behemoth
Smash Journeyman
You must not be a HardQore Sonic fan then!!
...just kidding.
But seriously, I don't wanna have to sell my soul to
-
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OFFICIAL Sonic thread. (Keep it Brawl related, or suffer Xsy's/Xii's wrath!)
- Thread starter kaid
- Start date
- Status
...just kidding.
But seriously, I don't wanna have to sell my soul to
SonicMario
Smash Master
MR.WIGZ
Smash Ace
since "eggman'' was introduced sonic's career plummeted
@rdk
heres another 15 posts
bomberman sucks donkey ****
Sinn
Smash Lord
I shall read over this thread made of win as you say. Specifically to look for a proposed move list, since that what I've been most curious about.
Everyone here so far is MY friend. Aside from LightLink. I think he purposely tries to make enemies...
And I could probably find it in me to boycott SEGA stuff to get Sonic in Brawl...sign me up!
Everyone here so far is MY friend. Aside from LightLink. I think he purposely tries to make enemies...
And I could probably find it in me to boycott SEGA stuff to get Sonic in Brawl...sign me up!
MR.WIGZ
Smash Ace
i'll boycott even if he's in
SiD
Smash Master
Any on you ever played Sonic Robo Blast 2? It's a fan made Sonic game, it's pretty good. Search SRB2 on google and you'll find it.
Sinn
Smash Lord
Haven't heard of it, but I shall look for it right now~
SonicMario
Smash Master
Oh boy another IcyDrifter claim to the roster has come. What does this guy take us for?
MR.WIGZ
Smash Ace
who are you talking bout?
MR.WIGZ
Smash Ace
o nevermind what thread is this on
SonicMario
Smash Master
YES! IcyD HAS BEEN BANNED!!! This calls for another party!
Sonic 4 Brawl, IcyDrifter for the lol at him center.
Sonic 4 Brawl, IcyDrifter for the lol at him center.
Pit 42
Smash Lord
He made the most hilarious thread a while ago about how he has his 'friend' from Nintendo on the phone and we can ask him any questions at all about Brawl. He at first said all the Melee characters were returning, and when everyone flamed him he said something like "OK! Mewtwo, Doc, and Pichu aren't returning!"
I was laughing so hard.
Oh, and Sonic 4 Brawl, just in case a mod comes to this thread.
ArticulateT
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2007
- Messages
- 422
Ah well, he's gone, and if he gets back, then we'll be ready
so, for this weeks update, which character or boss do you think will be revealed?
Sonic 4 Brawl, Eggman 4 Boss
so, for this weeks update, which character or boss do you think will be revealed?
Sonic 4 Brawl, Eggman 4 Boss
awww....even me? i "less than three" you already
yes, i played it alot last year. a very creative idea. the 3D Doom engine is a lil choppy but it's bearable
Ok fellas...i fell asleep on the keyboard last night as I was typing up why i hate Reggie Fils-Aime. here are the reasons:
1. he said this stupidass line..."My name is Reggie. I'm about kickin' ***. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games."
2. for someone who's the corporate head officer of Nintendo, he really didn't sound like he knew what he was talking about this past E3
3. he couldn't talk his way out of a wet paperbag.
here's a quote:
lets break it apart a bitReggie Fils-Dip**** said:
yes...i GUESS you should mention it. i mean it's not like it's the most anticipated multiplayer game for the Wii or anything...Reggie Fils-Dip**** said:
yes because out of all the updates prior to E3, GigaBowser was by far the most exciting...Reggie Fils-Dip**** said:
i'll stop him right there....just using the word "stoked" makes him sound like a total ignoramusReggie Fils-Dip**** said:
4. he has a daughter that goes to Duke University and i hate Duke
Sonic 4 Brawl
behemoth
Smash Journeyman
Again, he's part of the reason why we have mature games on the Wii, and Gamecube, and why Nintendo is slowly losing their reputation as only making kiddy games.
Wait...
....he actually said stoked? And used the kicking *** and taking names line?
Then he rhymed names with games?
Okay, **** this guy! Everybody outta the pool, Reggie ruined it for all of us.
Wait...
....he actually said stoked? And used the kicking *** and taking names line?
Then he rhymed names with games?
Okay, **** this guy! Everybody outta the pool, Reggie ruined it for all of us
.Kabyk-Greenmyst
Smash Lord
The GigaBowser comment is for the casual kiddies, you should know that.
And it could've been worse, I mean, yes it's the most anticipated multiplayer game for Wii, but it's not what the theme or concept of Nintendo's presentation at E3, as far as I can gather. Although I think it should've been, who the f*ck cares if your Wii can weigh you? Not me, that's for sure.
And it could've been worse, I mean, yes it's the most anticipated multiplayer game for Wii, but it's not what the theme or concept of Nintendo's presentation at E3, as far as I can gather. Although I think it should've been, who the f*ck cares if your Wii can weigh you? Not me, that's for sure.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
Yea... only someone like me should ever be able to say "stoked" in a serious conversation and get a positive and respectable response in return.
(If you knew me, you'd understand)
WoodyWiggins
Smash Journeyman
NEITHER!!1!! Am I the only one that thinks Sonic in Brawl is a BAD idea!?! Nintendo already has a crossover over with Sega, and it's uber lame cause it takes place at the olympics. Sonic Team wins hands down!!! No one's faster than Sonic, No one is stronger than Knuckles and No one jumps higher than Tails. The competition is pointless! Ever Since Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic has been goin' DOWN ever since. With Sega ( and Nintendo ) crossing over Sonic with Mario, Sonic Fans will end up seeing Mario themed Sonic games. When that happens, I will never play another Sonic game again. Ever. Sonic in Brawl, bad idea.
X-x-Dyce-x-X
Smash Master
^^^^
Wario and/or Bowser should just as strong, if not stronger than, Knuckles.
Tails may fly high but Yoshi might be able to catch him. It all depends on who tires out first.
Also, don't forget that long jump is an event. Peach definitely has him there.
And as for Sonic... well... I guess Sonic really may be the fastest ever.
Wario and/or Bowser should just as strong, if not stronger than, Knuckles.
Tails may fly high but Yoshi might be able to catch him. It all depends on who tires out first.
Also, don't forget that long jump is an event. Peach definitely has him there.
And as for Sonic... well... I guess Sonic really may be the fastest ever.
WoodyWiggins
Smash Journeyman
**** dude! Nice pic! Wario may be a match for Knuckles, but Bowser just too slow. Still, that game is just pointless.^^^^
Wario and/or Bowser should just as strong, if not stronger than, Knuckles.
Tails may fly high but Yoshi might be able to catch him. It all depends on who tires out first.
Also, don't forget that long jump is an event. Peach definitely has him there.
And as for Sonic... well... I guess Sonic really may be the fastest ever.
astrosfan11dcs
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 2
if i get anything less than 40 charthers including megaman sonic tails toad shadow and some kick *** pokemon im gonna be pissed ive waited 4 years for this game.
only 112 days left.
only 112 days left.
IllidR
Smash Champion
Prepare to be disappointed. And it's less than 112 days. For Americans at least.
SiD
Smash Master
Therefore, I don't think from what you've provided thus far, that there is any reason to hate Reggie. He is a business man, not a gamer. Sure he was dry at E3 this year, but it happens. The end.
MR.WIGZ
Smash Ace
MR.WIGZ
Smash Ace
I know i just want to get my hopes too high, so when the game comes out i'll be more excited when there over 35
ylink_underestimted
Smash Ace
50 would be the best...
all this talk of Reggie, well i could care less of the guy. he says something, i hardly listen, and hes done XD
Sonic 4 Brawl
all this talk of Reggie, well i could care less of the guy. he says something, i hardly listen, and hes done XD
Sonic 4 Brawl
Ridley FTB!!!
