Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Zelda

[Macchiato]

I know Zelda has a lot of custom combinations, but I think if anything we should get rid of a Rejection or Squall set or two for it if there's enough demand for Passion sets. 1313 is one of my favorite combinations currently along with 1213. Phantom Strike is essential for me as it decreases whiffing and causes more hits and damage on unprepared opponents. Plus, it can still edgeguard pretty well. I always switch between Blaze and Flare as they're fairly match up dependent for me and fulfill different roles and I always use default Nayru and Farore.

That's just my input though, I personally wouldn't like if 1313 or even 1212 for those who prefer the Breaker were removed. They seem very staple and replacing those with gimmick Passion sets wouldn't really be ideal in my opinion. I like the current load out of custom sets and I don't think replacing any there now would be for the better. What are some practical uses of Passion that warrants its slot inclusion?

Passion can gimp really well and stops a lot of ledge options. It also has huge range so it can help her punish when her opponent is too far. The Hitbox is huge too it's like 2x bigger than the default.

Also I think 1213 & 1312 are better than 1212 & 1313. 1312 help with stage control while 1213 are great for rushdowns.

 

[BJN39]

Passion can gimp really well and stops a lot of ledge options. It also has huge range so it can help her punish when her opponent is too far. The Hitbox is huge too it's like 2x bigger than the default.

Also I think 1213 & 1312 are better than 1212 & 1313. 1312 help with stage control while 1213 are great for rushdowns.

IDK... I'm not really feeling that either if her Nayru variations deserve ANY more than 2 each, (Maybe 3 sets I suppose.) imo they're both getting a little overhyped when you shouldn't be using a default version enough to matter anyways. Let alone THOSE two moves.

Also, yes, Passion has a large raw hit-box, but its effective range is worse off than the standard, and it takes over double the frames to get there then standard, as well as her being 100% vulnerable and predictable before the explosion appears. I don't think you'd really be able to get away with any ledge guard shenanigans with it; even then she has better edge guard options. Passion would be purely yolo to throw them off once.

I don't believe Rejection actually gets "grab combos" like you've claimed. Maybe it isn't as bad as getting punished for hitting with it like I claimed, but the hit-stun is definitely too low for anything more then one, again "to throw them off" sort of one-time reward; and the whole thing that it restores recovery moves makes it suspect option for off-stage edge guards because of the no KB, even if it turns around.

Basically, it seems like there isn't very many sets that are still mostly standard, I think this should be rectified just a little. We've definitely gotten somewhere with a FEW of her customs, but most of the time I believe her standards do the job fine/better outside of some MU-specific needs, which can obviously be filled with some of the set spots.

Also, not related to the post, but @ Nairo considering you're repping Zelda out there and can be affected by the choices as well, what do you think are customs that could/should be present? Do you think any in particular are equal or more useful than their standards?

 

[Macchiato]

IDK... I'm not really feeling that either if her Nayru variations deserve ANY more than 2 each, (Maybe 3 sets I suppose.) imo they're both getting a little overhyped when you shouldn't be using a default version enough to matter anyways. Let alone THOSE two moves.

Also, yes, Passion has a large raw hit-box, but its effective range is worse off than the standard, and it takes over double the frames to get there then standard, as well as her being 100% vulnerable and predictable before the explosion appears. I don't think you'd really be able to get away with any ledge guard shenanigans with it; even then she has better edge guard options. Passion would be purely yolo to throw them off once.

I don't believe Rejection actually gets "grab combos" like you've claimed. Maybe it isn't as bad as getting punished for hitting with it like I claimed, but the hit-stun is definitely too low for anything more then one, again "to throw them off" sort of one-time reward; and the whole thing that it restores recovery moves makes it suspect option for off-stage edge guards because of the no KB, even if it turns around.

Basically, it seems like there isn't very many sets that are still mostly standard, I think this should be rectified just a little. We've definitely gotten somewhere with a FEW of her customs, but most of the time I believe her standards do the job fine/better outside of some MU-specific needs, which can obviously be filled with some of the set spots.

Also, not related to the post, but @ Nairo considering you're repping Zelda out there and can be affected by the choices as well, what do you think are customs that could/should be present? Do you think any in particular are equal or more useful than their standards?

