Official "I need help with ___"

[pictish freak]

I have plenty Pichu knowledge, cant be bothered typing out an essay right now though.

Regardless, I doubt you're ready for it.

In fact, can you even L-cancel? Wavedash? Do you know what they are? You didn't know what DI was until a second ago...

 

[Deleted member]

He has trump cards that no one else has and can stand against any opponent. It's possible.

Far as I see, he's the best evasive character in the game.
Otherwise, Pichu ain't top of any other field.
Bowser and Ganon are knocking lumps out of each other to determine who's more powerful, Fox and Falcon trump Pichu in speed, Mewtwo and Jiggs have superior recovery, Marth and DK take range, Samus has ranged combat.......

What exactly does Pichu have that no-one else possesses?

Anyway, if you want Pichu advice, ask for it in the Pichu/Pika board. And Pictish is your best bet, though I remember Jarrod once saying he plays Pichu, too.
No one else springs to mind other than Azen, and he plays everyone anyway.

 

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Originally posted by pictish freak
I have plenty Pichu knowledge, cant be bothered typing out an essay right now though.

Regardless, I doubt you're ready for it.

In fact, can you even L-cancel? Wavedash? Do you know what they are? You didn't know what DI was until a second ago...

Hmm, interesting. Still, let ME be the judge of that. Besides, it's not like you've gained said techniques overnight (which is the impression of what I'm getting here). So I didn't know about DI until now; neither did you at one point. The fact is, someone started at the beginning and continued to work hard perfect their skill along the way. I can't L-cancel yet, And my Wavedash needs work (but I seriously doubt WD is really a tournament tactic). I think that L-cancelling and Teching are relatively the same.

Originally posted by Decadent One
What exactly does Pichu have that no-one else possesses?

Tenacity.

From the following posts, I am going to assume that Pichu is played defensively (or rather restrictively without B-moves, similar to Shiek). Such is not the case. In order to bring out the maximum gameplay for the Yellow-Powerplant, you have to throw caution into the wind. Give it all you got and hold nothing back. Expect damage and dish out more. Yes, that's right. Tit-for-tat. He may be the lightest but his power isn't the weakest. He may not have the defenses of Bowser, but even Bowser can be knocked out a low-percentages. The player simply has to want the win more and thus has to work even harder to get it with Pichu. That's all.
Gamewise-there's the "Stairway to Heaven" thunder move (it's a simple one, U-smash followed by thunder).

Keepin' it real once more,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

 

[Deleted member]

(but I seriously doubt WD is really a tournament tactic).

Someone get him some vid links.............

I think that L-cancelling and Teching are relatively the same.

They're not. Similar principal (hit L/R as you touch down), but different applications and effects.

The fact is, someone started at the beginning and continued to work hard perfect their skill along the way.

Which is what we're trying to tell you. We HAVE wroked hard. You're still a relative beginner. Trust us when we say our advice is more valid than yours. We're trying to help.

you have to throw caution into the wind. Give it all you got and hold nothing back. Expect damage and dish out more. Yes, that's right. Tit-for-tat. He may be the lightest but his power isn't the weakest.

Which is exactly why you CAN'T play attrition. You have slightly above average power, but NO staying power at all. Pichu can be KO'd off the top (ie, no recovery possible) at a mere 40% by many tilts. He's far too light to take ANY damage. By taking damage, you're merely allowing the enemy to play on Pichu's biggest weakness, and disallowing Pichu's biggest strength (evasion).

He may not have the defenses of Bowser, but even Bowser can be knocked out a low-percentages

Yes, he can, but it's far less likely. I've had Bowser, in a tourney match, over 300% damage. I've frequently had him over 200%. With Bowser, ayttrition is his greatest weapon, because he has unrivalled power and weight. Only Ganondorf can trade hits with him.
Pichu has neither great power (above average, but not great) nor weight.

