Official Zero Project - Now Community-based!

[Fen__]

Ok, so how exactly do I use this? Where do I put the files?

There's not really much of anything actually done yet. It'd help to read the OP fully. Also, there's a Help subforum in Smash Workshop General that will have guides on how to replace files.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

I'll say it one more time: No rigging of bones can be done right now. Until the model rebuilder gets completed, we won't be able to.

Which is likely not to come for a long time due to Kyral taking a indefinite break from hacking.

Also, if you're going to quote all of my post, at least bother to respond to what else is there rather than thinking pointing out one thing and answering it (though you didn't do so specifically) and thinking that answers the whole post.

Plus the main thing you need for a polygon swap is the polygon, the UV Points related to it, the Palettes, and CLR0's (not sure on that), as well as the textures. By mass-transferring these, I believe a successful polygon swap is possible, all that would be needed after that is re-texturing the transfered texture to make the blade appear as it should, and then vertex it into a saber-like shape.

 

[Eldiran]

@Edlrian or Someone with 3DSMAX: Could the above tutorial shed any light on how to fix any of our problems?

Unfortunately not...

@Topic: Wait a tick, does Link's sheath have a bone on it, or could we maybe take the Master Sword's bone(s) (if it has any, I can't be sure) and move it to Zero's back? Since its already rigged to the tree, we would have to figure out how to rig the Z-Saber handle polygon to the bone with 3DSMAX...

-or I propose replacing the entire Master Sword model with the Z-Saber Handle Polygon then moving it to the back. via the Sword's bones.

Well, the thing is, if we use the Zero model, we won't be using Link's bone structure at all. And if we use the vertex, we can just vertex the Master Sword into a Z-Saber.

Plus the main thing you need for a polygon swap is the polygon, the UV Points related to it, the Palettes, and CLR0's (not sure on that), as well as the textures. By mass-transferring these, I believe a successful polygon swap is possible, all that would be needed after that is re-texturing the transfered texture to make the blade appear as it should, and then vertex it into a saber-like shape.

I believe polygon swapping is possible between characters. I know RandomTBush has done it, as is evidenced by his many Jigglypuff hats. Though I don't think we have a need to polygon swap anything, unless for some reason the vertexing method can make Zero but can't make a Z-Saber.

 

[Holy Lance]

Hmm... so is the Megaman X model even in the download?

 

[TommoPuppy]

They aren't polygon swapped. Green (sleep hat) Jigglypuff has an extra modeldata. He ported Kirby Hats over the sleep hat.

 

[hero1771]

its been a week. WE NEED PPL!
ignore this post. continue with ur hard work.

on second thought, dont ignore this.
is u guys want, i could make a code, using the clone engine, to not replace link. but then again, there still would be no Link Vs Zero match.

or, i could rename the files to t.l. and make the code.
^screw what i just said^

 

[-BigSharkZ-]

Sorry if I do not have anything done yet, but as I said, the new way of vertex hacking isn't compatible with Link for now, as it messes up near the end. However, I will be able to work on it once Vertex Box 2.0 is out.

 

[Fen__]

Sorry if I do not have anything done yet, but as I said, the new way of vertex hacking isn't compatible with Link for now, as it messes up near the end. However, I will be able to work on it once Vertex Box 2.0 is out.

What exactly do you mean by this?

 

[joem3693]

What exactly do you mean by this?

i think he means that with the new version of dasdonkeybox he'll be able to vertex link to look like zero if i'm right but idk

 

[Holy Lance]

Ahem...

if someone could direct me to the Megaman X model in the download, it would be highly appreciated.

 

[Eldiran]

Ahem...

if someone could direct me to the Megaman X model in the download, it would be highly appreciated.

Sorry, I hadn't downloaded it until now, or I'd have answered.

Looking at it, looks like there are only the Megaman X textures in here.

 

[Holy Lance]

Oh... so the pictures are a Mega Man X texture for Zero?

 

[hero1771]

to be honest with you guys, i dont know why u guys are working on Zero when megaman is the main dude. no offense.

i need someone to really teach me how to make animations, wakalpaca's tutorials dont help me at all. :/

 

[MetroidMewtwo]

to be honest with you guys, i dont know why u guys are working on Zero when megaman is the main dude. no offense.

Zero's more popular. Plain and simple.

 

[RandomTBush]

They aren't polygon swapped. Green (sleep hat) Jigglypuff has an extra modeldata. He ported Kirby Hats over the sleep hat.

But I have swapped polygon data before, as with these three hats which were put over the Jigglypuff with Leaf's hat. I haven't felt like releasing any of those, though. (The crown only because I want to improve it, but the other two were just silly little experiments.)

