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Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Zelda

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.
 

Zylach

Smash Ace
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652
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NNID
Orienlithel
3DS FC
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Zelda's customs are kinda "meh" overall but I've experimented with 1312 and 1313. Not a huge fan of Nayru's customs (smaller hitbox + turning the opponent around or slow vortex explosion that only does 4% more than our much faster and more consistent default? No thanks) and swapping the kill potential of FW for a slow moving (and visible) windbox or mega-situational meteor smash seems criminal. I guess I'd see 1212 and 1213 being used as well for the faster Din's though Din's Blaze seems better imo.
 

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
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default nayru's, default farores, no one gives a **** about the other two because all 6 of them are terrible

MAYBE shieldbreaker phantom for the consistency,

So, 1112.
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
Moderator
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Aug 14, 2012
Messages
5,047
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Considering the fact that a huge percent of Zeldas are never gonna use an alt of Nayru or Farore, then here are the combinations.

1111 (Counted out)

1211
1212
1213
1311
1312
1313
1112
1113

These are all the combinations not using alt Nayru or Farore.

And it's 8.

Of course then there are the extra two spots in case there is a very rare outlier. You can bet there won't be more than 2 in any tournament.

I bet most Zeldas that are using a custom set are doing it for Phantom. It has the most equally useable while different customs. Which can't exactly be said for Din's customs.
 
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Alphatron

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
2,269
Shieldbreaker phantom isn't very good at all.

Hitting your opponent with the phantom is already a rare occurrence. They were either off stage when you hit them or they were landing on tv he stage and you caught them during their airdodge landing lag. People are going to shield this move even less than the number of times you're going to hit them with it. That's where the problem lies because the shield breaker phantom is even weaker than the default phantom when it doesn't hit a shield.

The other problem is that it only breaks shields when it's fully charged. But the move still has no shield stun. So after the first sword slash hits the opponent's shield, the opponent can just drop their shield and take a weak hit in order to avoid having their shield broken. Meta Knight's shield breaker drill has he exact same problem where I've had players just drop their shield on purpose to take a pitiful 5-6% damage instead of taking a shield break. While weaker hits still do significant shield damage, Zelda isn't exactly the kind of character who can apply enough pressure to scare opponents out of using their shield again.

The only time I've ever broken shields with shield breaker phantom was when my opponent landed on the stage and put his shield up instead of approaching me or jumping into the air. So this move doing it's job is really up to your opponent instead of you.
 

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
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Is that Nayru's Passion? That move is garbage. A 25+ frame move that doesn't kill until 180% and only does 4% more than default nayru's? lol
 

Sugar Cookie

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
21
I think the set will be
Nayru's Love/Passion
Farore's Wind
Din's Fire/Flare/Blaze
Phantom Slash/Breaker/Strike

It just depends on play style tbh
 
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JigglyZelda003

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
6,792
Location
Cleveland, OH
Is that Nayru's Passion? That move is garbage. A 25+ frame move that doesn't kill until 180% and only does 4% more than default nayru's? lol
yes, that's why I said pocket set...for like 3 characters. Lol

I want to believe there is something there to use it for
 

Sugar Cookie

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Messages
21
My preferred set is
Nayru's love
Din's Flare
Farore's Wind
Phantom Breaker

Let me explain why I think it's good

Nayru's love ~ I find Nayru's Rejection useless and Nayru's Passion very situational. Nayru's love can read rolls and a great "get of me" Attack. The moves connect consistantly and does a good amount of damage. It also reflects projectiles which is super hand for characters like Duck Hunt and Megaman.

Din's Flare ~ This has a lot of uses and I think it's the best tbh. It's fast and can goes a long distance. It goes for poking at opponents and campers trying to stay far away. It's similar so sheiks needles in a way. The damage is also nice and consistent.

Farore's Wind ~ There is no reason to use the customs. It goes higher then ever before since it takes the jumps momentum so u should recover really well. It's also a reliable kill move and a good oos option. It kills super early like at 60% to 80%.

Phantom Breaker ~ It'll make ur opponent scared to shield and even if it hits their shield then that forces them not able to shield again. The range is also great for neutral. It's also good for recovering. You most like won't break their sheild ever but it's good for making ur opponent scared to sheild.
 
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BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
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Phantom Breaker ~ It'll make ur opponent scared to shield and even if it hits their shield then that forces them not able to shield again. The range is also great for neutral. It's also good for recovering. You most like won't break their sheild ever but it's good for making ur opponent scared to sheild.
This is exactly why I think Phantom breaker just as decent / just as useable as the others.
 
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ZombieBran

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
1,645
My preferred set is
Nayru's love
Din's Flare
Farore's Wind
Phantom Breaker
My exact go to set when customs are on.
I can't get over how hilariously bad Dins' is. Flare is also bad but at least it outranges things and does so quickly!

Phantom Breaker breaks shields even when not fully charged sometimes. It depends on how damaged their shield is. But my favorite thing is the instant range. No long charge required.
 
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Neerb

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 15, 2013
Messages
132
3DS FC
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I know the discussion seems pretty much over, but I'd just like to hear more explicitly: why is Nayru's Rejection so... rejected? It's Nayru's Love but with a Mario's Cape. Sure it's a slightly smaller hitbox, but isn't there still a bit of potential for some alternate sets? I'm at least surprised that Nayru's Passion seems to be somehow more popular...
 

BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
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I know the discussion seems pretty much over, but I'd just like to hear more explicitly: why is Nayru's Rejection so... rejected? It's Nayru's Love but with a Mario's Cape. Sure it's a slightly smaller hitbox, but isn't there still a bit of potential for some alternate sets? I'm at least surprised that Nayru's Passion seems to be somehow more popular...
Less damage, less range but with the same punish window, it cannot even knock your target away, the "cape" effect doesn't properly work very well since it hits your opponent while turning them, defeating any cape-like gimp ability.

It is almost literally just a worse version of the already suspect in viability Nayru standard.

I think you can literally get hit and turned around by it and then turn back and punish her if you have a quick attack.

Not that Nayru's Passion is much better or even really better. It's just different enough that we can hope there may be something to be useable. It's still so much less viable of a choice that standard is still the optimal set choice.
 
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JigglyZelda003

Smash Hero
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Messages
6,792
Location
Cleveland, OH
unlike marios cape rejection is slow and laggy with less hitboxes ,damage, reflect time than the normal nayrus. Maybe if it were quicker to make up for that or gave some kind of extra benefits rather than a puff box it would have a use. And iirc I'm the only one rooting for passion as a pocket wild card, its honestly really bad.

edit: Ninja'd by BJN39 LOL
 
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Hyrule Candy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
289
Location
Baltimore, MD
I like 1313

Nayru's Love ~ The other r plain trash. This got buffed from brawl. The hits now connect reliably and its good for reading techs and rolls. Also a reflecter is really useful. It also has some interesting invincibility frames like some samus Fsmashes were completely ignored by it.

Din's Blaze ~ It's just better than fire and flare and has more utility. It can limit their options when recovering by putting it in the ledge and it forces them to recover from above and some characters just can't with the ending lag like lucario. This can also be used for camping. You can put out a phantom and a blaze and that can help with stage control. This is just better. Just don't use it when they're able to run at you and attack.

Farore's Wind ~ This move is like her best move like an offensive recovery and a kill move. It kills early and its hard to predict. It also combos into itself which is a great oos option and punish tool. I think this is her best way to get a kill. Idk whut would even happen if she didn't have this.

Phantom Strike ~ The struggle to hit up close with a phantom is over with this move and it does more damage. I think that's its a better defense option too just because of the range. It loses the ability to edge guard but I'll take it.
 

micstar615

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
670
Location
Vancouver, BC
Leave FW and NL as is and I'd say pick Blaze over the other Dins' since there's more you can do with it, and I think either of the 3 phantoms is fine depending on preference. Dins flare is bad, that hitbox is way too small.
 