Gamewise-there's the "Stairway to Heaven" thunder move (it's a simple one, U-smash followed by thunder).

Yes, we know this, and it bites with Pichu. Pika's is far superior.

In short, listen to us. We know what we're talking about, and only trying to help you.
Get someone to Im you some tourney vids. Try and get the Azen/Chillin Fox ditto to se what WD'ing is really for.

 

[pictish freak]

You're a self admitted beginner, how can you beleive you've discovered what people better than you haven't?

You know less than I belived after saying Pichu should play with caution to the wind.

I wish I had a vid to show you of a real Pichu... Pichu is capable of dancing around his opponents (wavedashes being supremely helpful, just cause you suck at it, doesnt mean it isn't viable) waiting for a chance to strike.

I've had many complaints about just how **** well pichu can play evasively. In team games with Decadent, the opposition often say 'No, YOU take the rat, he's too annoying'

You simply cannot compete AT ALL without L-cancelling, I'm sorry, that's just how it is, it's just that vital. No L-cancel and you'll lose to anyone who can, that's pretty much always 100% true.

Especially for someone who relies on shffl'd (short hop fast fall L-cancelled) aerials. I bet you cant even short hop. Try it. Now try it while running, now do an aerial in their, now FF at the peak of the jump, and time the L-cancel (remembering to not do it too early due to the lag when you land an attack)

This game is much deeper than you seem to think, and you're posts about Pichu are horrendously wrong.

Stop acting like you know your stuff, or it might work, or the plucky underdog might win.

You don't know enough, that's just how it is.

 

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Originally posted by Decadent One
.......(L-cancelling and techrolling) Similar principal (hit L/R as you touch down), but different applications and effects.

So, one is defensive(tech roll) and one is offensive (L-cancel)?

Which is what we're trying to tell you. We HAVE wroked hard. You're still a relative beginner. Trust us when we say our advice is more valid than yours. We're trying to help.

When did I say my advice was better than yours? Poppycock! My advice is for anyone who wants to play better with Pichu. Besides, I know my comboes aren't the only ones. But I've yet to see someone else talk about comboes at this point in time. For example, the value of WD and L-canceling between moves to create infinites. Think of anything to mind?

Which is exactly why you CAN'T play attrition. You have slightly above average power, but NO staying power at all. Pichu can be KO'd off the top (ie, no recovery possible) at a mere 40% by many tilts. He's far too light to take ANY damage. By taking damage, you're merely allowing the enemy to play on Pichu's biggest weakness, and disallowing Pichu's biggest strength (evasion).

Then that means Pichu was never meant for tournaments. If all he does is evasion than he'll take damage anyway, and thus is nothing more than a target. I don't believe that's the case though, so that's why I've been trying to find new ways of playing him. There's always something new to bring to the table.

Yes, he can, but it's far less likely. I've had Bowser, in a tourney match, over 300% damage. I've frequently had him over 200%. With Bowser, ayttrition is his greatest weapon, because he has unrivalled power and weight. Only Ganondorf can trade hits with him.
Pichu has neither great power (above average, but not great) nor weight.

Hmm, I take it attrition is damage absorption or battle prowess. In which case Pichu's is below average. Still, the average Smashed damage percentage for Pichu is 135% and the average Smash percentage for most others is 125%. Granted Bowser's is 225% and DK's 220 but you get my point. However, this is based on my own findings. Confirmation is still needed.

Yes, we know this, and it bites with Pichu. Pika's is far superior.

That 'bite' depends on several factors such as peak height from a Smash and damage percentages. Still, there's no argument to Pika's "Stairway" (*gasp*, yes I know).

In short, listen to us. We know what we're talking about, and only trying to help you.
Get someone to Im you some tourney vids. Try and get the Azen/Chillin Fox ditto to se what WD'ing is really for.

I do listen. Besides, my email address is on my Stats. Check 'em out if you want to send a vid or two. No bugs, please . Plus, anything else that can help would be very much appreciated.