 

[TommoPuppy]

Oh, so it is possible then? :o

 

[Beren Zaiga]

If it indeed is, I would be happy to know how to do it. *Imagines giving Marth Ragniel, and giving Ike Falchion*

Oh the possibilities~! *Starry-eyes*

*Also imagines giving Galaxia to Link and the Master Sword to Meta-Knight...and giving Falco Snake's RPG!*

EDIT: I think I may have come up with what is wrong with Zero's appearance in Brawl based off of something GameWatching said in the Minions Revenge thread.

Does Zero have any Materials on his model? Check those, as they are what results from the global lighting effects and such. The NSMBWii models have similar materials, so maybe Zero's problem is the same thing?

 

[Fen__]

But I have swapped polygon data before, as with these three hats which were put over the Jigglypuff with Leaf's hat. I haven't felt like releasing any of those, though. (The crown only because I want to improve it, but the other two were just silly little experiments.)

Is that...Volnutt's drill? What a random choice.

 

[RandomTBush]

Oh, so it is possible then? :o

Probably, but it will only work with polygon groups smaller than the originals... for the moment, anyway. I still have to figure out why expanding an MDL0 with more than one polygon group causes glitches, because I'll need to fix it for some of my model hacks.

Is that...Volnutt's drill? What a random choice.

Ee-yup. First thing that came to my mind when I wanted to try porting polygon data from a different game to Brawl.

 

[TommoPuppy]

Yeah I remember that. It was back when MDL0 importing was taking its first steps, right?

 

[RandomTBush]

Yeah I remember that. It was back when MDL0 importing was taking its first steps, right?

Right, it was.

 

[TommoPuppy]

Right, it was.

Good times... good times...

 

[Beren Zaiga]

You may think of the following as stupid, if so, please keep it to yourself or PM your outrage to me.

I just thought of something a little bit ago. Polygon swapping is possible, and so is model swapping. Then it hit me that I have seen nothing of the idea of bone tree swappping discussed here.

I don't know much about bone trees, other than they have hierarchies, and that we can manipulate them to some extent. However, I thought about some of the problems with Zero, and thought this could be a possible solution for some of them if it could be worked out.

In my personal opinion, using Zero's original bone tree is foolhardy, as he has no bone on his Z-Saber hilt, and it makes you wonder about it. I think most of Zero's animations in TvC do not even actually have him holding the hilt in his hand while he attacks, other than Dark Hold, and even then we don't know exactly how that is done, we also do not know how they animated his hands for moves like Sougenmuu, as he has no apparent finger bones to speak of.

So the solution I think is a Model AND Bone Tree swap.

Here is what I am thinking.

By putting Zero's TvC model over Ike, then the bone tree and model over to Link's file, the problem with having enough articles would be solved, Plus, this means we have Sword Bones we can work with, meaning we can figure out how to make Zero sheathe and unsheathe his Z-Saber at will via Animation and PSA.

Problems I see: The swapping of whole Bone Trees is mainly new ground I think, meaning there may be unforeseen hazards along the way. Various glitches and errors can occur, and there is the possibility it may not work at all, then there is also the problem with File Size, we would need to figure out a way to keep the .pac file from exceeding the limit of Link's.pac, or whoever else we could decide to put him over, or the idea is scrap.

By doing this, I think we would have more range of freedom with Zero if we can get it to work, we could even make the Z-Saber leave his hand if we so wished.

Though this is currently all just hypothesizing.

 

[TommoPuppy]

You may think it sounds simple, but I think it sounds impossible.

 

[Eldiran]

@Holy Lance: I'm honestly not sure. Obviously in the Megaman X pictures, there has been some vertex/animation change to his helmet and other features, but I couldn't really say how it was done.

@Beren Zaiga: Yes, I'm afraid that would be much more difficult than just adding the new bone(s) we want to Zero's original bone structure. Models and bone structures are inextricable -- a model is basically polygons + bone structure (to my rudimentary understanding), so a bone tree swap is basically equivalent to a whooole bunch of polygon swaps. And if we wanted the final result to look right, we'd need to change the properties of the entire bone tree afterward anyway.

As a note regarding how they manipulated his hands, I haven't seen him in-game, but from the model it looks like they just swapped from open and closed hands when necessary.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Look up a video of Zero on youtube for TvC. I am pretty sure Zero's hands were animated when he uses Sougenmuu, he also closes his hands into fists after teleporting in during gameplay, so there has to be some way they were animating his hands, even with how little of it is visible, this also seen in his victory pose.

 

[Holy Lance]

@Holy Lance: I'm honestly not sure. Obviously in the Megaman X pictures, there has been some vertex/animation change to his helmet and other features, but I couldn't really say how it was done.

@Beren Zaiga: Yes, I'm afraid that would be much more difficult than just adding the new bone(s) we want to Zero's original bone structure. Models and bone structures are inextricable -- a model is basically polygons + bone structure (to my rudimentary understanding), so a bone tree swap is basically equivalent to a whooole bunch of polygon swaps. And if we wanted the final result to look right, we'd need to change the properties of the entire bone tree afterward anyway.