Cha Cha San

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
54
I like using Nayru's Rejection, Din's Blaze, Farore's Windfall, and Phantom Strike. Basically really edge guard focused. Idk why there is so much hate for rejection. Using it to hit someone who is trying to recover is pretty risk free since you float so much from using it and they flip. I don't see why passion is hated so much either. It's a mixup on landing since it stalls you before blowing up so it's an option if there is nothing to reflect.
 

Smashfan61

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
27
Being a beginner at the competitive side and in training I wonder how are custom moves used? (if they are used at all)

I really only found 3 okay ones Zelda has. I like her Phantom Shield breaker one because she doesn't have to charge it to get full range, just the power. It breaks shields and forces the opponent to spot dodge or back away. It even gets rid of the bind spot on the move as it'll drag opponents to the sword. Even her Phantom Strike is decent, sure it has no range but it charges up less and also gets rid of blind spot. Plus does lots of damage. Not to mention it does protect her. But that's just my opinion anyways.

As for Dins Fire customs, do I have to say it. Dins Flare is so USELESS! I serious can't believe it's just like Melee's Dins Fire. >_< All I have to say, I mean you can't even angle it. As for Dins Blaze, it's honestly the only one I'd go with, at least you can use it for edge guarding and isn't as predictable. It also has strong power regardless of send it short or long distance. Plus it's controllable, now only if she was't helpless in the air.

As for Farore's Wind Customs, Farore's Squall is only useful for 2v2 and Windfall is risky, but she at least has no start up lag.

Nayru's Love, only Nayru's Rejection is decent, even then Nayru's love is better. Sure Rejection has less end time, but that's just me. As for her last Nayru's Custom it's not that great, she needs that reflector part.

What do you guys think of her Customs? I may not know much, but still.
 
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BJN39

Smash Data Ranger
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The Zelda Boards
@ Smashfan61 Smashfan61 I've merged your thread with this custom move discussion thread due to its relevancy here.

For future reference, please use either this thread or the Zelda Q/A thread if you have any questions concerning Zelda's customs, or just her in general. ^ ^
 

Smashfan61

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
27
@ Smashfan61 Smashfan61 I've merged your thread with this custom move discussion thread due to its relevancy here.

For future reference, please use either this thread or the Zelda Q/A thread if you have any questions concerning Zelda's customs, or just her in general. ^ ^
Ah okay, thank you.. ^^
 

Cenizas

The Zelda We Need, But Not the One We Deserve
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Edit: I don't know what happened with the spoilers

@ Amazing Ampharos Amazing Ampharos We recently discovered many custom advancing things for Zelda and I have some suggestions. Here is everything we found about them.
Thanks to wonderful new information found by @D3RK and complemented by @ BJN39 BJN39 , we have found possible new uses for this custom move in order to escape combos. Farore's Squall has a windbox that starts on frame 1, meaning that it could potentially halt advances and stop combo strings. Not only this, but the windbox might be good for gimping and aiding your partner in doubles.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Possible Applications
Farore's Squall is Zelda's second Up-B special. It substitutes Farore's Wind hitboxes with a bunch of potent windboxes, and adds a great length of travel range to the move. Due to these immediate windboxes, Farore's Squall has the ability to push away opponents even as they are attacking Zelda and interrupting the move. This means that she can basically escape from most multihit attacks in the game by attempting to use Squall in the middle of being hit.

It must be made clear that the use of Farore's Squall is nearly 100% defensive. While it can be used to gimp certain recoveries and there are some set ups that can net you a guaranteed u-air kill out of Squall, the move itself has a very considerable amount of start up and can be very easily read by other players. This, however, is by no means a substitute for Farore's Wind raw kill power as an OoS option. Squall's capabilities lie in blocking attacks, stopping enemy momentum, and releasing pressure from Zelda, which is something that is impossible for her to achieve by using her vanilla moveset. By using Squall OoS, Zelda can freely push opponents away while retreating to a safe position herself. This is almost impossible to punish because the endlag on Squall is much shorter than Wind. Additionally, due to Squall's windbox coming out on frame 1 and stayin in place until Zelda disappears, a lot of aerial approaches can be halted, interfered or displaced by using Squall in midair and teleporting to the safety of the ground. As we all know, Zelda is very prone to being juggled heavily due to her lackluster aerial options. By researching more about Squall and mastering its defensive uses, we might be able to give her a good option against juggling, pressure, and aerial strings, which are very prominent in this game, specially in the match-ups that are unfavorable for Zelda.
Squall Cancelling and Squall Shield
Here's a video showing @D3RK's findings on how Squall can be used to interrupt rapid jab combos. It also shows that, when interrupted by getting hit by an attack, Zelda can buffer other moves after the windbox pushes the opponent away. The example provided is a Squall cancelled Phantom Slash.
This is additional information provided by @ BJN39 BJN39 on the move's technical aspects:
Match-Up Specific Uses for Squall Cancelling and Shielding
After a bit of testing with Squall's frame 1 windbox, we realized it's actually possible for Zelda to escape combos and aerial strings from certain characters that are originally a bad MU for her. The list of characters whose aerial strings have been tested are listed below:
  • :4diddy:Diddy's Hoo-Haa can be interrupted by Squall, however, she will still get hit by a bair and fair coming directly from a d-throw. The windbox will still push him back enough for him to be unable to follow up with another bair or fair. At higher percents, using Squall to escape Diddy's d-throw combos is preferable than an airdodge because the initial windbox will prevent him from getting close and Squall's lower cooldown will make it safeish if the Diddy in question tried to take to the air for an u-air. You have to be careful about being read and baited into teleporting to the ground, though. Remember that Squall will make your teleport very visible.
  • :4ness:Ness's fair strings are stopped almost completely by Farore's Squall. Due to the smaller hitboxes on Ness's aerials being dependant on his mobility for strings, Squall can almost nullify his aerial game by pushing him away. While Squall can make connecting some aerials harder for Ness, it won't completely nullify his airgame. Fair strings still have a good chance of comboing at lower percents. The only answer to them is using Squall in a very specific timeframe that could push Ness away to make Zelda retreat safely. This is a bit hard to do but more testing could prove otherwise.
  • :4peach:Peach's shield pressure coming from d-air and n-air can be interrupted by using Squall OoS, however, Zelda must always teleport away from Peach. Squall will push her upwards while she is floating, so if Zelda isn't careful Peach will still be able to get to her and use any aerial as a punish on reappear
  • :4zss:Zamus's UpB can be interrupted and pushed away from Zelda before Zamus can land the final hit, which is her most powerful KO option, both OoS and as a follow up from D-smash and her aerial chains. Using Squall against her will nullify her most reliable finisher. This is exemplified in the following video:
These are the tested characters against which Squall cancelling didn't manage to do anything outstanding:
  • :4sheik:Sheik's fair strings were nigh unaffected by the windbox, as they seem to be too fast for Zelda to react on time. This could need more testing, but it seems Squall won't really do much against Sheik save for interrupting her rapid jab.
  • :rosalina:Rosalina's u-air pressure is entirely unaffected by Squall, due to the initial windbox not affecting Luma in any way. It also doesn't stop her rapid jab if Luma is close to Zelda because of the same reason. It seems to be better to keep Farore's Wind against Rosalina for the killpower against both Rosa and Luma.
Squall Shielding against Special Attacks
As mentioned above, the frame 1 windbox will force some attacks to whiff. @D3RK tested out the effects of Squall when opposing all of the roster's special attacks (save for Miis) and their jab combos.

