Data Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Mii Brawler

Amazing Ampharos

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#1
Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

Since your character is a Mii Fighter, we will need to know Mii Size in addition to moveset. We'll be representing minimum size as Small, maximum size as Big, min height max width as Wide, max height min width as Tall, and the default Mii as Normal. If you wish to use a size that does not fit any of those criteria, please indicate it as Custom and describe precisely how the parameters are to be set.

As a Mii Fighter, your character does not have slot limits like an ordinary fighter. You are free to include as many sets as will be useful and are not limited to six, but please do try to only include sets that are reasonably likely to be picked as creating Miis is a slower and more time consuming process than setting custom movesets for an ordinary fighter.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.
 

HermitHelmet

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#2
So, what is happening concerning the "1 Inch Punch OHKO"? Can we post that as a Part of our moveset?

If not, my suggestion is:
1 - Shot Put
1 - Onslaught
2 - Helicopter Kick
2 - Feint Jump

Also, I suggest we use Guest Mii 1 (Black Hair, Male, Dark Skin). I think Brawler suits having a lightweight playstyle, it gives it a lot less mobility otherwise.
 

GS3K

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#3
Mine is

Neutral - (2) Ultimate uppercut
Side -
(1) Onslaught
Up -
(3) Piston punch
Down -
(2) Feint Jump

My mii size is (custom?). Slightly above average height. Medium weight.
 

HermitHelmet

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#4
Mine is

Neutral - (2) Ultimate uppercut
Side -
(1) Onslaught
Up -
(3) Piston punch
Down -
(2) Feint Jump
I'm curious, what makes you use the second neutral b custom? It acts as a slighter stronger chargeable F-Smash, it has the same range, and the Shot Put is crucial for movement and zoning.


By the way, if you're wondering about the shot-put, have a gander at this video I put together yesterday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J2Ubq9AGIY
 

GS3K

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#5
I tend to use the super armor on the full charge as a sort of counterattack if timed right. I wouldn't try doing this a lot, because you can end up taking a lot of damage.

Saw the shot put video yesterday. I managed to do it while messing around in training. Pretty nice.
 
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Dapuffster
#6
1 - Shotput
1 - Onslaught
2 - Helicopter Kick
2 - Feint Jump

guest Mii A B or C. That will make it always Default Weight/height.

This is the only one that should be allowed imo, picking anything else is essentially nerfing the character and I'd like to avoid the whole piston punch "One Inch Punch" Scenario.
 
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BigLord

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#7
This is the only one that should be allowed imo, picking anything else is essentially nerfing the character and I'd like to avoid the whole piston punch "One Inch Punch" Scenario.
Wait, what? Only one "allowed" how? That's not how this project works, they'll pick VARIOUS movesets, not just one.

Good idea using the guest Miis, though.

My moveset is
1 - Shotput
1 - Onslaught
3 - Piston Punch
2 - Feint Jump

I'm using Piston Punch until it's officially banned :/ I like helicopter kick too, but getting rid of one our best killing moves... meh.
 
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#11
Go ahead. I've seen the stuff hellicopter can do offstage. But They may be equal.
For starters, helicopter kick does 17% compared to PP's 10%. From a single d-throw at below 30% you can guarantee a 23% combo. If brawler lands 2 throws he can easily get you up to 46% just like that.

Speaking around 46%, d-throw into f-air into f-air into HK is another combo that will kill. The thing about PP is that it only gets early kills if you bait somebody to a high platform and land the combo, and hope that they're lightweight. HK does not care for any of this and just kills at a constant 60-70% or so. It is not stage dependent like PP is nor is it weight dependent. The ONLY category I see PP over HK is in the recovery department because HK Loadout has almost no vertical recovery. However, its still a small tradeoff considering your horizontal recovery is pretty much uncontested now.

Idk, I see it as a much more versatile move and it covers a lot of situations much better than PP ever could. If your opponent learns the matchup and doesn't get baited to the platform, you're out of luck with the PP. With Helicopter kick it doesn't matter where they are on the stage. He's gonna get you.
 
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#12
For starters, helicopter kick does 17% compared to PP's 10%. From a single d-throw at below 30% you can guarantee a 23% combo. If brawler lands 2 throws he can easily get you up to 46% just like that.

Speaking around 46%, d-throw into f-air into f-air into HK is another combo that will kill. The thing about PP is that it only gets early kills if you bait somebody to a high platform and land the combo, and hope that they're lightweight. HK does not care for any of this and just kills at a constant 60-70% or so. It is not stage dependent like PP is nor is it weight dependent. The ONLY category I see PP over HK is in the recovery department because HK Loadout has almost no vertical recovery. However, its still a small tradeoff considering your horizontal recovery is pretty much uncontested now.