Smash Lord
omg look this is not an issue from the looks of things we are getting loads of new characters yes probalby about 50(oh god im doing it now
)
this is easy...EASY.sakurai doesnt seem to care much about original movesets. as you see on most confirmed at they have there own unique moveset each.bosses which i see being loads with pp being boss number one(of many) he has his own moveset.the adventure characters all have there own moves...(eg the peopel with buckets over there heads)then youve got pokemon THEN stage hazards.
the animation for each character doesnt even seem a problem with having character such as ivysaur and charizard(squirtle being easy with his two legs..)ivysaur is 'sorta hard; because of his 4 legs,plant and vines..then you got charizard with wings,tail,neck and the basic movements..
as all i have stated out aniamtions doesnt seem to much of a problem so we may expect more than 50 characters
sorry for this message i dont know what came over me but still its a point needed to be stated
)this is easy...EASY.sakurai doesnt seem to care much about original movesets. as you see on most confirmed at they have there own unique moveset each.bosses which i see being loads with pp being boss number one(of many) he has his own moveset.the adventure characters all have there own moves...(eg the peopel with buckets over there heads)then youve got pokemon THEN stage hazards.
the animation for each character doesnt even seem a problem with having character such as ivysaur and charizard(squirtle being easy with his two legs..)ivysaur is 'sorta hard; because of his 4 legs,plant and vines..then you got charizard with wings,tail,neck and the basic movements..
as all i have stated out aniamtions doesnt seem to much of a problem so we may expect more than 50 characters
sorry for this message i dont know what came over me but still its a point needed to be stated
MR.WIGZ
Smash Ace
reggie is the man, he makes 6 year olds look smart he should be on kids say the darndest things
btw this is the best box art ive seen so far http://www.acegamez.co.uk/packshots_wii/WII_Preview_Super_Smash_Bros_Brawl.jpg
sonic for melee
btw this is the best box art ive seen so far http://www.acegamez.co.uk/packshots_wii/WII_Preview_Super_Smash_Bros_Brawl.jpg
sonic for melee
A short history, a long post
It's a long one, but possibly worth the read...
First off I'm a bit of a Sonic fanboy. Owned a Master System on which I only played Sonic games as a young kid and progressed onto the MegaDrive (Genesis for some of your weird people out there) for which it must be over half my games consisted of Sonic games. Each completed many times and thoroughly of course. Never regretted not having a NES or SNES because while people can say they have great fond memories of the first Metroid games or the first Mario games, I have something which they can't say they have - I've experienced a truly groundbreaking Sonic game. Yes the games still hold up to this day incredibly well and are a blast to play, but to be able to experience Sonic at his prime is something that you'll never get again. Because let's face it, while Mario and Samus continue to outperform themselves at every hurdle (Prime Series, Mario 64, Sunshine-ish and Galaxy) the glory days of Sonic seem to be long gone. I'm truly grateful to have those loving memories of Sonic imprinted forever onto me and they - to a certain extent - help soothe the woes of what Sonic has become, if only a little.
On the other hand, I don't consider myself a Sonic fanboy under my own definition. A Sonic fanboy is also someone that loves Sonic so much or is idiotic enough to actually buy and possibly enjoy the recent Sonic games that consistantly **** the franchise that the old-school fans know and love. I'm talking about enjoying Sonic Heroes (I'll forgive myself or buying that because it really was the first unforgivable Sonic game), Shadow the Hedgehog (for crying out loud, it doesn't even have Sonic in it people! -_-) and Sonic '06. You could argue that Shadow the Hedgehog would make you more of a Shadow fanboy than a Sonic one, but these days it seems that both go hand in hand anyway :/. Del is so much of a Sonic fanboy that he wants Sonic '06 for the PC, so much so to start a petition or at least promote it, but I know that he's a true fan at heart from what he writes, so he is forgiven ^^.
Before we understand where SEGA and Sonic Team went truly went wrong, we have to understand where they went right first of all. I know a lot of people reading this will be avid Sonic fans and will know some and maybe all of the answers to both of these questions and if anyone reading this hasn't played the 3 (4 if you're counting S3 and S&K separately) MegaDrive Sonic games go out and play them somehow now. Sonic MegaCollection for PC/GC, MegaDrive, anything you can get on WiiVC, I don't care, just do it now! You owe it to yourself to play the decent Sonic games.
As we all know, Sonic was SEGA's answer to Mario and while he obviously never became as popular due to the differing success of the respective consoles they were on, it was still a **** good answer. Sonic was made great by a creative world, simple and tight controls, music which captured the imagination and awesome design for both enemies, bosses and of course the levels. The graphics were bright and vibrant bringing these levels to life and the sense of speed helped make the gameplay addictive, fun and adrenaline pumping. I still stand to the fact they are some of the best games ever made. The story was there for those that wanted to find it - in the comics and in the games surprisingly enough although little of the latter - and for a time it actually made sense. You were Sonic, an animal, with your pal Tails, also an animal, saving your animal friends from the evil Doctor Robotnik who is turning them into robot animal-themed baddies after an experiment with the Chaos Emeralds going wrong warped and corrupted him. It may not be the greatest saga ever told, but it worked ****it and it left enough open to capture the imaginations of legions of Sonic fans everywhere without leaving massive loopholes in the story.
I'm going to make an example out of Sky Sanctuary. I thought personally that the level design was fantastic, the music worked, the art style brought it all together and it fitted in with the storyline at the time. Sure the level wasn't as fast paced as some of the others but it made up for that in it's superb level design and the crumbling walkways ensured at least some speed had to be used and it worked. It was also I believe the first time that humanoid robots were used instead of the general animal affair, but that was fitting because they were Robotnik robots. Having multiple battles with the miniboss Metal Sonic that harkened back to some of the older Sonic battles and then a final one which with Knuckles was made all the sweeter by Super Metal Sonic was an awesome decision. Whoever thought up of including the idea of Robotnik using Metal Sonic to try and slow their efforts to catch up to him should be patted on the back and given a cookie. You should also take note of the design of Metal Sonic and how he came a long way from being a Silver version of Sonic in S2 to being completely badass and original in S3&K.
The only problem I had with Sonic games before S&K was that you were unable to save your progress. That wasn't so much a fault of SEGA but generally of the system at the time. However with S&K introduced as being playable with S3 and including a save system as well as combining both games into the holy grail of videogaming, I think all was forgotten. It also *grumbles* provided more replay value. Like Sonic needed any more.
So in this short history of everything Sonic, so far we've covered pretty much the good yeah? The year was 1994 and this was to be the last year of the perfect Sonic games. We're going to start now at the beginning of the end - Sonic Adventure. For the record, I loved Sonic Adventure. While it was where the downward spiral began, it was still a very fun and enjoyable game. Sonic's levels traded some of his speed again for more platforming but it was still fast paced and the level designs while a bit worse weren't bad at all for a first attempt in 3D. Tails' levels were races and very enjoyable, nice bit of pace in those. Knuckles' treasure hunting brought variation to the table, as did E102-Gamma's sections. Big's fishing was erm...weird, but forgivable. Amy was a nightmare and making the way through her horribly designed levels with some weird green thing chasing me wasn't cool in the slightest. It still managed to do things right with the newly implemented Chao breeding, emblem system, an overworld to explore and find things in as well as tie up the story, unique storylines for the characters each with their own pretty awesome final boss.
It also managed to do things wrong. Horribly wrong. I'd never watched the Sonic cartoons so forgive me if I was late too the party or something, but loading up Sonic Adventure was a bit of a shock after getting over the "oo" and "aah"ness of the 3D graphics to realise that Sonic was in a city. With humans. In my eyes there's only room for 1 human in the Sonic universe and that egg-shaped space is filled amply by one Dr. Robotnik. So for no god**** reason whatsoever, they'd decided that the move to 3D meant getting rid of the unrealistic but imaginative and wonderful Mobius as we knew it and instead dumping Sonic in this **** city with a bunch of worthless humans milling around, driving their cars around the city in a loop. Endlessly. To this day I don't see the point to adding humans and "updating" the world to a more modern scene, but those *******es at Sonic Team obviously had their reasons. A poison cookie to whoever suggested that this time, or just a shovel to the back of the head. I realise that there were stuff like a movie inbetween S3&K and this game which introduced concepts like humans, but I choose to ignore things like that because I didn't know of their existance until recently and the fact that anything past S3&K in terms of "Sonic story" I choose, as a loyal Sonic fan, to ignore for fear of my love of Sonic diminishing should I acknowledge them.