:4mario:
Cape: It is impossible to cape Farore's Squall. The wind box out-ranges it instantly
Super Jump Punch: Farore's Squall pushes it away before it can connect.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4luigi:
Green Missile: Can block it at any time. Idk about misfires, didn't check them.
Super Jump Punch: Farore's Squall pushes it away before it can connect.
Luigi Cyclone: Can push away at any time, but to fully block the move you need to be in intangible frames.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4peach:
Peach Bomber: Can push away at any time, but to fully block the move you need to be in intangible frames.
Parasol: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.

:4bowser:
Whirling Fortress: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Flying Slam: Can block at any time. Squall pushes it away before Bowser can grab.
Bowser Bomb: Very difficult to block from the front, you would need perfect timing and prediction. Easily blocked from behind.
Jab combo: Zelda can push Bowser away before he can land his second hit.

:4yoshi:
Egg Lay/Tongue move: Can block at any time. Squall will push it away before the command grab can activate.
Yoshi Bomb: Very difficult to block from the front, you would need perfect timing and prediction. Easily blocked from behind.
Egg Roll: Farore's Squall can push it away but it's impossible to stop without taking damage. Too much momentum for it to cancel out.
Jab: Zelda can push Yoshi away before he can land the second hit.

:rosalina:
Launch Star: You can freely push it around since it is a non-damaging attack.
Jab: You can push Rosalina away but Luma is unaffected. Impossible to break out of her jab combo when Luma is present. Same goes for her specials.

:4bowserjr:
Clown Kart Dash: Can push away at any time, but to fully block the move you need to be in intangible frames.
Mechakoopa: You can freely push it away with the start up of Squall but if you remain in the same spot it will hit you. If you push it away with the start up then teleport towards it slightly you can blow it away completely. This could see some usage in doubles with Zelda + Bowser Jr to deliver bombs across the stage instantly.
Abandon Ship: Can block at any time. Squall pushes Bowser Jr but not the clown kart.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4wario2:
Chomp: Zelda can push it away before the command grab can reach her.
Wario Bike: Zelda can block it, but only during the intangible frames.
Waft: Can block it at any time. It instantly out-ranges the move.
Corkscrew: Can block it at any time. It instantly out-ranges the move.

:4dk:
All specials bypass Farore's Squall unless you are in intangible frames.

:4diddy:
All specials bypass Farore's Squall unless you are in intangible frames. Monkey Kick can be blocked on startup with perfect spacing but the command grab is un-blockable.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4gaw:
Hammer: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
All other specials are either non-damaging or reflected by Nayru's Love. You can freely push them around.

:4littlemac:
Rising Uppercut: Seems to come out instantly. Squall can block it at any time, but the start up only beats it if you can activate it first (prediction based levels of input timing.)
Jolt Haymaker: Can only block it during intantgible frames.
Straight Lunge: Can block it at any time unless it is fully charged. It's impossible to punish once fully charged.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4link::4tlink:
Spin Attack: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Bombs: Farore's Squall can reflect them back at Link
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4sheik:
Bouncing Fish: Depends on your timing. You need to be in your intangible frames or use the second wind box.
Grenade: On startup or during intangible frames. Can also block with the ending wind box.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4ganondorf:
Warlock Punch: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Flame Choke and Wizard Foot: Can only block with the intangible frames.
Dark Dive: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.

:4samus:
Screw Attack: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
All of her other attacks are ranged based so Nayru's can deal with them.

:4zss:
Boost Kick: The first hit can still land but as long as you activate Farore's Squall it prevents the killing hit from landing.
Plasma Whip: Can push it away but due to the range of this move it is impossible to avoid without the intangible frames.
Flip Jump: Only blocks during intangible frames or the ending wind box. It sends ZSS flying high in the air lol.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4pit::4darkpit:
Upperdash Arm: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Power of Flight and Guardian Orbitals: Non-damaging attacks so you can freely push them around.
Jab combo: Seems harder to escape compared to most jabs but it's possible.

:4palutena:
Reflect: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Teleport and Counter: Non-damaging attacks so you can freely push them around.
Jab combo: Extremely easy to escape.

:4marth::4lucina:
Dancing Blade: Farore's Squall can escape after the first hit.
Shield Breaker: Can push it away but due to it's range you can only block it completely with intangible frames.
Dolphin Slash: Due to the speed of this move you can only block it if you activate Farore's Squall first (Prediction based reaction time required).

:4myfriends:
Quick Draw: Farore's Squall can only stop this move towards the end due to the momentum this move has at the beginning. Intangible frames can stop it at any time.
Aether and Eruption: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4robinm::4robinf:
Elwind: Can block it at any time as long as you are above them. Squall out-ranges it instantly
Other specials are ranged based and handled by Nayru's Love.
Jab: Easily escaped before the fire or wind hit can activate with good DI and buffering.

:4duckhunt:
All specials are ranged based and easy to deal with using Nayru's Love. Recovery is non-damaging so you can easily push it around.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4kirby:
Inhale: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Flip Hammer: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Final Cutter: Can push it away but the wind blade can still hit you on stage. Offstage it is easy to push away.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4dedede:
Inhale: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Jet Hammer: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Super Dedede Jump: Can block it at any time as long as you are not under it.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4metaknight:
Drill Rush: Can only block with intangible frames.
Mach Tornado: Can only block with intangible frames.
Shuttle Loop: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4fox::4falco:
Fire Fox/Bird: Can block the start up at any time. The movement part of this move can only be blocked with intangible frames.
Phantasm: Can block the ending at any time. The beginning of this move can only be blocked with intangible frames.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4pikachu:
Skull Bash: Can push at any time but this attack has too much momentum to cancel. Can only block with intangible frames.
Quick Attack: Can block the start up of this move but the movement's damage can cancel Farore's Squall.
Thunder: Can push it away but thunder will still hit you. Can avoid thunder with intangible frames.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape, but its harder than most jabs because of how quick it is.

:4charizard:
Flare Blitz: Can only block during the ending of this move due to the large momentum at the beginning. Can block it at any time with the intangible frames.
Fly and Rock Smash: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape.

:4lucario:
Extreme Speed: Can push the beginning away but the higher Lucario's rage the harder it is to push the movement portion of this move.
Force Palm: Can only block it with intangible frames due to the range.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4jigglypuff:
Rollout: Can only block during the intangible frames.
Pound, Rest, and Sing: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.

:4greninja:
Shadow Sneak: Depends on your timing. If you see Shadow Sneak coming you can easily block it with intangible frames.
Hydro Pump: Can push the beginning but the movement portion of this attack has too much momentum to block.
Jab: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4rob:
Arm Rotor: Can block the entire move using the start up and ending wind boxes.
Gyro: Can block it using the intangible frames only. However, you can freely push it around the stage with Farore's Squall at any time.
Robo Burner: Non-damaging attack so you can freely push it around.

:4ness:
Pk Thunder: Extremely gimpable recovery. Farore's Squall coming into contact with Ness makes it very hard for him to recover.
Other specials are magic based and easy to deal with using Nayru's Love.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape.

:4falcon:
Raptor Boost: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Falcon Kick: Can only block it using intangible frames.
Falcon Punch: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Falcon Dive: Can push the start up away but will not cancel the command grab if Falcon is still in range.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4villager::4villagerf:
Balloon Trip and Pocket: Non-damaging attacks so you can freely push them around.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4olimar::4alph:
Winged Pikmin and Pikmin Order: Non-damaging attack so you can freely push them around.
Other specials are ranged based and easy to deal with using Nayru's Love.

:4wiifit::4wiifitm:
Header: Only blockable with intangible frames. It will reflect the ball vertical
Super Hoop: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Deep Breathing: Non-damaging attack so you can freely push it around.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape.

