Official Ganon/Ganondorf for Brawl (updated)

[Storm Eagle]

Don't worry, katanagash. He will be returning and he will not be a clone anymore. And he will kick soooooooo much more major *ss this time around! Tied with Marth, I can't wait to see his updated design!

 

[MetaKnightmare]

I don't think anyone has said this yet, but couldn't he use his cape to glide[/epic]

 

[SpitFire15]

How about this?

standard A: Same as from Melee.
standard AA: Same as above but with a quick stab from the sword.
up-tilt: Ganon swings his sword over his head in a semi-circle fashion. Similar to Marth's old up-tilt.
side-tilt: Horizontal sword swipe. Good knockback and quick.
down-tilt: Ganon crouches and blasts some dark energy at the opponent's lower body. Very smilar to Mewtwo's down smash, and works like Ganon's old d-tilt, except slightly less range.
dash attack: Ganon does a strong shoulder block that engulfs opponents in dark flames. It would knock the opponent in front of him instead of behind him this time.
up-smash: The same powerful double kick in Melee, but with a different animation, and the knockback is more diagonal than vertical.
side-smash: Ganon swings his sword from all the way back in a vertical arch. The best way I can explain how it looks is it would resemble Marth's standard B, except Ganon would end in a crouch and the move would be much slower and much more powerful. It would have crazy knockback, range, and if hit with the very tip of his sword, an opponent would get engulfed in dark flames. However, to balance this move out, it would have some lag.
down-smash: Ganon swings his sword low in front of him and behind him. Fast, and with no lag, but not as much range as his forward smash.

standard B: Ganon produces a red energy orbs like ones Zant used in TP. Imagine this as Ganon's version of Shiek's needles.
up-B: This would be like a revamped version of his Up-B from Melee. Ganon becomes engulfed in a twilight aurora and anyone who comes in contact with it is grabbed and caught in an dark energy explosion. If you grab an opponent and tilt the control stick up, Ganon launches the opponent upwards. If the control stick is tilted down, Ganon spikes the opponent (but nothing too critical). This move can also be sweetspotted.
side-b: Works exactly the same as in Melee, except Ganon simply slides
across the stage with his sword thrust out in front of him. Can be used as a recovery.
down-b Ganon strikes the ground with his sword and causes a shockwave from both sides. Fairly quick, but little knockback compared to his other moves.

nair: Ganon's version of DK's nair, but knocks the opponent vertically.
uair: Same move from Melee.
fair: Same move from Melee.
bair: Ganon swings his sword behind him in mid-air. Decent range and knockback.
dair: He keeps his "hell stomp" from Melee, but with a slightly different animation.

grab attack: Ganon *****smacks the opponent.
up-throw: Same as in Melee.
forward-throw: Same as in Melee, but with more knockback.
down-throw: Ganon throws the opponent down and shoves his sword down into their stomachs while they are still on the ground. Leads to a combo.
back-throw: Ganon, with one hand, effortlessly tosses the opponent aside like some cheap garbage behind him.

Comments? Thoughts?

 

[Deception]

I don't think anyone has said this yet, but couldn't he use his cape to glide[/epic]

He shouldn't glide, if he will float in anyway it would be an b up or part of his final smash.

 

[linkw00t]

Really excited to play Ganondorf. None of the Secret Characters from either of the previous games have been announced yet....right? And I don't think that they will.

Ganondorf using his sword would be cool. But I don't necessarily care HOW much he uses his sword. Maybe if it's just for a special move.

As long as Ganondorf's Final Smash is a transformation into Ganon, in any form I'll be happy.

Dark Beast Ganon would be cool.

Ganon from Ocarina would be pretty cool, but I'd assume they'd go with the most recent game.

Big piggy ganon....would have to be really really tough for me to accept him.

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

i don't like the cel shade model but his duel swords looks the way for me. just to distinguish him from other heavy fighters. so i'm saying a real model not cel shade but with his duel swords

 

[MeloDeath]

Good moveset, but remember Ganon was already quite good in melee. The thing he only needed to be truer to ganons persona is a ranged attack. The Zant thing isnt really good i think. In nearly every zelda game since OoT he was been throwing around balls of lightning, so why not give him something like that.
The thunder jab has te be in it though.

