Olimar Changes in 3.5 and What This Means For You

[B.W.]

B-Air is actually a better move for killing then F-Air is in 3.5.

In 3.02 though they were basically identical to each other with F-Air being a little faster.

What I'd like is for B-Air to not turn Olimar around when he's done using it.

 

[Ningildo]

What I'd like is for B-Air to not turn Olimar around when he's done using it.

Why exactly? I mean, I don't really care about it turning around or not (it hasn't disturbed me...yet), but what is it doing that it feels more of a hindrance then anything else?

Also, when are you going to tell me where you want the frame data

 

[B.W.]

If you want to full jump and B-Air twice, you can't because he turns himself around.

You can short hop B-Air and land and you'll still be backwards. Stuff turning you around in midair is silly to me though. I don't even like that Marth does it.

 

[Taytertot]

You can short hop B-Air and land and you'll still be backwards. Stuff turning you around in midair is silly to me though. I don't even like that Marth does it.

But it can be very useful in certain situations. For instance marth's fair usually has more utility then his bair so being able to followup bair with fair can be really good.

 

[Ningildo]

I guess it's for stage carrying combos going from Bair to Fair to Fair? I suppose it does make edgeguarding with multiple Bairs impossible (which, in theory at least, sounds solid due Bair's great knockback), but usually running off the stage into Fair to intercept them works just as well, at least in my experience. Short hop Bair turning you around is annoying at times, tho.

 

[B.W.]

It's just a nitpicky thing I have. It's not a huge deal really. It's not hard to work around.

 

[SpiderMad]

Someone make a list of the aerials that turn you around

 

[Equal]

That means Olimar can do the cute butterfly edgeguard AKA style points. And Olimar definitely needs style points.

 

[B.W.]

That's a short list.

Marth B-Air
Roy B-Air
Olimar B-Air.

 

[SpiderMad]

What a boring game we have here lol

 

[steelguttey]

were ****ing talking about 3.5 olimar its gonna be boring

im pretty sure if you are an olimar main youre a ****ing lawyer or some ****

 

[B.W.]

Olimar is fun because I like seeing people's faces when they lose to Olimar

 

[robosteven]

I like hitting people with other people.

 

[Scrambo]

I may be the black sheep here but I really like playing as Olimar right now. I haven't had a chance to practice with my friends since I got back from college, but I'm sure I can throw em around like I did with brawlimar. It's just gonna take a little time to get used to the new Cap'n is all.

On a slightly related note, anyone else having iffy results L-Cancelling his bair? I can get it maybe 50% of the time when I make contact (be it shield or other) but his fair, nair and uair are basically muscle memory at this point.

 

[robosteven]

I still have trouble consistently l-cancelling dair.

 

[Ningildo]

Eh, it's just something to grind out in the lab I think. Bair is just like l-canceling Fair, but ever so slightly later. Dair is weird because if you fastfall too early, the hitbox doesn't get out (or it does, but it's not going to hit anything), but you'd want to do it fairly quickly so your opponent doesn't get much time to react (because of l-canceling being involved, I'm assuming you're either using it as a mix up or as a combo breaker against sword characters below you).

 

[HarryTheChin]

Why does Olimar's tether have to suck so much asshole?

EDIT: Was it this bad back in 3.02/previous versions as well?

 

[Ningildo]

Because all characters got nerfed equally in terms of recovery in 3.5 unless you're a spacie and obviously need better tools to keep up with gimmick characters.

I have no idea why in all seriousness and hope that Oli gets a better recovery in 4.0, along with other buffs. And it was better in 3.02 and 3.0 (pretty sure Oli was put in really recently version wise, 3.0 iirc) solely due the fact that it had a hitbox and could stage spike people not having invincibility hanging at the edge. Being able to drop and retether with three chances to tether per air time was nice too.

 

[B.W.]

Oh, hi Harry, lol.

Olimar possibly had the best tether in 3.02 because of its hitbox and because Pikmin had more life.

Just help me bother the PMDT about making him footstool his Pikmin for a recovery instead of this terrible tether.

 

[robosteven]

Just help me bother the PMDT about making him footstool his Pikmin for a recovery instead of this terrible tether.

Thought of this on the way home from work today, I'd be so okay with it.

 

[B.W.]

I keep saying it should work like this.

Olimar footstools Pikmin and gets a small bounce, ideally one that's 2 Olimar's high, or make the Pikmin color determine the height.
Footstooled Pikmin fall until they hit the stage or they die.
Olimar can footstool as many times as he has Pikmin, but there's a delay between footstools so you can't rapidly footstool them and gain a bunch of height at once.
At the end of previously mentioned cooldown, Olimar is able to act out of his Up-B.
The peak of the footstool you can sweetstpot the ledge.
Footstooled Pikmin don't have a hitbox.

Get rid of the aerial pluck boost. Do something cool with it like give it a hitbox with set knockback and no damage or something.

 

[Shokio]

Olimar literally has the worst recovery in the game. Soooooo unreliable.

 

[Ningildo]

But I'd prefer a method of recovery that doesn't involve losing pikmin AKA basically your attacks. And I'd be fine with 3.02 recovery (with some buffs maybe) if Oli's onstage game was boosted, cause as it is now, it's pretty bad in comparison to the rest of the cast.