Actually I'm really not over hyping passion. On the ledge, due to the great range, if your in the right position. Yew can punish ledge get ups, get up attacks, and ledge rolls. Also it edgeguarding isn't YOLOing at all. If they get pulled by the wind box before they airdodge, then they'll get repositioned and possibly be under that stage depending on stage. If they don't air dodge they'll get by and get gimped. It's also safe on shield. The extra damage is also nice. Characters like marth with good range might be hard to punish since they'll be spacing but if we use passion, the range will probably hit them. Also isn't the range like 2 times more than love?

Also @ Nairo doesn't believe in her customs *smirks*

Then the sets should be

2312
2213
3312
3212
1213
1312
1223
1323
1313
1212

@John12346 I took everyone's requests and added them and fixed them.

I think this is better

 

[Nairo]

I am not sure what the best custom movesets are for Zelda at the moment. I need to mess around with them more which I will be doing soon. However I feel like people jumped the gun on her customs a bit too fast because it was something different without testing them in actual matches and based them off things that would not happen or rarely happen in a match (like the wind upb on ikes upb no Ike really would do it raw or thatd be a rare moment but even then you would have to do it the same time as the ike). But of course this is still speculation. At the moment things that could be changed IMO would probably be maybe phantom or/and dins. So her normal Upb her normal neutral b and customs for the other two specials would be a good set. MAYBE the neutral B can be changed but at the moment I like her standard neutral B. (If I were to pick a set it would probably be something like 111(2/3) or 1(2/3)1(1/2/3) )

 

[Helkulkhamen]

@ Macchiato It appears you listed 1313 twice. I assume that the second listing was intended to be 1312, correct?

 

[Meru.]

I have been playing with Zelda's customs a bit and I must say I'm disappointed in Din's Blaze. It just doesn't work well. It's way too predictable, slow and it's very easy to avoid. It's sad to say but I find Din's Fire better.

I haven't tried Nayru's Passion yet but honestly... in games without customs Nayru's Love is like the only special I can use reliable (outside Up B'ing for punishes) because of it's great range and invinicibility frames. This is actually a good move that fits her defensive style. It's a move I wouldn't like to replace, unless its replacements are REALLY good, but I don't feel Passion and especially Rejection offer anything noteworthy.

Strike is good. Its consistent since it doesn't whiff anymore, Phantom has good range and it can do insane damage. I especially like doing it in the air since I can move while being in the start-up frames. It's a very decent landing option, and it definitely scares them of punishing your landing since they may eat 20% damage. This is her only custom of which I'm convinced it's much better than her default.

Thus, I would like to use a simple 1113 set. I'm fairly convinced the Nayru's and Farore's customs don't offer anything above her default, and her default ones are pretty good, so I'm likely never going to use any of them. Din's Fire isn't a good move but the customs are looking even worse. I still have to use Din's Flare (or w/e it's called) though but I'm not going to put my hopes high.

 

[Macchiato]

I have been playing with Zelda's customs a bit and I must say I'm disappointed in Din's Flare. It just doesn't work well. It's way too predictable, slow and it's very easy to avoid. It's sad to say but I find Din's Fire better.

I haven't tried Nayru's Passion yet but honestly... in games without customs Nayru's Love is like the only special I can use reliable (outside Up B'ing for punishes) because of it's great range and invinicibility frames. This is actually a good move that fits her defensive style. It's a move I wouldn't like to replace, unless its replacements are REALLY good, but I don't feel Passion and especially Rejection offer anything noteworthy.

Strike is good. Its consistent since it doesn't whiff anymore, Phantom has good range and it can do insane damage. I especially like doing it in the air since I can move while being in the start-up frames. It's a very decent landing option, and it definitely scares them of punishing your landing since they may eat 30% damage. This is her only custom of which I'm convinced it's much better than her default.

Thus, I would like to use a simple 1113 set. I'm fairly convinced the Nayru's and Farore's customs don't offer anything above her default, and her default ones are pretty good, so I'm likely never going to use any of them. Din's Fire isn't a good move but the customs are looking even worse. I still have to use Din's Sniper (or w/e it's called) though but I'm not going to put my hopes high.

Dins flare is for some punishes. Blaze is the best probably.