So yeah, humans, GTFO out of my Sonic games, thanks. Next point: bugs. This was the beginning of Sonic bugs and glitches and there's nothing more irritating than zooming through a level to get stopped completely on a ****ing wall. WHY!? Don't those morons actually test their games!? Judging by the complaints of bugs in Sonic '06 as well as my experiences with SA2 and SH...no, I doubt it. If they choose to take one of the greatest 2D franchises and make it 3D they should at least take the care to make the experience as smooth as possible but they most likely rushed the project to have some decent other than ChuChuRocket (another awesome Sonic Team game and a franchise which they've decided to completely ignore) to play on the DC launch. Freakin' idiots if you ask me, if anything history tells us it's that rushing things out of the door is never a good thing and SA could've used 2-3 months more polish and bug fixing. Still it was a great game, so I can't complain too much.
Next thing up, camera angles. Camera of course was never a problem for 2D and many many platformers for years to come (and still now, especially Sonic games) struggle to get this bit right. Super Mario 64 however didn't have much of a camera issue, so why the hell didn't Sonic Team make the effort of making the camera as good as possible to not detract from the experience? Rushing it out of the door for easy money again, most likely. This really screwed up the gameplay at times though, and really stopped the game from reaching true Sonic standards.
World-wide use and OFFICIAL replacement or it may as well be god****it of the name Robotnik for the Japanese favourite "Eggman". It's just a STUPID nickname that describes his shape, yay, due to the storyline incident rather than having a serious name which ties into his name before the accident. Clearly SA was going for "Robotnik as a joke villain" over him being a serious one which is evident through both the animations while he speaks and his name. Robotnik used to be a good enemy, managing to capture an entire planet's worth of fuzzy creatures, building mechanical robots and riding around in his Egg-o-matic (which has been all but doomed to obscurity now after being the central theme to almost all his bossfights in the golden times). He actually did evil things and failed to complete his plans like all good villains do (I say this jokingly). Now he's just a big joke with a joke name. I mean if he's a serious villain with a jokey and crap nickname of Eggman why the hell does he refer to himself as Eggman too? -_- I can understand the Japanese with slightly unorthadox conventions naming him Eggman but why impose that name onto Western audiences too? So much to the point where the Wikipedia article is actually Doctor Eggman, it's just that screwed up. Bring back Robotnik. IT's ROBOTNIK, YA HEAR!?
Edit: I had to forget something ^^. SA was also the first time I'd say "cheap deaths" were introduced. Remember back in 2D Sonic days where the level designs were such that you could run through an entire level and the only worry you'd encounter would be spikes and enemies? Yes, SA introduced like most 3D platformers do the dreaded "WHERE HAS THE GROUND GONE!?" death which is only to be expected. However, I would love a very cleverly thought out 3D design which didn't need to rely on these pitfall deaths and it seems in the transition from 2D to 3D Sonic lost some speed not because of the game engine but because at any point you could veer off into the unknown and die. It's not so much their fault and they did in many cases have large portions of the levels without pitfalls, but in the end it's just another feature of Sonic that I loved that was lost in the transition to 3D. Take Mario 64 for example, although understandable due to a health system, a lot of the time a miss-timed or misplaced jump would not lead to an inevitable death. Guess I'm just bitter.
I think all that needs to be said about fishing and Amy are "WWWWWWWHYYYYY!?". Big the Cat, while lovable in a trippy way, really wasn't the best character addition. The fact that they brought back Amy who is fills the stereotype role of "Sonic's stalker that won't take no for an answer and stalks Sonic all over the world relentlessly begging him to marry him but manages to screw up enough in situations to become a liability". She's just a pink rip-off of Sonic and an extremely annoying character. Hell at pretty much no point does Sonic ever show an interest in her and yet she's still referred to as many his girlfriend. What would be wrong with having a female character introduced to Sonic that wasn't a stalker and was actually a likeable character and a decent rolemodel to any young female Sonic fans. There's nothing wrong with being determined and having perservierance if you don't then take it to creepy levels of being a stalker, so why the hell make it that way!? Her whole character is just another massive *facepalm* to the Sonic franchise. And she's stereotypically pink, incase you'd get confused on if she's female. Way to go, Sonic Team.
Oh and the voice-actors. They should all be fired except a couple (I can stand Sonic most of the time and Knuckles, maybe Robotnik) because they're god**** terrible. Tails didn't need to sound like he was 6 and Amy's voice grates on the nerves. I think Big's voice actor may have walked into a ****ing lamppost on the way to the studio. The dialogue in the game was terrible too. Some parts were alright, but the reasons why Sonic games in the past were so effective with their story is because it didn't have the incredibly cheesy dialogue, it just told a story in pictures. Seriously most of the posters here could pull better dialogue out of their ***.
But hey at least the robots are vaguely animal-like with little animals still inside them! The only enemy is still Robotnik...well kinda, cause we all know he gets shoved out of the spot light eventually. The camera is a little buggy and some new (ish in the case of Amy, think she only made a brief appearance in Sonic CD) characters are bit crap but there's going to be another SA, surely that will fix everything? Wrong, wrong, WRONG! This truly was the beginning of the end for Sonic, as everything from now on just gets worse as SA2 takes a huge crap on everything that made SA fun and fixes none of it's problems.
So first off they take out the animals in the robots - the first time since Sonic began I believe - and replace it with different coloured glowsticks. Yay. This might have been because of some PETA movement and if so, GTFO. More likely though it was another ******** move by Sonic Team which in that case, GTFO. Stop ruining Sonic please. Those animal critters were half the motivation for Sonic to stop Robotnik and the reason why getting to the end of every level was so rewarding.
They then replaced the capsule at the end with a giant Goal ring. This PROVES beyond any doubt that SA2 was aimed at ******* because it's like saying that a huge ring isn't enough indication of where the end of the level is so they need to write GOAL in it. Why a giant ring anyway? What was the ****ing point!? If it ain't broken for the love of god it doesn't need fixing!
Then they brought in the army. And with that, Sonic fans over the world should've been facepalming because this is where humans (not including Robotnik) become integral within Sonic storylines. I think the robots were the army's in SA2, correct me if I'm wrong, and they were certainly a lot more GENERIC-ROBOT-DESIGN-NUMBER-52 than Robotnik's. This just hows that Robotnik has lost his main importance in the storylines since the enemy you're fighting throughout the game most of the time isn't actually him. Seriously humans in Sonic games can go **** themselves, I don't want them there.
Choabreeding took one for the team. Now instead of evolving your Chaos through giving them different and awesome animal features, you can go collect glowsticks instead! **** YEAH! WOO!...or not. Then they had to add in some kind of rubbish "Light" and "Dark" Chao stuff in and basically just take away from everything that made Chao breeding so cute and fun in the first place. Thank you, Sonic Team. None of the issues of the first one were addressed, except maybe getting rid of Amy and Big the Cat. The camera still failed at every crucial moment, there were still bugs to be had, the voice acting was still as terrible as ever. They had fixed basically nothing.
Instead they took out some of the better and more unique aspects such as the overworld aspect that I really liked and 6 different play modes (5 if you count Amy more like Sonic) and individual storyline and ****ed that all up with 1 combined storyline and only 3 playmodes. They still had 6 characters, but each light and dark counterpart played almost exactly the same and did almost exactly the same thing, albeit on different levels. So not only did this severely take away from the variation in the game but I also believe the level count was reduced and definitely the number of bosses. Another heavy metal object to the face of whoever thought it'd be a good idea.
