Official Matchup Help Thread

[Jester Kirby]

Okay...Kirby is by far my best character....with Meta-Knight trailing shortly behind...and I'm getting my old Marth abilities back since the melee days. Well I was playing this one guy today, he was pretty good with Lucas. He spamed pk fire while jumping about to try and throw off my game. IDK why but he owned my Kirby. :urgh: well that's fine and dandy but I beat him with Meta Knight! Was tough getting in close and staying there but when I did overhwleming was reletivly easy. But my best game was when I used Marth! Counter helped a bunch, and I managed to tip him plenty even though Lucas is a small target.

Anyway, why did my Kirby lose? Is Kirby just THAT disadvantage vs Lucas??

Sugjestions?

 

[Reioumu]

Pikachu vs. Kirby
Pikachu ***** Kirby in so many ways. The only thing Kirby can do against Pikachu's thunderbolt spam is dodge, jump, or hold down A and cancel the bolt with his everlasting jab, which eventually pushes him back to the edge anyway, at which point Pikachu can spam thunder and thunderbolt. This makes it hard for even Kirby to get back to the stage. When he recovers from above, he can only airdodge thunder, since his stone has too much lag to be effective. When he recovers from the edge, it's only useful to roll past Pikachu. Even if this second alternative is successful, Pika will likely just Dsmash Kirby straight up, which means more thunder. Pikachu has around the same range as Kirby, but the disjoint on his f-smash will counter a lot of what Kirby throws at him. Finally, Kirby can't even edgeguard Pikachu's stellar recovery, which is quite a shame as it provides Kirby with a lot of his kills. The best way to survive is to keep toward the middle and, when you hit Pikachu to the side, hit him with a bair instead of a spike. Also, inhaling Pikachu is the best way to stop his thunderbolt spamming.

DI Up out of Pika's D-smash. If you're too late. DI in front of pikachu so he wont hit you with thunder. I think Pika is a huge counter to Kirby though.

 

[Jester Kirby]

I was playing my friend on wi-fi today. He plays a fierce Zero-suit samus and is especially dangerous at the beggining. He knows how to manipulate those armor pieces to near KO % b4 they dissapear. I tried something with kirby though, I ran up and sat there inhaleing. He didn't throw any b/c if he did Kirby would jsut swallow it and it would be gone for good, so he ran up and grabed me, when I got away I managed to jump behind him and steal some of the armor.

So that stratagy can really help your early game against a good Zamus player, though most players just simply chunk the armor at you, boreing, simply dodge and let it go off stage, He was a bit more creative and controlling of his armor though so I needed more than fancy dodgeing.

Direct approach was impossible for him, he tossed them up into the air to reamin unpredictible and prevent an air approach or me trying to steal the armor...and he would throw it forward if I charged him.

 

[jiovanni007]

2 Ironic Match-ups

MetaKnight

MetaKnight is hands down the hardest match-up for Kirby. Very low start-up lag on all of his attacks means he's very difficult to combo effectively. High priority in the air means Kirby has to rely on his not as good ground game. Mach Tornado means that Meta can safely approach and retreat from you with little problems. With that said, Meta's uair juggle is vicious against Kirby. Not only that, but if they finish it with a Shuttle Loop (that's Kirby's Wing move by the way) you may die off of the ceiling at a low percentage. The stone can't counter this as its start up lag is too much. The only hope is to try to air dodge be you get Shuttle Loop'd. Edgeguarding Meta is also a task as he can attack on the way back and use a side-b to pretty much guarantee a safe return. With all the bad, there must be some good however. The good is that outside of Shuttle Loop and Dsmash, Metaknight has a difficult time killing Kirby, but Kirby has little problem killing Meta around 100%. It is imperative that you attack while coming back or you will be gimped. As far as the ground game goes, Kirby pretty much has it won. Meta's dtilt does have range and it inches forward, but with proper spacing, that's really the only one to worry about. Kirby's Fsmash needs to be saved until you're ready to kill without question. Ftilt is your friend. It outranges Meta in most cases and can also outprioritize some of his moves. Fair is a decent approach, but just make sure you get out of the air as soon as possible or you will get punished. In the air, you lose, always. Meta has less start-up lag and outprioitizes you. Do your best to lure him to the ground because that's the only place you can beat Meta. Once you've softened him up to around 90-100%, you shouldn't have a problem killing him off with a Fsmash. SHed bairs work as well, but he needs to be at a higher percent to kill. Just play carefully, keep him on the ground, and watch out dsmashes and Shuttle Loops and this match becomes manageable. Just don't feel bad if you lose because apparently victory is his destiny.

