Data Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Mii Brawler

[lolreconlol]

1132 has long since passed in the Brawler meta. You yourself stated it's problem, no problem dealing damage, can't KO. Drop the awkward slow moving projectile for an extra kill move as well as trading for a more damaging and stronger up B and you'll find yourself having less of a problem killing.

Thanks for the advice! I started using the heli kick after watching some of your videos.. really helps a lot. What loadout are you using?

 

[Jigglymaster]

Thanks for the advice! I started using the heli kick after watching some of your videos.. really helps a lot. What loadout are you using?

2122 with Default Size

 

[Ridel]

2122 with Default Size

How does diffult size do in comparison to small size? When I made my Walken Mii I made his size about 1/4 of the slide bar, so I put him right inbetween the smallest and medium.

 

[Jigglymaster]

How does diffult size do in comparison to small size? When I made my Walken Mii I made his size about 1/4 of the slide bar, so I put him right inbetween the smallest and medium.

The smallest size is the best, I just don't use it because I feel as if it should be banned, Tiny Mii is too powerful and IMO looks really stupid being that small.

 

[Ridel]

The smallest size is the best, I just don't use it because I feel as if it should be banned, Tiny Mii is too powerful and IMO looks really stupid being that small.

Banned, really? Why do you think so?

 

[Jigglymaster]

Banned, really? Why do you think so?

Tiny Mii Brawler can just do this and kill just about anyone from any where on the stage because he can chain F-airs into Helicopter Kick for free.

 

[Ridel]

Tiny Mii Brawler can just do this and kill just about anyone from any where on the stage because he can chain F-airs into Helicopter Kick for free.

Ohhh.....okay yeah that's pretty ridiculous so if I want a medium weight Mii I just put the height and width bar in the middle.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Ohhh.....okay yeah that's pretty ridiculous so if I want a medium weight Mii I just put the height and width bar in the middle.

Yup thats correct, it Guest Miis are also default in size as well

 

[Ridel]

Yup thats correct, it Guest Miis are also default in size as well

Okay just making sure, thanks!

 

[Marrow]

So, does Head-On Assault have any merit to it? It seems like Feint Jump is the preferred down special across the board.

 

[MoSBanapple]

Tiny Mii Brawler can just do this and kill just about anyone from any where on the stage because he can chain F-airs into Helicopter Kick for free.

While this combo is very powerful, isn't it possible to DI backwards on the first and not get hit by the f-airs, or DI away during the f-airs and escape the combo?

 

[MoSBanapple]

So, does Head-On Assault have any merit to it? It seems like Feint Jump is the preferred down special across the board.

While head-on assault can give easy smashes when landed, I think the mobility and recovery from feint jump outclasses it heavily.

 

[Jigglymaster]

While this combo is very powerful, isn't it possible to DI backwards on the first and not get hit by the f-airs, or DI away during the f-airs and escape the combo?

I'm sure the tiny brawler could easily adapt to the DI, given the tiny Brawler has the best air speed in the entire game.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I use 1122. (Please correct me if the code is wrong)

Shotput I mainly use it for edgeguard, or bombing from above.
Burning Drop Kick for the distance.
Soaring Axe Kick for the altitude.
Feint Jump for the mix up + additional jump.

I've recently picked Mii Brawler, so I'm not sure how his meta is evolving, but I chose this setup for two reasons.
Reason 1: Optimal recovery options. (Oro?)
Reason 2: It... kind of fits the character I made...

I've also been learning the 1111 set up just in case it becomes the standard rule, but I COULD adapt to any other setup. (Although I'm not a big fan of the "Exploding side Kick")

 

[MoSBanapple]

I use 1122. (Please correct me if the code is wrong)

Shotput I mainly use it for edgeguard, or bombing from above.
Burning Drop Kick for the distance.
Soaring Axe Kick for the altitude.
Feint Jump for the mix up + additional jump.

I've recently picked Mii Brawler, so I'm not sure how his meta is evolving, but I chose this setup for two reasons.
Reason 1: Optimal recovery options. (Oro?)
Reason 2: It... kind of fits the character I made...