Idk, I see it as a much more versatile move and it covers a lot of situations much better than PP ever could. If your opponent learns the matchup and doesn't get baited to the platform, you're out of luck with the PP. With Helicopter kick it doesn't matter where they are on the stage. He's gonna get you.
Yes, but then there's actual recovery. I know that offstage Heli is ridiculous, but you ruin the risk of SDing by going too far. One Inch Punch isn't all Piston Punch has going for it. Vertical recovery is still good.
 

BigLord

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#13
^Exactly the reason why I still use Piston Punch after trying out Helicopter Kick. But why not have both? Both moves have their benefits.
 
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#14
How is onslaught better than the drop kick? Onsalught can easily be DI'd out of, or dodged while being stuck in movement animation.

Dropkick plus Feint Jump leads to insane recoveries that I think are non-negotiable.
 

BigLord

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#15
You don't really need Dropkick when you've got Feint Jump, though. It's already insane as it is.

I like onslaught because it's a roll punisher that can KO, like Cpt. Falcon's Raptor Boost :)
 
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#16
Drop kick has a pretty slow start up. Neither it or Onslaught are generally good moves but Onslaught is slightly better just as Biglord said, it punishes rolls and it will work if you only use it once a match or so.
 
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#17
I agree they are both subpar moves, but if you use dropkick after going off stage, that means you have the option of recovering high, saving your feint jump to dodge projectiles or aerials, and you reduce gimping opportunities.

Id even argue that at ranges around 160, dropkick can even punish back rolls for KOs. Im sure Onslaught is inf better at it though

Whats Onslaughts Ko potential? In my experience, people would airdodge through it or find ways to activate that animation without getting hit by it and get rekt.
 

ArticulateT

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#18
I'm currently rocking

2 - Ultimate Uppercut
2 - Burning Dropkick
2 - Helicopter Kick
2 - Feint Jump

The default guest miis are pretty much the best option for a default sizing. Personally, the sizing might be a slight improvement on my own Mii, since it's a tad shorter, and therefore faster, but deals about the same damage.

I used to have Onslaught as a sideB, but in practice I found it much more difficult to land. Burning Dropkick works fine for punishing rolls as the hitbox will usually travel with the roller, unless they as aiming to move behind you, at which point you're likely far enough away for them to not punish the miss. I guess I've just had more success with it.

As for Ultimate Uppercut, I think I explained my preference for it in my analysis thread, and am currently in the process of uploading some test recordings of some matches that might show the versatility of the move itself.
 

BigLord

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#19
Whats Onslaughts Ko potential? In my experience, people would airdodge through it or find ways to activate that animation without getting hit by it and get rekt.
Errm, you use it while airborne? Don't do it, it's unsafe. Use it SPARINGLY (like @ Jigglymaster Jigglymaster said) and they will never see it coming if the opponent is spamming rolls or you just think he's going to roll.
 

BigLord

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#21
Then people will stop fearing the One-Inch-Punch and start fearing the whole Helicopter Kick move, instead :V

I'll stick to my custom moves. Long live the pistoned punches.
 
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#22
I switch between 1132 and 2132. The toss-up between Ultimate Uppercut and Shot Put is real; I like the projectile, but it's slow, and a fully-changed uppercut KOs really early. As for size, I use a Small mii with normal width
 
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#24
Does Ultimate Uppercut (Standard 2) has super armor? If so, I could see it be very useful to punish smash attacks even further. Are there other Specials that have super armor?
 

GS3K

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#25
Does Ultimate Uppercut (Standard 2) has super armor? If so, I could see it be very useful to punish smash attacks even further. Are there other Specials that have super armor?
It does fully charged.
 
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#26
Drop kick has a pretty slow start up. Neither it or Onslaught are generally good moves but Onslaught is slightly better just as Biglord said, it punishes rolls and it will work if you only use it once a match or so.
Only once a match or so?? Seriously? If it gives me an advantage, I can combo into it easily enough, and I know how to catch my opponent off guard, why not use it more? Besides, I've got:
Neutral Special: Ultimate Uppercut
Side Special: Onslaught
Up Special: Soaring Axe Kick
Down Special: Feint Jump

I usually go from Onslaught into a Soaring Axe Kick. It's just my style really. I should probably polish the aerials too, while I'm working on my combos.....

I'm actually thinking of changing his down special to foot flurry. I've just got the feeling, I'm better with characters that don't have some weird jumping movement. I admit, it's great for catching people off guard, but all that jumping won't help you much in 8 player smash. I think one on one battles is where this technique truly shines!
 