:4shulk:
Air Slash and Back Slash: Can push it away but will still hit you due to the range. They are only 100% blockable with the intangible frames.
Monado Arts and Counter: Non-damaging attacks so you can freely push them around.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape.

:4drmario:
Super Jump Punch: This move is extremely quick. Farore's Squall can block it as long as you activate it first (requires prediction levels of input).
Cape: It is impossible to cape Farore's Squall. The wind box out-ranges it instantly
Dr. Tornado: Can push away at any time, but to fully block the move you need to be in intangible frames.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4pacman:
Power Pellet: Only blockable with intangible frames.
Pac-Jump: Farore's Squall can block it as long as you activate it first and dodge the hit box.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4megaman:
Rush Coil: Non-damaging attack so you can freely push it around.
All of his other attacks are ranged based and easily deal with using Nayru's Love.

:4sonic:
Spin Dash: Impossible to block without taking damage. This includes using intangible frames.
Spring jump: Non-damaing attack so you can freely push it around.
Homing Attack: Only blockable with intangible frames.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ledge Shennanigans
After testing, we determined that, whenever a character is hanging from the ledge but has already lost invincibility, either from hanging on the ledge too long or from coming back after releasing, Squall's reappearing windbox will pop them up enough distance for Zelda to follow up with an u-smash, u-tilt or f-air. It might be possible that the popped up character in question will be able to air dodge, however, so more time in the lab is needed for this application.
Ledge Cancelling
@Lavani here exemplifies how Squall could be used in conjunction with ledge cancelling to get guaranteed follow ups and possible KOs
Another example of Squall's utility when used in conjunction with ledge cancelling (be mindful that this is just testing, since Captain Falcon would have normally been able to shield the traversing windbox).
The conjunction of a ledge-cancelled Squall with an u-air finisher is what we affectionally call the Squallator. @ Macchiato Macchiato here compiled a list on the %s this combo will kill all of the cast.
Character|Percents
Jigglypuff|76%+
Game&Watch|80%+
Kirby|83%+
Rosalina|83%+
Pikachu|86%+
Olimar|86%+
Fox|86%+
Meta Knight|89%+
Zero Suit Samus|89%+
Falco|89%+
Little Mac|89%+
Sheik|87%+
Zelda|89%+
Peach|87%+
Marth|95%+
Lucina|95%+
Duck Hunt|96%+
Palutena|89%+
Diddy Kong|97%+
Toon Link|92%+
Ness|93%+
Greninja|91%+
Pac-Man|93%+
Sonic|95%+
Robin|94%+
Pit|96%+
Dark Pit|96%+
Wii Fit Trainer|92%+
Luigi|92%+
Villager|94%+
Mario|97%+
Dr. Mario|97%+
Lucario|99%+
Mega Man|104%+
Shulk|100%+
Yoshi|98%+
Link|102%+
Captain Falcon|104%+
R.O.B|102%+
Wario|103%+
Ike|104%+
Samus|100%+
Ganondorf|106%+
Bowser Jr.|103%+
Charizard|102%+
DeDeDe|118%+
Donkey Kong|113%+
Bowser|107%+
Tested on Final destination with no DI or Rage
Be mindful, though, that even though the Squallator is a kill move, it is far from reliable. Every opponent can shield Squall's traversing windbox and not be affected by it. Due to Squall's very laggy start up, it is almost impossible to catch your opponent off-guard in order to take them towards the ledge. You would need them to be in a particularly awkward position, like charging a laggy attack or having been shield-broken or helpless. The closer to the ledge they are, the easier it will be for you to pull this out without them shielding.
More uses should still be investigated to determine is u-air is the only possible follow up.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gimping
With a windbox as massive as Squall's, it's only natural for the move to be used as a gimping tool against characters with particularly bad or predictable recoveries. This is only reinforced by the move having incredible reach in all directions, which means Zelda can go DEEP when trying to edgeguard without having to worry about making it back onstage. The move's initial windbox is also pretty handy for stopping edgeguard attempts that don't have hugely disjointed hitboxes.

Here's a video by @D3RK showing possible uses of Squall against a variety of the cast.

Here is a list of characters that get gimped by Squall through different uses:

- :4myfriends:: His Up-B can be pushed away from the stage when he's recovering low, and his Side-B can be halted midair if Ike's not careful and tries to recover high instead of snapping the ledge. Here's a video by @S.F.L.R_9 showing possible ways to gimp Ike's recovery (with a super hilarious gimp in the end that showcases the massive windbox on Squall's reappear).


- :4ness:: Predictably, Ness's recovery can be completely destroyed by the use of Farore's Squall. Windboxes have always been things the psychic kid dislikes, and this one might give the rest of them a run for their money. The start up windbox on Squall is enough to push Ness away from his PK Thunder, making it miss or launch him towards undesired directions.

- :rosalina:: Rosalina's recovery is mostly unaffected by Squall's windboxes, save for making her shoot way higher than she intended, thus forcing her to land on stage and become more vulnerable. If Zelda teleports to where Rosalina will fall, she will get an easy punish. This, however, is a big hard to achieve and shouldn't be considered an actual advantage against Rosaluma for this MU.
- :4diddy:: Diddy's recovery can actually be messed with and/or gimped by Squall in some circumstances. Either that or it can put him in a very awkward place to recover. By using Squall in conjunction with Nayru's Love or Rejection, Diddy's recovery being easily gimped is actually a relative reality for Zelda if she manages to catch him off-stage.
-:4littlemac:: If Mac's recovery wasn't already incredibly easy to gimp, Squall actually makes it even easier for Zelda. Since Squall's windboxes won't actually activate Mac's Counter, the option of him using counter to get back on-stage is nullified. Also, the reappearing windbox can stop and push both of Mac's recovery specials, since they don't sweetspot the ledge. This means that simply having Max off-stage can mean a stock in Zelda's favor if Squall is used intelligently.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Squall Boosting
By using Squall's windbox in doubles, Zelda can actually aid her team companion by pushing them towards enemies while using particularly slow attacks or charged Smashes. It also seems that Squall's traversing windbox can push certain projectiles like Phantom with it, which makes Villager, once more, a very interesting team mate for Zelda.
Additionally, Squall's traversing windbox can carry and push certain onstage projectiles, such as :4rob:'s Gyroids, :4bowserjr:'s Mechakoopas and :4zelda:'s Phantom.
This is another video by @D3RK showing the potential uses of Squall in doubles with :4villager: as a partner.
The move needs more testing, but it's looking like it can have a ton of utilities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TO DO's for Farore's Squall:
I will keep adding new possibilities for this move in this list. Once tested, the information will be added to the OP's repository (which will be more organised later) and the To-Do will be striked.
  • Test if it can stop or interrupt aerial chains and combos such as Sheik and Ness' fair strings, or Diddy's follow ups from d-throw. Same with Palutena's Lightweight combos and other characters with which Zelda has a hard time handling pressure.
  • Test what Squall can do against Sonic's specials and approaches.
  • Test what the effects of Squall's windboxes have on bananas and on-stage items.
  • Test the strength on the windbox with the purpose of gimping character recoveries from off-stage.
  • Test how Squall can affect Ness's recovery in all of his customs.
  • Test if there are any kind of follow ups from a non-ledge cancelled reappear.
  • Test what other follow ups could be possible from a ledge cancelled reappear besides from U-air.
  • Determine the exact points from which Squall can be ledge cancelled on at least all the starter legal stages.
  • Test what Farore's Squall can do to Luma both on disappear and reappear.
  • Test what Farore's Squall can do against Mac's smashes and KO punch.
  • Test what Farore's Squall can do against Peach's pressuring aerials.