King Dedede

This match is a joke, seriously. It does actually take some experience to make this match easy. Once you know how the King operates though, it might as well be gg. King Dedede is a just a huge, slow target. Use every single combo you know, bair or fsmash him off the edge, and edge guard. Simple as that. The only downside to this match is that the King's spamming abilities are very good. Just don't let him camp and pay attention because his hits pack power

 

[Plasmaexe]

DI Up out of Pika's D-smash. If you're too late. DI in front of pikachu so he wont hit you with thunder. I think Pika is a huge counter to Kirby though.

Nah. Thunder is air dodgeable and if your quick enough before they use thunder, you can simply just use rock on him :x. Kirby has more range on practically all his regular A attacks, Pikachu is still hittable during the ending lag of Thunder if you're careful. The landing lag from Pikachu's Forward-B if he's using that to get back on the stage is punishable enough. If you're really good and right next to the spot he's gonna land on, you could ground hammer and that can kill at like 70% if you haven't overused it.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Nah. Thunder is air dodgeable and if your quick enough before they use thunder, you can simply just use rock on him :x. Kirby has more range on practically all his regular A attacks, Pikachu is still hittable during the ending lag of Thunder if you're careful. The landing lag from Pikachu's Forward-B if he's using that to get back on the stage is punishable enough. If you're really good and right next to the spot he's gonna land on, you could ground hammer and that can kill at like 70% if you haven't overused it.

A second thunder can interrupt your stone, it's too fast. A good Pikachu doesn't land on the stage with sideB (just approaches the stage or grabs the edge), he lands with Quick Attack, which is cancelable into another Quick Attack, allowing him to punish your ground hammer. Pikachu does win this one hands down.

 

[TwilightKirby]

pikachu isnt too bad ive had a few difficult pikachu fights but it seems like counterpicking can really help a lot against pikachu. the main thing i like is that if you copy his thunderjolt you can actually camp him as he cant camp you back cause jolts just cancel but your final cutter will knock him out of his spam as long as you avoid the jolts when you land. this forces him to approach you which is just awesome

now im interested in olimar... i have no clue how to approach this guy. his smashes have so much range its ridiculous... but the worst is the grab. ok so approach from above is bad since his upsmash can kill you easily, and ground approach is very difficult as he can hit you with forward smash or grab. he seems to be able to grab me a lot when i approach o.o plus if you camp he can throw pikmin at you. i dont think its even possible to hurt him more then he hurts you (or at least for me because i cant find a decent approach) the only way i find to win is to just make sure to gimp kill asap since his recovery is horrible... i like to stay on the ledge even if not invulnerable because it still causes him to die and as kirby almost always you can jump back up. but yes olimar cant compete with kirby in the air so thats also a good time to build up damage... the problem for me is getting him there

so anyone have advice on approaching olimar?

 

[Sandwich]

I DID NOT WRITE THIS. Warp, from the WiFi Wars forums wrote this. Don't credit me or he'll shove me down the stairs.

Olimar is pretty easy to play against. Most of the time.