I've also been learning the 1111 set up just in case it becomes the standard rule, but I COULD adapt to any other setup. (Although I'm not a big fan of the "Exploding side Kick")

What you're using is 1212. Personally, I don't think you need dropkick for recovery, since Feint Jump already gives you plenty of horizontal recovery. Also, using ax kick deprives Mii Brawler of his best kill moves (helicopter kick or piston punch), and feint jump + helicopter kick or piston punch is usually enough for recovery.

 

[RWB]

I've been playing around with Head-Ache Maker, and it's not nearly as terrible as I thought it was. The ability to delay or not delay it is very useful to catch air dodgers, and the power of the delayed version is pretty massive- and 12% is never anything to sneeze at.

It's just that Onslaught is so much better(BDK is too).

 

[shinhed-echi]

What you're using is 1212. Personally, I don't think you need dropkick for recovery, since Feint Jump already gives you plenty of horizontal recovery. Also, using ax kick deprives Mii Brawler of his best kill moves (helicopter kick or piston punch), and feint jump + helicopter kick or piston punch is usually enough for recovery.

Thanks, I'll start testing out helicopter kick. I might have needed soaring axe kick when I was extremely nooby as Mii Brawler, but now I've gotten used to him so my SD rate is much much lower. (Besides, Soaring Axe Kick doesn't reverse-ledge grab, so I won't be sad to change it).

 

[Sixfortyfive]

So, is there a standard for naming Miis of specific sizes? I want to accommodate as many options as possible for Mii players at tournaments I help run, and no one in the main thread for the custom moves project has an answer to this question.

For most characters, a custom set name just uses the NSUD specials (1111, 2222, 3333, or any combination thereof). Miis have more adjustable attributes, though (height and weight), so I want to know if there's a naming convention I should be using for those.

I was originally planning to use TNSUD-HHWW:
- Type (B for Brawler, etc.)
- NSUD specials
- Height (00 to 53, corresponding to values on the 3DS Mii Maker slider)
- Weight (same)

But this doesn't work because you can't have more than 5 numbers in a name. I was thinking that this could be circumvented by using A, B, C for specials instead of 1, 2, 3, but that isn't very elegant. Thoughts?

I'm also not sure if this has been brought up, but I've also noticed that the 3DS and Wii U Mii Makers have different levels of adjustment for size (54 for each attribute on 3DS, 128 for each attribute on Wii U).

 

[Raijinken]

Having played the 1/4 height min-width Brawler for a week or so as a pseudomain, here are my thoughts:

Falcon Punchkick is fun but not worth taking, despite its armor. I can see the appeal of the Uppercut as a kill move, but I far prefer the Shot Put over-all. Not a fan of the Uppercut putting me into freefall.

I far prefer Onslaught over the rest of the side-B options. I can see the other two being useful in very niche scenarios, but Onslaught seems to outclass them in most cases.

Helicopter Kick forever. Piston Punch is solely fun for the kill power on lightweights.

I run with Foot Flurry for 3, though I can see Flip Kick or whatever being useful, too.

 

[John12346]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets(8 Sets):
Mii Height: 1/4 Tall
Mii Weight: Thinnest
1122 1132 2122 2132 1222 1232 2222 2232

It seems kind of weird that you guys only have 8 sets right now! But you all seemed to agree that the other Custom Specials were next to worthless for Brawler, so that's just how it is. If you have any ideas to add more sets for this guy(you can have more than 10, since you're a Mii), I'd like to hear it. I heard some discussion on Foot Flurry a while back, maybe you want to expand on that?

Spoiler: Notes taken during preliminary creation of sets

Mii Brawler(8 sets):
1/4 height, thinnest
1/2, 1/2, 2/3, 2
1122 1132 2122 2132 1222 1232 2222 2232
Note: Need any Foot Flurry sets?

 

[Raijinken]

I personally run Foot Flurry because I tend to get more mileage out of its getup coverage than I do out of the flip kick, but I can run with either fine. I'd still lean to 1123 personally, with 1122 and 2122 as my fallbacks.

 

[John12346]

I mean, provided the four remaining special moves of Mii Brawler aren't useful, we could easily add Down3 and change 1/2, 1/2, 2/3, 2 to 1/2, 1/2, 2/3, 2/3, a total of 16 sets, which is a fine number of sets to have anyway. Gunner is going to have 15 sets and Swordfighter, 20, as it stands.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I'd like to voe that we should also be able to use Default Size for these loadouts, mostly due to the fact that it's what I know best and I'd like to keep with it, Tiny Mii Brawler is not for me.