 

[Desruprot]

Correction GannonDorf was, Ganon however is huge and could destroy anything in his path being the true form of the altered TriForce. All we need is the update and would be happy with him in...

 

[-NEOLINK-]

Naw, Bajef8, Falcon wouldnt be able to knee.

 

[deebz435]

It's been a whole week since anyone posted... GANON FTW!!

 

[ValiantVernon]

good thread with good research for it! Ganon can be confirmed after Geno though !!!

 

[deebz435]

good thread with good research for it! Ganon can be confirmed after Geno though !!!

Um...no, The Dark Lord comes before Geno.

 

[Cyberbot5000]

Guess we wont see him till after the game is released

 

[PaperLink]

Um...no, The Dark Lord comes before Geno.

Agreed. Geno does not deserve a spot if Ganondorf doesn't.

 

[MR.WIGZ]

@gerudo warrior

the guy 3rd from left in your sig looks like hannaford hank.....

 

[MR.WIGZ]

@gerudo warrior

the guy 3rd from left in your sig looks like hannaford hank.....

qft!

Spoiler

ten chars

 

[SinisterLizard]

qft!

Spoiler

ten chars

You wouldn't have had to do the 10chars if you had just editing your previous post you made only one minute earlier... >_>

 

[courte]

is there a moves list with puppet zelda's attacks implemented onto ganon

the tri-field, sword lunge and magic ball

by bowserlick


Dash A: Extends an arm outwards. If his hand collides with the opponent, he throws them down, and rides them like a sled for a moment. Dark electricity overwhelms the poor lad or lass below him. At the end of the animation, Gannondorf will kick off, sending the opponent in the air behind the dark wizard.


just dam n and wow

 

[Deception]

With the confirmation that some characters will be unlocked through the Subspace Emissary, what should the plot for unlocking Ganondorf be? Discuss.

 

[courte]

With the confirmation that some characters will be unlocked through the Subspace Emissary, what should the plot for unlocking Ganondorf be? Discuss.

it is time again for link to take up the master sword to protect his liege and the sanctity of hyrule, unfortunately in doing so he has released the death seal placed on ganondorf and once again a great evil walks the earth...


off the top of my head

and he joins up with the bad bad guys plan for... w/etf i dunno

i think bowsers just doing his own annoying thing so he'd be classified as bad guy
but wario and metaknight are APpEARENTLY working with the Subspace army some how so theyre bad bad guys...

 

[Chepe]

I think the biggest argument for Ganondorf is the form of his obvious Final Smash: Ganon...

Will be be Beast Ganon or Pig Ganon? I think beast would be more appropriate for the TP Ganon and it would be awesome to see him ramming the sweet life out of everyone...

 

[PaperLink]

I could totally see Link get a glance at ganon, they have a small cinematic fight, then you have to beat him to unlock him.

 

[Althalus89]

I would definitly want to see Ganondorf join Brawl. He is the King of Evil after all, the biggest villain of them all xD

Since DK now is a nice good character with his little friend Diddy I think a big strong villain would be appropriate for the game. Also since Ganondorf has made quite the change in TP he should recieve new movements and the idea many ppl speak of hear that he could change between sword and Melee stance would be perfect.

I think there would be nothing wrong in having his FInal Smash as Ganon from TP since there are already 2 characters that send in their own armies, Pit and King Dedede. Ganon would be appropriate since he is the strongest form of Ganondorf using Triforce, Link gets to use Triforce so why not Ganondorf?

 

[Corax The Cold]

IMO hes almost definately going to be a secret character (no not annouced on the site) with a new moveset different from captain falcon's.

 

[Deception]

I've updated my Ganondorf moveset. There is a link to it in the first post if you want to see it.

 

[courte]

well heres my only fear -- that they'll do him like they did lucas to ness

i'm not saying it's remotely a bad thing, but i figure if your going to make a moveset, make it all completely new

 

[middie23]

ganondorf better be in, hes my all-time favorite character, i don't care what his attacks are as long as he's in with something new

 

[courte]

if i had one wish tho it'd be that his old sword, the never used one, would appear in some way shape or form. IDC if his old win pose becomes a new taunt i just want to see it again!!