The Nayru's have their own niche. Love is the best but in some match ups, the other is better for that situation.

I honestly like breaker due to the huge range and edgeguarding. It can catch a landing and many people have a habit to shield right away. It would be so much better if it was chargable. That's why in the sets I made, I tried to include every playstyle

 

[PUK]

I actually find flare pretty good. Sorry, it's not good, but at least it (can) forces approach, with his better speed, distance launch and continue power. It seems it at a shorter end lag too.

And wtf i just saw the kb set thing on phantom strike. Why? It's maybe one of the most powerful move of the game, and it's unable to kill.

 

[Meru.]

LOL sorry I meant Din's Blaze. Din's Blaze is very underwhelming, and IMO generally worse than Din's Fire.

I havent tried Din's Flare yet against opponents.

 

[BJN39]

LOL sorry I meant Din's Blaze. Din's Blaze is very underwhelming, and IMO generally worse than Din's Fire.

I havent tried Din's Flare yet against opponents.

THIS.

I really don't see any appeal in Blaze. It doesn't get larger/stronger than Fire until you've gotten through like, 50% of its distance, which takes FOREVER. Along with this it gives you nearly a second to react before exploding. So let that sink in; for half the time you're using it, you are literally using a Din's Fire that takes double the time to move and detonate. I guess the appeal is that if they can't hit you before the explosion then Zelda is technically able to escape.

Also, people like to talk about Strike having no blind spot, but I noticed no one mention that the full charge swing can actually not connect both hits quite often (especially if you hit with it close to the edge of the sword.) likely due to the developers just doing a raw hit-box increase and not tuning it. It also ticks me off that it still takes 19 or so frames to hit AT POINT BLANK when released at full charge.

 

[PUK]

Blaze detonate too soon or too late, it's a pain.
Also strike send bowser far enough uncharged. That plus no blindspot means it could be a really good tool.
Set knockback: a reflected one can't kill you (nice), you can't be punish on hit, it's safe on Shield and in double it's gonna be awesome because your teammate will have follow up.
And it seems it doesn't have standard's ending lag so maybe it could be good. And if it sucks fully charged, well i don't care as i have never the time to fully charge.

 

[Macchiato]

@ #HBC | Scary

Hey Ed, your one of our big reps. What do you think of her customs? I personally think that Din's Flare and Phantom Strike are better than the other variants.

Din's Flare - It is faster and has more range with exchange for vertical control. The think that I think makes it better is that it ALWAYS does the KB and damage of maximum distance Din's Fire. It's good for mid range punishes and kills really early. It also helps her force approaches, at least better than the other two. It has more onstage use than offstage but it can help edgeguard some recoveries.

Phantom Strike - It charges faster and has no blindspot. Also additionally, it semispikes and can gimp characters like shulk, link, or Ike and it also does a **** ton of damage. One other thing I've noticed it that when you hit with it uncharged, it makes them slide far away.

What's your set? In the link below, we discovered many things about her customs. In the OP near the bottom, we found AMAZING things about squall making it possibly better than default. Yew might wanna open up that spoiler. Since EVO and stuff, customs might be a good thing to look at.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-custom-laboratory-nayrus-rejection.391411/

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I actually ran some custom Zelda the other day. I agree with Nairo that Nayru's and FW will likely remain the same.

I see myself using 1312, 1313, or 1213. I certainly need to work it more and perhaps actually unlock the customs on my game since I literally have only practiced at tournaments or fests.

A random question, if some transfers all the presets onto the wiiU, does that mean you now have them unlocked?

 

[Macchiato]

I actually ran some custom Zelda the other day. I agree with Nairo that Nayru's and FW will likely remain the same.

I see myself using 1312, 1313, or 1213. I certainly need to work it more and perhaps actually unlock the customs on my game since I literally have only practiced at tournaments or fests.

A random question, if some transfers all the presets onto the wiiU, does that mean you now have them unlocked?

I don't see how blaze is good honestly. The cool down is horrible and it'll never explode when yew want it to. Imo flare>fire>blaze.

If yew transfer it yew'll still have to unlock them.

 

[PUK]

If you hit with blaze the shame on your opponent will be stronger than if he would be hit by falcon punch. Or even warlock. Blaze is the top of disrespect.
Flare is on the other hand a straight upgrade from fire: it can actually be used.