I suggest the sets be...
1213
Nayru's Love
Din's Flare
Farore's Wind
Phantom Strike

1312
Nayru's Love
Din's Blaze
Farore's Wind
Phantom Breaker

1211
Nayru's Love
Din's Flare
Farore's Wind
Phantom Slash

1311
Nayru's Love
Din's Blaze
Farore's Wind
Phantom Slash

1223
Nayru's Love
Din's Flare
Farore's Squall
Phantom Strike

1322
Nayru's Love
Din's Blaze
Farore's Squall
Phantom Slash

2213
Nayru's Rejection
Din's Flare
Farore's Wind
Phantom Strike

2312
Nayru's Rejection
Din's Blaze
Farore's Wind
Phantom Breaker


Thank you for your time
You like gave everything two extra spoilers lol. And what about Farore's Windfall? It's definitely more niche than the default, but I feel it really shines as an edgegaurding tool.
 

Macchiato

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You like gave everything two extra spoilers lol. And what about Farore's Windfall? It's definitely more niche than the default, but I feel it really shines as an edgegaurding tool.
It does but the thing is it hinders both kill power and recovery. I don't think its good enough to replace either of the other Farore's. Maybe after we expirement more with it but atm, it's not ready.
 

Brinzy

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Farore's Windfall is probably worse than Nayru's Passion...

Name a legitimate situation where Windfall would kill where Wind would not, and after doing so, ask yourself if it's worth having a recovery that's probably worse than Melee Zelda.

What's funny is... if this were Brawl or Melee, Windfall would be slightly better because you could port past ledges for a potential meteor while also recovering.
 
Last edited:

ParanoidDrone

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Random thought: If you ledge snap with Windfall, does Zelda's early reappearance still trigger the meteor hitbox or does she have to fully complete the move for that to work?
 

BJN39

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Random thought: If you ledge snap with Windfall, does Zelda's early reappearance still trigger the meteor hitbox or does she have to fully complete the move for that to work?
Unless I read that wrong.
You literally can't ledge snap with windfall. :urg:

Though, if you reappear right at the edge, the reappear hit-box is large and can clip people close to the edge, and it can hit people who try and intercept your recovery if they aren't careful.
 

ParanoidDrone

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Unless I read that wrong.
You literally can't ledge snap with windfall. :urg:

Though, if you reappear right at the edge, the reappear hit-box is large and can clip people close to the edge, and it can hit people who try and intercept your recovery if they aren't careful.
Wat.

*dashes to training mode*

Yep, you're right. Zelda will not emerge early from her teleport to grab the ledge when using Windfall.
 

Brinzy

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Unless I read that wrong.
You literally can't ledge snap with windfall. :urg:
Oh, I stand corrected.

So the move doesn't force you to grab the ledge, making it... I guess slightly more likely to hit someone with it while making it harder to recover. So it's like... the Brawl version but only straight up.

... So it's even worse than I thought it was.
 

Meru.

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The only customs I can think of using (in order from good to bad) are Phantom Strike, Din's Blaze and Nayru's Passion. I personally don't understand the Farore's Squall hype at all, Farore's Wind seems a 1000x times better.

So Phantom Strike... We lose distance and a bit of knockback compared to default, but lol big deal, Phantom Strike has plenty of range already and even For Glory noobs don't get killed by Phantom. Instead Strike doesn't have a blindspot anymore, which no more whiffing anymore WOOOH! And it deals a bit more damage too, so I'm SOLD. Perhaps it can be used for some landings or a slow spacing tool, it's safe anyway. And it can be used in mid-air, which gives her an option. Strike is not the best thing every but it's better than regular Phantom and I can see some application for it.

Din's Blaze isn't great because it's slow as ****, but I can see myself trying to bait and punish airdodges with it or use it as some kind of edgeguarding tool. Even though it has good range and reward, I'm probably never going to actually hit with it, but I'm also never going to hit anything with default Din either! At least I can use Din's Blaze for baiting unlike Din's Fire.

Nayru's Passion is probably worse than Love because it's ,uch slower and has no invincibility frames, but i like how it's safe on shield. I don't think I'll be using it in the end, but at least it's something to experiment it, unlike her other customs.
 

Macchiato

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The only customs I can think of using (in order from good to bad) are Phantom Strike, Din's Blaze and Nayru's Passion. I personally don't understand the Farore's Squall hype at all, Farore's Wind seems a 1000x times better.

So Phantom Strike... We lose distance and a bit of knockback compared to default, but lol big deal, Phantom Strike has plenty of range already and even For Glory noobs don't get killed by Phantom. Instead Strike doesn't have a blindspot anymore, which no more whiffing anymore WOOOH! And it deals a bit more damage too, so I'm SOLD. Perhaps it can be used for some landings or a slow spacing tool, it's safe anyway. And it can be used in mid-air, which gives her an option. Strike is not the best thing every but it's better than regular Phantom and I can see some application for it.

Din's Blaze isn't great because it's slow as ****, but I can see myself trying to bait and punish airdodges with it or use it as some kind of edgeguarding tool. Even though it has good range and reward, I'm probably never going to actually hit with it, but I'm also never going to hit anything with default Din either! At least I can use Din's Blaze for baiting unlike Din's Fire.

Nayru's Passion is probably worse than Love because it's ,uch slower and has no invincibility frames, but i like how it's safe on shield. I don't think I'll be using it in the end, but at least it's something to experiment it, unlike her other customs.
Nayrus passion is safe on shield?
 

Brinzy

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I really like Din's Blaze, and that's almost entirely because you can aim it beneath the stage to intercept some recoveries if you're lucky. Also, while it takes longer to go off, Zelda can lolfollowup with something if the blast hits close enough to her.
 

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Zelda's Customs
Nayru's Rejection
Thanks to wonderful new information found by @D3RK and complemented by @ BJN39 BJN39 , we have found possible new uses for this custom move. Nayru's Rejection has a unique windbox and also has more intangibility than Nayru's Love.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Possible Applications
Nayru's Rejection is Zelda's second Side-B special. It substitutes Nayru's Rejection speed with a bunch of potential follow-ups, and adds a cape effect. Due to the low knockback, it enables Zelda to get free grab combos. It also is a free reset to neutral. It also can help Zelda create opportunities due to the cape effect able to make opponents moves whiff.
It is not a substitute for a oos option. It is used as a kill or combo set up. Due to its slower frame data, it isn't usable as a oos option.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frame Stuff
Starting frames of Nayru's Rejection.
First frame of intangibility. She gains intangibility when she extends her leg back.
Reflector actually acts like a reflector now! Pretty sure intangible frames end at this point.
Its intangibility is about 5 frames longer than Nayru's Love making it an interesting approach or counter. For example sometimes if a character is about to throw out a smash, if Zelda throws out Rejection at the right time. She will avoid the smash while still getting the hit in.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Windbox
It has a very weird windbox, sometimes when it whiffs. The windbox will push your opponent away so you'll be safe.
In some multihitting moves, if you already throw out a Rejection and they hit you have the intangibility frames. It might pop out of the move. Like Zelda's Jab for example.
Also if you Love jump, Love boost, or stand on a moving platform, the windbox and crystal will separate. That needs more testing.
Love Jumping Nayru's Rejection.
Regular Nayru's Rejection for comparison.
The Windbox actually shifts and does damage, its not a visual error
0% damage from the windbox.
1% damage from the windbox.