 

[Mogrika]

Warning!: To all those who don’t feel like reading a book... I wrote a book for this post

After a couple of weeks, it seems that Ganondorf's support for Brawl has died, which I was shocked at. Come on people! Support Ganondorf! Since I did not expect nor want a rift to come between Ganondorf supporters, I personally requested Admin Mic_128 to merge my thread INTO the original Ganondorf thread. Hooray for ONE Ganondorf Thread!

Prologue​

First post: 08/23/07 --When I started the thread (the bulk of what's here)
EDIT!: First update: 08/25/07 (All updated text is colored Yellow)
--Added Vagrant Lustoid's proposed moveset for Ganondorf, check it out below!
--Added a few more arguments for the arguments section
--Added a "QuickList" of my moveset, to provide a less detailed, quick overview of my proposed moveset
--Added a general PROS/CONS list to Ganondorf with my proposed moveset
--Added a "Combos/Finishers" list detailing what possible combos/finishers Ganondorf can pull off with my proposed moveset
--Corrected spelling errors, typos, and other minor mistakes
Whew, my first update. Expect plenty more to come. Please, respond with any suggestions/criticisms/thoughts.
EDIT!: Second update: 09/06/07 (All updated text is colored Magenta)

The only Ganondorf-related thread I found was for both Ganondorf and his pig form, Ganon, and it wasn’t linked in the Index Sticky, so I made this OFFICIAL Ganondorf thread. For me personally, I want the current bad@$$ Ganondorf for Brawl, NOT Ganon (potential Bowser clone) NOR a sword-based Ganondorf (potential Ike clone), although I encourage those of you who support such ideas to become true Ganondorf supporters!

As of now, it seems most people on these forums want Ganondorf to have a sword for Brawl. Most likely, Sakurai will go with what he thinks the majority would want, but I believe there's still hope for those of us who want Ganondorf to remain melee-based.

In line with other character-dedicated threads, I created a completely detailed introduction/background to Ganondorf, listed arguments for/against changes to Ganondorf, and created a very, very detailed moveset. The thread I mention above included no such features. I look at xianfeng’s OFFICIAL Diddy Kong thread as an ideal character thread, one to be looked up to and mirrored. He showed not only unwavering dedication to Diddy Kong, but put the time and effort to make a detailed and thorough-minded thread worthy of him. In addition, it brought together every Diddy lover/enthusiast in SmashBoards. That’s everything what I want this thread to be and more.

I especially dedicated a large amount of time in creating an improved moveset for Ganondorf. Unlike most of the proposed movesets I’ve seen for Ganondorf or for any other characters for that matter, I specifically designed every move of this moveset to work in tandem with each other. What I mean is, rather than creating moves that “sound” cool but could never actually do well in a match or don’t work together, I created a completely effective combo-manic moveset.

The reasons why I created this thread and the reason for my proposed moveset for Ganondorf (found below) are the following:
(1) Ganondorf is fine without a sword (albeit in need of a little improvement).
(2) Ganondorf’s moveset should not use a sword except as a final smash.
(3) Ganondorf’s aggressive martial arts/street fighting style suits him perfectly.
(4) Ganon should not replace Ganondorf as a character.

I am dead set against Ganon or Sword Ganondorf being present in Brawl if it means no Melee Ganondorf. IF, however, ALL of them could receive slots in Brawl, then YES, I'm all for them being added. I just don't want MeLee Ganondorf to dissapear. For the purposes of this thread, the argument I am making for Melee Ganondorf ASSUMES that only one version of Ganon(dorf) can be in Brawl. liek I said above, and I repeat, IF, however, ALL of them could receive slots in Brawl, then YES, I'm all for them being added. I just don't want MeLee Ganondorf to dissapear.