This brings me nicely onto my point of the 2 new characters - Shadow and Rouge. First off lets start with everything wrong wtih Rouge. She's some weird kind of humanoid bat character with boobs, makeup and seems to be very flirtatious. So filling the role of "slag" nicely there, thanks again Sonic Team. What I thought was missing from SA2's brilliant storyline was a "sexy" bat character for sex appeal who acts like a ***** and that's pretty much the depth of her character. Also, Knuckles really needed a rival that does exactly what he does rather than the more subtle rivalry between Sonic and him. This is why Sonic Team seems to have recently failed at storytelling from the move to 3D, they basically just take what was good about the story and find some way to make it bad. I would say they outdid themselves with Shadow though. He's the epitome of lame character.
Let's go through the list:
Ripoff of main character in dark colour - Check
Evil rival - Check
"Badass" attitude - Check
Associated with guns and "cool" vehicles - Nope, wait *Looks at Shadow the Hedgehog*...Check
He's nothing more than a terrible evil clone of Sonic that was made purely to win over the 13 year old demographic. Someone at Sonic Team (I bet it's the same **** guy as well, at least I hope they aren't all as ******** as this would make them) said to themselves that Sonic isn't cool anymore, Knuckles is the cool hero now and Robotnik isn't cool enough as a villain. To solve this, they'll make a cool villain version of Sonic, to make the franchise seem cool again.
*Facepalm*
But seriously, how anyone can like this character is beyond me. Sonic, Tails and Knuckles were all cool in their own way, Tails much less so since voice-acting and the terrible decision to make him a whiny little kid. Robotnik WAS a great villain. Anything else in Sonic character-wise is pretty much a joke in my opinion. I mean Shadow was completely unncessary to the storyline and if a lot of the Sonic fans (especially the younger ones) hadn't fallen into "Omgz I love Shadow" trap then the terrible game that was Shadow the Hedgehog never would have existed and maybe, just maybe, they would've stopped introducing a new **** character with every single game. :x
They also made it so that any fun of completing a level objective was taken out. I'm of course talking about the ranking system that the game employed. What a pile of garbage. It's just another example of something like the emblem system from SA that worked PERFECTLY being alterted UNNECESSARILY into something that is just ****. The whole point of the emblem system was that in order to get something you'd have to do a challenge and it didn't matter if you did this challenge in half the time or over twice the rings you needed, you just did it and yay your shiny emblem as your reward. With SA2 the challenge wasn't in doing what it wanted you to, it was in doing it FASTER, with MORE RINGS and MORE ENEMIES KILLED. This meant that you could do what it asked you to and then end up with an E rank not only rubbing it in your face that you did **** but meaning if you want to unlock everything you have to get an A rank on every mission on every level. Bit of a cheap and fun-sucking way to extend playability time. Couldn't really care though since the level design just wasn't inventive or fun there was no incentive for me to play the game more than past it's completion anyway.
Sonic Heroes did 4 things right. It brought back Chaotix sans Mighty (that's a bad thing for all those people that never played Knuckles Chaotix), it brought back Metal Sonic and brought back special stages and individual storylines (if only in the form of teams). However it also did many, many things wrong. Let's start with how it butchered even the good things by saying about the whole bad design of Metal Sonic (I know it was butchered from the movie onwards but seriously, where was S3&K MS?!), the individual storylines having the same repetitive gameplay and mostly the same levels from what I can remember or at least a very strong overlap, the special stages were absolute garbage and WHAT THE HELL DID THEY DO TO CHARMY BEE!? I will never be able to like Charmy ever again. Ever. WHY ARE THEY KILLING MY CHILDHOOD ONE GAME AT A TIME? ><.
Right that's the good out of the way with said atrocities in tow, let's get onto why Sonic Heroes really was a pile of crap. The gameplay was the most fundamentally broken part of it since they did everything wrong. First off most of the time it was slow or when they added the really fast parts in with lots of booster pads you basically lost most control of your character (trying to steer into rings was crap) and the fast parts felt really tacked on. They also added enemies which took lots of hits to actually kill and some crappy upgrading system. This isn't Sonic RPG (which will rock), this is meant to be fast gamespeed 1-hit killable enemies that you don't HAVE to kill. The whole premise behind the game was a joke.
Need I say much more about this game? Terrible audio, terrible voice-acting, terrible level design, terrible game design, terrible story, terrible dialogue, terrible camera. I think that covers about everything. At least they didn't add in any new characters or have a bunch of humans running around everywhere I guess. Wow, that really didn't offset any of the ****tiness did it? Maybe a little.
SatSR was more of a step side-ways for the franchise. I played 15 minutes of it, concluded it had horrificly bad controls and wasn't all that fun and never played it again. I'm sure there were some redeeming qualities to it such as the "mainly" faultless camera and the speed coming back a bit but the speed and controls had to actually be upgraded to be any good and that's a terrible decision from Sonic Team. Another, terrible decision I should say. On top of that there were such things like Sonic and the female protagonist having a bit of thing going on and some fairly tacked on Wiimote controls. A lot of pointless missions to try and mask only having 6 or 7 levels too. The soundtrack is so bad you'll want to take a baseball bat to your TV since it consists entirely of cheese J-pop rock. It's seriously, seriously bad. What happened to the decent soundtracks, the ones which gave life and character to the stages? I've had enough with ****ing bad Sonic games where the preferable sound option is MUTE.
From never having touched Sonic '06, all I can say is what I've read about it. Terrible camera, gameplay + controls and glitches. Also human woman kissing Sonic. Another clever marketing scheme from Sonic Team there; What's Sonic missing...hmm...girl on hedgehog action? Successfully one-upped SatSR where the girl + Sonic romance was only implied. Seriously what the **** is the point in having Sonic having a romance plot that's to do with a **** human!? Surely if anything it should've been with Amy to justify her pointless existance. I might be taking this whole idea of romance a bit far, it wasn't exactly specifically said to be romantic I don't think, but SHE KISSED HIM! >< WTF!
Pretty much everything that can be said about the later Sonic games can be found in some, usually less extreme, form in the previous Sonic games up to SA. It was just a slippery slope for SEGA and Sonic Team and the Sonic franchise in general which they've just fallen a long, long way down. But Sonic will never die because there are Sonic fanboys to suck the teat of the cashcow again and again no matter how sour the milk has gone. SEGA will continue to ***** out Sonic with cheaply made games rushed out the door and continue to make money on it, the only money the seem to make these days isn't it? If any employee from Sonic Team ever cares to read this or ever has a good long sit down to think of how to make Sonic good again, he only ever needs to think of what made Sonic great in the first place. It wasn't humans, it wasn't poorly made stereotyped ripoff characters, it wasn't voice-acting or even 3D. It was plain and simple fast action, sweet level designs full of character and great controls and gameplay in general. Would it be so hard just to go back to Sonic's roots? SEGA and Sonic Team really need to do something old with Sonic and leave something new to the hands of developers like Bioware.
/rant
It's a long one, but possibly worth the read...
First off I'm a bit of a Sonic fanboy. Owned a Master System on which I only played Sonic games as a young kid and progressed onto the MegaDrive (Genesis for some of your weird people out there) for which it must be over half my games consisted of Sonic games. Each completed many times and thoroughly of course. Never regretted not having a NES or SNES because while people can say they have great fond memories of the first Metroid games or the first Mario games, I have something which they can't say they have - I've experienced a truly groundbreaking Sonic game. Yes the games still hold up to this day incredibly well and are a blast to play, but to be able to experience Sonic at his prime is something that you'll never get again. Because let's face it, while Mario and Samus continue to outperform themselves at every hurdle (Prime Series, Mario 64, Sunshine-ish and Galaxy) the glory days of Sonic seem to be long gone. I'm truly grateful to have those loving memories of Sonic imprinted forever onto me and they - to a certain extent - help soothe the woes of what Sonic has become, if only a little.
On the other hand, I don't consider myself a Sonic fanboy under my own definition. A Sonic fanboy is also someone that loves Sonic so much or is idiotic enough to actually buy and possibly enjoy the recent Sonic games that consistantly **** the franchise that the old-school fans know and love. I'm talking about enjoying Sonic Heroes (I'll forgive myself or buying that because it really was the first unforgivable Sonic game), Shadow the Hedgehog (for crying out loud, it doesn't even have Sonic in it people! -_-) and Sonic '06. You could argue that Shadow the Hedgehog would make you more of a Shadow fanboy than a Sonic one, but these days it seems that both go hand in hand anyway :/. Del is so much of a Sonic fanboy that he wants Sonic '06 for the PC, so much so to start a petition or at least promote it, but I know that he's a true fan at heart from what he writes, so he is forgiven ^^.
