Official Standard Custom Project - Ver. 1

[Aunt Jemima]

Looks like you are doing some Spring Cleaning, Reserved?

I've put it off forever, so great time to do it now.

But that's unrelated to customs. Unless we can grab me some glitchy Mewtwo customs that automatically make the boards good.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Punishing spotdodges with hammer bash is the most practical use for any of kirbys side bs by far.

In singles anyway...

Also ive been hit out of giant hammer by megamans up air before

 

[kirbyfan66]

I dunno, I still feel like 3231 is Kirby's best Custom set. It's just... so versatile. I guess you could argue for 3233 being better, but Quickstone is too good. And Hammer Bash > Giant Hammer, but that's just me.

I could also take this time to over-glorify 3221 but I don't feel the need to at the moment. Not until after EVO, at least!

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I'll give more details later, as I'm in a bit of a hurry, but 3232 and 3222 are now, in my opinion, Kirby's best custom sets.

 

[chaosmasterro]

I'm just not a believer for hammer bash. Aside from it helping our jump i can't bring myself to use it. Someone show me the light.

 

[Unknownkid]

3222? Reserved.... really? Is it because Hammer Bash aid your jump. Because I am still skeptical about Wave Cutter. Only time I find it useful other than 2v2 is against Rosalina and Olimar.

I'm just not a believer for hammer bash. Aside from it helping our jump i can't bring myself to use it. Someone show me the light.

Its faster and kills sooner than Hammer Flip and perhaps semi-charged Fsmash. It sad that MikeKirby doesn't use it much in his custom matches.

 

[kirbyfan66]

Jab Lock -> Hammer Bash is fun. It's a shame Jab Locking is hard to set up, though.

And 3222? I mean, I don't use Grounding Stone because I just don't know anything about it, but it's essentially 3221 but with a different Stone and Stone is interchangeable. So I'm cool with a set like that.

 

[Triple R]

Hammer Bash is overrated. At the percents it kills you might as well of usmashed. Hammer Flip and Giant Hammer open up more options IMO.

 

[kirbyfan66]

So Reserved made an interesting post in one the Kirby threads about footstools. Quoting from him...

I was gonna wait until I could record again, but Grounding Stone is now brought up, so...

Kirby can get around 60%+ on every character in game with Grounding Stone. It forces tech chases when hit after a footstool, allowing for some insane combos with Copy Abilities. 0 to deaths on Marth, 85/86% combos on Pac Man and Robin, 60% combos on Samus/Mewtwo, etc. which is amazing. Add in Wave Cutter to get 15/10% on any character, allowing you to get around 60% on everyone.

I'll go more into it later, but default Stone is irrelevant now. There's absolutely no use for it outside Quick Stone, which is already better with Meteor Stone.

Definitely something I think we should look into. Obviously as the obligatory Wave Cutter guy I have to hit the lab and see what we can do with this. Maybe 3221 isn't the best Wave Cutter set after all! (It's still really good though...)

 

[Asdioh]

The payoff for wave cutter has to be huge to take it over upper cutter. With upper, kirby has one of the best recoveries in the entire game. With wave, it becomes one of the worst. And that's just looking at recovery, let alone all the true combos and ko potential you get with upper.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

You're losing aerial space control for ground space control. The true combos and kill loss aren't really that hard considering it's a 15/10% projectile, either. The main nerf is recovery, though. While it is easily edgeguarded, at least you have a ledge attack that goes a quarter of the stage!

Wave Cutter is very dependant on your playstyle, most likely. It's most likely better on defensive Kirby players.

 

[EMPEROR Eevee]

I dunno, I still feel like 3231 is Kirby's best Custom set. It's just... so versatile. I guess you could argue for 3233 being better, but Quickstone is too good. And Hammer Bash > Giant Hammer, but that's just me.

I could also take this time to over-glorify 3221 but I don't feel the need to at the moment. Not until after EVO, at least!

I think 3331 is Kirby's best custom set and I don't even like using customs.

 

[kirbyfan66]

I dunno, it seems people either think of Giant Hammer as "really good and slept on" or "really slow, predictable, and overall just okay", and I'm definitely in the latter group. It isn't like it is with stuff like Ice Breath, Wave Cutter, and apparently Normal Stone now in which they have their uses in a lot of scenarios. It's just... slow and kind of easy to bait. It's also more comparable to Hammer Flip than either are to Hammer Bash, and generally Hammer Flip is safer and overall better.

Won't lie, though, it's insanely hype. I'm glad we have at least one set for it.

 

[MikeKirby]

Personally, I run any set that's 3X3X. I could be carrying Giant Hammer or Meteor Stone and literally not use 'em the entire match because, while each is good in their own scenario, said scenario's come up rarely or not at all. However, I wouldn't mind carrying Meteor Stone just to punish a second ledge grab after a trump that I failed to punish. Then again Grounding Stone is great in it's own situations, too! Allsksjdjd They're all great!

I actually feel like Giant Hammer might have it's merits, too. Has anyone ever played a ditto and Kirby was running it and used it? It actually feels pretty terrifying.