 

[DanGR]

I'd like to voe that we should also be able to use Default Size for these loadouts, mostly due to the fact that it's what I know best and I'd like to keep with it, Tiny Mii Brawler is not for me.

Are the sets you're talking about for the custom moveset project or for EVO's custom sets?

If you're talking about EVO's custom sets, and you're going to EVO, then it makes sense to have at least a couple sets for you personally to use. However for the purpose of the project, I think it makes more sense to use only the most optimal sets.

 

[John12346]

Don't forget that, at non-national level tournaments, you'll -ideally- be able to import from your own personal 3DS to make up for any missing sets/Mii configurations that you may want to use. We fully intend to back this ideal when we release the final sets so we don't fall into the rut of tournaments going "EVO sets only, no imports."

 

[Raijinken]

Are we shooting for ideal or for most comfortable? I seem to recall reading Jigglymaster saying he was convinced the tiny ones are outright brokenly OP, but isn't that what we should be shooting for? Or should we just go with midrange because it's easier?

 

[John12346]

I would say ideal, and yes, I also do agree that, at least in Brawler's case, an optimized loadout would simply include smallest and thinnest, rather than the 1/4 height and thinnest design that Swordfighter and Gunner have agreed on. It's important that they have a small bit of height in order to better utilize their range and disjoints, but Brawler doesn't seem to really care about that, and would rather have his moves flying out as fast as he could possibly manage.

 

[DanGR]

Don't forget that, at non-national level tournaments, you'll -ideally- be able to import from your own personal 3DS to make up for any missing sets/Mii configurations that you may want to use. We fully intend to back this ideal when we release the final sets so we don't fall into the rut of tournaments going "EVO sets only, no imports."

Right, but character boards are optimizing their 10 custom sets with the assumption that you're not allowed to add your own. They aren't considering normal tournaments where you leave a couple slots open for imports. In a hypothetical situation where I'm only allowed 10 sets for the rest of my career, I'd choose them in a different manner than if I were to choose 7 as a base and was allowed 3 slots for imports whenever I want.

 

[John12346]

Keep in mind that we plan to arrange all characters' custom sets in order of how important they are to the character, and leaving the niche sets for the end. In this way, if someone wants to import a set of their own, they can do so by simply deleting a set or two off the END of the customs lineup for a given character. It's not the cleanest solution, but the best that can be done if we're forced to fill out the maximum number of sets for all characters.

 

[John12346]

My apologies for the double post, but what's it gonna be as far as Mii specifications? Will it be smallest and thinnest, or 1/4 height and thinnest? I need to ask because, unlike the combinations of custom sets, we won't be able to infer this answer from the discussion, so it would be helpful to have a concrete answer to work with.

As mentioned, I'm pretty sure smallest and thinnest is the best way to run Brawler, so keep in mind we'll probably default to that if there's no further discussion on the matter.

 

[MoSBanapple]

My apologies for the double post, but what's it gonna be as far as Mii specifications? Will it be smallest and thinnest, or 1/4 height and thinnest? I need to ask because, unlike the combinations of custom sets, we won't be able to infer this answer from the discussion, so it would be helpful to have a concrete answer to work with.

As mentioned, I'm pretty sure smallest and thinnest is the best way to run Brawler, so keep in mind we'll probably default to that if there's no further discussion on the matter.

I personally think that smallest/thinnest is the best combination for Brawler, since it maximizes Brawler's speed and agility while keeping the hitbox low.

 

[Esquire]

Hi! I was informed via /r/smashbros that the finalization of this project will be happening very soon, so I wanted to give my two cents on how the Custom Movesets should be chosen for Mii Brawler.