Originally posted by pictish freak
You're a self admitted beginner, how can you beleive you've discovered what people better than you haven't?

You know less than I belived after saying Pichu should play with caution to the wind.

Even beginners discover things the pros haven't, it's called 'beginners luck'. Besides, selecting Pichu AUTOMATICALLY says you're throwing caution into the wind.

I wish I had a vid to show you of a real Pichu... Pichu is capable of dancing around his opponents (wavedashes being supremely helpful, just cause you suck at it, doesnt mean it isn't viable) waiting for a chance to strike.

Yes, please send them. But, is it just "dancing" and no "Smashing"? If that's the case, that wouldn't help me very much, aside from the improved exasive skills.

I've had many complaints about just how **** well pichu can play evasively. In team games with Decadent, the opposition often say 'No, YOU take the rat, he's too annoying'

Don't you mean "compliments" ?

You simply cannot compete AT ALL without L-cancelling, I'm sorry, that's just how it is, it's just that vital. No L-cancel and you'll lose to anyone who can, that's pretty much always 100% true.

That's with any character at high-level. Still, don't be so impatient, I'm working on it, ok? OK!?

Especially for someone who relies on shffl'd (short hop fast fall L-cancelled) aerials. I bet you cant even short hop. Try it. Now try it while running, now do an aerial in their, now FF at the peak of the jump, and time the L-cancel (remembering to not do it too early due to the lag when you land an attack)

Okay, I'll practice that. Can't promise you an "overnight success" like yourself, but I will give it my best. I'll also practice on my evasion to match my "All-or-Nothing" play.

This game is much deeper than you seem to think, and you're posts about Pichu are horrendously wrong.

Well, have you brought anything NEW to the table? Are there any comboes that might give Pichu or any character for that matter a new edge, to tilt the scales in their favor?

Stop acting like you know your stuff, or it might work, or the plucky underdog might win.

You don't know enough, that's just how it is.

Duh. Obviously, I need some more work. Still, I DO know the basics; plus, I never said I was high-level. You assumed that. And yes, the plucky underdog might win. It happens. Miracles happen too.

Keepin' hope alive and well,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

 

[Deleted member]

My advice is for anyone who wants to play better with Pichu.

Your advice will not help ANYONE get better with Pichu. You're telling people to get stuck in with the most fragile character in the game. That's up there with playing a hit & run Bowser........

Besides, I know my comboes aren't the only ones.

They're not even 'ones'. they don't function at all.

Then that means Pichu was never meant for tournaments. If all he does is evasion than he'll take damage anyway, and thus is nothing more than a target. I don't believe that's the case though, so that's why I've been trying to find new ways of playing him. There's always something new to bring to the table.

He's not supposed to do nothing but evade. He's supposed to attack, then evade away. Hit & Run. Get in, cause some damage, and run like ****. Constant evasion can frustrate your opponent, causing openings for Pichu to abuse.

Hmm, I take it attrition is damage absorption or battle prowess. In which case Pichu's is below average. Still, the average Smashed damage percentage for Pichu is 135% and the average Smash percentage for most others is 125%. Granted Bowser's is 225% and DK's 220 but you get my point. However, this is based on my own findings. Confirmation is still needed.

Attrition is the ability to withstand tremendous damage, and dish it out. For this, you need weight and power. So Bowser and Ganon are ideal. Pichu is not.
I have no idea exactly how you worked out your stats, or even what they're supposed to mean, but they're wrong.
Pichu is the lightest character in the game. When struck, he flies farther than any other character.
However, through DJ, skull bash and Agility, he can recover from pretty much any distance.
Unfortunately, he is still ejected completely far easier than any othr character.

Pichu is probably worse at attrition than any other character, except maybe Jiggs.
Pichu has to run to stay alive, and strike quickly before his opponent can defend themselves, while not leaving himself open to retaliation.