As a note regarding how they manipulated his hands, I haven't seen him in-game, but from the model it looks like they just swapped from open and closed hands when necessary.

Well if BSZ or whoever did the vertex hack thing could point out to me the model/vertex hack/whatever it is, I could try to vertex hack it further to make it into Bass.

 

[Slashy]

http://elitesmashhackers.wordpress.com/2010/06/26/my-contribution-to-the-zero-project/

 

[oxe161]

You may think it sounds simple, but I think it sounds impossible.

well we all have our different ways of thinking

 

[TommoPuppy]

well we all have our different ways of thinking

I'm assuming your way of thinking is the wishful kind? >_>

 

[Beren Zaiga]

I'm assuming your way of thinking is the wishful kind? >_>

My way of thinking is the logical way of thinking...Though it doesn't always work out for various reasons.

 

[oxe161]

I'm assuming your way of thinking is the wishful kind? >_>

no im just saying what sound hard to may be easy to others and vice versa...

 

[TommoPuppy]

Yeah, sorry for being rude the other night. But what I was trying to say was that even if we could export and swap bone trees, it would have VERY disastrous results.

 

[JoeGrandma]

Uh... quick question, but how is Zero going to be resized? I think he had some problems with his model's materials and all that stuff, so I assume Fortwaffles' model resizer is out of the question? (Sorry for being impatient and asking everywhere, but this could help a lot of people who are having trouble with the resizer or if it just isn't working for them.)

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Okay, I just looked at Zero in-game, and he indeed has his Saber in his hand...The question is how they got it there. The polygon's themselves should have a bone that allows transition to the hand. Yet it does not have a definable one in place to allow such an action. So how did they do it?

I took a look at Zero in Brawlbox and decided to try to figure it out... Then I got an idea. What if we are missing two polygons? It would explain the absence of Z-Saber polygons where the "Ken" bones are placed, and we have difficulties with the two Polygons rigged to Zero's breast bone. Making the two saber polygons switch between one on the back and one in the hand makes the most sense, since they do something similar with Zero's hands for when he does Sougenmuu or the Z-Buster. It also makes sense because of the fact Link has a Master Sword polygon in the sheathe, as well as in his hand.

The problem with this theory is the non-existence of said polygons that would be needed to do this, and if they actually ever existed, what happened to them?

I dunno, but it seems to be the most logical conclusion to me.

 

[Eldiran]

@JoeGrandma: he actually already has been resized using fortwaffles' resizer. It worked quite well.

@Beren: that's entirely possible. I think it might be more likely that they used the Z-Saber in the same way that Link uses his clawshot or bow -- as separate 'articles'.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

@Beren: that's entirely possible. I think it might be more likely that they used the Z-Saber in the same way that Link uses his clawshot or bow -- as separate 'articles'.

By the way, I think I know where those weird lights come from in-game. Its from Zero's textures and Materials You know how in Brawlbox, when you first look at Zero, he has Green and purple all over him? I think that, along with something in his Materials is the cause, cause its emulating the Las Vegas stage lighting on Zero's model.

The Tsuya texture however I think is used for darker stages, like the Daigo Temple Moonlight stage.

I was going to suggest something else about the Z-Saber, but its already been discussed I think.

 

[Eldiran]

By the way, I think I know where those weird lights come from in-game. Its from Zero's textures and Materials You know how in Brawlbox, when you first look at Zero, he has Green and purple all over him? I think that, along with something in his Materials is the cause, cause its emulating the Las Vegas stage lighting on Zero's model.

The Tsuya texture however I think is used for darker stages, like the Daigo Temple Moonlight stage.

I was going to suggest something else about the Z-Saber, but its already been discussed I think.

I actually haven't experienced green and purple lights on Zero. The lighting glitch that happens for me is that Zero retains whatever light effect that was last on him. (For example, if Zero charges a smash attack, that yellow hue will stick to him.) Other than that, Zero's colors look fine.

You guys are using the files I posted, right? It's the most recent, with the materials fixed and properly resized, etc.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

I actually haven't experienced green and purple lights on Zero. The lighting glitch that happens for me is that Zero retains whatever light effect that was last on him. (For example, if Zero charges a smash attack, that yellow hue will stick to him.) Other than that, Zero's colors look fine.

You guys are using the files I posted, right? It's the most recent, with the materials fixed and properly resized, etc.

Then could that glitch have to do with the materials or something else in there that is making the game fill in a part of the materials that has no set value, or could that have to do with PSA cause nothing is in there telling the game to stop putting that hue over Zero?

I am really grasping for straws here... so I'm sorry.

 

[hero1771]

would u guys still want some help animating? im learning how and this would be a good chance to learn