Old-School Pros Coming out of Retirement

[Keebler]

So, recently a bunch of old-school pros Ken, Azen, and KDJ, have come back to the scene and are becoming seemingly more active again, with sponsorships and what-not.

Now, the meta has shifted a lot since a lot of these guys were in their prime, and technical Foxes are super dominant, so do you feel like they'll catch up and become top players again, or do you think that they won't learn to adapt, and that they'll soon retire again for lack of results?

 

[PhD EDEN]

I'm not sure if Ken has the fire in him anymore to compete at a top ten level. KDJ... I could see it going either way. He's known for adapting extremely well though, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Azen's strength seems to be that he approaches smash in a weird way. Tech skill will come, but I think he's still got it in him to reach the elite if he wants.

 

[Bones0]

So, recently a bunch of old-school pros Ken, Azen, and KDJ, have come back to the scene and are becoming seemingly more active again, with sponsorships and what-not.

Now, the meta has shifted a lot since a lot of these guys were in their prime, and technical Foxes are super dominant, so do you feel like they'll catch up and become top players again, or do you think that they won't learn to adapt, and that they'll soon retire again for lack of results?

lol WUT?

 

[itsbme]

The only road block I think Ken has is getting his game sense back, and adjusting to peoples reactions now. For example, he likes to uptilt Falco's on top of platforms, and the good ones always crouch cancel the hit or shield drop and hit Ken back. Things like that add up against Ken. But I don't think he's hit a wall. Actually the rate at which he's improving is kind of scary. Ken is used to pressure, and probably has a good deal of life experience that helps him deal with things that affect his gameplay. If he stays positive, he might become a solid top 10-20 with the right effort.

I think Azen would do good for the fact like someone just said, he plays in a weird way and that will probably throw people off. Azen is extremely intelligent and amazing at adapting to games in general (He quickly became the top player in Maple Story, dominated Mario Kart DS, Pokemon Puzzle League, for example) , and when he's been playing Chillin lately, Azen comes out on top a lot.

KDJ in some way reminds me of Mango, hyper aggressive. He's had some rough sets, but he's still good and shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[Keebler]

lol WUT?

Thank you for the helpful post!

 

[Bones0]

Thank you for the helpful post!

Let me rephrase it then: "What super dominant technical Foxes are you referring to?"

 

[Xx swift xX]

Let me rephrase it then: "What super dominant technical Foxes are you referring to?"

I would also like to hear the answer to this.

 

[Keebler]

Let me rephrase it then: "What super dominant technical Foxes are you referring to?"

Sorry, I should have said technical Foxes/Falcos. I was referring to players like Westballz, I feel like Mango is pretty technical.

Maybe I could've said that technical play is way more prominent in every character now though, because I feel like most of the "best" players are incredibly technical.

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

Why does everyone talk mango like he's some new school technical god

If you watch him play, every move is very calculated, and executed in a timely manner to intercept his opponents. He is no Hax$ with the tech spam.

I may be the first and only, but I would refer his play style as a perfected old school style.

But those tech foxes would not stand a chance against the perfected old school spacing and specialities carried by players like KDJ (the edge guards) and Ken (the aggression) just my opinion tho if it matters

 

[JKJ]

Mango has techskill, sure, so he can execute everything he wants to, but his real strength is his unmatched mental game and style. He's definitely not "super technical" like the 20XX meme would have you believe.

 

[Keebler]

Mango has techskill, sure, so he can execute everything he wants to, but his real strength is his unmatched mental game and style. He's definitely not "super technical" like the 20XX meme would have you believe.

That's why I was hesitant to include him in my post.

Why does everyone talk mango like he's some new school technical god

If you watch him play, every move is very calculated, and executed in a timely manner to intercept his opponents. He is no Hax$ with the tech spam.

I may be the first and only, but I would refer his play style as a perfected old school style.

But those tech foxes would not stand a chance against the perfected old school spacing and specialities carried by players like KDJ (the edge guards) and Ken (the aggression) just my opinion tho if it matters

So you're saying that once Ken knocks the rust off, Liquid`Ken>Westballz?

 

[TheRealKia]

Ken needs to learn to wavedash awful kid stay awful.

 

[itsbme]

I'm not sure what is meant by technical anymore. I mean, Mango probably can do like those insane 8 shines like hax or westballz and he could
probably tech spam like hax but it's probably not useful for him to do it so he chooses not to. Mango is probably the most technical player right up there with M2k. Go watch Mango at FP4. He does insane positioning and he does it so quickly and rapidly with high consistency. To me, being technical in ssbm is being able to be precise with your movement and attacks, and doing so consistently, limiting the damage as much as possible, to the best of human ability as possible. Mango does that better than most to the point where only a handful of players can beat him at his best. Mango knows how to win, and he has the technical ability to make it happen. Sorry, I know I'm rambling , its just crazy to me to read Mango isn't super technical. What players are out there that do insane things that Mango or M2K can't do and win. There aren't.