Introduction​

Bowser already fills the role of a slow, large, powerful, monster thing (can’t think of a better word). All of those who like the idea of Ganon should play as Bowser All a sword would do is change his moveset so drastically that he basically wouldn’t be the same character. He would just become a Marth (or worst-case scenario a Roy). All you people who want Ganondorf to have a sword don’t appreciate Ganondorf’s moveset for what it is now and are most likely Marth users who like the idea of Ganondorf in Smash but hate his moveset compared to Marth’s. In addition, with Ike confirmed for Brawl, the “heavy swordsman with large sword” slot is taken. Quite frankly, I’m glad about that, as all those who don’t appreciate Ganondorf’s current moveset can now play as Ike. Also, for God’s sake there are enough swordsman.

Some people have also suggested that half his moves be melee-based while the other half be sword-based. This idea would take away too many of Ganondorf’s already great moves. In addition, the added necessity to take out his sword whenever a sword move calls for it would not only add further lag to the move due to the need for a “sword unsheathe” animation, but I think it would look too messy.

Another suggestion I’ve seen is that Ganondorf be able to transform into either a sword-wielding Ganondorf or Ganon. I hated the whole Zelda/Shiek transformation idea and I hate this one. Every worthy character should have his/her own slot.

Background​

When (NOT if, you all know he’s going to be in Brawl) Ganondorf is confirmed on Smash Bros. DOJO, I will EDIT this first post and update the thread.

Ganondorf’s appearance in OoT__Ganondorf's appearance in WW________Ganondorf’s appearance in TP

I know Ganondorf will be in Brawl and anyone who doesn’t think so is wrong. In fact, Sakurai’s DOJO update on August 13th of newcomer “Pokemon Trainer” gives hope to many more NFW and WTF characters. Link and Zelda are already in and so it’s just a matter of time until Ganondorf is confirmed.

Now everyone knows Ganondorf is the coolest character in Melee, in fact, probably the coolest Nintendo character. Let’s analyze a few reasons why he’s so cool:

(1) His (last) name, Ganondorf, as well as his physical appearance, reveal that he’s 1/4th German, 1/4th Irish, 1/4th Persian, and 1/4th Indian. Why is this cool you may ask? I don’t know, I just think it is

Ganon is an Irish surname (a less common, alternative spelling of Gannon):
Reduced Anglicized form of Gaelic Mag Fhionnáin, a patronymic from the personal name Fionnán. This name, from a diminutive of fionn, “fair”, was borne by several early Irish saints.

Dorf is a German surname:
German and Jewish (Ashkenazic): nickname or topographic name for someone who lived in a village, German Dorf.

So that’s where his blazing red/orange hair and impressive build come from!

Also, Link’s name has German origin as well:
German, Dutch, and Jewish (Ashkenazic): nickname for a left-handed person, from Middle High German linc, Dutch linker, links, Yiddish link “left (side)”. In Europe left-handed people were long regarded with suspicion as clumsy, awkward, deviant, and even untrustworthy.

Obviously this name was chosen because Link is left-handed (except in the Wii TP, for gameplay reasons, because most people are right-handed).

Ganondorf’s tan/brown (OoT) to darker tan/brown (TP, although it’s also greenish) skin means he must also be part Persian and Indian.

Those other two names that appear in earlier Zelda games, Ganondorf Dragmire and Mandrag Ganon, were only included in the American releases. More specifically, they were in the instruction booklets, due to poor translation protocols at the time. Also, Miyamoto stated that OoT is first chronologically in the Zelda storyline and so Ganondorf is his true name.

Also, in WW and Four Swords Adventures, the names Ganon and Ganondorf are used interchangeably. This proves my belief that Ganon has become just a nickname for Ganondorf, which I am glad of.

(2) Did you even see the full body armor and cape he sports in OoT, WW, and TP?

(3) He plays a mean f@&#in’ organ.

(4) He’s one of Nintendo’s only true villain’s. Bowser has recently become comic relief (especially in the Mario Party series) and his role in Sunshine just proves that he’s more of a pimp than a villain. Wario has become his own character and moved past his previous anti-Mario/Mario’s antagonist role. Ridley is another great Nintendo villain, who I want to appear in Brawl. I don’t care if this analysis is not “official” or “cannon”, but this is what I what I propose and what I think is cool. Also, due to the lack of an accepted, unified, coherent storyline in the Zelda series, we’re sort of left up to our imaginations on this.