Stones and Final cutters are your best friends here. Olimar is hard to approach.... On the ground. You're okay with gimp killing, but that won't work against a good Olimar. His usmash is also good, I admit that. But you remember that Fence of Pain from Melee? This works a lot. Also the hammer is good. The stone can be used as an approach from DIRECT ABOVE (meaning right above), and the Final Cutter is pretty good from afar. You don't need to get Olimar up in the air with your stone, let that do the work or just wait for him to join you in the air. Along with that, if you're stuck on the ground, run over to the side and Kirbycide for all it's worth.

Cheap strategy, but it works.

 

[Laijin]

now im interested in olimar... i have no clue how to approach this guy. his smashes have so much range its ridiculous... but the worst is the grab. ok so approach from above is bad since his upsmash can kill you easily, and ground approach is very difficult as he can hit you with forward smash or grab. he seems to be able to grab me a lot when i approach o.o plus if you camp he can throw pikmin at you. i dont think its even possible to hurt him more then he hurts you (or at least for me because i cant find a decent approach) the only way i find to win is to just make sure to gimp kill asap since his recovery is horrible... i like to stay on the ledge even if not invulnerable because it still causes him to die and as kirby almost always you can jump back up. but yes olimar cant compete with kirby in the air so thats also a good time to build up damage... the problem for me is getting him there

so anyone have advice on approaching olimar?

Olimar is actually one of Kirby's easiest match ups.
Approach with shield grab usually since Olimar likes to camp with side b. Shield the pikmin, then grab him. When he is in the air, it is beyond easy to combo him. likely he will try to air dodge, so read it and follow up with a grab. In the air, he is open for anything you want. :] And all your grabs will set him up in the air(Preferbly d-throw or fthrow).

If you really want to annoy them, find a chance to copy him and spam his pikmin back at him. You cant throw pikmin in the air though. :[
Killing him is super easy of course. Just grab the ledge. Olimar has fail recovery.

In the end, Olimar is a fail character against Kirby. Just spam shield grab and you will be fine(As in dash, shield, grab. Takes care of projectiles and all attacks). :O

Final Cutter does work too, but dont try to out camp him with it.

 

[h1roshi]

kirby is ****.

-hiro

 

[Reioumu]

Yeah, Kirby has a pretty easy time with Olimar. He isn't hard to gimp off stage if you just keep hitting him away and edgehog.

Pika is definitely harder :/. Of course, that was Azen's Pikachu, but still Pikachu <_<

 

[2pac29]

Diddy And Zero Suit?

Any tipz?

 

[Star654]

the only characters i have serious issues with are - Diddy, TL, Snake, Meta knight.. and believe it or not i played an amazing luigi the other night who i could hardly touch.. oh, and Ice climbers i have trouble with because of chain grab.. that, and the fact that i have trouble approaching them from the air make them a rough combo.. i usually just pick marth against a IC player >.<

pika isnt much of an issue, neither is lucas, sonic is an extremely easy matchup as well.. against a sonic that tries to come rolling at you with Down B to initiate a combo, if you just spam your vulcan punch, he gets cought in it for like 20%.. even better then swollowing him and easier to combo out of

 

[jiovanni007]

Okay...Kirby is by far my best character....with Meta-Knight trailing shortly behind...and I'm getting my old Marth abilities back since the melee days. Well I was playing this one guy today, he was pretty good with Lucas. He spamed pk fire while jumping about to try and throw off my game. IDK why but he owned my Kirby. :urgh: well that's fine and dandy but I beat him with Meta Knight! Was tough getting in close and staying there but when I did overhwleming was reletivly easy. But my best game was when I used Marth! Counter helped a bunch, and I managed to tip him plenty even though Lucas is a small target.

Anyway, why did my Kirby lose? Is Kirby just THAT disadvantage vs Lucas??

Sugjestions?

Lucas is another tough match for Kirby, but not nearly as bad as Pikachu or Meta. The fact that Lucas has a disjointed hitbox on every single attack (except for his jab combo, dtilt, and uair IIRC) doesn't really help the case. His approach is also very mean to Kirby, SHFair and SHPKFire are both devastating. You really have to play defensively against Lucas and punish the little lag that he has on his attacks. Air combos are tough because of priority issues. Lucas also loves to edgeguard Kirby with Dsmash because it extends past the ledge and on the stage. The punishes Kirby on the upswing of the Final Cutter and is intensely powerful. Lucas can also counter cutter spams with his PSI Magnet and recover damage. So you basically have to play more defensively and try not to go for the ridiculous combos that Kirby is now known for.

