Official Stage Discussion

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Has it been suggested that 64 versions be (Z)ecret alts and then Have HD as the orginals, and someting new as an L alt? We all win that way. I like the Idea of creating a hybrid of the N64 blast zones, and Melee ones for DL, but for reasons never quite explained, (Because Melee) I doubt that will happen. To be fair though, PM is its own game, and deserves some individualism.

That's already exactly what they're doing.

 

[GFooChombey]

Since the DL discussion is slowing down, I have an interesting side topic.

With the introduction of the stage/rel alts, are individualized break the target stages actually feasible now? I didn't care much about the thought when there was a limited amount of stage slots, but now..

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Since the DL discussion is slowing down, I have an interesting side topic.

With the introduction of the stage/rel alts, are individualized break the target stages actually feasible now? I didn't care much about the thought when there was a limited amount of stage slots, but now..

I'm actually really curious about this. I haven't thought about it before. Some may say making them wouldn't be worth the effort, but I disagree. BTT is another way to play the game, and I personally sunk a lot of time into the Melee BTT. I remember working to complete all of them in under 30 second each, which isn't the most impressive thing, but it was still a fun challenge.

 

[Sandfall]

Thanks for the feedback on this old competitive gem.

Now let's discuss a casual stage that was introduced in 3.5: Hanenbow!

 

[Nefnoj]

Everything is perfect, though music glitchies sometimes.

 

[InfinityCollision]

My one and only gripe with Hanenbow is that the platforms eat projectiles. If they could somehow interact with normal hitboxes but not projectiles it'd probably be my favorite casual stage.

 

[GFooChombey]

It's better than it was, but I just don't see the appeal.

Elaboration time! I posted that while twiddling my thumbs after work, but before a meeting and didn't put nearly enough thought into it.

The concept of leaves that change position upon contact is actually neat, but not when the entire stage (in original context) are made from that. The ledges that can't be grabbed are another issue. To top it off, the soundtrack is quite boring even if it is quite faithful to the source.
Then we have the PM version which is definitely improved. The leaves on the ledge can be grabbed, the soundtrack is a little more interesting, and there is a flower pot to act as neutral center stage, yet still I dislike it. Maybe I just have a negative connotation after all these years, or maybe it just wasn't enough to keep my interest, but this is one of my least played stages aside from vBrawl stages.

 

[himemiya]

There's nothing wrong with it though I wish the vbrawl alt was nonexistent.

 

[The Incinerator]

Personally I like the stage a lot more now after the redesign. I never ever really played the brawl version before the changes as I found the design so poor for fighting on but now with the changes me and my friends will occasionally pick it for funsies. Some things I wish could be implemented to make it a little less "purely casual" would be to have a minimum time for the platforms to be locked in place before they can be hit and will move again (perhaps have the colours show when they can and cannot be hit) This would just make it so that the platforms jumble around a bit less erratically (less like a dog wagging it's tail) and therefore you could actually appreciate the interesting platform layouts possible with the changing slopes. Also as mentioned before it would be nice if projectiles didn't interact with leaves though I doubt that's necessarily even possible.

 

[Sandfall]

Everything is perfect, though music glitchies sometimes.

Awwww thanks
Anyway, regarding the music, it's probably because of data fragmenting on your SD card. Reformatting and reinstalling the build should fix that issue

My one and only gripe with Hanenbow is that the platforms eat projectiles. If they could somehow interact with normal hitboxes but not projectiles it'd probably be my favorite casual stage.

That sort of thing has never really been done before (for stages, anyway), but I'd imagine it would be possible. I'll look into it when I have time.

There's nothing wrong with it though I wish the vbrawl alt was nonexistent.

Honestly, we only included the vBrawl alt because we couldn't really imagine anything else being a good alt for this stage. I doubt most people have a strong attachment to vBrawl Hanenbow, so we'd most likely be able to replace it if someone comes up with an idea for another Electroplankton based stage. I'm definitely open to suggestions on that one.

 

[Draco_The]

One based on Rec-Rec with the plakton as moving platforms?

 

[Rai-Zikudo]

Maybe a rhythm DS title like Rhythm Heaven or Elite Beat agents? More preferably the latter?

 

[himemiya]

Maybe a rhythm DS title like Rhythm Heaven or Elite Beat agents? More preferably the latter?

Well the stage would still have to blend with the already inserted custom hanenbow theme.

