me (or other Oli's) anything more specific.

 

[Dotcom]

Neutral is really built around side B. Getting your colors together work out your gameplan, keeping pikmin alive so that they have the opportunity to flower, and adding passive DoT to your opponent is what the cap' is all about. Getting pikmin on an opponent, so that they have to get the pikmin off, and following up accordingly.

Approach methods are your Ivysuar like Nair, spaced Fairs/RAR Bairs, and your side B.
Each one has different applications, but those are the three safest tools to approach and mitigate the game with.

Olimar's greatest attribute however are his grabs. Due to the frames and the distance, of course depending on the pikmin. Grab has astounding option coverage (rolls on stage, tech rolls, landings) and combo's into his moveset absolutely "cray".
With a combination of purples which reset a character, and his grab combo's. You can reliably combo your opponent to ~50-100% as soon as their stock starts.

Experiment with your U-Air (a majority of the cast has a REAL problem getting down vs Olimar. His yellow and white upairs, combo into a stringed up-air of your color preference. Luigi in particular gets hit hard by it) and attempt to keep opponents above you.

 

[robosteven]

Also I wanted to know if pikmin still hit through shield??

yep

 

[nimigoha]

Pikmin pluck idea I put in the Tier List discussion, what do you guys think?

Neutral pluck + 4 stick (or maybe Dpad?) directions gives you choice Pikmin but you can only have 2 of each colour. So you can't just load up on Purples and go nuts.

And if you try to force a colour when you already have 2 you'll be given a random Pikmin.

I'd make neutral pluck a Red Pikmin so if you spam B then you'll get Red Red Random Random, which is honestly not bad.

Also this system means that plucking your preferred set of Pikmin will take a lot longer than the current B spam. So it's a tradeoff of speed and potential colour-heavy lineups for consistency.

Not sure how respawn would work though. Maybe just respawn with Red and 1 random?

 

[robosteven]

If organization and order control are supposed to be such an important factor of this character, I don't see why giving Olimar a fifth Pikmin to use and automatically making him pluck one of each (and being limited to one of each color at all times) would be problematic aside from coding and side-b becoming too good.

...which is a problem with side-b and not pluck.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Is it wrong for me to compare Olimar to Marth? His aerials are basically a pikmin/sword in whichever direction plus he has a large grab range. I say that because, in my mind, that should help me fight him, but I have such a hard time against Olimars.

Also, might I ask, what are Olimar's most obvious weaknesses? I play practically no Olimars ever, though we have one of the few in existence out here in Vegas. For some reason I go full ****** and just can't fight him correctly, and he aggravates me probably more than any other character.

It could be that I specifically want to be able to beat him with Wario, but that match feels very annoying. Pikmin blocking shoulder bash makes me soooo mad.

 

[robosteven]

Is it wrong for me to compare Olimar to Marth? His aerials are basically a pikmin/sword in whichever direction plus he has a large grab range. I say that because, in my mind, that should help me fight him, but I have such a hard time against Olimars.

Also, might I ask, what are Olimar's most obvious weaknesses? I play practically no Olimars ever, though we have one of the few in existence out here in Vegas. For some reason I go full ****** and just can't fight him correctly, and he aggravates me probably more than any other character.

It could be that I specifically want to be able to beat him with Wario, but that match feels very annoying. Pikmin blocking shoulder bash makes me soooo mad.

It's hard for Wario. The only tip I can offer is to remember that Oli's combo weight leads in to free uair strings and waft combos pretty easily.

In spite of my domination game one, Twisty bodied me game two and I think figured the mu by game three. Watch what he does.

It's the only advice I can give on the mu tbh. I think it's pretty heartily in Oli's favor, but Twisty's really really good..

 

[RPGsFTW]

Christ, that looked like a nightmare. I was mad watching the whole thing, to be honest, lol.