These were 2 separate Nayru's Rejections.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Other
If timed right it will avoid some moves like rest or the K.O Punch. This could be useful but needs more testing
Thanks to wonderful new information found by @D3RK and complemented by @ BJN39 BJN39 , we have found possible new uses for this custom move in order to escape combos. Farore's Squall has a windbox that starts on frame 1, meaning that it could potentially halt advances and stop combo strings. Not only this, but the windbox might be good for gimping and aiding your partner in doubles.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Possible Applications
Farore's Squall is Zelda's second Up-B special. It substitutes Farore's Wind hitboxes with a bunch of potent windboxes, and adds a great length of travel range to the move. Due to these immediate windboxes, Farore's Squall has the ability to push away opponents even as they are attacking Zelda and interrupting the move. This means that she can basically escape from most multihit attacks in the game by attempting to use Squall in the middle of being hit.

It must be made clear that the use of Farore's Squall is nearly 100% defensive. While it can be used to gimp certain recoveries and there are some set ups that can net you a guaranteed u-air kill out of Squall, the move itself has a very considerable amount of start up and can be very easily read by other players. This, however, is by no means a substitute for Farore's Wind raw kill power as an OoS option. Squall's capabilities lie in blocking attacks, stopping enemy momentum, and releasing pressure from Zelda, which is something that is impossible for her to achieve by using her vanilla moveset. By using Squall OoS, Zelda can freely push opponents away while retreating to a safe position herself. This is almost impossible to punish because the endlag on Squall is much shorter than Wind. Additionally, due to Squall's windbox coming out on frame 1 and stayin in place until Zelda disappears, a lot of aerial approaches can be halted, interfered or displaced by using Squall in midair and teleporting to the safety of the ground. As we all know, Zelda is very prone to being juggled heavily due to her lackluster aerial options. By researching more about Squall and mastering its defensive uses, we might be able to give her a good option against juggling, pressure, and aerial strings, which are very prominent in this game, specially in the match-ups that are unfavorable for Zelda.
Squall Cancelling and Squall Shield
Here's a video showing @D3RK's findings on how Squall can be used to interrupt rapid jab combos. It also shows that, when interrupted by getting hit by an attack, Zelda can buffer other moves after the windbox pushes the opponent away. The example provided is a Squall cancelled Phantom Slash.
This is additional information provided by @ BJN39 BJN39 on the move's technical aspects:
Match-Up Specific Uses for Squall Cancelling and Shielding
After a bit of testing with Squall's frame 1 windbox, we realized it's actually possible for Zelda to escape combos and aerial strings from certain characters that are originally a bad MU for her. The list of characters whose aerial strings have been tested are listed below:
  • :4diddy:Diddy's Hoo-Haa can be interrupted by Squall, however, she will still get hit by a bair and fair coming directly from a d-throw. The windbox will still push him back enough for him to be unable to follow up with another bair or fair. At higher percents, using Squall to escape Diddy's d-throw combos is preferable than an airdodge because the initial windbox will prevent him from getting close and Squall's lower cooldown will make it safeish if the Diddy in question tried to take to the air for an u-air. You have to be careful about being read and baited into teleporting to the ground, though. Remember that Squall will make your teleport very visible.
  • :4ness:Ness's fair strings are stopped almost completely by Farore's Squall. Due to the smaller hitboxes on Ness's aerials being dependant on his mobility for strings, Squall can almost nullify his aerial game by pushing him away. While Squall can make connecting some aerials harder for Ness, it won't completely nullify his airgame. Fair strings still have a good chance of comboing at lower percents. The only answer to them is using Squall in a very specific timeframe that could push Ness away to make Zelda retreat safely. This is a bit hard to do but more testing could prove otherwise.
  • :4peach:Peach's shield pressure coming from d-air and n-air can be interrupted by using Squall OoS, however, Zelda must always teleport away from Peach. Squall will push her upwards while she is floating, so if Zelda isn't careful Peach will still be able to get to her and use any aerial as a punish on reappear
  • :4zss:Zamus's UpB can be interrupted and pushed away from Zelda before Zamus can land the final hit, which is her most powerful KO option, both OoS and as a follow up from D-smash and her aerial chains. Using Squall against her will nullify her most reliable finisher. This is exemplified in the following video:
These are the tested characters against which Squall cancelling didn't manage to do anything outstanding:
  • :4sheik:Sheik's fair strings were nigh unaffected by the windbox, as they seem to be too fast for Zelda to react on time. This could need more testing, but it seems Squall won't really do much against Sheik save for interrupting her rapid jab.
  • :rosalina:Rosalina's u-air pressure is entirely unaffected by Squall, due to the initial windbox not affecting Luma in any way. It also doesn't stop her rapid jab if Luma is close to Zelda because of the same reason. It seems to be better to keep Farore's Wind against Rosalina for the killpower against both Rosa and Luma.
Squall Shielding against Special Attacks
As mentioned above, the frame 1 windbox will force some attacks to whiff. @D3RK tested out the effects of Squall when opposing all of the roster's special attacks (save for Miis) and their jab combos.

:4mario:
Cape: It is impossible to cape Farore's Squall. The wind box out-ranges it instantly
Super Jump Punch: Farore's Squall pushes it away before it can connect.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4luigi:
Green Missile: Can block it at any time. Idk about misfires, didn't check them.
Super Jump Punch: Farore's Squall pushes it away before it can connect.
Luigi Cyclone: Can push away at any time, but to fully block the move you need to be in intangible frames.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4peach:
Peach Bomber: Can push away at any time, but to fully block the move you need to be in intangible frames.
Parasol: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.

:4bowser:
Whirling Fortress: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Flying Slam: Can block at any time. Squall pushes it away before Bowser can grab.
Bowser Bomb: Very difficult to block from the front, you would need perfect timing and prediction. Easily blocked from behind.
Jab combo: Zelda can push Bowser away before he can land his second hit.

:4yoshi:
Egg Lay/Tongue move: Can block at any time. Squall will push it away before the command grab can activate.
Yoshi Bomb: Very difficult to block from the front, you would need perfect timing and prediction. Easily blocked from behind.
Egg Roll: Farore's Squall can push it away but it's impossible to stop without taking damage. Too much momentum for it to cancel out.
Jab: Zelda can push Yoshi away before he can land the second hit.

:rosalina:
Launch Star: You can freely push it around since it is a non-damaging attack.
Jab: You can push Rosalina away but Luma is unaffected. Impossible to break out of her jab combo when Luma is present. Same goes for her specials.

:4bowserjr:
Clown Kart Dash: Can push away at any time, but to fully block the move you need to be in intangible frames.
Mechakoopa: You can freely push it away with the start up of Squall but if you remain in the same spot it will hit you. If you push it away with the start up then teleport towards it slightly you can blow it away completely. This could see some usage in doubles with Zelda + Bowser Jr to deliver bombs across the stage instantly.
Abandon Ship: Can block at any time. Squall pushes Bowser Jr but not the clown kart.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4wario2:
Chomp: Zelda can push it away before the command grab can reach her.
Wario Bike: Zelda can block it, but only during the intangible frames.
Waft: Can block it at any time. It instantly out-ranges the move.
Corkscrew: Can block it at any time. It instantly out-ranges the move.

:4dk:
All specials bypass Farore's Squall unless you are in intangible frames.

:4diddy:
All specials bypass Farore's Squall unless you are in intangible frames. Monkey Kick can be blocked on startup with perfect spacing but the command grab is un-blockable.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4gaw:
Hammer: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
All other specials are either non-damaging or reflected by Nayru's Love. You can freely push them around.