Honestly, we only included the vBrawl alt because we couldn't really imagine anything else being a good alt for this stage. I doubt most people have a strong attachment to vBrawl Hanenbow, so we'd most likely be able to replace it if someone comes up with an idea for another Electroplankton based stage. I'm definitely open to suggestions on that one.

Rec-Rec (Stage based) Like in the game have the fishes connect to a string to keep the stage afloat
Beatnes (platforms) have those chained planktons be platforms on the sides (one traingle one being more wider and flatter and one square being more rectangler)
Nanocarp/lumiloop/luminaria (bg combo) Somehow taking aesthetics from these lvl and add flashy colors then mix them into one background and have the bars/waves be in sync with garett's hanenbow theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttFoK8BTXM4

Something I pulled out of my ass.

 

[Nefnoj]

This might make it worse, but what if the Brawl version of Hanenbow had the water level lowered, and in its former place, some stable ground? You could potentially make the branches function as platforms and have collision, or maybe make the water swimmable, though the latter might be impossible.

 

[Mc.Rad]

Well the stage would still have to blend with the already inserted custom hanenbow theme.

What about Micro-Row???

 

[flintconfirmed]

I don't have any problems with it, but I don't really like it.

The only real issue I have is with Electroplankton's inclusion in general, starting with Brawl. It just never seemed like a brand that really needed Smash representation. But I can understand if some people really loved that game. To me, it seemed like it was just blatant advertising and didn't really add any interest to the game.

But I could never find it in my heart to replace it with anything since you guys made a remake of it.

 

[himemiya]

What about Micro-Row???

What about it?

 

[GFooChombey]

What about Micro-Row???

How on Earth would you turn that into a stage?

 

[Mc.Rad]

How on Earth would you turn that into a stage?

How on Earth did they turn Heavenbow into a stage?

 

[himemiya]

How on Earth did they turn Heavenbow into a stage?

Idk if I've missed inside joke or not but https://youtu.be/ttFoK8BTXM4?t=1m25s the stage was already layout like that.

 

[_Chrome]

I don't really like it: the music and aesthetics don't cut it for me, and the platforms I find are just a nuisance/frustrating. I can understand if other people like it though: it is a casual stage and everyone has different tastes. If I recall correctly, the Elektroplankton aren't annoying to me and I kinda like 'em. :3 But my opinion on that doesn't matter too much since I dislike the stage as a whole. It's probably one of my least favourite stages in Project M.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Hanenbow was a stage for which I had been eagerly anticipating a revamp. Its leaves are neat elements that can allow for a lot, and I just love its aesthetic (speaking of which, can we get the musicless version as a secret alt? I always thought the stillness added to the ambiance). Thank you, Dev Team, for making one; it does not disappoint.

But, my cogs are always turning and I can't keep my eyes off the possibilities, so I have another mock-up.

If Hanenbow has a problem, it's that it's too concentrated on the leaves. It's hard to explore the effects that the individual leaves have on the basic game when together they change gameplay so much; it makes it feel more like a bunch of leaves used as a stage, rather than a stage that makes use of leaves to add some things new. And it makes counterplay difficult when there's nowhere one can go to get away from them. They're everywhere, causing hitlag, eating projectiles, and drastically altering edgeplay. Hence, I feel a sparser placement could be an improvement.

​

This allows one to focus on the location and status of each leaf, to better integrate them into one's strategy. And if you ever hit one you didn't mean to, or have to recover/edgeguard without their aid (I particularly like the fact that which one is favorable depends on the players and matchup), you can be assured it is due to your own poor positioning or your opponent exerting control.
Fewer platforms may also cut down on campability. It seems like it would still have some issues, though, as fewer escape methods also means fewer approaches, but the top platform here also puts one perilously closer to offstage. I do like the idea behind the current layout, but think it could use the extra attention a stage designed around it could provide; supplemental elements to hold it together. This layout is still fairly unique, though, and asymmetric. Asymmetry is very important in a stage, to minimize redundancy and make the most of the space provided, exploring a new facet of the game in each locale.
Which is why the side leaf is great. What's it for? I dunno, that's the point. It's way over there, kinda seeming too far for teching or walljumping. But it's not really detrimental, either, and it leaves () room for creativity. The lack of an obvious use just makes it all the more hype when it does come into play.

 

[_Chrome]

Hanenbow was a stage for which I had been eagerly anticipating a revamp. Its leaves are neat elements that can allow for a lot, and I just love its aesthetic (speaking of which, can we get the musicless version as a secret alt? I always thought the stillness added to the ambiance). Thank you, Dev Team, for making one; it does not disappoint.

