ipitydatfu
Smash Master
if you say almost, then who has a moderately decent time against MK?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Oh dear lord, Overswarm has been given a trial by the gods
- Thread starter Overswarm
- Start date
JCaesar
Smash Hero
I didn't say anyone has a moderately decent time against MK, just that MK isn't every character's worst matchup. For example, Snake has a harder time against Falco, and possibly ROB, than he has against MK. And a lot of ROBs think that G&W is ROB's worst matchup (I personally disagree).
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
Game and Watch is NOT R.O.B.'s worst match-up. There are a loooot of holes you can exploit, especially if you can get him above you and if you're patient.
Metaknight, on the other hand, can let out a flurry of attacks from nearly every direction, so it's very hard to find any holes to poke through.
Metaknight, on the other hand, can let out a flurry of attacks from nearly every direction, so it's very hard to find any holes to poke through.
Mr.E
Smash Lord
You're basically saying G&W isn't a worse matchup because you can exploit some players' eagerness to Key the crap out of you and punish it. That's not a scenario in ROB's favor, it's you being better than your opponent and baiting them into a stupid, exploitable pattern. Regardless, G&W and MK are ROB's two worst matchups. What difference does order make? MK is merely more relevant to discuss because you'll be fighting him in tournaments about as often as you fight every other character combined. :/ And aside TL, the same CP characters work for both of them anyway.
MK still has a decent amount of "neutral" matchups. Any such characters with them would obviously have a tougher matchup against someone else, as JJuliusBond alluded to.
MK still has a decent amount of "neutral" matchups. Any such characters with them would obviously have a tougher matchup against someone else, as JJuliusBond alluded to.
ipitydatfu
Smash Master
but you said almost every character. then who are those who didnt fall under that category?
JCaesar
Smash Hero
JJuliusBond, I like it 
Yeah there are quite a few characters who have worse matchups than MK. Clearly Ness and Lucas have a rougher time against Marth, and I'd argue Wario does too (stupid grab release bull****). Actually I think MK is one of the few characters whose grab release isn't retardedly broken against Wario. And like I said earlier, Snake gets ***** harder by Falco than by MK. There are others but those are just a few of the obvious ones.
Yeah there are quite a few characters who have worse matchups than MK. Clearly Ness and Lucas have a rougher time against Marth, and I'd argue Wario does too (stupid grab release bull****). Actually I think MK is one of the few characters whose grab release isn't retardedly broken against Wario. And like I said earlier, Snake gets ***** harder by Falco than by MK. There are others but those are just a few of the obvious ones.
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
No, it's because Game and Watch has faaar less options to do anything to you when you're below him than MetaKnight does. If you're below Game and Watch, what can he do but try to get away and regroup or key you? If you're below MetaKnight, he's actually in a pretty okay position. Plus, Game and Watch's attacks have more holes in general where you can get in an attack whereas MetaKnight has extremely little lag on eeeeverything.
I think I play a better ROB than Falco, and I'm not great or anything, but G&W makes playing a spammy ROB too dangerous (dthrow --> Oil Panic = stock), so you're forced into playing aggressively, which G&W is a lot better at versus you. At least against MK, you can spam the crap out of him.
I'd vote for G&W being harder for ROB, because it takes away his whole defensive game and forces him into a battle he is much more likely to lose. ROB plays a great defensive game, which is still reasonably effective against even the best MKs, as the Overswarm vs Vidjo videos show.
I'd vote for G&W being harder for ROB, because it takes away his whole defensive game and forces him into a battle he is much more likely to lose. ROB plays a great defensive game, which is still reasonably effective against even the best MKs, as the Overswarm vs Vidjo videos show.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
ROB can Usmash Wario out of a grab release. How often do you get to do that?
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
R.O.B. doesn't have to spam lasers all the time. And there are many many many points where R.O.B. can shoot a laser at Game and Watch where Oil Panic is unable to come out in time.
And projectiles don't work as well against MK because he can close the gap way too quickly.
And projectiles don't work as well against MK because he can close the gap way too quickly.
Mr.E
Smash Lord
G&W can fall into a quick vertical attack with ******** priority or DI off to the side and try to drop on your head with any of his other aerials except UAir. What can MK do above ROB? He doesn't have a quickfall dair, his lateral mobility is one of the worst in the game, and his side aerials end too quickly to fastfall them into opponents. DAir has noticeable lag and short range. MK isn't doing anything up there but trying to reposition.
MK has a pretty fast running speed but one of the slowest aerial movement speeds in the game. I find the bigger problem with MK is more than you can't re-establish spacing once it's lost, as ROB loses range in the air and gets eaten alive from his blind spot beneath him.
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
What I meant was that it's very predictable what Game and Watch will do from that position, thus it's very easy to handle whatever he throws at you. MetaKnight, not so much. He can drop down with a tornado (which, unless he does riiight on top of you you can't contest very easily), invisicape his way down, keep you at bay with his d-air, approach sideways, etc.
Run, powershield, run. All of R.O.B.'s projectiles are telegraphed way ahead of time (unless you psych out your opponent with your gyro), so MetaKnight has an easy time just running towards you from the floor.
Mr.E
Smash Lord
G&W is only predictable if the opponent allows him to be predictable. :/ Even so, the Key can still be hard to punish sometimes even when you know it's coming since G&W has such great control over it and it produces a second hitbox upon landing.
MK's DAir is one of his few noticeably laggy attacks and is outranged by ROB's upward attacks anyway, the Cape is quite possibly his worst attack period, and he has a tougher time dropping to the side with his poor aerial speed. He certainly can't fall on anybody with the Tornado either, just hitting B to sustain the attack prevents it from moving down more than a smidgen at best. None of these are good options for a falling MK, against ROB.