Before we understand where SEGA and Sonic Team went truly went wrong, we have to understand where they went right first of all. I know a lot of people reading this will be avid Sonic fans and will know some and maybe all of the answers to both of these questions and if anyone reading this hasn't played the 3 (4 if you're counting S3 and S&K separately) MegaDrive Sonic games go out and play them somehow now. Sonic MegaCollection for PC/GC, MegaDrive, anything you can get on WiiVC, I don't care, just do it now! You owe it to yourself to play the decent Sonic games.
As we all know, Sonic was SEGA's answer to Mario and while he obviously never became as popular due to the differing success of the respective consoles they were on, it was still a **** good answer. Sonic was made great by a creative world, simple and tight controls, music which captured the imagination and awesome design for both enemies, bosses and of course the levels. The graphics were bright and vibrant bringing these levels to life and the sense of speed helped make the gameplay addictive, fun and adrenaline pumping. I still stand to the fact they are some of the best games ever made. The story was there for those that wanted to find it - in the comics and in the games surprisingly enough although little of the latter - and for a time it actually made sense. You were Sonic, an animal, with your pal Tails, also an animal, saving your animal friends from the evil Doctor Robotnik who is turning them into robot animal-themed baddies after an experiment with the Chaos Emeralds going wrong warped and corrupted him. It may not be the greatest saga ever told, but it worked ****it and it left enough open to capture the imaginations of legions of Sonic fans everywhere without leaving massive loopholes in the story.
I'm going to make an example out of Sky Sanctuary. I thought personally that the level design was fantastic, the music worked, the art style brought it all together and it fitted in with the storyline at the time. Sure the level wasn't as fast paced as some of the others but it made up for that in it's superb level design and the crumbling walkways ensured at least some speed had to be used and it worked. It was also I believe the first time that humanoid robots were used instead of the general animal affair, but that was fitting because they were Robotnik robots. Having multiple battles with the miniboss Metal Sonic that harkened back to some of the older Sonic battles and then a final one which with Knuckles was made all the sweeter by Super Metal Sonic was an awesome decision. Whoever thought up of including the idea of Robotnik using Metal Sonic to try and slow their efforts to catch up to him should be patted on the back and given a cookie. You should also take note of the design of Metal Sonic and how he came a long way from being a Silver version of Sonic in S2 to being completely badass and original in S3&K.
The only problem I had with Sonic games before S&K was that you were unable to save your progress. That wasn't so much a fault of SEGA but generally of the system at the time. However with S&K introduced as being playable with S3 and including a save system as well as combining both games into the holy grail of videogaming, I think all was forgotten. It also *grumbles* provided more replay value. Like Sonic needed any more.
So in this short history of everything Sonic, so far we've covered pretty much the good yeah? The year was 1994 and this was to be the last year of the perfect Sonic games. We're going to start now at the beginning of the end - Sonic Adventure. For the record, I loved Sonic Adventure. While it was where the downward spiral began, it was still a very fun and enjoyable game. Sonic's levels traded some of his speed again for more platforming but it was still fast paced and the level designs while a bit worse weren't bad at all for a first attempt in 3D. Tails' levels were races and very enjoyable, nice bit of pace in those. Knuckles' treasure hunting brought variation to the table, as did E102-Gamma's sections. Big's fishing was erm...weird, but forgivable. Amy was a nightmare and making the way through her horribly designed levels with some weird green thing chasing me wasn't cool in the slightest. It still managed to do things right with the newly implemented Chao breeding, emblem system, an overworld to explore and find things in as well as tie up the story, unique storylines for the characters each with their own pretty awesome final boss.
It also managed to do things wrong. Horribly wrong. I'd never watched the Sonic cartoons so forgive me if I was late too the party or something, but loading up Sonic Adventure was a bit of a shock after getting over the "oo" and "aah"ness of the 3D graphics to realise that Sonic was in a city. With humans. In my eyes there's only room for 1 human in the Sonic universe and that egg-shaped space is filled amply by one Dr. Robotnik. So for no god**** reason whatsoever, they'd decided that the move to 3D meant getting rid of the unrealistic but imaginative and wonderful Mobius as we knew it and instead dumping Sonic in this **** city with a bunch of worthless humans milling around, driving their cars around the city in a loop. Endlessly. To this day I don't see the point to adding humans and "updating" the world to a more modern scene, but those *******es at Sonic Team obviously had their reasons. A poison cookie to whoever suggested that this time, or just a shovel to the back of the head. I realise that there were stuff like a movie inbetween S3&K and this game which introduced concepts like humans, but I choose to ignore things like that because I didn't know of their existance until recently and the fact that anything past S3&K in terms of "Sonic story" I choose, as a loyal Sonic fan, to ignore for fear of my love of Sonic diminishing should I acknowledge them.
So yeah, humans, GTFO out of my Sonic games, thanks. Next point: bugs. This was the beginning of Sonic bugs and glitches and there's nothing more irritating than zooming through a level to get stopped completely on a ****ing wall. WHY!? Don't those morons actually test their games!? Judging by the complaints of bugs in Sonic '06 as well as my experiences with SA2 and SH...no, I doubt it. If they choose to take one of the greatest 2D franchises and make it 3D they should at least take the care to make the experience as smooth as possible but they most likely rushed the project to have some decent other than ChuChuRocket (another awesome Sonic Team game and a franchise which they've decided to completely ignore) to play on the DC launch. Freakin' idiots if you ask me, if anything history tells us it's that rushing things out of the door is never a good thing and SA could've used 2-3 months more polish and bug fixing. Still it was a great game, so I can't complain too much.
Next thing up, camera angles. Camera of course was never a problem for 2D and many many platformers for years to come (and still now, especially Sonic games) struggle to get this bit right. Super Mario 64 however didn't have much of a camera issue, so why the hell didn't Sonic Team make the effort of making the camera as good as possible to not detract from the experience? Rushing it out of the door for easy money again, most likely. This really screwed up the gameplay at times though, and really stopped the game from reaching true Sonic standards.
World-wide use and OFFICIAL replacement or it may as well be god****it of the name Robotnik for the Japanese favourite "Eggman". It's just a STUPID nickname that describes his shape, yay, due to the storyline incident rather than having a serious name which ties into his name before the accident. Clearly SA was going for "Robotnik as a joke villain" over him being a serious one which is evident through both the animations while he speaks and his name. Robotnik used to be a good enemy, managing to capture an entire planet's worth of fuzzy creatures, building mechanical robots and riding around in his Egg-o-matic (which has been all but doomed to obscurity now after being the central theme to almost all his bossfights in the golden times). He actually did evil things and failed to complete his plans like all good villains do (I say this jokingly
). Now he's just a big joke with a joke name. I mean if he's a serious villain with a jokey and crap nickname of Eggman why the hell does he refer to himself as Eggman too? -_- I can understand the Japanese with slightly unorthadox conventions naming him Eggman but why impose that name onto Western audiences too? So much to the point where the Wikipedia article is actually Doctor Eggman, it's just that screwed up. Bring back Robotnik. IT's ROBOTNIK, YA HEAR!?Edit: I had to forget something ^^. SA was also the first time I'd say "cheap deaths" were introduced. Remember back in 2D Sonic days where the level designs were such that you could run through an entire level and the only worry you'd encounter would be spikes and enemies? Yes, SA introduced like most 3D platformers do the dreaded "WHERE HAS THE GROUND GONE!?" death which is only to be expected. However, I would love a very cleverly thought out 3D design which didn't need to rely on these pitfall deaths and it seems in the transition from 2D to 3D Sonic lost some speed not because of the game engine but because at any point you could veer off into the unknown and die. It's not so much their fault and they did in many cases have large portions of the levels without pitfalls, but in the end it's just another feature of Sonic that I loved that was lost in the transition to 3D. Take Mario 64 for example, although understandable due to a health system, a lot of the time a miss-timed or misplaced jump would not lead to an inevitable death. Guess I'm just bitter.