If you want to know my history with Mii Brawler or want more clarification on my rationale, feel free to check out the Mii Brawler guide I created for the site:
http://smashboards.com/guides/super-smash-bros-brawl-er-a-mii-brawler-guide-and-analysis.160/

Considering that there are multiple potential tournament rulesets to fill, and that each slot can host any set of custom moves AND Mii sizes, the following eight sets should be considered for inclusion:

1122 Small [100% necessary]
2122 Small [100% necessary]
1132 Small [100% necessary]
2132 Small [100% necessary]
1122 Wide [100% necessary]
2122 Wide [100% necessary]
2132 Wide [optional but preferred]
1132 Wide [optional]
1111 Normal [if non-Customs]
1122 Normal [if Customs on, Sizes not]
2122 Normal [if Customs on, Sizes not]
1132 Normal [if Customs on, Sizes not]
2132 Normal [if Customs on, Sizes not]
TOTAL: 13

To get it quickly out of the way, I don't think X1X2 should be disputed. Onslaught is definitely the superior Side B option as Burning Dropkick has both redundant recovery potential with Helicopter Kick/Feint Jump and has more unsafe properties compared to Onslaught, and Headache Maker is simply not good. Feint Jump, on the other hand, practically makes Mii Brawler the mobile threat he is. There is no other comparable Down B option in terms of usability.

Sets 1122 and 2122 with Small are, simply put, the standard Mii Brawler set-ups. They provide the most mobility for Mii Brawler and include the infamous Helicopter Kick UpB special for maximum combo reward. The choice between Shotput and Ultimate Uppercut is match-up specific and/or playstyle specific, as both are good moves and have their uses. 1132 and 2132 Small offer much of what the first two sets offer, but instead focuses around Piston Punch for One-Inch Punch match-ups. These are less frequent than the standard variations' match-ups, but still very important and very different from the first two variants.

1122 and 2122 Wide may seem like complete redundancy with 1122 and 2122 Small, but there's a key difference in that Short/Fat actually guarantees aerial combos that Short/Thin cannot. On a good deal of characters, for example, DThrow -> FAir -> FAir -> Helicopter Kick is a true combo string for Wide. The same cannot be said for Small. There's the drawback of jump height and mobility, but that's a choice for the player to make.

I recommend including 2132 Wide. 2132 Wide is super niche, but aerial combos are still easier to string with Short/Fat no matter what, even without Helicopter Kick. Added hitstun and damage is still a decent benefit if you want that. Also, 2132 is preferred over 1132 as Ultimate Uppercut benefits slightly more from Fat's added hitstun, and things like Jab1 -> Jab2 -> Ultimate Uppercut become easier to land. 1132 Wide is completely usable, but probably inferior to 1132 Small overall. Only add this if you feel the need to.

1122, 2122, 1132, and 2132 Normal are for tournament venues that allow customs but not variations in Mii sizes. They are not optimal compared to the other sets, but there are venues like this, so IMO there should be sets that are prepared to meet these rulesets.

That's it for me! Looking forward to finally seeing Mii Brawler in all of its glory soon.

 

[John12346]

This is a very good explanation of what a Wide Mii brings over a true Small Mii, and the movesets seem to agree with everyone else on the board, saying 1/2, 1/2, 2/3, 2/3 is a good lineup minus the Dropkick thing(some people do find more utility with it over Onslaught and we have room for sets so it's not too big a deal to just leave it in), but we still have the issue where we cannot include two different height/weight configurations for a single Mii Fighter in the project right now.

As it stands, the logistics of running Customs in the scene is seen as dubious at best, and we don't want to mess that up with variable Mii choices for each individual Mii Fighter. People might get confused about setting up Miis for individual movesets, or matching each QR Code properly to each moveset. Anything that might potentially increase confusion or setup time is something we really want to avoid if we can manage it.

I will ask the other guys in the project to see if we can't do something about this, but for now, can we be cool about having only one Mii configuration for now? Keep in mind that, for non-national sized tournies you should still be able to import all the Miis you want, so you can fill in for the missing height/weight configurations in that way.

 

[Esquire]

This is a very good explanation of what a Wide Mii brings over a true Small Mii, and the movesets seem to agree with everyone else on the board, saying 1/2, 1/2, 2/3, 2/3 is a good lineup minus the Dropkick thing(some people do find more utility with it over Onslaught and we have room for sets so it's not too big a deal to just leave it in), but we still have the issue where we cannot include two different height/weight configurations for a single Mii Fighter in the project right now.

As it stands, the logistics of running Customs in the scene is seen as dubious at best, and we don't want to mess that up with variable Mii choices for each individual Mii Fighter. People might get confused about setting up Miis for individual movesets, or matching each QR Code properly to each moveset. Anything that might potentially increase confusion or setup time is something we really want to avoid if we can manage it.