 

[Sandwich]

the only characters i have serious issues with are - Diddy, TL, Snake, Meta knight.. and believe it or not i played an amazing luigi the other night who i could hardly touch.. oh, and Ice climbers i have trouble with because of chain grab.. that, and the fact that i have trouble approaching them from the air make them a rough combo.. i usually just pick marth against a IC player >.<

pika isnt much of an issue, neither is lucas, sonic is an extremely easy matchup as well.. against a sonic that tries to come rolling at you with Down B to initiate a combo, if you just spam your vulcan punch, he gets cought in it for like 20%.. even better then swollowing him and easier to combo out of

There's an interesting infinite with the vulcan punch. Warp, the guy from my previous post had mentioned in the same conversation that Kirby has a wall infinite. Apparently you can corner your opponent up against the wall and spam vulcan punch, even holding it down is generally inescapable. I tried it and it works to a degree (0-70ish percent, but he claims it can go to 999%), but I don't have any vids. Try it on shadow moses island or a created stage with a wall or something. I know Snake, Yoshi, and Diddy can't get out of it with the exception of corneria, even though that wall isn't exactly straight.

 

[fetusdoctor]

Help vs. Yoshi

Well me and my friend play almost nothing but his Yoshi versus my Kirby, so I'll try to offer my help versus Yoshi.

-Don't take Yoshi's ability. It's awful, Kirbycide is 1000 times better.
-Kirby and Yoshi have similar speed smash attacks, so you roll the dice by being aggressive. Instead, roll, shield, and dodge until Yoshi uses his smash. Then punish him with yours.
-The f-throw to f-special(aerial hammer) combo works anywhere between 0 and 25 percent usually, so try to start him off with that when you can.
-Most of your hits will come from being defensive and waiting for the right moment to punish.
- Yoshi's egg roll has incredible priority, but it is easy to avoid, and you can occasionally punish it. If you see it, run to the edge (Yoshi then risks rolling off) and jump over the egg when it comes near. You can hit Yoshi out of it during a few frames while he is turning the egg in the other direction, but that's about it. B-Air works wonders here, or a nice stone if they aren't paying attention. If you want to simply cancel the egg roll a partially charged F-Smash usually does the job, but shield right after.
- Be wary of his meteor smash. Getting far above him or far below him before getting on the stage usually works.
- You can't meteor smash Yoshi often due to his super armor on his second jump, but it can be done. You simply have to wait for the jump to finish.
- If Yoshi starts jabbing you don't try to fight back. You have the same jab speed, but you can't do it as quick out of your shield. Just move away and get a new strategy.
- Yoshi's dash attack is the most easily punished. It can be shield grabbed easily, or you can short-hop over it and B-Air him in the back of the head.
- You can shield grab after his F-Smash, but you have to have good timing as he pushes you rather far away.
- As long as you can avoid his meteor smash, fighting him off the stage isn't a bad idea. His jumps are awful, so you will almost always win.
- Yoshi runs faster than you, so if you can get him to chase you then you can short hop B-Air him in the face when he least expects it.
- Almost all of Yoshi's moves can be punished with grabs. After you've racked up some damage with grabs, just finish him off with a well timed F-Smash.

 

[Sandwich]

Don't forget that Yoshi sucks in the air.