 

[Uncle Honey]

Personally, I run any set that's 3X3X. I could be carrying Giant Hammer or Meteor Stone and literally not use 'em the entire match because, while each is good in their own scenario, said scenario's come up rarely or not at all.

^ This. Outside of breaking shields, are any of the hammers any good in a competitive match? Charging them is out of the question. Fsmash is faster and kills earlier than uncharged hammer flip. Usmash is faster but kills slightly later than hammer bash; only slightly. For some reason, from what I can tell, fully charged hammer flip has the same KB as fully charged giant hammer. But all the above is void because all hammer are too slow to punish rolls/spot dodges/whiffed aerials/you name it. If Kirby has the read, it seems always better to go for something else.

The stones are just a choice of which way Kirby likes to gimmick his opponent. In the end, they're just gimmicks. That all I got by reading this whole thread.

 

[Zajice]

I personally just don't find much use for the hammers in regular play, however giant hammer is a great trump card to have. If you're 100+% and they're really low %, pulling out the hammer can net you a free kill without much risk (relatively speaking) because you're already at kill%. They can't hit you with any attacks or they die, because of the infinite super armor, so the only thing to be scared of is a kill throw, or a throw that sets up a kill. Otherwise, them landing a throw is just another 10ish% on top of your already kill%. No biggie. Them baiting out a swing that misses might get you killed, but really, the risk/reward is very much in Kirby's favor. If they mess up their bait or whiff a grab, they die. Nothing survives a giant hammer. Think of it like going for a risky gimp when they're off stage at really low % because you dying at 100+% wouldn't be a huge loss. Kirby also weirdly has complete control of the match when he's got a giant hammer out. The opponent cannot do anything they would normally do until that hammer goes away.

There isn't really any other move like it. Nothing except Mac's KO punch has the opponent scared of losing a stock at 30% from one mistake. And no other move let's you take complete control of the game like it does. "Alright, stop everything, we're playing this game now. Don't **** it up."

 

[Asdioh]

That's definitely true, but it's also super easy for them to just run the clock, if they're willing. However, if you're ahead a stock in that situation, you can do the same thing, putting even more pressure on them. It's definitely a viable custom. I don't even know which I prefer.

Pls Nintendo patch it so we can switch customs on the fly as easily as character colors D:

 

[kirbyfan66]

I don't like the word "gimmicky" because it makes it sound like the move is overall bad. Giant Hammer is good (I still think all of Kirby's Customs are good) and in some matchups does give Kirby an upper hand he wouldn't get otherwise. Kirby's other two Hammers are good too though (I think they're better but that's just me). I think if we were able to have more than 10 slots for Customs I'd be more than happy to have Giant Hammer on more sets.

I'd also put Wave Cutter on like 95% of them lolol

 

[Altair357]

@ MikeKirby once suggested gaining a stock lead and camping on a Battlefield platform with Giant Hammer such that your opponent would have to land in front of you to grab you. Well, I tried this in an online Smashladder set and it worked pretty well. The stage was Duck Hunt and I gained a stock lead, dealt some damage to my opponent, and jumped on one of the tree platforms to camp.

Needless to say, I won the match by time. Assuming they have their double jump and can airdodge, the only reliable time you can release the attack for a KO is during their grabbing animation, but before the grab actually comes out.

Regular landing is 4 frames, right? I'd say this is somewhat of a gimmick because 4 frames is impossible to catch reliably, but I could definitely see this being viable against characters with somewhat slower grabs like Villager's. What frame does Giant Hammer come out on full charge? Subtract that from Villager's grab, which is frame 16, and there's the necessary reaction time. For reference, the average human reaction time is about 16 frames (according to my Google search).

Okay, so it's probably useless unless Giant Hammer comes out really fast. But it's cool!

 

[Unknownkid]

It comes at out 10-11 frames based on the frame data.

 

[kirbyfan66]

I think that setup has some value to it, especially on a stage like Battlefield. I tried doing that on Smashville in a friendly once and I got him when he tried to Counter, but as someone who hadn't used Giant Hammer since 3DS launch, my reactions weren't ready for how slow it is. Still a fun trick, though.

 

[Masonomace]

I recently typed up a post pertaining to Shield art for Shulk in the Shulk board's move-set analysis thread. What I discovered were the percentages when Kirby's Ice Breath custom special was able to freeze Shulk. Here's some numbers:

Kirby using Ice Breath. Ice Breath deals around ~12 - 13% when all hits connect but it's the outer hit dealing ~6% that induces the freeze effect so I will use just the last hit.
Vanilla Shulk starts getting frozen at 0%. When crouching, freezing starts at 4%.
Shield Shulk starts getting frozen at 26%. When crouching, freezing starts at 69%.
Decisive Shield Shulk starts getting frozen at 54%. When crouching, freezing starts at 101%. (Lives at 999% with crouching. . .)
Hyper Shield Shulk starts getting frozen at 88%. When crouching, freezing starts at 142%. (Lives at 999% without crouching. . .)