Not all aspects of an item may be discussed if I feel they've already been brought up enough and/or I can't say anything new. When I say "Strong ban," I mean I am really adamant about an item's removal. It's a convention I stole from Wikipedia. I do not designate "strong keeps," because I don't feel particularly strongly about those items. Items not mentioned are ones that I basically agree with Jack about.
Legend:
[+] Indicates a reason to keep, often indicates a negative point about the item, which may be counter-intuitive to some.
[-] Indicates the opposite.
[?] Indicates a point I am personally confused about.
<Strong bans>
::Starman::
[-] No risk involved once obtained (in other words, it fails criterion 2 miserably - when would you ever NOT want to get a star?).
[-] Wastes 10 seconds. If we are to assume defensive play has gotten that much stronger in this iteration of smash, all I see are players running away from the star'd man, until 10 seconds are up. This either makes matches 10 seconds longer than they have to be (wasting time is generally a bad thing), or allows the star'd player a 10 second stall in the case of a timed match.
[-] Intentionality may not play a role in its acquirement.
[-] Fast characters can get to it more easily, and can then press the advantage once they have it. Alternatively, they can run away more effectively if they need to. Since the inclusion of items already benefits speedy characters, I am not sure if more buffs is a good thing.
::Gooey bomb::
[-] In competitive play, only a player's intentional actions and his/her opponent's subsequent intentional reactions should decide victory. If there is a chance where this may not be possible, then that presents a risk that is far greater than any potential strategic reward. As the gooey bomb may cause a lost of stock through inopportune spawning, it follows that it does present such a tremendous risk and therefore must be banned.
::Lightning/mushrooms::
[-] A player may unintentionally invoke its effects, causing a major unforeseen affect on gameplay.
[-] Moreover, it can spawn on a player while they are trying to do something, interrupting their intended action, and creating an opening that they themselves did not choose to allow.
[-] The return to normal size causes more problems. Actually, see
Sir Bedevere's post. His discussion of the shrooms/stars is pretty comprehensive.
::Timer::
[?] Gets its own section because unless I'm mistaken, you need to actually pick it up, not just touch it.
[-] A one sided result will likely be extremely costly. Favors lesser skilled players, as they have most to gain.
[-] Effects are unavoidable, unless you are invincible.
::Bumper::
[-] Has no counter once applied to the edge, and as you said, breaks the second criterion completely. Since it violates this:
Acceptable Counter Systems in Place: Every move must have a counter; if there is no counter, than strategically there is no reason not to use it at all times. For an item to be considered 'balanced', it must always have at least one counter at all times. If an item does not have at least one global strategic counter, then it shall be deemed 'broken' and banned from play.
then why is it still up for discussion?
[-] Kills at low percentages.
::Soccer ball::
[-] On spawn, can give attacker a disproportionate advantage, randomly.
<Bans>
::Ray gun::
[-] The possibility of a ranged zero-to-kill setup seems to warrant its exclusion. At least with the fan, you need to move up close to someone to rack up damage. Ray gun cheese can be performed at range with little skill involved once you opponent is "locked."
::Cracker Launcher::
[-] Is crazy powerful when shot.
[-] Can juggle/combo into itself. Once an opponent is caught in the stream of projectiles, they are pretty much dead. Therefore, I disagree with the notion that it is medium risk, medium reward. When you take into account it's "raw power and spammability," I think it's safe to say that it's a high reward item.
[-] At point blank, the explosions do not hurt its user!
[-] Is fairly powerful when thrown.
<Keeps>
::Hothead::
[+] Characters with fire/lightning attacks get a minibuff, because they can use this item slightly more effectively, which is a plus because it enhances character diversity.
[-] Can be grown to such proportions that it will kill very easily.
[+] Allows a character to pressure and control space, in a way that is less permanent then a motion sensor mine (as the hothead is probably going to be spinning around).
[+] HOWEVER - it moves slowly enough that with proper knowledge of stage geometry, it can be properly dodged - in other words, you can play around it with skill. [+] Similarly, it takes intelligence to place it well, because as you've outlined, it can be completely useless depending on the setup.