Arguments for/against Changing Ganondorf​

Now I know a lot of you want Ganondorf to have a sword in Brawl, but I don’t think he should. Ganondorf is fine in Melee without a sword (albeit in need of a little improvement). His aggressive martial arts/street fighting style suits him perfectly. I feel the only reason why many people want him to have a sword is because of how great the final sword fight with him in TP is.

In OoT, only his pig form uses a sword (duel swords actually). In Wind Waker, Ganondorf once again wields duel swords. In TP Ganondorf uses one sword.

Duel swords: I feel that duel swords would not work well for Ganondorf in Brawl. The only way I could think of duel swords being used would be like DK’s moveset in Melee, like his smashes.

Single sword: Moving on to the final sword fight in TP, true, Ganondorf does look cool fighting with such a sword... in Twilight Princess! Brawl is not Twilight Princess and I feel his TP sword transition into Brawl would NOT go well. Besides, Ike has taken Brawl’s place of “heavy swordsman”, maybe Link too.

I've seen some people argue that Ganondorf used a sword in most of his games, so that's why he should have a sword. The same argument is used for supporting Ganon or a "magic-based" Ganondorf for Brawl. This argument holds no water. Taking all of the Zelda games where Ganon/Ganondorf appears into account, you'll find that he did NOT use any weapon exclusively.

In the early games where only Ganon appeared, he used a combination of a trident, melee attacks, and magic. In the games where Ganondorf appears, he uses a combination of a sword(s), melee attacks, and magic. So as you can see, there is no exclusive weapon Ganondorf uses. Therefore, that argument cannot be used for/against any type of weapon you think he should'shouldn't use.

Another reson I just thought of for keeping Ganondorf melee-based is that the only other two Zelda characters in Brawl (Link and Zelda) are not melee-based. Link is a swordsman and Zelda uses magical attacks. That way, with a melee-based Ganondorf, the three Zelda characters would balance each other out. In addition, Link's Triforce is courage (Master Sword), Zelda's is wisdom (magic), and Ganondorf's is Power (brute strength).

However, thanks to Sakurai’s creation of Final Smashes in Brawl, Ganondorf can now wield a sword in Brawl without ruining his moveset. Some people suggested that Ganondorf’s pig form be his Final Smash, but that’s not likely. Bowser already has such a Final Smash in the form of Giga Bowser, and Giga Bowser had a special place in Melee’s single player.

One frequent argument used to give Ganondorf a sword in Brawl is “Well, in Melee he’s Falcon’s clone, so he needs a new, unique moveset, which can only be achieved by utilizing his sword.” WRONG
Even though he is Falcon’s clone in Melee, their fighting styles are completely different! Just because two moves look the same or have similar animations doesn’t mean they have the same effects.

Examples with Ganondorf and Falcon:
Falcon’s Uair: Hitbox ends 3 frames before Ganondorf’s does (roughly when his leg is 45 degrees to the horizontal), which is why he cannot do Reverse Uair.
Falcon’s Dair: 6 less damage than Ganondorf’s, much smaller hitbox, much smaller knockback, and the same exact hitbox frames as Ganondorf’s.

Other Examples:
Fox and Falco, Marth and Roy: Identical frame times for most attacks, identical animations for most attacks, but completely different effects by the attacks, thus, completely different fighting styles.

In conclusion, I want Ganondorf to retain his Melee moveset, but with a few changes and improvements. Below is my proposed moveset for Ganondorf. Now without further ado, I bring you my proposed moveset for Ganondorf!