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#27
I agree they are both subpar moves, but if you use dropkick after going off stage, that means you have the option of recovering high, saving your feint jump to dodge projectiles or aerials, and you reduce gimping opportunities.

Id even argue that at ranges around 160, dropkick can even punish back rolls for KOs. Im sure Onslaught is inf better at it though

Whats Onslaughts Ko potential? In my experience, people would airdodge through it or find ways to activate that animation without getting hit by it and get rekt.
Ugh. I hate it when that happens. I actually haven't been punished yet after screwing up Onslaught. Luckily my fighter seems to finish the animation quickly enough to allow me to get out of that kind of situation.

Then people will stop fearing the One-Inch-Punch and start fearing the whole Helicopter Kick move, instead :V

I'll stick to my custom moves. Long live the pistoned punches.
What is this One-Inch-Punch thing I keep hearing about?
 
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#28
Only once a match or so?? Seriously? If it gives me an advantage, I can combo into it easily enough, and I know how to catch my opponent off guard, why not use it more? Besides, I've got:
Neutral Special: Ultimate Uppercut
Side Special: Onslaught
Up Special: Soaring Axe Kick
Down Special: Feint Jump

I usually go from Onslaught into a Soaring Axe Kick. It's just my style really. I should probably polish the aerials too, while I'm working on my combos.....

I'm actually thinking of changing his down special to foot flurry. I've just got the feeling, I'm better with characters that don't have some weird jumping movement. I admit, it's great for catching people off guard, but all that jumping won't help you much in 8 player smash. I think one on one battles is where this technique truly shines!
Eh, Onslaught has a slow start up that anyone can react to and shield, if they shield it, they can easily punish you with a smash attack, the cool down on Onslaught is that big. Its only useful for reading rolls where they're in a position that they can't shield.

Also, I don't know how exactly you combo from onslaught into axe kick, theres no possible way you could actually do that. In fact, axe kick doesn't combo or kill, yet both Helicopter kick and Piston Punch do. Helicopter Kick does a whopping 17% and kills from a d-throw combo at around 60%. Meanwhile Piston Punch has, well....

The one Inch punch
 

XJ9

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#30
What is this One-Inch-Punch thing I keep hearing about?
One Inch Punch is a reference to Bruce Lee for the name, for those who might somehow be unaware: Bruce Lee is widely considered the greatest martial artist. Of his moves, One Inch Punch is known which is an exercise to improve your punching power at short distance. This would allow for a dramatic increase in speed while still packing a punch.

Anyway, as for the punch itself in SSB4: It's a gimmick/technique/bug whatever you want to call it where Piston Punch (?) is able to throw enemies ridiculously far even at 0%. On some maps with really tiny ceilings (Yoshi Island, I think Battlefield, and mid transition Castle Siege, there are more) the distance is actually capable of K-Oing someone at 0% by punching them upward. The combo typically done is a up throw, short hop and up-b, in certain maps and spots this is enough to kill them, even at 0%.
 

Neil.

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#32
So the consensus is not to use Piston Punch for moral reasons? lol it seems pretty broken. Just found out about One-Inch-Punch today and to my surprise it's easy as sh*t to pull off o.0

Isn't it superior to Helicopter kick? :/
 
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#34
Eh, Onslaught has a slow start up that anyone can react to and shield, if they shield it, they can easily punish you with a smash attack, the cool down on Onslaught is that big. Its only useful for reading rolls where they're in a position that they can't shield.

Also, I don't know how exactly you combo from onslaught into axe kick, theres no possible way you could actually do that. In fact, axe kick doesn't combo or kill, yet both Helicopter kick and Piston Punch do. Helicopter Kick does a whopping 17% and kills from a d-throw combo at around 60%. Meanwhile Piston Punch has, well....

The one Inch punch
Well, what I do is I throw off my opponents timing with onslaught. It may pause at the beginning of the attack, but after that it surges forward at a pretty good speed. If it looks like they're going to avoid it, I just shield and then give myself distance so I can plan another attack. This next attack will most likely come from the air and consist of a short hop to get behind someone, and then using back air. Depending on how far they fly I usually start to charge or if I already have a fully charged Ultimate Uppercut on hand, I find a way to set it up.
 
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#35
I like using something different to everyone else apparently.

1 - shot put
3 - headache maker
2 - helicopter kick
3 - foot flurry

I use shot put for obvious reasons. Headache maker because I use it to throw off my opponents with the added mobility and keep them guessing. Helicopter kick for the combo potential, high damage, and high kill potential. Foot Flurry because it's amazing at chasing rolls and if it's shielded, you fly right passed them. It's also really good at edge guarding since you sit in the air with a hitbox out for a long time.
 