Breaker is pretty bad too. It doesn't really cover a zone you want absolutely to hit. But it could have uses in the right hands.

Finally squall is good, but modifies our game, and so does rejection (and passion). And people don't like to modify their game usually.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Yesterday Macchi said that Squall will eventually be superior over Wind since all you have to do is DI the first hit of Wind and not get hit or get hit by a sourspot. That's a very interesting and valid point, but people never seem to DI it s idk. If we do eventually switch over to Squal, modifying your gameplan might not be so bad

 

[Macchiato]

Yesterday Macchi said that Squall will eventually be superior over Wind since all you have to do is DI the first hit of Wind and not get hit or get hit by a sourspot. That's a very interesting and valid point, but people never seem to DI it s idk. If we do eventually switch over to Squal, modifying your gameplan might not be so bad

It also depends on if teleport Cancelling becomes a huge part of her meta game. If it is, then Wind due to it not being visible. If it isn't, then squall for obvious reasons.

 

[LRodC]

People can DI after the first hit of wind? It doesn't seem like it'd be escapable unless you messed up the sweetspot, but maybe that's why it sourspots sometimes. It doesn't seem like people on FG DI successfully from it at all, but it is FG.

 

[Cress!]

Phantom Striker is the only good custom for her. Maybe I'm just too used to her old moveset, but the rest of her defaults feel so much better than her customs.

 

[Macchiato]

Phantom Striker is the only good custom for her. Maybe I'm just too used to her old moveset, but the rest of her defaults feel so much better than her customs.

https://youtu.be/ssos9aF1pOU

 

[Cress!]

Welp, I guess I need to use Blaze more often.

 

[LRodC]

Wow, didn't even know Blaze could desynch. I should probably dedicate a few sets to it now.

 

[Oracle]

Custom zelda teaching us theres never a bad time to blaze it

 

[Macchiato]

Custom zelda teaching us theres never a bad time to blaze it

Wait oracle do you use Zelda in singles?

 

[Oracle]

Im just trying to find solid anti villager strats and I think zelda could be one. Why isnt default dins on any of the sets? Its strong, has a big hitbox, and can be tough to avoid. Also you can hit on the ledge, whereas side 2 cant and side 3 is very slow, which could be good vs villager

 

[Macchiato]

Im just trying to find solid anti villager strats and I think zelda could be one. Why isnt default dins on any of the sets? Its strong, has a big hitbox, and can be tough to avoid. Also you can hit on the ledge, whereas side 2 cant and side 3 is very slow, which could be good vs villager

We think it's a direct downgrade from default. It's super easy to dodge actually. A roll or shield beats it and it's predictable. If you saw this, you can see how useful blaze is. Flare is faster, goes farther, and is always as strong as full distance default. I don't see default is good tbh.

 

[Oracle]

It isnt useful in neutral, but it has a lot more uses in teams because you can aim it, as well as edgeguarding by forcing an airdodge, which you can then punish. Side 2 is pitifully easy to avoid because it cant be aimed. I dont think side 2 is useless, just that default dins is 100xbetter than yall give it credit for and it should have been on a few sets

 

[PUK]

We play with default every day. You can hit if: the opponent never airdodge, shield, try to challenge the explosion with an attack, move, roll, spotdodge, use some other options (fox can use his reflector, etc). It's actually the same song for custom din, but with different tempo.
Side 2 go farther, faster, and because of that safer. Side 3 is well slow, and really unsafe but pack some punch, and can be placed in critical places.
Both 3 of them can't be used if you're in advantage or disadvantage. It can be used in normal, but it's dangerous, or to edgeguard. And Zelda lives offstage like it's hyrule so it's not that useful.

And against camping villager, you won't use any phantom anyway (because pocket), so go default zelda, because it's the only case where din's fire can shine.
Also i think FW hit beneath the ledge lol.

And in team, well it's weird. I don't really see din's fire being so good, because the fact you can aim doesn't compensate the overall flaw. The stage control flare give, the smaller hitbox, the less commitment, is really good in double, while blaze can set up some hype combo. But i can't deny fire is more useful in double than in single. And in the custom project, double theorycrafting has not been made so side 1 disapeared.