I think all that needs to be said about fishing and Amy are "WWWWWWWHYYYYY!?". Big the Cat, while lovable in a trippy way, really wasn't the best character addition. The fact that they brought back Amy who is fills the stereotype role of "Sonic's stalker that won't take no for an answer and stalks Sonic all over the world relentlessly begging him to marry him but manages to screw up enough in situations to become a liability". She's just a pink rip-off of Sonic and an extremely annoying character. Hell at pretty much no point does Sonic ever show an interest in her and yet she's still referred to as many his girlfriend. What would be wrong with having a female character introduced to Sonic that wasn't a stalker and was actually a likeable character and a decent rolemodel to any young female Sonic fans. There's nothing wrong with being determined and having perservierance if you don't then take it to creepy levels of being a stalker, so why the hell make it that way!? Her whole character is just another massive *facepalm* to the Sonic franchise. And she's stereotypically pink, incase you'd get confused on if she's female. Way to go, Sonic Team.
Oh and the voice-actors. They should all be fired except a couple (I can stand Sonic most of the time and Knuckles, maybe Robotnik) because they're god**** terrible. Tails didn't need to sound like he was 6 and Amy's voice grates on the nerves. I think Big's voice actor may have walked into a ****ing lamppost on the way to the studio. The dialogue in the game was terrible too. Some parts were alright, but the reasons why Sonic games in the past were so effective with their story is because it didn't have the incredibly cheesy dialogue, it just told a story in pictures. Seriously most of the posters here could pull better dialogue out of their ***.
But hey at least the robots are vaguely animal-like with little animals still inside them! The only enemy is still Robotnik...well kinda, cause we all know he gets shoved out of the spot light eventually. The camera is a little buggy and some new (ish in the case of Amy, think she only made a brief appearance in Sonic CD) characters are bit crap but there's going to be another SA, surely that will fix everything? Wrong, wrong, WRONG! This truly was the beginning of the end for Sonic, as everything from now on just gets worse as SA2 takes a huge crap on everything that made SA fun and fixes none of it's problems.
So first off they take out the animals in the robots - the first time since Sonic began I believe - and replace it with different coloured glowsticks. Yay. This might have been because of some PETA movement and if so, GTFO. More likely though it was another ******** move by Sonic Team which in that case, GTFO. Stop ruining Sonic please. Those animal critters were half the motivation for Sonic to stop Robotnik and the reason why getting to the end of every level was so rewarding.
They then replaced the capsule at the end with a giant Goal ring. This PROVES beyond any doubt that SA2 was aimed at ******* because it's like saying that a huge ring isn't enough indication of where the end of the level is so they need to write GOAL in it. Why a giant ring anyway? What was the ****ing point!? If it ain't broken for the love of god it doesn't need fixing!
Then they brought in the army. And with that, Sonic fans over the world should've been facepalming because this is where humans (not including Robotnik) become integral within Sonic storylines. I think the robots were the army's in SA2, correct me if I'm wrong, and they were certainly a lot more GENERIC-ROBOT-DESIGN-NUMBER-52 than Robotnik's. This just hows that Robotnik has lost his main importance in the storylines since the enemy you're fighting throughout the game most of the time isn't actually him. Seriously humans in Sonic games can go **** themselves, I don't want them there.
Choabreeding took one for the team. Now instead of evolving your Chaos through giving them different and awesome animal features, you can go collect glowsticks instead! **** YEAH! WOO!...or not. Then they had to add in some kind of rubbish "Light" and "Dark" Chao stuff in and basically just take away from everything that made Chao breeding so cute and fun in the first place. Thank you, Sonic Team. None of the issues of the first one were addressed, except maybe getting rid of Amy and Big the Cat. The camera still failed at every crucial moment, there were still bugs to be had, the voice acting was still as terrible as ever. They had fixed basically nothing.
Instead they took out some of the better and more unique aspects such as the overworld aspect that I really liked and 6 different play modes (5 if you count Amy more like Sonic) and individual storyline and ****ed that all up with 1 combined storyline and only 3 playmodes. They still had 6 characters, but each light and dark counterpart played almost exactly the same and did almost exactly the same thing, albeit on different levels. So not only did this severely take away from the variation in the game but I also believe the level count was reduced and definitely the number of bosses. Another heavy metal object to the face of whoever thought it'd be a good idea.
This brings me nicely onto my point of the 2 new characters - Shadow and Rouge. First off lets start with everything wrong wtih Rouge. She's some weird kind of humanoid bat character with boobs, makeup and seems to be very flirtatious. So filling the role of "slag" nicely there, thanks again Sonic Team. What I thought was missing from SA2's brilliant storyline was a "sexy" bat character for sex appeal who acts like a ***** and that's pretty much the depth of her character. Also, Knuckles really needed a rival that does exactly what he does rather than the more subtle rivalry between Sonic and him. This is why Sonic Team seems to have recently failed at storytelling from the move to 3D, they basically just take what was good about the story and find some way to make it bad. I would say they outdid themselves with Shadow though. He's the epitome of lame character.
Let's go through the list:
Ripoff of main character in dark colour - Check
Evil rival - Check
"Badass" attitude - Check
Associated with guns and "cool" vehicles - Nope, wait *Looks at Shadow the Hedgehog*...Check
He's nothing more than a terrible evil clone of Sonic that was made purely to win over the 13 year old demographic. Someone at Sonic Team (I bet it's the same **** guy as well, at least I hope they aren't all as ******** as this would make them) said to themselves that Sonic isn't cool anymore, Knuckles is the cool hero now and Robotnik isn't cool enough as a villain. To solve this, they'll make a cool villain version of Sonic, to make the franchise seem cool again.
*Facepalm*
But seriously, how anyone can like this character is beyond me. Sonic, Tails and Knuckles were all cool in their own way, Tails much less so since voice-acting and the terrible decision to make him a whiny little kid. Robotnik WAS a great villain. Anything else in Sonic character-wise is pretty much a joke in my opinion. I mean Shadow was completely unncessary to the storyline and if a lot of the Sonic fans (especially the younger ones) hadn't fallen into "Omgz I love Shadow" trap then the terrible game that was Shadow the Hedgehog never would have existed and maybe, just maybe, they would've stopped introducing a new **** character with every single game. :x
They also made it so that any fun of completing a level objective was taken out. I'm of course talking about the ranking system that the game employed. What a pile of garbage. It's just another example of something like the emblem system from SA that worked PERFECTLY being alterted UNNECESSARILY into something that is just ****. The whole point of the emblem system was that in order to get something you'd have to do a challenge and it didn't matter if you did this challenge in half the time or over twice the rings you needed, you just did it and yay your shiny emblem as your reward. With SA2 the challenge wasn't in doing what it wanted you to, it was in doing it FASTER, with MORE RINGS and MORE ENEMIES KILLED. This meant that you could do what it asked you to and then end up with an E rank not only rubbing it in your face that you did **** but meaning if you want to unlock everything you have to get an A rank on every mission on every level. Bit of a cheap and fun-sucking way to extend playability time. Couldn't really care though since the level design just wasn't inventive or fun there was no incentive for me to play the game more than past it's completion anyway.
Sonic Heroes did 4 things right. It brought back Chaotix sans Mighty (that's a bad thing for all those people that never played Knuckles Chaotix), it brought back Metal Sonic and brought back special stages and individual storylines (if only in the form of teams). However it also did many, many things wrong. Let's start with how it butchered even the good things by saying about the whole bad design of Metal Sonic (I know it was butchered from the movie onwards but seriously, where was S3&K MS?!), the individual storylines having the same repetitive gameplay and mostly the same levels from what I can remember or at least a very strong overlap, the special stages were absolute garbage and WHAT THE HELL DID THEY DO TO CHARMY BEE!? I will never be able to like Charmy ever again. Ever. WHY ARE THEY KILLING MY CHILDHOOD ONE GAME AT A TIME? ><.