 

[Star654]

There's an interesting infinite with the vulcan punch. Warp, the guy from my previous post had mentioned in the same conversation that Kirby has a wall infinite. Apparently you can corner your opponent up against the wall and spam vulcan punch, even holding it down is generally inescapable. I tried it and it works to a degree (0-70ish percent, but he claims it can go to 999%), but I don't have any vids. Try it on shadow moses island or a created stage with a wall or something. I know Snake, Yoshi, and Diddy can't get out of it with the exception of corneria, even though that wall isn't exactly straight.

yeah the vulcan punch infinite could be useful on stages such as corneria ( for counterpick ) but, when it comes to nuetral stages it doesnt really help you out.. plus, i have a feeling your opponent would be able to DI / jump out of it around 30% or so, tho i havnt tested it

the ONE time i ever pulled that infinite off really well was on pokemon stadium 1, the fire stage where theres a spot in the tree, vulcan punch was definitely infinite there, i got my opponent up to 150% and then jus upsmashed him to his doom lol

 

[TwilightKirby]

Olimar is actually one of Kirby's easiest match ups.
Approach with shield grab usually since Olimar likes to camp with side b. Shield the pikmin, then grab him. When he is in the air, it is beyond easy to combo him. likely he will try to air dodge, so read it and follow up with a grab. In the air, he is open for anything you want. :] And all your grabs will set him up in the air(Preferbly d-throw or fthrow).

If you really want to annoy them, find a chance to copy him and spam his pikmin back at him. You cant throw pikmin in the air though. :[
Killing him is super easy of course. Just grab the ledge. Olimar has fail recovery.

In the end, Olimar is a fail character against Kirby. Just spam shield grab and you will be fine(As in dash, shield, grab. Takes care of projectiles and all attacks). :O

Final Cutter does work too, but dont try to out camp him with it.

shield grab is my usual approach and its what he ***** me for... if he sees me approach and the shield pops up he will grab me with a pikmin... i think i should get videos up or something... he wont spam projectiles unless he knows that he would have time to grab me if i approach... basically summary: if i try to shield grab he shield grabs too and olimar>kirby grabwise
and i do agree that throws are useful to set him up but throwing him is such a pain... i guess it just depends on the olimar's playstyle

 

[Tomato Kirby]

I see a lot of "I need help against____," so I think it is a good idea to bump this topic up.

 

[Dr.Dronicus]

Olimar is tough on the ground. Don't stay there. And don't play into the idea of a dashed shieldgrab. He will decimate you for this, by grabbing you back. And our combos may hurt, but his hurt more. Avoid using your fsmash too much, because near an edge it can kill < 90% if you haven't used it. Your main approach should be an angled dair, since most of his attacks are either straight forward or straight up. Don't underestimate his range, because they can get creative and hit you with their up+b from the ground. Also, mind the spike off the edge, some Olimar's can really pull it off. Try running, stopping short, and rolling behind him, then spotdodging. Odds are he'll predict the roll, but assume you won't spotdodge, and try to downsmash. Whatever you do, be creative, and don't be afraid to gimp him off the edge.

 

[ShadowDragonG]

So I just looked at the match up charts... And I'm wonder how Kirby and Luigi are neutral. I can't touch a good Luigi at all. It's crazy....

Anyway, I can usually handle the average Metaknight, no problem. It's when they start going crazy with 'normal' moves that I have problems. Most Metaknight's understand that Shuttle Loop -> Glide Slash -> Down Smash only works a certain amount of times. Most cases, you can shield the Shuttle Loop and Slash, and avoid the down smash. With a really inexperienced Meta, you can grab them after the slash, and have your way with them.

I've found that grabs, N-Air's and Final Cutters are your best friend when fighting a good Metaknight. I'll try to get a decent video up sometime. =]

 

[Jester Kirby]

game and watch...help now...plllllz

 

[Maraphy]

We need some Yoshi matchup advice.

 

[Laijin]

We need some Yoshi matchup advice.

Try and get a grab early for early chain grabbing damage. Then space your back airs and play hit and run(This works too well in this game). Just hit him with back air, then space far enough so he can't counter attack. He might try and grab when you land, so be sure to spot dodge a lot when you land. :O
when he double jumps, try and follow him through his double jump and hit him when it ends. :]

Its a pretty tough match up for kirby.