But, my cogs are always turning and I can't keep my eyes off the possibilities, so I have another mock-up.

If Hanenbow has a problem, it's that it's too concentrated on the leaves. It's hard to explore the effects that the individual leaves have on the basic game when together they change gameplay so much; it makes it feel more like a bunch of leaves used as a stage, rather than a stage that makes use of leaves to add some things new. And it makes counterplay difficult when there's nowhere one can go to get away from them. They're everywhere, causing hitlag, eating projectiles, and drastically altering edgeplay. Hence, I feel a sparser placement could be an improvement.

​

This allows one to focus on the location and status of each leaf, to better integrate them into one's strategy. And if you ever hit one you didn't mean to, or have to recover/edgeguard without their aid (I particularly like the fact that which one is favorable depends on the players and matchup), you can be assured it is due to your own poor positioning or your opponent exerting control.
Fewer platforms may also cut down on campability. It seems like it would still have some issues, though, as fewer escape methods also means fewer approaches, but the top platform here also puts one perilously closer to offstage. I do like the idea behind the current layout, but think it could use the extra attention a stage designed around it could provide; supplemental elements to hold it together. This layout is still fairly unique, though, and asymmetric. Asymmetry is very important in a stage, to minimize redundancy and make the most of the space provided, exploring a new facet of the game in each locale.
Which is why the side leaf is great. What's it for? I dunno, that's the point. It's way over there, kinda seeming too far for teching or walljumping. But it's not really detrimental, either, and it leaves () room for creativity. The lack of an obvious use just makes it all the more hype when it does come into play.

The only problem I see is the side leaf being used for camping or stalling like in Yoshi's Story 64. Otherwise the stage looks like something I'd actually enjoy. To me, the old stage interfered with gameplay too much, but this way the leaves are actually used for interaction with the opponent and some sort of positional advantage unseen in other stages. Even the side platform isn't much of a problem, since it is much closer than the one in Yoshi's, but nonetheless it still could be a nuisance.

 

[GFooChombey]

Hanenbow was a stage for which I had been eagerly anticipating a revamp. Its leaves are neat elements that can allow for a lot, and I just love its aesthetic (speaking of which, can we get the musicless version as a secret alt? I always thought the stillness added to the ambiance). Thank you, Dev Team, for making one; it does not disappoint.

But, my cogs are always turning and I can't keep my eyes off the possibilities, so I have another mock-up.

If Hanenbow has a problem, it's that it's too concentrated on the leaves. It's hard to explore the effects that the individual leaves have on the basic game when together they change gameplay so much; it makes it feel more like a bunch of leaves used as a stage, rather than a stage that makes use of leaves to add some things new. And it makes counterplay difficult when there's nowhere one can go to get away from them. They're everywhere, causing hitlag, eating projectiles, and drastically altering edgeplay. Hence, I feel a sparser placement could be an improvement.

​

This allows one to focus on the location and status of each leaf, to better integrate them into one's strategy. And if you ever hit one you didn't mean to, or have to recover/edgeguard without their aid (I particularly like the fact that which one is favorable depends on the players and matchup), you can be assured it is due to your own poor positioning or your opponent exerting control.
Fewer platforms may also cut down on campability. It seems like it would still have some issues, though, as fewer escape methods also means fewer approaches, but the top platform here also puts one perilously closer to offstage. I do like the idea behind the current layout, but think it could use the extra attention a stage designed around it could provide; supplemental elements to hold it together. This layout is still fairly unique, though, and asymmetric. Asymmetry is very important in a stage, to minimize redundancy and make the most of the space provided, exploring a new facet of the game in each locale.
Which is why the side leaf is great. What's it for? I dunno, that's the point. It's way over there, kinda seeming too far for teching or walljumping. But it's not really detrimental, either, and it leaves () room for creativity. The lack of an obvious use just makes it all the more hype when it does come into play.

Pretty neat idea as usual, but removing leaves would defeat the purpose of the stage: tadpoles constantly hitting them to create the music.

 

[Cubelarooso]

_Chrome
The offstage leaf isn't a platform, just an isolated wall/ceiling.

GFooChombey
I considered of that, but couldn't really come up with a good solution. Oops.