 

[Makkun]

I was watching a stream with Chillin, Azen, and Mango a week or two ago. Azen is ridiculously good at both Melee and PM. He has adapted very well. He was schooling Chillin and Mango both.

Edited because I said "Azen schooled Azen".

 

[-ACE-]

If you watch him play, every move is very calculated, and executed in a timely manner to intercept his opponents.

You actually just described tech skill. Mango could be more flashy if he wanted to be. He's doing what he WANTS to do... that is tech skill. Having control of your character. It says nothing about what he is capable of doing; he's going for what he thinks is best at the time or going with a certain strategy he's trained to perfect.

tech skill is 50% impressive techs and 50% never messing up, doing what you want to do, being fluid, etc.

basically.

imo.

 

[AXE 09]

Speaking of old school players, both Forward and Taj have recently re-joined the AZ smash scene

 

[tauKhan]

What players are out there that do insane things that Mango or M2K can't do and win. There aren't.

Winning and being technical are two different things. You can be technical and not win. You can also win even if you can't do everything other players do. That doesn't mean mango wouldn't be better if he learned some new stuff.
Mango should definitely learn at least ledge dashing. Shield dropping would also make him a little better.

Though I agree with you that you must really be consistent with everything you do, because if you aren't you are likely to mess up under pressure. For instance, ledge dashing hasn't really been worth it for hax recently. It's a learning process though, and I'm sure he will soon be great with them.

 

[strawhats]

Speaking of old school players, both Forward and Taj have recently re-joined the AZ smash scene

PLATINUM AGE!!! WHERE U AT SHIZ?(inb4 he comes back from usual his 6 month hiatus)

 

[Bones0]

PLATINUM AGE!!! WHERE U AT SHIZ?(inb4 he comes back from usual his 6 month hiatus)

He seems pretty busy these days...

 

[roman5hero]

forward is back?!

 

[Charlesz]

He seems pretty busy these days...

What a thug lmao. And Hungrybox was hyping this clown up.

 

[AXE 09]

Me vs. Forward:

WF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmn9_04aKcI
GF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUISfM8H3ho

 

[Keebler]

He seems pretty busy these days...

Holy moly

 

[Deleted member]

yeah, no smasher has ever been caught drunk driving!

whatever

 

[Bones0]

yeah, no smasher has ever been caught drunk driving!

whatever

I wasn't aware drunk driving was equivalent to viciously beating a woman for money.

 

[Deleted member]

I wasn't aware drunk driving was equivalent to viciously beating a woman for money.

did you even click the link and read it?

 

[rjgbadger]

I wasn't aware drunk driving was equivalent to viciously beating a woman for money.

If you were to look closely or know Shiz at all, you'd know that he was found 100% innocent of that felony charge. Instead you probably followed rumors or made hasty assumptions, which makes you a hater, thank you.

 

[Bones0]

did you even click the link and read it?

Yeah, that's how I know he was charged with aggravated battery.

If you were to look closely or know Shiz at all, you'd know that he was found 100% innocent of that felony charge. Instead you probably followed rumors or made hasty assumptions, which makes you a hater, thank you.

So you think his roommate lied about two separate incidents? I understand people like to cry wolf with the whole victim mentality sweeping the nation, but those people usually don't have "a lacerated liver, fractured vertebrae and multiple bruises to go along with the broken arm".

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Why does everyone talk mango like he's some new school technical god

Mango has relatively bad tech skill compared to the other top players, for example PP is technically much more consistent. If you watch his matches he messes up a lot of things but rarely gets punished. Mango substitutes his lack of technical consistency with extremely smart/unpredictable spacing though which is quite impressive in itself. Sometimes it literally looks like he messes up some things on purpose to bait out people.

/offtopic

 

[Oddyesy]

Yeah, that's how I know he was charged with aggravated battery.


So you think his roommate lied about two separate incidents? I understand people like to cry wolf with the whole victim mentality sweeping the nation, but those people usually don't have "a lacerated liver, fractured vertebrae and multiple bruises to go along with the broken arm".

Holy ****, I read that article way back but never knew that that was Shiz.

On topic: They definitely can climb the rankings if they try.

 

[itsbme]

Winning and being technical are two different things. You can be technical and not win. You can also win even if you can't do everything other players do. That doesn't mean mango wouldn't be better if he learned some new stuff.
Mango should definitely learn at least ledge dashing. Shield dropping would also make him a little better.

Though I agree with you that you must really be consistent with everything you do, because if you aren't you are likely to mess up under pressure. For instance, ledge dashing hasn't really been worth it for hax recently. It's a learning process though, and I'm sure he will soon be great with them.

Maybe Mango tried some things you mentioned, and didn't like depending on it. I'm no pro gamer, but i've learned in life in general you shouldn't try to do something just because everyone says it's optimal, and so and so wins with it. Sometimes you have to find your own way, even if it makes no sense to anyone else.

 

[Varist]

Lucky has the fastest fox period, but Leffen's about 90% as fast with a lot more efficiency

 

[tauKhan]

Zgetto is fastest fox.