I mean we have:
- No real safe approaches (unless yellow aerials are)
- No real projectiles, as most of the time pikmin thrown by pikmin toss get knocked off by a hitbox before they can hit once (bar Purple toss, which, while awesome, has bad range) and is supposed to be more of an approach forcer then a projectile (which it can't really accomplish if they can't even stay on for one hit and die to any decently powered attack)
- Somewhat slow mobility

I hate this recovery as much as the next Oli main/player, but at least you don't lose literally everything with it. Yes, you're back onstage. With severe lack of moves. Maybe I'm just overreacting, because plucking pikmin doesn't take that long, but not being able to attack when your opponent is riding high on offensive momentum does suck.

Also, I'd like to have a Ivy-esque Up-B when a Purple is at the tip of the tether so we can have a ranged kill option :D.

 

[B.W.]

The biggest issue with Olimar keeping a tether recovery is the fact that PMDT hasn't been able to fix the bugs it has. If they can't fix those bugs then Olimar is better off not having a tether recovery period.

I've lost tournament matches to Pikmin falling apart on me before.

Olimar's recovery wasn't even good in 3.02 truth be told, the only time the hitbox helped was when people didn't know about its existence. Once people adapted edgeguaring it was as simple as grabbing ledge during Olimar's Up-B animation once the Pikmin hooks onto the ledge you drop and do an aerial. GG.

This new recovery would give him more options in his recovery as well. Currently Olimar is forced to recover low, which contributes to him having the worst recovery in the game.

 

[Ningildo]

Suppose my scene has yet to catch up...

And, yes, it is better to have more options to recover and to be actually able to do so, rather then dying with the glitchy tether. Question, though. What would happen if Oli doesn't have any pikmin to footstool off of?

And can I get some vids of you playing cause the lack of oli footage is irritating and I'd like to see what everyone else does with the character

 

[B.W.]

He would die. You'd have to manage your Pikmin accordingly and if you don't get too reckless your Pikmin are still hard to kill.

I think I've only had one time where all of my Pikmin were all killed by my opponent AND they got me off stage.

Also, I don't have any footage of me playing in 3.5. I might have 3.0 footage, but I didn't know as much about the character during those times of recording.

 

[steelguttey]

the footstool idea is bad

why would you want to sacrifice pikmin if you want to go deep for a kill or something

offstage does not mean you are at an advantage. not only that, why should i lose potentially flowered pikmin cause i got knocked offstage?

 

[robosteven]

in hindsight the footstool idea is still bad because Pikmin AI.

He needs an up-b that isn't reliant on his brainless Pikmin.

just give him Super Jump Punch

 

[Ningildo]

Would he enter free fall after using it or would it be something G&W-esque and would he be able act out of it (as in, he uses it once, then stops. Now in freefall or...)?
And to address concerns regarding pikmin loss, would he be able to whistle them back provided they aren't offscreen?

 

[robosteven]

Would he enter free fall after using it or would it be something G&W-esque and would he be able act out of it (as in, he uses it once, then stops. Now in freefall or...)?
And to address concerns regarding pikmin loss, would he be able to whistle them back provided they aren't offscreen?

Freefall. G&W recoveries are stupid as hell.

 

[B.W.]

That is a good point. It does take away some of his ability to go deep. The tether allows him to make it back on stage if he goes deep for a gimp and that is one of his current strengths so long as the AI doesn't decide to crap out on you.

One thing Olimar needs if he's going to keep tethering though is his Up-B needs to sweet spot where his hand is. This would allow him to cover mid and low at the very least.

One change I'd like to see from Up-B tethers is for them to have small hitboxes somewhere in the character at some point of the animation. If not the tether itself perhaps the reel in animation. Then replace the current method of them popping up over the stage when being hugged to them just going into special fall. This would kind of make them act a little more similar to a normal Up-B.

 

[Shokio]

How about his Smash 4 recovery? Where it doesn't last as long but he covers more distance in a short amount of time, and he can still do an aerial out of it.

 

[B.W.]

PMBR said they won't put any thing in the game that comes from games that vlcame after Brawl.

 

[Shokio]

Oh yeah, of course. Forgot about that.

Speaking on another aspect of his Up-B, anyone else feel like it should have it's KB increased so it can be used as an aerial combo finisher? Similar to Ivy's or Squirtle's Up B.

 

[Ningildo]

Oh yeah, of course. Forgot about that.

Speaking on another aspect of his Up-B, anyone else feel like it should have it's KB increased so it can be used as an aerial combo finisher? Similar to Ivy's or Squirtle's Up B.

Also, I'd like to have a Ivy-esque Up-B when a Purple is at the tip of the tether so we can have a ranged kill option :D.

And if we're talking about buffing the current Up-B, please let the top pikmin's antenna thing be a part of the grab box, cause it causes me to "what" every time I see that touching the ledge but then I go in special fall a split-second later. So damn rage inducing.

Seconding that Oli should latch on to the ledge by himself if in range by the jump boost given by Up-B.

 

[robosteven]

I figure that with the combined factors of Pikmin being brainless and the fact that hitting Olimar knocks Pikmin away in the process, his recovery/up-b should be REALLY good when he has a lot of Pikmin close to him, but REALLY bad when he has only like two..

Right now it's just okay at best with full Pikmin (when it actually works), and useless with one or less, and the first half of that is really unfair to the character.

 

[robosteven]

please let the top pikmin's antenna thing be a part of the grab box

This too.

 

[B.W.]

Or at the very least make them hold on with their stubby hands to better match the range of the recovery.

 

[Scrambo]

What about an Ice Climbers style Up B? He could throw the pikmin up just like he does now, but instead of attaching to the ledge, he gets (A lot more) upwards momentum?

 

[robosteven]

I'd rather have an up-b that isn't reliant on Pikmin at all.