 

[himemiya]

O boy, another janky stage idea Cubelarooso has in full view. :/

 

[Sandfall]

If Hanenbow has a problem, it's that it's too concentrated on the leaves. It's hard to explore the effects that the individual leaves have on the basic game when together they change gameplay so much; it makes it feel more like a bunch of leaves used as a stage, rather than a stage that makes use of leaves to add some things new. And it makes counterplay difficult when there's nowhere one can go to get away from them. They're everywhere, causing hitlag, eating projectiles, and drastically altering edgeplay. Hence, I feel a sparser placement could be an improvement.

The leaves actually don't cause any noticeable hit lag, which is part of why the stage is so crazy in Turbo mode. As for the projectiles, I think standardtoaster said that it was possible to get projectiles to ignore them. If we ever figure out how to do that, it will more than likely be implemented.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Hey! Just caught up to this thread after a couple months' vacation. As for a possible Green Greens alt, I personally Really Love the version they have in 20XX. Like in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyuxePrT3xo

I really like it. Another small stage with a unique layout, super cool aesthetics, and overall I feel like it would just enhance the experience of most players in the game. The platform layout adds dimensions to the neutral game (i.e. ways to steal back center stage and out-duke your opponent) while not giving too many options to recovering opponents. On the flip side, recoveries are aided by the option of wall-riding and wall jumps, which I find cool. Also, it would be basically the only small stage to not have walls that extend all the way down the screen (like GHZ, WL, YS; even FoD). It would have a low ceiling and wider blast zones, meaning it'd be different than small stages like GHZ and FoD in that regard as well.

Of course, it'd be nice to not have Whispy be a sad old stump in the background. I find him cute .

Of course, I'm also not sure if doing something like this is allowed but a stage layout like this seems super special awesome to me.

 

[Nefnoj]

Hey! Just caught up to this thread after a couple months' vacation. As for a possible Green Greens alt, I personally Really Love the version they have in 20XX. Like in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyuxePrT3xo

I really like it. Another small stage with a unique layout, super cool aesthetics, and overall I feel like it would just enhance the experience of most players in the game. The platform layout adds dimensions to the neutral game (i.e. ways to steal back center stage and out-duke your opponent) while not giving too many options to recovering opponents. On the flip side, recoveries are aided by the option of wall-riding and wall jumps, which I find cool. Also, it would be basically the only small stage to not have walls that extend all the way down the screen (like GHZ, WL, YS; even FoD). It would have a low ceiling and wider blast zones, meaning it'd be different than small stages like GHZ and FoD in that regard as well.

Of course, it'd be nice to not have Whispy be a sad old stump in the background. I find him cute .

Of course, I'm also not sure if doing something like this is allowed but a stage layout like this seems super special awesome to me.

It is kind of cool, some 20XX stages would be pretty clever.... Though if Green Greens was an alt for Dreamland, then they wouldn't be able to use that one. And I think the current Norfair is pretty identical to what they have now, just without the li'l wall jumpy thingy and same blastzones... For now. I don't know if you saw this, the discussion's moved past Green Greens/Dreamland, but whatevs, yo.

 

[_Chrome]

It is kind of cool, some 20XX stages would be pretty clever.... Though if Green Greens was an alt for Dreamland, then they wouldn't be able to use that one. And I think the current Norfair is pretty identical to what they have now, just without the li'l wall jumpy thingy and same blastzones... For now. I don't know if you saw this, the discussion's moved past Green Greens/Dreamland, but whatevs, yo.

I feel like the 20XX Green Greens could be an alternative perhaps for Halberd. Also I think that it wouldn't be just like Norfair (a stage I love by the way) because of the smaller, different proportioned blast zones and the smaller stage overall. The more the better, right? (So long as the choices are each unique and enhance the game in their own way. Even though I don't like Hanenbow, I still think it should be the game because it adds variety and has a novel concept.)

 

[GFooChombey]

I feel like the 20XX Green Greens could be an alternative perhaps for Halberd. Also I think that it wouldn't be just like Norfair (a stage I love by the way) because of the smaller, different proportioned blast zones and the smaller stage overall. The more the better, right? (So long as the choices are each unique and enhance the game in their own way. Even though I don't like Hanenbow, I still think it should be the game because it adds variety and has a novel concept.)

But didn't a PMDT recently confirm that Halberd is going to be the alt to FoD in future builds? No sense adding yet another competitive stage that will cause chaos among TOs and stagelists everywhere.

 

[_Chrome]

But didn't a PMDT recently confirm that Halberd is going to be the alt to FoD in future builds? No sense adding yet another competitive stage that will cause chaos among TOs and stagelists everywhere.