 

[Juce]

well moving along from the flaming, i play agenst someone who is allways moving and on the offence most of the time, if not he uses projectiels, i tend to resort to shield grabing, but this pisses him off and i still lose. i play as fox, mu2, and sheik, he plays as samus, and falco. any tips?

 

[Aftermath]

this sounds like an amazing player....

anyway, why don't you try dodging the attacks and following up with a few of your own. when he lands go in and tilt him and sart up a combo, grabs aren't bad, but are easy to get around/out of. if nothing else seems to work, play like him and just do a rush at him and don't give him the chance to attack.

 

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Originally posted by Cap'n Crunch
anyway, why don't you try dodging the attacks and following up with a few of your own. when he lands go in and tilt him and sart up a combo, grabs aren't bad, but are easy to get around/out of. if nothing else seems to work, play like him and just do a rush at him and don't give him the chance to attack.

Rushing styles tend to work best on Falcon, Fox, and Luigi, IMO. Ofcourse, you can rush down with any character, but not all characters are good for rush down techniques.

Providing some advice,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

 

[Juce]

thanks cap'n crunch, but i was hoping for someone elses opinion

 

[Koopa Hoopa]

I've only had SSBM for a week, and I have a few questions:

What does Roy's/Marth's Counter(Down+B) work on and how can it be used effectively?

My brother uses Pikachu and he does really well with edge-guarding and Attacking me form the air. I use Mewtwo mostly, but also Roy/Marth and Gannondorf/Captain Falcon (I treat these two pairs and the same character basically >_<). Which of these would work well against Pikachu and his aerial techniques?

I've heard that Mewtwo's Confusion (Smash forward+B) can deflect projectiles. Is this true?, because I've been trying and it hasn't worked.

Thanks in advance for any help, I'd like to get better at this game. So, I'll probably have some more questions later ^^;;

Edit: Heh, I already thought of two more questions ^^;;

I've heard that Sheik/Zelda is great for a beginner to be good with, should I try this or stick with what I'm doing?

What are the advantages/disadvantages of Ganon and Captain?

 

[Juce]

for one thing, dont treat chars equaly just because they are simalar. against a pikachu you should use marth because of his range. mu2's can deflect projectiles but it wont hit the other person. and if your good as "Roy/Marth" you shouldnt need your counters

hope that helped

 

[Solid Snake015]

Here ill try to help.

What does Roy's/Marth's Counter(Down+B) work on and how can it be used effectively?

It works on most attacks except for attacks that grab you. to use it effectivly, USe it when the enemy is close to hitting you. but dont use it too much or theyll catch on.

My brother uses Pikachu and he does really well with edge-guarding and Attacking me form the air. I use Mewtwo mostly, but also Roy/Marth and Gannondorf/Captain Falcon (I treat these two pairs and the same character basically >_< ). Which of these would work well against Pikachu and his aerial techniques?

Keep in mind all of those characters have longer reach than pikachu. For marth and roy, you can counter his air attacks, while all of them can dodge if you hit the R button midair to dodge the attack. if your on the ground, you can sheild it (Hold R), Rolling dodge (Hold R then hit left/right) or standing dodge (hold R and hit down).

I've heard that Mewtwo's Confusion (Smash forward+B) can deflect projectiles. Is this true?, because I've been trying and it hasn't worked.

Yes it can. but you have to time it well, since it dosnt deflect if you go too early or too late.

Hope that helps

 

[Koopa Hoopa]

Thanks for the help Foxhound and Juce, I'll make sure to try that strategy against my brother next time.

I guess I should've made a new post for my two other questions, but I just edited with two more if anyone can help with those. Thanks again.

 

[Juce]

well sheik is the best char in the game acording to the tier list. so i think she would be a good char to be since she iks easy to master

as for the CF ganon thing they are both good chars but it depends on if you want speed or power. but on the tier list CF is better, but i have seen good ganons though

on a side note, how do you edit?