As for MK approaching on the ground, projectiles don't even matter -- ROB outspaces him with FTilt. (Better ground approach than G&W, at any rate...) Projectiles merely prevent him from lollygagging. It's just hard to get him away once he's "in" and knocks ROB off the ground, since ROB is wide open from the waist down and MK exploits it very well.
MK's DAir is one of his few noticeably laggy attacks and is outranged by ROB's upward attacks anyway, the Cape is quite possibly his worst attack period, and he has a tougher time dropping to the side with his poor aerial speed. He certainly can't fall on anybody with the Tornado either, just hitting B to sustain the attack prevents it from moving down more than a smidgen at best. None of these are good options for a falling MK, against ROB.
As for MK approaching on the ground, projectiles don't even matter -- ROB outspaces him with FTilt. (Better ground approach than G&W, at any rate...) Projectiles merely prevent him from lollygagging. It's just hard to get him away once he's "in" and knocks ROB off the ground, since ROB is wide open from the waist down and MK exploits it very well.
ipitydatfu
Smash Master
about mk's cape, its scary good if you know how to infinite cape, for a reappear right behind the back attack or just fake ROB out and just reappear grabbing the dege
Yeah. ROB doesn't have to win either. Spamming lasers is key to his defensive game. Without it, you have to rely on ROB's weaker offensive game.
Like when you're playing someone that sucks?
They work well enough, as long as you give yourself enough room for MK's dash.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Last I checked that was banned at every tournament.
Someone7, there ARE plenty of times you can safely laser G&W. A lot of the time when you hit him away, there's enough hitstun that if you laser right away, he can't bring out his bucket in time. You can also pop him with a laser every time you connect with the gyro (which he can't absorb, so spam the hell out of it right at his shield). The point is, projectile spam works fine agianst G&W, you just gotta be smart about it and not fire lasers when he's standing there idle.
GenesisJLS
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2004
- Messages
- 365
Isn't there a back room thread about banning MetaKnight in tournament play? Honestly, with all this bickering the back roomers are going to eventually modify the rules. Also my favorite match up for Meta is Falco. You can chain grab him to 40% then play keep away in till 100%. You can knock him out of his tornado with down b and keep him guessing with phantasm. Even though it's not pretty, it gets the job done.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
If MK ledgecamps against Falco, Falco has literally zero chance of winning.
Sudai
Stuff here
The backroom -had- discussion on banning MK. They put it to a vote and it was 16-45 in favor of keeping MK in the game. Or so I'm informed.
Also, using lasers against GW is too easy. During and slightly after his up-b, after he puts the bucket away (lawl, sounds stupid but there's actually enough end lag and enough start-up lag so he can't get it back out in time), sniping his feet out of his shield, while he's recovering if he's low (trust me, worth it if he gets part of the bucket filled but loses a stock), during hit stun, and there's a ton more, but I don't want to sit here listing times to laser someone..haha. I went through a phase when every time I thought my friend should have gotten his bucket out, I'd ask him why he didn't and the answer was usually "I tried, it just didn't come out in time," so know your timings *****es.
Also, using lasers against GW is too easy. During and slightly after his up-b, after he puts the bucket away (lawl, sounds stupid but there's actually enough end lag and enough start-up lag so he can't get it back out in time), sniping his feet out of his shield, while he's recovering if he's low (trust me, worth it if he gets part of the bucket filled but loses a stock), during hit stun, and there's a ton more, but I don't want to sit here listing times to laser someone..haha. I went through a phase when every time I thought my friend should have gotten his bucket out, I'd ask him why he didn't and the answer was usually "I tried, it just didn't come out in time," so know your timings *****es.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Good to know. I hate this game even more.
frdagaa
Smash Journeyman
Sudai wins. No one should have to explain how important timing is, nor should anyone have to explain how proper timing is possible, even for moves that could be punished. See: Usmashing or Nairing a DDD out of his up B.
Sudai
Stuff here
Or UAiring D3 out of his Up-B when you're playing friendlies and too ****ed lazy to time stuff. : P
Save the timing for tournies, bish!!
Save the timing for tournies, bish!!
ipitydatfu
Smash Master
o0oh god, im misinformed then, i just thought that it was banned as cuz it was being used as a stall move.
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
Someone7, if you think R.O.B. has a weak offensive game, you clearly haven't played enough R.O.B.
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
Yah! just look at Maxxpower. He is one the most offensive ROBs i have seen.
frdagaa
Smash Journeyman
Hey now. He seems like a pretty decent guy to me.
Seriously though, it's perfectly possible to play ROB aggressively. It's not as easy as it is with MK, Marth, or G&W, but it's still perfectly possible.
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
Lol.Hey now. He seems like a pretty decent guy to me.
Seriously though, it's perfectly possible to play ROB aggressively. It's not as easy as it is with MK, Marth, or G&W, but it's still perfectly possible.
This is what makes ROB such a great character. He can be both defensive and aggressive while characters like G&W cannot be defensive to save their lives.
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
R.O.B. is the jack of all trades!
Unfortunately, he is the master of none.
Unfortunately, he is the master of none.
Browny
Smash Hater
OS does this mean you will use MK only to deal with other MK's, or will you actually be switching mains?
JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
Qft .
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Recovery? There's no character better than ROB at surviving spikes or coming back when it seems all but impossible.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Surviving a spike at 100%, that's some bs right there.
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
Touche. I hate having to type ten characters.
JCaesar
Smash Hero
Me 2 .
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Me 3