 

[Maraphy]

Added.

Dedede Advice anyone? Game & Watch? C'mon people ;D

 

[1nconspikuous]

i think this is the right thread 2 put this...

so recently i've been having problems with the ice climbers. the thing is, i like my grab combos, and with the two of them u can't really chain more than a couple attacks together (if at all). plus, they have that chain grab that can ko you easily.

oh, and i know the whole argument 'well if u kill nana...' but that's not easy to do consistently. in fact, you'd probably end up taking a lot of damage just trying to separate them every stock.

 

[marthsword]

i think this is the right thread 2 put this...

so recently i've been having problems with the ice climbers. the thing is, i like my grab combos, and with the two of them u can't really chain more than a couple attacks together (if at all). plus, they have that chain grab that can ko you easily.

oh, and i know the whole argument 'well if u kill nana...' but that's not easy to do consistently. in fact, you'd probably end up taking a lot of damage just trying to separate them every stock.

I have very limited experience with Ice Climbers, but I will try to give you factual information.

If you are worried about their chain grabs, you have to seperate them. That can be difficult like you said, but a good method could keep working. Dair has very high priority and hits around, so you may be able to jump in there and seperate them slightly. Maybe follow with a d smash or something to seperate them further and then start racking up damage.

You're probably going to have to give up grabbing to start the combo in favor of something else, unless you want to try to get rid of Nana. If you need to space them out, try d-tilt and hope to make them trip. Instead of a grab to lead into a combo, try an up tilt, it has excellent range. Once you pop one of them up, don't give them time to regroup, space a uair so it hits from whatever angle to knock them farther apart. Now you can lead into a combo, and hopefully rack up some damage.

This setup should work, but try mixing up the options. If you have time to get a grab in on one of them, go for it, and try following with a different aerial or an f tilt at low percentages, improvise and mix things up. If they try to regroup, try knocking one away with a fair even, maybe even a grounded stone, try different things. If you get a chance to kill, absolutely go for it, you can gimp them as soon as you get the off the stage really, they're very vulnerable then.

Don't be too agressive or you'll get chain grabbed, but don't play too defensive either or you'll miss an opening. Play smart.

 

[A1lion835]

Asdioh gave me advice when I asked about how to stop the mad chaingrabs. Paraphrased:

Don't get grabbed.

Seriously. That's the secret to winning this matchup.

I'll get a bit of my own advice in soon

 

[l SOUP l]

Metaknight.

How to exactly approach him, any valuable tips I should know against him when using Kirby? My Tink gets ravaged by MK and since I second Kirby I think it would be a good idea to use him against MK. I have very little idea on what to do in this matchup.

 

[fromundaman]

Abuse your shield. Most MKs play offensively and kind of carelessly. If you see a tornado coming from afar, prepare to Fsmash it.

When you knock MK in the air, make sure you are always there right under him to pressure his landing. When coming from above, MK actually has a lot less options that one might think:
-Dair (It's what 98.8% will do. Expect it and have your shield ready to punish).
-Tornado: (Shield and punish)
-DC to safe ground (I think I'm the only person who does this, so don't worry about it too much.)

Bair OoS is your friend. In fact, Bair is your friend.

Stone when you see a SL coming. Even if you don't hit, MK will cancel it right next to you for the grab (and it takes longer if he glide attacks the stone, which a surprisingly high number do). Get out of stone right when he cancels his glide and Bair. If you're REALLY good and/or know exactly where the SL ends, you can try to hammer where the loop ends and his glide starts (I managed it once on accident, more because the MK misjudged the distance on SL than anything else.), but as awesome as that is, I wouldn't rely on it.

Not sure why a MK would use DR onstage, but if they do, shield and punish.

Watch out if you see a MK do a random Fsmash, as they will follow with a Dsmash when you run in. Dsmash can also follow a DA. Actually, be careful with his Dsmash, it'll follow anything. Bair OoS usually solves that though.