 

[Koopa Hoopa]

Alright, thanks again Juce. And my mistake earlier, I thought your name was Foxhound, Solid Snake.

Juce, there's an 'Edit' button, but now it isn't working =/

 

[Juce]

i thought there was one, but i dont know where it is.

 

[Solid Snake015]

Its under the "View warnings" nutton and left of the "quote button" in posts.

 

[Juce]

oh, i see it now. thanks guy

 

[Koopa Hoopa]

Two more questions:

Are tier lists just one or a couple people's ranking of characters?

And are there any site with good movies of fights between skillful players?

 

[The Cape]

Originally posted by Koopa Hoopa
Two more questions:

Are tier lists just one or a couple people's ranking of characters?

And are there any site with good movies of fights between skillful players?

Tiers were made by many people, and are seemingly accurate.

Movies: check the DC thread at the top of this forum.


Question of my own
Anyone know where I can find good pictures of the SSBM maps? Showing the whole map with no characters on them?

 

[yomominacan]

the tiers are based on a lot of discussion and debate that takes place in the mbr. while part of the tiers are subjective, they are based on real facts (speed, range, power) all of these are not subjective, as they are based on numbers hard-coded into the game. Keep in mind that the tiers are based on current strategies at the highest level of play, and are subject to change with the discovery of new techniques.

to find good vids, the best place to go is the DC++ hub. there is a post about it stickied in the melee discussion forum

 

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

I guess the question is "Are tiers accurate to the characters or to the situation?"

Tryin' to understand tiers,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

 

[yomominacan]

define situation, I really have no idea what you are asking.

and yes, they are based on character; hence the characters being ranked in a tier.

 

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Originally posted by yomominacan
define situation, I really have no idea what you are asking.

and yes, they are based on character; hence the characters being ranked in a tier.

Situation = Stage, Players' skills, Battle rules (items, no items), Stock

Hopes this helps,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

 

[yomominacan]

maybe this will help you understand tiers better

they are based on both characters playing perfectly
not on equal skill, but on both players playing perfectly based on current techniques and strategies. They are also meant to be an overview of all stages. certain characters have advantages on certain stages (hence counterpicking) but the tiers are meant to be valid as an overview of all stages, items on or off doesnt make a big difference, and stock versus time shouldnt really matter much either.

for example. a noobish link that can mash up b can beat all his noob friends that play sheik. that doesnt make link the better character. because tiers are based on perfect play. as the skill of the players approaches perfection, just using up b is no longer a valid strategy. thats why tiers are based on perfect play. my noobish link friend gets owned by me, with any character, without exception. because regardless of the tier, i outplay him. so tiers does not mean sheik > all always. it means perfect
sheik > perfect anyone else (with the exception of maybe peach).

 

[Koopa Hoopa]

That tells me what goes into decisions, which helps alot, but I was wondering if it's made by like a Tournament organization or just a couple people at this board. If it's made by only a couple people, I think it might be a good idea to have a "Community Tier List" or something where everyone can put in a topic their rankings, and someone would average the rankings and make the "Community Tier List". I don't know, seems like a good idea to me.

And I have another question, what's a Chain throw and how do you do it?

 

[yomominacan]

are you saying that you disagree with the tiers and then asking what a chain throw is? that is the problem with a community tier. The people that are in the mbr, and vote on the tier are all experienced, and knowledgeable to be accurate when voting. the people in the md are not. if you dont understand chain throwing, then you dont understand why marth and shiek are so high (they have excellent chain throws (the abilty to repeatedly throw someone without them escaping)) and why fox and falcon and falco are not extremely high on the list (they are easily chain thrown.) by all means you are free to debate and ask questions about the tiers, and why characters are ranked a certain way. most people would be happy to discuss. You are even free to make your own community tier if you want, but i can assure you, if it is not made solely by the people at the absolute TOP of the game, it will be wrong. making an accurate tier requires knowledge of every strategy and possibility. I dont mean to rag on you for not knowing about chain throws, its good that you asked. but you have to know about all of that to make an accurate tier.