:4littlemac:
Rising Uppercut: Seems to come out instantly. Squall can block it at any time, but the start up only beats it if you can activate it first (prediction based levels of input timing.)
Jolt Haymaker: Can only block it during intantgible frames.
Straight Lunge: Can block it at any time unless it is fully charged. It's impossible to punish once fully charged.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4link::4tlink:
Spin Attack: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Bombs: Farore's Squall can reflect them back at Link
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4sheik:
Bouncing Fish: Depends on your timing. You need to be in your intangible frames or use the second wind box.
Grenade: On startup or during intangible frames. Can also block with the ending wind box.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4ganondorf:
Warlock Punch: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Flame Choke and Wizard Foot: Can only block with the intangible frames.
Dark Dive: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.

:4samus:
Screw Attack: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
All of her other attacks are ranged based so Nayru's can deal with them.

:4zss:
Boost Kick: The first hit can still land but as long as you activate Farore's Squall it prevents the killing hit from landing.
Plasma Whip: Can push it away but due to the range of this move it is impossible to avoid without the intangible frames.
Flip Jump: Only blocks during intangible frames or the ending wind box. It sends ZSS flying high in the air lol.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4pit::4darkpit:
Upperdash Arm: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Power of Flight and Guardian Orbitals: Non-damaging attacks so you can freely push them around.
Jab combo: Seems harder to escape compared to most jabs but it's possible.

:4palutena:
Reflect: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Teleport and Counter: Non-damaging attacks so you can freely push them around.
Jab combo: Extremely easy to escape.

:4marth::4lucina:
Dancing Blade: Farore's Squall can escape after the first hit.
Shield Breaker: Can push it away but due to it's range you can only block it completely with intangible frames.
Dolphin Slash: Due to the speed of this move you can only block it if you activate Farore's Squall first (Prediction based reaction time required).

:4myfriends:
Quick Draw: Farore's Squall can only stop this move towards the end due to the momentum this move has at the beginning. Intangible frames can stop it at any time.
Aether and Eruption: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4robinm::4robinf:
Elwind: Can block it at any time as long as you are above them. Squall out-ranges it instantly
Other specials are ranged based and handled by Nayru's Love.
Jab: Easily escaped before the fire or wind hit can activate with good DI and buffering.

:4duckhunt:
All specials are ranged based and easy to deal with using Nayru's Love. Recovery is non-damaging so you can easily push it around.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4kirby:
Inhale: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Flip Hammer: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Final Cutter: Can push it away but the wind blade can still hit you on stage. Offstage it is easy to push away.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4dedede:
Inhale: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Jet Hammer: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Super Dedede Jump: Can block it at any time as long as you are not under it.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4metaknight:
Drill Rush: Can only block with intangible frames.
Mach Tornado: Can only block with intangible frames.
Shuttle Loop: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4fox::4falco:
Fire Fox/Bird: Can block the start up at any time. The movement part of this move can only be blocked with intangible frames.
Phantasm: Can block the ending at any time. The beginning of this move can only be blocked with intangible frames.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4pikachu:
Skull Bash: Can push at any time but this attack has too much momentum to cancel. Can only block with intangible frames.
Quick Attack: Can block the start up of this move but the movement's damage can cancel Farore's Squall.
Thunder: Can push it away but thunder will still hit you. Can avoid thunder with intangible frames.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape, but its harder than most jabs because of how quick it is.

:4charizard:
Flare Blitz: Can only block during the ending of this move due to the large momentum at the beginning. Can block it at any time with the intangible frames.
Fly and Rock Smash: Can block it at any time. Squall out-ranges it instantly.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape.

:4lucario:
Extreme Speed: Can push the beginning away but the higher Lucario's rage the harder it is to push the movement portion of this move.
Force Palm: Can only block it with intangible frames due to the range.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4jigglypuff:
Rollout: Can only block during the intangible frames.
Pound, Rest, and Sing: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.

:4greninja:
Shadow Sneak: Depends on your timing. If you see Shadow Sneak coming you can easily block it with intangible frames.
Hydro Pump: Can push the beginning but the movement portion of this attack has too much momentum to block.
Jab: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4rob:
Arm Rotor: Can block the entire move using the start up and ending wind boxes.
Gyro: Can block it using the intangible frames only. However, you can freely push it around the stage with Farore's Squall at any time.
Robo Burner: Non-damaging attack so you can freely push it around.

:4ness:
Pk Thunder: Extremely gimpable recovery. Farore's Squall coming into contact with Ness makes it very hard for him to recover.
Other specials are magic based and easy to deal with using Nayru's Love.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape.

:4falcon:
Raptor Boost: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Falcon Kick: Can only block it using intangible frames.
Falcon Punch: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Falcon Dive: Can push the start up away but will not cancel the command grab if Falcon is still in range.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4villager::4villagerf:
Balloon Trip and Pocket: Non-damaging attacks so you can freely push them around.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4olimar::4alph:
Winged Pikmin and Pikmin Order: Non-damaging attack so you can freely push them around.
Other specials are ranged based and easy to deal with using Nayru's Love.

:4wiifit::4wiifitm:
Header: Only blockable with intangible frames. It will reflect the ball vertical
Super Hoop: Can block at any time. Squall out-ranges it immediately.
Deep Breathing: Non-damaging attack so you can freely push it around.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape.

:4shulk:
Air Slash and Back Slash: Can push it away but will still hit you due to the range. They are only 100% blockable with the intangible frames.
Monado Arts and Counter: Non-damaging attacks so you can freely push them around.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape.

:4drmario:
Super Jump Punch: This move is extremely quick. Farore's Squall can block it as long as you activate it first (requires prediction levels of input).
Cape: It is impossible to cape Farore's Squall. The wind box out-ranges it instantly
Dr. Tornado: Can push away at any time, but to fully block the move you need to be in intangible frames.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4pacman:
Power Pellet: Only blockable with intangible frames.
Pac-Jump: Farore's Squall can block it as long as you activate it first and dodge the hit box.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

:4megaman:
Rush Coil: Non-damaging attack so you can freely push it around.
All of his other attacks are ranged based and easily deal with using Nayru's Love.

:4sonic:
Spin Dash: Impossible to block without taking damage. This includes using intangible frames.
Spring jump: Non-damaing attack so you can freely push it around.
Homing Attack: Only blockable with intangible frames.
Jab combo: Farore's Squall can escape it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ledge Shennanigans
After testing, we determined that, whenever a character is hanging from the ledge but has already lost invincibility, either from hanging on the ledge too long or from coming back after releasing, Squall's reappearing windbox will pop them up enough distance for Zelda to follow up with an u-smash, u-tilt or f-air. It might be possible that the popped up character in question will be able to air dodge, however, so more time in the lab is needed for this application.
Ledge Cancelling
@Lavani here exemplifies how Squall could be used in conjunction with ledge cancelling to get guaranteed follow ups and possible KOs
Another example of Squall's utility when used in conjunction with ledge cancelling (be mindful that this is just testing, since Captain Falcon would have normally been able to shield the traversing windbox).
The conjunction of a ledge-cancelled Squall with an u-air finisher is what we affectionally call the Squallator. @ Macchiato Macchiato here compiled a list on the %s this combo will kill all of the cast.
Character|Percents
Jigglypuff|76%+
Game&Watch|80%+
Kirby|83%+
Rosalina|83%+
Pikachu|86%+
Olimar|86%+
Fox|86%+
Meta Knight|89%+
Zero Suit Samus|89%+
Falco|89%+
Little Mac|89%+
Sheik|87%+
Zelda|89%+
Peach|87%+
Marth|95%+
Lucina|95%+
Duck Hunt|96%+
Palutena|89%+
Diddy Kong|97%+
Toon Link|92%+
Ness|93%+
Greninja|91%+
Pac-Man|93%+
Sonic|95%+
Robin|94%+
Pit|96%+
Dark Pit|96%+
Wii Fit Trainer|92%+
Luigi|92%+
Villager|94%+
Mario|97%+
Dr. Mario|97%+
Lucario|99%+
Mega Man|104%+
Shulk|100%+
Yoshi|98%+
Link|102%+
Captain Falcon|104%+
R.O.B|102%+
Wario|103%+
Ike|104%+
Samus|100%+
Ganondorf|106%+
Bowser Jr.|103%+
Charizard|102%+
DeDeDe|118%+
Donkey Kong|113%+
Bowser|107%+
Tested on Final destination with no DI or Rage
Be mindful, though, that even though the Squallator is a kill move, it is far from reliable. Every opponent can shield Squall's traversing windbox and not be affected by it. Due to Squall's very laggy start up, it is almost impossible to catch your opponent off-guard in order to take them towards the ledge. You would need them to be in a particularly awkward position, like charging a laggy attack or having been shield-broken or helpless. The closer to the ledge they are, the easier it will be for you to pull this out without them shielding.
More uses should still be investigated to determine is u-air is the only possible follow up.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gimping
With a windbox as massive as Squall's, it's only natural for the move to be used as a gimping tool against characters with particularly bad or predictable recoveries. This is only reinforced by the move having incredible reach in all directions, which means Zelda can go DEEP when trying to edgeguard without having to worry about making it back onstage. The move's initial windbox is also pretty handy for stopping edgeguard attempts that don't have hugely disjointed hitboxes.