Not really sure what other advice to give really... I tend to do okay vs MK, but I'd have to play one again and watch the eplay to really tell you how more in depth.

 

[l SOUP l]

Abuse your shield. Most MKs play offensively and kind of carelessly. If you see a tornado coming from afar, prepare to Fsmash it.

When you knock MK in the air, make sure you are always there right under him to pressure his landing. When coming from above, MK actually has a lot less options that one might think:
-Dair (It's what 98.8% will do. Expect it and have your shield ready to punish).
-Tornado: (Shield and punish)
-DC to safe ground (I think I'm the only person who does this, so don't worry about it too much.)

Bair OoS is your friend. In fact, Bair is your friend.

Stone when you see a SL coming. Even if you don't hit, MK will cancel it right next to you for the grab (and it takes longer if he glide attacks the stone, which a surprisingly high number do). Get out of stone right when he cancels his glide and Bair. If you're REALLY good and/or know exactly where the SL ends, you can try to hammer where the loop ends and his glide starts (I managed it once on accident, more because the MK misjudged the distance on SL than anything else.), but as awesome as that is, I wouldn't rely on it.

Not sure why a MK would use DR onstage, but if they do, shield and punish.

Watch out if you see a MK do a random Fsmash, as they will follow with a Dsmash when you run in. Dsmash can also follow a DA. Actually, be careful with his Dsmash, it'll follow anything. Bair OoS usually solves that though.

Not really sure what other advice to give really... I tend to do okay vs MK, but I'd have to play one again and watch the eplay to really tell you how more in depth.

Thanks that really helps, I feel that he outprioritizes me in the air though.

 

[T-nuts]

Stone when you see a SL coming.

at first this will work but a smart MK actually ***** stone with shuttle loop. if you are in range of shuttle loop, and you decide to turn into stone, the loop will hit you before you fully transform. also, my friend's mk just loves to get himself into shuttle loop position and then NOT use shuttle loop to try to bait me into a stone, which he then punishes with shuttle loop after i get out of stone. so i never use stone in that spot anymore, airdodging is your best bet.

approaching MK is tricky because his shuttle loop makes predictable back air approaches, even if they are perfectly spaced, useless. in general being above him is not something you want against MK even though kirby usually excels in that situation. also cutter can be easily punished if used as a projectile. MK is fast.

the two best ways i've found to approach with kirby are a long range fsmash to beat his spacing moves like dtilt and ftilt that he might use to protect himself, or a running shield/roll dodge/spot dodge into a grab to beat his priority moves like shuttle loop or fair. of course, if he approaches you, there are many more options.

Mk has almost no lag after tornado, and if you are running in to punish the end of a nado, use dash attack to kill his spot dodge.

once MK is gliding meet him head on with bairs or a spaced fsmash if he is low to the ground. this works better than you might think. also if he is predictable and follows up all his glide attacks with dsmash, you can just shield it all and punish him. a smart mk will start mixing in dodges, nairs, and grabs after his glide attack though so only block the whole thing if he is an dsmashing idiot.

hope this helps soup.

EDIT: also be careful punishing dsmash with a bair out of shield because often times dsmash will push you too far away for this to work, in which case you need to run and grab him. the problem is, dsmash is so fast, that you have to make this decision instantly in order to punish him fast enough. also know that dsmash almost always pushes your shield too far away for a grab without running, and if you try one, a second dsmash will punish you.

 

[pkblaze]

i need help on pikachu.

 

[fromundaman]

Good advice T-nuts. Does Fsmash go through Dtilt though?

 

[T-nuts]

Good advice T-nuts. Does Fsmash go through Dtilt though?

dtilt and ftilt will beat it out sometimes but usually if im predicting a tilt my smash wins...like 80% of the time i think. i would need to test it more to see exactly what happens here. i think the smash hits him after the tilt ends or before it gets really started or something. also fsmash is a bad approach in general, only use it if you can anticipate his moves at least somewhat well.