Never heard of that one lol. If that's the case it can just be a third alt. I'm pretty sure that's a thing, right? Besides a larger variety of competitive stages is never a bad thing in my opinion. More viable options ultimately leads to more balanced gameplay or more choices for the TOs (or better yet a group of them) to make to create a balanced stage list for their region.

 

[GFooChombey]

Never heard of that one lol. If that's the case it can just be a third alt. I'm pretty sure that's a thing, right? Besides a larger variety of competitive stages is never a bad thing in my opinion. More viable options ultimately leads to more balanced gameplay or more choices for the TOs (or better yet a group of them) to make to create a balanced stage list for their region.

I think it was someone's AMA, but I can't find a source. It makes perfect sense to combine them anyways since they are two Kirby stages that currently sit with no alts. This could free up space for new stages such as one for ROB or any future characters that have no home. Three alts is something I think they should avoid. That third slot is for original 64 stage skins and should only reflect cosmetic changes as such.

Too many stages can be a bad thing though. I vaguely remember people getting all up in arms around and after 3.0 because they couldn't decide on the best stage list. Rotating stage lists are great and dandy, but even with that it can be overwhelming to learn that many stages. It can also cause too much time in between matches to think about your 20 bans. Lastly, stages eventually become redundant which is already a topic faced with Warioland = Yoshi's or Dreamland = Delfino.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Nefnoj I understand the discussion's moved past this but I'm really feeling this stage. Like _Chrome said, Norfair is completely different since its blast zones are huge, the main platform is huge, and the soft platforms are high relative to the main stage. Plus, not only do the soft platforms move, but they are a lot longer than those on 20XX Green Greens. Overall, the game plays out a lot differently on those two stages because of these varying attributes. For example, the platforms on Green Greens, since they are low to the ground, don't interrupt juggles so much and serve as a faster way to get around in neutral. Their small size also means that platform camping is harder and therefore forces more interaction.

Also, we have an abundance of large stages in this game and I'd like to see some smaller ones to help out. I love the addition of GHZ and WL because they have unique platform layouts and add a bunch to the game, but I feel like we need more. 20XX Green Greens would also offer a small stage whose main platform isn't so small that there's no room to run around; WL and GHZ are tiny, YS isn't large by any means and FoD is cramped. 20XX Green Greens accomplishes being small and relatively open yet also not functioning like a smaller FD like GHZ often does, since the middle platforms offer a way for players to deal with projectiles (ex. Falco lasers).

 

[Avro-Arrow]

Sorry to double post, but I had a fun idea and no one's posted in awhile. Why not make a more neutral version of Corneria or something and put the instrumental for the Chillin diss track as a song there? It'd be so dope guys! I don't even really care if the rework is a casual-ish stage so long as intelligent game play can still exist (like how Halberd is right now). Right now Corneria as it is kind of fills that role, but it's too easy to wall tech and camp under the wing and I feel like that takes away from the game play overall.

 

[JcFerggy]

I know the topic is still on Hanenbow, but I thought I would cross post my suggestion from reddit.

Spoiler

I made this photoshop mockup of what I imagine a blue lava version of Bowser's Castle would look like. The idea is based off of the level Broken Blue Bully Belt from Super Mario 3D World.

My main push for this is that having the alt stage be visually the same as the default stage seems weird, especially when we have the opportunity to spice it up. I look at stages like Castle Siege or Wario Land that have taken these steps.

 

[Sandfall]

Hey everyone!

Here's a long overdue switch for the stage discussion. Sorry about that...
This time, we'll be doing something a little different. This time, we'll be discussing custom content!

What is your favorite unofficial PM (or Brawl) stage mod, and why?

Feel free to post links and/or screenshots to the stage!

 

[himemiya]

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=36418
Minish night - the night time scene makes the stage look more beautiful (why isn't this stage the alt?). Its too bad the stage lags.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=208581
Raveware - I feel like this kind of theme is very well suited for the warioware stage type.

Spoiler

My favorite from textures I've made are mango falls and aurora skies.

 

[Avro-Arrow]

I really like the Minish Night skin - super cool overhaul of the existing DP!!

 

[GFooChombey]

Oh man I feel like this topic is opening a huge can of worms...

Vs Bowser (All in One)

Spoiler

This is one of the greatest custom stages I've ever played on. It cycles through all 3 of the stages where you fight Bowser in Mario 64 including stage hazards. The first is just a standard platform. In the second transformation, the stage tilts to each side either bringing you closer to the top blastzone or burning you in the lava below. The third transformation starts solid, but begins to fall apart into a smaller star shape and then it begins the loop over again. I didn't even know transforming stages were possible, but Mewtwo2000 really outdid himself. I was really hoping this would make it in as the alt to Bowser's Castle, but looks like that is out the window. If only it could be redone in HD..