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Dapuffster
#36
So Im back here once more to talk about Shotput vs Ultimate Uppercut, and how I think the latter is a straight upgrade.

Shotput doesn't kill and it isn't so great in the neutral game, whereas uppercut kills mad early and you find lots of time to charge it up, I can get a good 2-3 times in a single stock. Heres the thing, Mii Brawler actually performs worse if he racks on too much damage too quickly. He has a bit of a golden moment where he can kill early at a certain percent (generally between 30-60). Shot put only racks damage, it doesn't really kill. And he can't use it as a zoning tool thats for sure. Its not actually..... doing anything for him. Uppercut on the otherhand, gets things done, first off, fully charged its a kill move. This kills at like 80%, thats crazy. But you say to yourself, "It takes too long to charge up!" Mii Brawler is mobile enough that he can charge and get away with it, it also forces his opponents to approach, you get one for free after taking a stock, and after a f-throw at higher percents. Should also mention that this move has super armor, meaning you can throw it out against an aggressive opponent. I've been playing against others and I've been killing ALOT with it. Why I was using shotput instead of this move is way beyond me.
 
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#37
Shotput has bad neutral, is not a zoning tool, and does nothing for him? :roll:

Helicopter kick basically fulfills the role uppercut fills already. It just doesn't have armor and does somewhat less damage but it requires no charge and is super easy to combo into.
 
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#38
Shotput has bad neutral, is not a zoning tool, and does nothing for him? :roll:

Helicopter kick basically fulfills the role uppercut fills already. It just doesn't have armor and does somewhat less damage but it requires no charge and is super easy to combo into.
Uppercut is stronger than Helicopter Kick, and you can use it anywhere in the stage. The super armor is also very apparent and it works. Idk what you find fascinating about Shot put really, it leaves tons of openings (bad in neutral), its slow (not a zoning tool), and it does damage which is something mii brawler doesn't even need. It'd be good for other characters, but not for him, its really pointless when uppercut is around... there will be times i've killed with uppercut and I'll be like "Yeah, that wasn't possible with shotput." Helicopter kick is great, but it doesn't always cover everything, more more kill options he has the better.
 
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#39
Uppercut is not universally better than Shot Put.

Shot Put allows you to float in the direction of your choice in mid-air (probably the only place you should use it) while throwing it which makes it safe to use unless you are using it recklessly. I shouldn't have to explain why having a high damage and safe poke is good. Uppercut may be an option if you don't feel you would be able to make good use of Shot Put in a specific match-up, but saying Shot Put is useless is really something.
 
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Dapuffster
#40
Uppercut is not universally better than Shot Put.

Shot Put allows you to float in the direction of your choice in mid-air (probably the only place you should use it) while throwing it which makes it safe to use unless you are using it recklessly. I shouldn't have to explain why having a high damage and safe poke is good. Uppercut may be an option if you don't feel you would be able to make good use of Shot Put in a specific match-up, but saying Shot Put is useless is really something.
Uh uh......

Maybe you don't understand that racking up too much damage is actually BAD for Mii Brawler.

You know that right?

What does shot put do? Rack up damage. Thats all it does, I know you can move in the direction you used it, so what? It still leaves openings. You landed a safe poke, so what? You just racked damage. Now explain how you plan to kill without being able to combo into Helicopter Kick? You have to get a hard read, wouldn't it be nice to have an extra kill option, that, I don't know.... kills at 80%? I sure would like that. Could other characters use Shotput? Probably. You might ask "Well jigglymaster! all other moves do is just rack up damage, they're usless too right?" No, other moves actually combo into kill moves and don't take 1 million years to perform.

Let me state one example in a Mii Brawler ditto. If one Mii Brawler is at 120% and the other is at 40%? Who has the advantage? If you guessed 40%, you're wrong. The guy at 120% is immune to d-throw into Helicopter Kick while the 40% is. Huge disadvantage. Not landing the killing Helicopter Kick Combo at 40%-50% hurts Brawler so badly. You shouldn't be using Shot Put then, and you shouldn't be using it after, unless it actually can kill, its not doing you any good.

Shotput isn't just useless, using it actually harms the brawler's chance of victory. If you actually consider using shotput in a match, 99% of time you're actually better off doing something else. Each time you use it, you're heavily risking yourself to get punished heavily for it. A sheik will nab you with a bouncing fish, or another Mii Brawler well get that grab he needs to finish the game, all because you wanted to get 15% when you could've easily achieved the same from another attack.
 
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