I will ask the other guys in the project to see if we can't do something about this, but for now, can we be cool about having only one Mii configuration for now? Keep in mind that, for non-national sized tournies you should still be able to import all the Miis you want, so you can fill in for the missing height/weight configurations in that way.

If this is the case, then you should absolutely choose Small. You can boil down Wide vs. Small to this: Wide provides players with easier combos, but has a low ceiling. Small provides players with more mobility and has a higher ceiling, but combo timing is strict. Small provides the most competitive upside, however, so choosing 1122, 2122, 1132, and 2132 Small as your set-ups is probably the best idea.

If you have room, I suppose 1222, 2222, 1232 and 2232 Small would be okay. I really don't see the benefit of Burning Dropkick, but if you have the space and time to include those options and people really want them, can't complain.

I would highly advise consulting about the size differences, however. This issue isn't simply about throwing in different sizes for different playstyles, there's a bigger issue at hand. The key difference between all of the Mii Fighters and other characters is that due to TO rulesets, their custom slots become less about custom usage and more about tournament viability. This can be alleviated somewhat by allowing people to bring their own Miis to smaller tournaments, true, but consistency would be optimal, and the ability to guarantee that players could actually use the character they want to use in all tournament formats is a big thing for Mii players. I completely understand the limitations of the project, however, and at least there's some recourse if size differences can't be implemented. I would just contend that Mii players would be more satisfied with ensuring Mii usage at all tournament formats rather than just making multiple slots for niche custom configurations, which is the major issue with some of the other characters in the game.

EDIT: Also, another way to alleviate this is to just try and standardize what Miis look like with Customs on. TO's need to have one set ruleset to go by, and not have the freedom between choosing whether Miis can have custom sizes or not. That's not really something for this project, though, but just another solution.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ultimate Uppercut
Burning Dropkick
Soaring Axe Kick
Feint Jump

I use the ultimate uppercut for a good KO move. I miss sometimes, but I find it better than a slow projectile, or a Falcon Punch.
I use the Burning Dropkick for great horizontal recovery. Also, Onslaught tends to get blocked a lot, and Headache Maker sucks.
I use Soaring Axe Kick to mix up my attacks.
Fient Jump is Burning Dropkick, and Soaring Axe Kick combined. Plus it has slight unpredictability to it.
I use a medium size Mii
EDIT: By medium I meant normal size.

 

[DelxDoom]

is there any way to make the short jump height shorter?

 

[Marrow]

is there any way to make the short jump height shorter?

To my knowledge the only way you can do that is with a bigger Mii, which has other unfortunate drawbacks.

 

[DelxDoom]

okay. i tried some stuff and it seemed like width made miis jump shorter and move horizontally slower than thin miis.
tall miis over short have the same effect, but tall miis have additional range on their moves but more recovery (lag) on their moves.

with this in mind, i figure short and default width is one of the most optimal mii brawlers.
a shorter short hop is important, possibly more than the horizontal movement that thin mii gives.

also, piston punch is more reliable than helicopter kick. guaranteed combo into it w/ dthrow from 0-80ish on average fall speed chars, and the 70-80 range it will KO with no rage. with rage it can KO from as low as a grab at 40.

on fast fallers (tested on falcon) dthrow up b works until 120ish, and it starts killing around 90ish no rage.

dthrow uair up B works sometimes. around 50-60. usually won't KO unless rage is in effect.

this is all on FD. on delfino/halberd i think upB 3 is by far the optimal choice. you can easily find very low percent KOs.

i do think piston punch is bannable if the goal of customs is to create a more balanced and varied game.

here is my video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbhqyRj23E4

 

[Galaxian]

The Mii Brawler set I'm using right now is 1132. It's okay, but Piston Punch has been..less than helpful.

What's a better set I can use?

 

[Esquire]

The Mii Brawler set I'm using right now is 1132. It's okay, but Piston Punch has been..less than helpful.

What's a better set I can use?

Your best bet, if you want to stick with 11X2, is to go 1122. Helicopter Kick + Feint Jump gives you one of the best horizontal recoveries in the game, and you can net KO's extremely early against a majority of the cast with it. 1112 gives you more vertical recovery, but you miss out on a valuable KO option and combo ender, both moves that can really only be filled by Piston Punch or Helicopter Kick. 1122 is pretty much the essential Mii Brawler set, competing with 2122 (although the choice is largely MU-dependent).