Right that's the good out of the way with said atrocities in tow, let's get onto why Sonic Heroes really was a pile of crap. The gameplay was the most fundamentally broken part of it since they did everything wrong. First off most of the time it was slow or when they added the really fast parts in with lots of booster pads you basically lost most control of your character (trying to steer into rings was crap) and the fast parts felt really tacked on. They also added enemies which took lots of hits to actually kill and some crappy upgrading system. This isn't Sonic RPG (which will rock), this is meant to be fast gamespeed 1-hit killable enemies that you don't HAVE to kill. The whole premise behind the game was a joke.
Need I say much more about this game? Terrible audio, terrible voice-acting, terrible level design, terrible game design, terrible story, terrible dialogue, terrible camera. I think that covers about everything. At least they didn't add in any new characters or have a bunch of humans running around everywhere I guess. Wow, that really didn't offset any of the ****tiness did it? Maybe a little.
SatSR was more of a step side-ways for the franchise. I played 15 minutes of it, concluded it had horrificly bad controls and wasn't all that fun and never played it again. I'm sure there were some redeeming qualities to it such as the "mainly" faultless camera and the speed coming back a bit but the speed and controls had to actually be upgraded to be any good and that's a terrible decision from Sonic Team. Another, terrible decision I should say. On top of that there were such things like Sonic and the female protagonist having a bit of thing going on and some fairly tacked on Wiimote controls. A lot of pointless missions to try and mask only having 6 or 7 levels too. The soundtrack is so bad you'll want to take a baseball bat to your TV since it consists entirely of cheese J-pop rock. It's seriously, seriously bad. What happened to the decent soundtracks, the ones which gave life and character to the stages? I've had enough with ****ing bad Sonic games where the preferable sound option is MUTE.
From never having touched Sonic '06, all I can say is what I've read about it. Terrible camera, gameplay + controls and glitches. Also human woman kissing Sonic. Another clever marketing scheme from Sonic Team there; What's Sonic missing...hmm...girl on hedgehog action? Successfully one-upped SatSR where the girl + Sonic romance was only implied. Seriously what the **** is the point in having Sonic having a romance plot that's to do with a **** human!? Surely if anything it should've been with Amy to justify her pointless existance. I might be taking this whole idea of romance a bit far, it wasn't exactly specifically said to be romantic I don't think, but SHE KISSED HIM! >< WTF!
Pretty much everything that can be said about the later Sonic games can be found in some, usually less extreme, form in the previous Sonic games up to SA. It was just a slippery slope for SEGA and Sonic Team and the Sonic franchise in general which they've just fallen a long, long way down. But Sonic will never die because there are Sonic fanboys to suck the teat of the cashcow again and again no matter how sour the milk has gone. SEGA will continue to ***** out Sonic with cheaply made games rushed out the door and continue to make money on it, the only money the seem to make these days isn't it? If any employee from Sonic Team ever cares to read this or ever has a good long sit down to think of how to make Sonic good again, he only ever needs to think of what made Sonic great in the first place. It wasn't humans, it wasn't poorly made stereotyped ripoff characters, it wasn't voice-acting or even 3D. It was plain and simple fast action, sweet level designs full of character and great controls and gameplay in general. Would it be so hard just to go back to Sonic's roots? SEGA and Sonic Team really need to do something old with Sonic and leave something new to the hands of developers like Bioware.
/rant
Sinn
Smash Lord
I wish I had time to read the rant right now D= I will probably have to finish it after class...
Reggie...he's a bit of a goof, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate him. That little Brawl speech WAS on par for some of the things that W. says though. The, "Not next year, not next spring," thing? Before he even finished you could so hear in his voice that his mind was going, "Oh ****, I screwed that one up."
I think a 50 character roster would be great too, and it would follow with Melee's example of doubling the roster from the previous game. Can you imagine, 50 characters? The amount of match-ups would be insane.
I less than three being less than threed~ \^o^/
Reggie...he's a bit of a goof, but I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate him. That little Brawl speech WAS on par for some of the things that W. says though. The, "Not next year, not next spring," thing? Before he even finished you could so hear in his voice that his mind was going, "Oh ****, I screwed that one up."
I think a 50 character roster would be great too, and it would follow with Melee's example of doubling the roster from the previous game. Can you imagine, 50 characters? The amount of match-ups would be insane.
I less than three being less than threed~ \^o^/
MR.WIGZ
Smash Ace
!!! what the **** that post is HUGE!!! it has over 9000 thousand letters!!!
SiD
Smash Master
Vali, you complain about "Sonic Fanboys" that buy these games and keep them made. While that has some truth to it, you are the real fanboy. You are stuck in the ways of the classic games and that's why you get little enjoyment out of the newer games. Sure, I love the classic games too. I remember playing them on my genesis, I remember thinking S&K was awesome because you could add cartridges on top of it. But I also very much like the 3D games, especially SA2. The others, except SatSR, I still got at least some enjoyment out of, and I think Sega could still do well with it. They have been moving backwards, but not for as long as you think. The gameplay engine and camera were better in SA2 than in SA1. If they go off of that but actually make things better, we'll have another great 3D Sonic game.
Another thing I can't understand is why all the Shadow hate. Alot of people are just stupid and just hate him because so many idiots like him. You are not one of those. You hate him because he is cliche. Why is that such a bad thing? Look around, on TV, games, movies, books, everywhere you look there are cliche's, be it heroes, antiheroes, or any other things there are. Shadow wasn't original, no, but he was interesting. In the way that Heroes is an interesting show. People mutating to get super powers; definite cliche. Good show? Yes. I think that in SA2, Shadow was an interesting character with an interesting storyline. Sure, they ****ed it up in his own game, but SA2 was still quality in most respects.
What is wrong with adding new characters? I mean sure, Tails and Knux get overshadowed, which isn't great, but I like new characters. It keeps the story and the looks of the game fresh. And in Sonic 06, Silver had the most interesting storyline and the most fun to play as, as he was actually different than Sonic and Shadow.
I know you feel hopeless, but please give Sega one more chance for a good 3D game. I believe there is a good chance they will learn from recent games and create a stable engine. But either way, some of us still get enjoyment out of them, so you don't have to play. Just please let those of us that want to do so in peace.
Oh, also, post 626. Stitch motha ****as!
Another thing I can't understand is why all the Shadow hate. Alot of people are just stupid and just hate him because so many idiots like him. You are not one of those. You hate him because he is cliche. Why is that such a bad thing? Look around, on TV, games, movies, books, everywhere you look there are cliche's, be it heroes, antiheroes, or any other things there are. Shadow wasn't original, no, but he was interesting. In the way that Heroes is an interesting show. People mutating to get super powers; definite cliche. Good show? Yes. I think that in SA2, Shadow was an interesting character with an interesting storyline. Sure, they ****ed it up in his own game, but SA2 was still quality in most respects.
What is wrong with adding new characters? I mean sure, Tails and Knux get overshadowed, which isn't great, but I like new characters. It keeps the story and the looks of the game fresh. And in Sonic 06, Silver had the most interesting storyline and the most fun to play as, as he was actually different than Sonic and Shadow.
I know you feel hopeless, but please give Sega one more chance for a good 3D game. I believe there is a good chance they will learn from recent games and create a stable engine. But either way, some of us still get enjoyment out of them, so you don't have to play. Just please let those of us that want to do so in peace.
Oh, also, post 626. Stitch motha ****as!
Takeshi245
Smash Champion
Vali, I'm not even going to bother reading all that text. Some people like the 3D Sonic games more than the classic games and vice versa. Oh, and this Sonic thread needs some spicing if you ask me.
I know I'm a Sonic fanboy ^^. It's not so much that I hate all of the 3D Sonic games, just most of them, and I do agree that to some extent there is a little enjoyment to be had out of at least SA2 but I thoroughly hated Heroes and SatSR (even despite redeeming many of the bad parts of others). I don't mind being stuck in the classics with Sonic because games like Super Mario Galaxy are the ones setting the new standards of platforming, not Sonic anymore. I'd prefer to not desecrate my image of Sonic any further until the games start getting back up to at least a good standard.