Here's a video by @D3RK showing possible uses of Squall against a variety of the cast.

Here is a list of characters that get gimped by Squall through different uses:

- :4myfriends:: His Up-B can be pushed away from the stage when he's recovering low, and his Side-B can be halted midair if Ike's not careful and tries to recover high instead of snapping the ledge. Here's a video by @S.F.L.R_9 showing possible ways to gimp Ike's recovery (with a super hilarious gimp in the end that showcases the massive windbox on Squall's reappear).


- :4ness:: Predictably, Ness's recovery can be completely destroyed by the use of Farore's Squall. Windboxes have always been things the psychic kid dislikes, and this one might give the rest of them a run for their money. The start up windbox on Squall is enough to push Ness away from his PK Thunder, making it miss or launch him towards undesired directions.

- :rosalina:: Rosalina's recovery is mostly unaffected by Squall's windboxes, save for making her shoot way higher than she intended, thus forcing her to land on stage and become more vulnerable. If Zelda teleports to where Rosalina will fall, she will get an easy punish. This, however, is a big hard to achieve and shouldn't be considered an actual advantage against Rosaluma for this MU.
- :4diddy:: Diddy's recovery can actually be messed with and/or gimped by Squall in some circumstances. Either that or it can put him in a very awkward place to recover. By using Squall in conjunction with Nayru's Love or Rejection, Diddy's recovery being easily gimped is actually a relative reality for Zelda if she manages to catch him off-stage.
-:4littlemac:: If Mac's recovery wasn't already incredibly easy to gimp, Squall actually makes it even easier for Zelda. Since Squall's windboxes won't actually activate Mac's Counter, the option of him using counter to get back on-stage is nullified. Also, the reappearing windbox can stop and push both of Mac's recovery specials, since they don't sweetspot the ledge. This means that simply having Max off-stage can mean a stock in Zelda's favor if Squall is used intelligently.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Squall Boosting
By using Squall's windbox in doubles, Zelda can actually aid her team companion by pushing them towards enemies while using particularly slow attacks or charged Smashes. It also seems that Squall's traversing windbox can push certain projectiles like Phantom with it, which makes Villager, once more, a very interesting team mate for Zelda.
Additionally, Squall's traversing windbox can carry and push certain onstage projectiles, such as :4rob:'s Gyroids, :4bowserjr:'s Mechakoopas and :4zelda:'s Phantom.
This is another video by @D3RK showing the potential uses of Squall in doubles with :4villager: as a partner.
The move needs more testing, but it's looking like it can have a ton of utilities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TO DO's for Farore's Squall:
I will keep adding new possibilities for this move in this list. Once tested, the information will be added to the OP's repository (which will be more organised later) and the To-Do will be striked.
  • Test if it can stop or interrupt aerial chains and combos such as Sheik and Ness' fair strings, or Diddy's follow ups from d-throw. Same with Palutena's Lightweight combos and other characters with which Zelda has a hard time handling pressure.
  • Test what Squall can do against Sonic's specials and approaches.
  • Test what the effects of Squall's windboxes have on bananas and on-stage items.
  • Test the strength on the windbox with the purpose of gimping character recoveries from off-stage.
  • Test how Squall can affect Ness's recovery in all of his customs.
  • Test if there are any kind of follow ups from a non-ledge cancelled reappear.
  • Test what other follow ups could be possible from a ledge cancelled reappear besides from U-air.
  • Determine the exact points from which Squall can be ledge cancelled on at least all the starter legal stages.
  • Test what Farore's Squall can do to Luma both on disappear and reappear.
  • Test what Farore's Squall can do against Mac's smashes and KO punch.
  • Test what Farore's Squall can do against Peach's pressuring aerials.
Here are the custom sets
Code:
2312
2213
1312
1213
1322
1223
2223
2322
1212
1313
 
Last edited:

John12346

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
3,534
Location
New York, NY
NNID
JohnNumbers
Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
2312 2213 1312 1213 1322 1223 2223 2322 1212 1313

We seem to have a finished list sitting right there, compliments of Macchiato. As long as the other Zeldas are cool with this lineup, I think we're good to go here. Still, you have a few more days to discuss it in case you want to update it further, of course.
Zelda:
1/2, 2/3, 1/2, 2/3, some exclusions
Guided by Macchiato: http://smashboards.com/threads/offi...-initial-release.381395/page-40#post-18708869
2312 2213 1312 1213 1322 1223 2223 2322 1212 1313
Excluded: 2222 2323 2313 1323 2212 1222
 
Last edited:

Macchiato

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2015
Messages
6,629
Location
Springfield, Virginia
NNID
Macchiatooo
Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
2312 2213 1312 1213 1322 1223 2223 2322 1212 1313

We seem to have a finished list sitting right there, compliments of Macchiato. As long as the other Zeldas are cool with this lineup, I think we're good to go here. Still, you have a few more days to discuss it in case you want to update it further, of course.
Zelda:
1/2, 2/3, 1/2, 2/3, some exclusions
Guided by Macchiato: http://smashboards.com/threads/offi...-initial-release.381395/page-40#post-18708869
2312 2213 1312 1213 1322 1223 2223 2322 1212 1313
Excluded: 2222 2323 2313 1323 2212 1222
Passion is turning out to be usable. we should replace 1212 & 1313 with 3312 & 3213
 

LRodC

Smashing With Mewtwo and Cloud
Joined
Sep 7, 2014
Messages
818
Location
Philadelphia, PA
NNID
LightningrodC
3DS FC
1461-6200-7452
Passion is turning out to be usable. we should replace 1212 & 1313 with 3312 & 3213
I know Zelda has a lot of custom combinations, but I think if anything we should get rid of a Rejection or Squall set or two for it if there's enough demand for Passion sets. 1313 is one of my favorite combinations currently along with 1213. Phantom Strike is essential for me as it decreases whiffing and causes more hits and damage on unprepared opponents. Plus, it can still edgeguard pretty well. I always switch between Blaze and Flare as they're fairly match up dependent for me and fulfill different roles and I always use default Nayru and Farore.

That's just my input though, I personally wouldn't like if 1313 or even 1212 for those who prefer the Breaker were removed. They seem very staple and replacing those with gimmick Passion sets wouldn't really be ideal in my opinion. I like the current load out of custom sets and I don't think replacing any there now would be for the better. What are some practical uses of Passion that warrants its slot inclusion?
 
Last edited:
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