Hornet Hole

Spoiler

This is the second greatest custom stage. It has a super unique layout with walls and ceilings to tech on, a variety of places to fight, and interestingly enough has working honey. Just like in DKC2, there is a version of the stage where your character gets stuck in the honey and has to jump out of it. It's definitely not the most well done hazard, but a really brave attempt and I appreciate it. Without honey, the top of the stage should be shorter so that players can't be hit up there and camp the rest of the match. I also think some animated hornets would be a nice addition.

PM Shadow Moses Island

Spoiler

First off, I don't think we need any more competitive stages, but I really don't like the original stage so that's where this comes in. The extremely tall blastzones and PS2-like platforms make this an interesting stage to play on. I especially like the tiny slant that's big enough to be noticeable, but small enough to keep our spaghetti on the plate. It's aesthetically pleasing without seeming over the top and even found a way to keep the Metal Gear in the back. Some of the background textures could be touched up though.

Prime Cup Hall

Spoiler

I used this stage when I was big into making custom builds back in the 3.0 days. Specifically the version with two platforms and pits carved into the floor on the sides. I feel like this stage used to seem huge, but looking at the pictures, it might match PS2 and it was just my imagination. But it really seemed to work well for 4 person free-for-alls. And the nostalgic design is always a plus and at the time matched all of the N64 stages. Seriously though anything by Mewtwo2000 is a winner

Venus Lighthouse

Spoiler

Let's face it that everybody knows this stage. @Llama Juice wasn't even PMDT yet, but he blew us all away. Aesthetically pleasing, very fun and unique stage design with the side platforms and raised center, great idea having the tower hazard, and great to have a stage from an under represented Nintendo game. If I could offer a criticism, I would say the bottom parts of the tower which is almost centered in the picture above is a bit weird to look at and find where the wall actually starts, but that's not a deal breaker. I eagerly await the day he convinces the team to add this stage.

Brawl Minus 75m (kinda)

Spoiler

Pictured is Brawl Minus' 75m. It has a platform elevator on the left which causes really fun shenanigans both when recovering/edge guarding and even sometimes when used in neutral. I used a version called 1773m (PM version) where the platform on the right was closer towards the stage and I preferred (The creator has since updated this stage and removed the older one I used, but here is the link). I've also seen some custom mock ups of this where the center platform was actually based on Sm4sh's omega form with the elevators on each side. Many possibilities for fun stages here, though I'm not sure it's worth bringing back the god awful vanilla stage..

Gloam Valley

Spoiler

An especially cool stage when it's placed over flatzone to get the 2D character effect. But I should mentioned that I played a custom version with no wall on the right side and the bits on the left were all pulled in closer.

Deku Palace

Spoiler

This is just a fun casual stage that really takes advantage of water. It adds the angle of forcing your opponent into the water and giving you many opportunities from the lily pad platforms. It's also nice to get some Majora's Mask love since before the 3ds remake that game was under represented.

Cool Cool Mountain

Spoiler

This is an interesting stage for me. It's very casual and janky. Super tall ceilings and super close blastzones. In fact, the edge of the stage on the right practically kisses it. On the left side, there is a floating platform that you really have to work to get to and gives you quite the high ground and it's also pretty close to the blastzone. I love the concept of having a pit between two parts of the stage, though I wish the floating platform had something to prevent you from camping there the entire match.

Corneria CE (no sauce)

Spoiler

Sorry that I have no source on this stage. I found it in another build a long time ago and never found a direct link to it. I know I said we don't need any more competitive stages, but I love the platform layout of this stage and being able to come up through the base of the stage. We need more of that.

Outdated and honorable mentions:

Spoiler

Well the stage is gone, but Melee Peach's Castle looked much better with a nicer art style.

This stage is also gone, but I always wanted a new traveling stage. Could have used some more interesting landing locations and platform layouts while moving.

Lastly, Super Smash Land's stages have all been ported to Brawl/PM if you didn't know. Many of them are good mentions, though they all feel a bit small. I can't find a source, but years ago someone said they were looking into making a transforming version of the stage, but it never saw the light of day. This could be especially cool if the default stage was made up of the default stages from the demake, and the alt was made up of unlockable stages. Music would be a pain in the ass though.