Cliches can be good if used effectively and cleverly. Shadow was merely thrown in there for the reasons I stated in the rant and was really an unnecessary addition to the franchise. I mean, how much different is he to Metal Sonic really? Metal Sonic may be a bit of a cliched himself but at least he made sense in the already existing story in a way and is garunteed to stay as a rival/villain/boss rather than become another playable hedgehog to take away from Sonic's playtime (I realise he was playable in SA:DX cut, I unlocked him for a friend ;p).
It's a really cheap way to advance the story, to be honest. Instead of developing situations entirely around the already existing cast of characters they choose to throw in a new character or 2 and build the game around them. That is a lack of creativity right there, and that shines through to the bland characters that they introduce such as Silver who is yet again another Sonic ripoff. He's even named after his colour in order to begin with S -_-;;. If he was enjoyable to play as then I'm happy that you liked playing as him, but I honestly don't want to buy a Sonic game to play as Shadow and Silver because I want to play as Sonic and if I want the action broken up I'd much prefer to play as Knuckle and Tails. The cast of Sonic is getting to a rediculous size now and with so many useless additions (Cream anyone? >.>) I'm really, really fed up.
If I wasn't still giving SEGA a chance I wouldn't have played SatSR after reading some of the complaints about it and hearing them from a friend who'd played it. One of the reasons why I did was because of the promise of Sonic-only action and no buggy camera sounded too good to be true, and it was since the broken controls killed it for me. The next Sonic game I can actually look forward to is Sonic RPG. I'm glad that people still get enjoyment out of Sonic games because I simply don't, but I just end up wondering if no-one bought these buggy rushed games which obviously have little effort put into them what would happen? SEGA wouldn't let Sonic die, he's far too important to them. I've reached the conclusion that if that was the case, Sonic Team would actually have to sit down and pull out a **** fine game and who knows, we might actually see a decent 3D Sonic game on the current generation of platforms. That scenario will never happen though, there's far too many people buying into Sonic still and I can just sincerely hope that the games they continue to churn out will be good enough to make you happy to warrant the purchase.
I've written far too many words on this page.
Edit: @YLink
I see where you're coming from with the 3D games (and I'm glad you agree on some of my points in the rant) but about a new 2D Sonic game...if Sonic Team announced they were making a 2D Sonic game with graphics on par with Super Paper Mario and going back to old school Sonic mechanics (like a more Wii version of Sonic Advance with better sound, graphics, level design since they could be better + bigger etc.), would you not cry with happiness? It would have the potential to be something awesome. You also seem to forget that the 3D Sonic games seem to be lightyears behind what Galaxy is turning out to be, but there's no really great 2D games coming out anymore. I'd say a fully Wii-ised 2D Sonic game would give the market something new.
ylink_underestimted
Smash Ace
wooow....WOOOOW Vali. well, just so u know, yer right about Shadow (i was 9 when i bought SA2). I still been a fan of Sonic more tho XD. still, i kind of liked some of the story lines in SA series. note that i said some of them. also, on Charmy, yer so right. i got so disappointed when i first heard his voice, then i started to read the little manual only to find out that they made him 6 instead of 16. also agreed on Mighty...wtf. and the voice-overs all sucked (expect most of them on Sonic Heros taking out the ridiculous dialogue). i did like most of the songs in the SA series (esp City Escape).
tho all of what u said on the bugs and whatnot, i still like the gameplay a little (despite all the bugs and camera). the 3D games were still pretty fun. yea all the classics were the best, but this is the future. it would be strange to play a new 2D Sonic game on a Wii while all other games are 3D. 3D games are a new thing, even tho they dont go by how the classics were played, its still doing something. besides, if 2D games were the only thing played, that would get hella boring, so 3D games give us something new, even tho theyre not as good. so u shouldnt complain AS much. no offense tho XD
Sonic 4 Brawl
tho all of what u said on the bugs and whatnot, i still like the gameplay a little (despite all the bugs and camera). the 3D games were still pretty fun. yea all the classics were the best, but this is the future. it would be strange to play a new 2D Sonic game on a Wii while all other games are 3D. 3D games are a new thing, even tho they dont go by how the classics were played, its still doing something. besides, if 2D games were the only thing played, that would get hella boring, so 3D games give us something new, even tho theyre not as good. so u shouldnt complain AS much. no offense tho XD
Sonic 4 Brawl
WoodyWiggins
Smash Journeyman
Right on Vali!!!
I agree with you,'cept when you started to trash Shadow in that novel you wrote a few posts back. Not cool. Shadow was the Rival that Knuckles should've been. When the rivalry died between Rad Red and The Blue Blur, It sorta killed the series a tad bit, no wait more than a tad! Sonic Adventure wasn't as exciting as Sonic The Hedgehog. Even though they added Big, E , and Amy, it didn't hit the spot. So when Sonic Adventure 2 was in development, people were looking for ways to make the Adventure series like the original with a little spice. Let's compare Sonic 3(&K) and Sonic Adventure 2. Sonic 3 introduced a BRAND NEW RIVAL, Rad Red or Knuckles. Someone different than Eggman who resembles Sonic. Awesome. Sonic Adventure 2 introduces A BRAND NEW RIVAL, Shadow. Shadow was the Spice! He resembles Sonic so much so that Amy mistakes the two! Shadow brings back the "OMFG " moments that made Sonic 3(&K) so special. That's why people love Sonic Adventure 2 SO much, despite it's major flaws. The response from Sonic Adventure 2 must've gave Sega and Sonic Team the WRONG idea, 'cause Instead of them improving the Adventure series, they add new characters to every new series! Adding Shadow was a good thing. Adding New charcters with every new serie(s) or sequel, bad. That's why Sonic is going down the valley. A combination of adding new characters, hanging(unfinished) series and gameplay experiments ( Ex, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, etc). Now instead of improving Sonic, It's like Sega is dumping The Blue Blur on Nintendo and partnering The Blur with Nintendo widely successful mascot, Mario, depending on Mario's success and Nintendo to make Something New out of Sonic. BAD IDEA. Wanna do something smart, ditch Sonic and add Goemon in his place.
I agree with you,'cept when you started to trash Shadow in that novel you wrote a few posts back. Not cool. Shadow was the Rival that Knuckles should've been. When the rivalry died between Rad Red and The Blue Blur, It sorta killed the series a tad bit, no wait more than a tad! Sonic Adventure wasn't as exciting as Sonic The Hedgehog. Even though they added Big, E , and Amy, it didn't hit the spot. So when Sonic Adventure 2 was in development, people were looking for ways to make the Adventure series like the original with a little spice. Let's compare Sonic 3(&K) and Sonic Adventure 2. Sonic 3 introduced a BRAND NEW RIVAL, Rad Red or Knuckles. Someone different than Eggman who resembles Sonic. Awesome. Sonic Adventure 2 introduces A BRAND NEW RIVAL, Shadow. Shadow was the Spice! He resembles Sonic so much so that Amy mistakes the two! Shadow brings back the "OMFG " moments that made Sonic 3(&K) so special. That's why people love Sonic Adventure 2 SO much, despite it's major flaws. The response from Sonic Adventure 2 must've gave Sega and Sonic Team the WRONG idea, 'cause Instead of them improving the Adventure series, they add new characters to every new series! Adding Shadow was a good thing. Adding New charcters with every new serie(s) or sequel, bad. That's why Sonic is going down the valley. A combination of adding new characters, hanging(unfinished) series and gameplay experiments ( Ex, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, etc). Now instead of improving Sonic, It's like Sega is dumping The Blue Blur on Nintendo and partnering The Blur with Nintendo widely successful mascot, Mario, depending on Mario's success and Nintendo to make Something New out of Sonic. BAD IDEA. Wanna do something smart, ditch Sonic and add Goemon in his place.
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