[?] While it is true that once it's set, it can be reflected, giving characters with reflectors an advantage. (I do not know if this is a positive or a negative thing. Anyone know if it heals the mother kids?)
I would argue that the hothead does not break criterion 2 anymore than the ray gun, super scope, or battering items do. With respect to criterion 3, I would argue that it simply makes your enemies have to be more aware of their environment when they want to attack, but they can definitely play around it if they choose to attack, or wait it out if they so choose. I would say the hothead opens up far more strategic possibilities than the gooey bomb, and does not have the potential to accidentally kill a player.
With all due respect, the reasoning for this item being banned is a bit weak.
::Franklin Badge::
[+] Discourages "camping."
[+] Encourages vigilance amongst players. (If you like projectiles, you better be darn sure they don't have the badge)
::Hammer::
[-] Offers limited protection to its user.
[-] Really powerful in terms of damage and knockback.
[+] Not as powerful as it used to be. Luigi can fsmash through it if someone is walking on a horizontal plane straight at him. This can sometimes cause the hammer to drop out of their hands as well. I assume a jumping in approach from above can be stuffed with a good anti-air (maybe a usmash?) though I've not tried it myself. This is anecdotal to be sure, but I assume other characters can punch through a hammer if they can position themselves correctly. Potentially, they may clang and push the hammer user off the edge? Hilarity!
[+] Projectiles can impede it.
[+] User has severely limited aerial mobility and is completely vulnerable from underneath.
[+] Its inclusion gives a mini-buff to characters that can counter, and players that can anticipate the attack.
[+] Oh and then there's that whole dropped hammer thing. Suffice it to say, I'm rarely in a rush to pick this puppy up when I see it.
::Screw Attack::
[?] Effectively represents free damage that the user can deal. In this way, it is not unlike the super scope, which offers free damage as long as you stick to spamming, and can get on or above the same horizontal plane as your opponent. If that's a keep, I don't see why this shouldn't be. (Does anyone know if small super scope shots still semi-spike?)
[+] Buffs characters with more than two jumps, enhancing character diversity, blah blah blah.
<???>
::Unira::
[?] Forgive me, but I forget if this can hurt you once you set it. If so, then I say keep it, as it's more interesting and less destructive than a motion sensor. If not, then I guess it needs a ban, as you can create unfair static setups that are unavoidable. Maybe a "borderline."
[+] Does not seem too powerful.
[-] Can be deactivated and reused.
<Talking Points>
As you can see from my earlier item evals, I am big on intentionality. In fact, I think a lot of posters here are as well, but it hasn't been explicitly brought up. When you have items that can effects that can trigger without any intentional input from either player, you have basically introduced additional stage hazards to every stage in the game. While this may not be a bad thing per se, it certainly doesn't jive so well in most competitive fighting game scenes where money may be at stake. If I lose, I want to lose because my opponent did something to me, not because I attacked into a bomb that my opponent didn't put there, or because lightning fell on me and shrunk me just before I was going to trade blows. That really sucks, and I wouldn't want to win that way, either.
In any case, this is an amazing thread and I'm glad that people are largely being open-minded about bringing back items. At the moment, I am still sorta siding with the no-items guys, but I think that's largely due to memories of Melee, and my incredible hatred of the Dragoon, cracker launcher and ray gun. I'll admit I'm biased towards the hothead but honestly, from a game design perspective, it's easily one of the more interesting items to play with and against. Oh and it looks awesome.
Regardless, item matches encourage
[+] Item catching, adding more tactics, depth and whathaveyou.
[+] Glide tossing, which may fill the void in my heart that was left by wavedashing's removal.
[-] As a result, is a slight debuff to characters that can generate their own items (Snake's grenades, Diddy's bananas, Peach's turnips, etc.), as glide tossing will no longer be exclusively in their domain.
EDIT:
Just wanted to say that being able to counterpick and counter
unpick items is a fantastic idea. It's an elegant approach that would make this format of play much more interesting. It plays into Smash's unique strength of allowing players to customize their experience.
) any of my points, though do not expect my input in the subject. I will be back to edit this post with additional information later.