Im not sure about the number of people that actually voted on the tier, maybe one of the mods or mbr members could say something about that

 

[Koopa Hoopa]

I thought that there might be a problem with unexperienced players and low-level players (Both of which I am) voting, but hopefully the more experienced players will outweigh the unexperienced players. I'm trying to become more experienced and higher level, that's why I'm asking these question about moves and te tiers.

 

[yomominacan]

its great that you are asking and learning thats the best way to improve. See, there already is a list that has been made be the experienced players. it is the official mbr tier list. the idea is not to outweigh the votes of those that are inexperienced, that would make the list inacurate. there is no way to completely outweigh them, so thats why only mbr members get to vote. Keep asking and learning tho, these boards are a great resource. I was a lurker for a bout 4 months and that is how I learned everything that I know

 

[footnbaseball]

Originally posted by yomominacan
fox and falcon and falco are not extremely high on the list (they are easily chain thrown.)

...


are you sure you should be explaining tiers...seeing as how fox is rated 2nd best in the game, falco is rated one below marth, and falcon is rated 2 below falco, all of which i would deem as being pretty high up there.

 

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Nothing wrong with people explaining tiers to others. Besides, it helps in the long run and also means that tiers are always up for discussions and can possibly change due to new techniques.

Understanding tiers better,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

 

[yomominacan]

thats not quite what I means to say. Just a goof up of words. I meant that that is one less weakness the space animals would have. I think it would be enough to move them up in the tiers if they were magicallyun chain throwable as that is a big weakness for them.

and no, I dont consider myself an expert, or even good. I am also trying to learn and improve. I am just trying to help by answerign questions. if i say anything else wrong please correct me.

 

[Juce]

btw this is cap'n crunch

so how does explaning the tiers wrong to people make it better in the long run and "means that tiers are always up for discussions and can possibly change due to new techniques." Yes, tiers are open for debate, but that won't change them, and saying characters are lower than they actually are isn't going to find "new techniques". I have been reading many of your posts and nearly all of them are either completely pointless spam where you say "can't argue with you here" or you give your opinions about someting and end up getting everything completely wrong.

yes tiers are up for debate, but not by n00bs that can't chain throw or think of a valid point to post. The people in the mbr have either payed their way in or been to tournaments or just posted valuable inforation that did add to some discussion about the game further than OMG OMG ROY is t3h pwnz0rz because he has phyre like many of the newer people here.

Point is, stop posting Mr. P. A. Awdbawl and just quit, you'll never amount to anything, ever, so why even try?

 

[Koopa Hoopa]

What's a tilt?

 

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Moving On......

I need help with comboing my chain throws into my attacks. Anyone got an idea how? Example: I'm playing as Pichu and I'm going up against Link. There anyway for me to chain him and still have a steady string of attacks and all?

Waiting for an answer,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

PS. "Tilts" are when you just move the Control Stick up without Tapping it. These tilts can be used to combo into your smashes,depending on the character. Example, Pichu does two Up tilts (Up-tilt-A) then follows up on an Up Smash.

 

[Qwester]

Follow it up with any attack, it doesn't matter as you're talking about playing computers or people who don't DI and thus get chain thrown for a couple of shots. These opponents will fall for nearly any attack.

Even against fast fallers the only way Pichu can properly chain throw is to follow a tech roll. Even then, it only works once or twice at 0-15%. This isn't really a chain throw.

 

[MR. P.A. Awdbawl]

Well, okay, what if the roles are reversed and I play as Link. Can I still combo my chains into any attack?

Still looking for answers,

MR. P.A. Awdbawl

 

[Qwester]

Link has the ability to follow chain throws (because he can actually do them) with attacks.

Pichu does not because he can't chain throw.

ok?