QuickList of MeLeo's proposed moveset for Ganondorf​

--Walking/running/fox trot/dash dance: same walking/running speed as Mario, same fox trot as Fox, better dashdance as a result
--First jump: same height as now, same start lag, same animation
--Short hop: same height as now
--Midair jump: much higher (high enough to let all of his aerials and specials come out in a ledgehop)
--Wall jump: now he can wall jump, which I want all characters to be able to do
--Falling speed: same as now
--Fast fall: same as now
--Weight: same as now
--Horizontal air speed: much faster (as high as CF, which will enable him to cover more horizontal distance in a jump and with aerials)
--Horizontal fall speed: much higher (he has a cape), which would enable him to cover more distance when falling
--Tumble animation: same as now
--Dodge rolls: same as now but, if possible, just a little longer
--Spot dodge: much faster, same as Mario's
--Crouch: same as now (i.e., a high crouch)
--Crouch cancel game: much better (on par with Samus')
--Traction: a little higher than it is now
--Shield: powershield covers his lower calves and feet now; lightshield larger as well
--Ledgeroll: same as now except less endlag
--Wavedash: same as now
--Ledge attacks: both of them the same as his current <100% ledge attack (although >100% one is slower)
--Rising attacks: both of them the same as his current leg-spin rising attack
--Grab: much larger grab range now (on par with Shiek's grab range, who is 8th in terms of reach)
--Throws: besides animation changes I made for some, all of them have the same effects as now, except for the slightly longer stun time the DownThrow gives to an opponent
--Grab attack: same as now (or, an alternative I came up with where he Jabs an opponent's face)
--Dash attack: same as now except the hitbox doesn't become smaller for the last half of the attack
--Neutral A: same jab as now, except it is ~1.5 times faster
--DownTilt: same as now except it comes out twice as fast and the hitbox lasts twice as long
--UpTilt: similar in animation to Zelda's UpTilt, but faster and with no magic
--Other tilts: I left Ganondorf's other tilt animations the same, but I doubled all of their hitbox lengths, and made the foot hitbox to the Down-Angled tilt larger (to stop sweetspotters).
--UpB: same animation and attack (it's a grab), but the grab hitbox is bigger, it can now sweetspot, it comes out ~1.6 times faster, and it's height is the same
--Ground DownB: now there's a Windup DownB (hit B once) and a Fast DownB (hit B twice quickly)
--Aerial DownB: same as now except it's a very-hard-to-cancel meteor (there should no spikes in Brawl), the overall hitbox is larger, and it still gives him back his midair jump
--Ground SideB: now there's a Windup SideB (hit B once) and a Fast SideB (hit B twice quickly)
--Aerial SideB: same distance as CF's Aerial SideB, goes through opponents, it's a hard-to-cancel meteor, and it can grabthe ledge
--Neutral B: Ganondorf pulls his cape in front of him, OoT style, reflecting all projectiles (NOT attacks), and it's pretty fast too, although it has to be timed properly
--UpSmash: same as now except the crotch hitbox is much larger (same reach as 1/2 of his ForwardTilt), it comes out much faster, and it can't double hit opponents
--DownSmash: same as now except when he kicks forwards, he punches backwards with his right arm and when he kicks backwards, he punches forwards with his right arm. The first punch/kick has the same effect and the second punch/kick has the same effect. Also, it comes out quicker, and the first punch/kick ALWAYS brings and opponent into the second punch/kick.
--SideSmash: same as now except he pivots farther back, comes out faster, and has the same reach as Samus' SideSmash
--Nair: same as CF's current Nair
--Dair: same as now except it comes out quicker, has bigger horizontal reach (in front of him), it's harder to meteor cancel, and it can hit sweetspotters more easily
--Fair: same as now except it comes out quicker and there is a hitbox in his waist now
--Bair: same as now except it comes out quicker, lasts ~1.3 times as long, and can hit sweetspotters more easily
--Uair: same as now except the hitbox starts lower (45 degrees below the horizontal)
--TauntUp: Current taunt. Ganondorf spins, floating in the air, and makes the most insulting laugh and face ever.
--TauntDown: Ganondorf just shouts a loud “Ha” laugh.
--TauntLeft: Ganondorf folds his arms and turns his head to the side as he grunts “Hmmph” (this is Fox’s taunt from SSB64).
--TauntRight: Ganondorf grunts a “Hmmph” as he gives a Roman military salute and then shouts a loud “Ha” as he displays the Triforce of Power on the back of his hand.

MeLeo’s proposed moveset for Ganondorf
Legend (terms used for attacks)​

Note!: For trajectory, I used compass directions instead of descriptions like Up, Down, Horizontal because to me they are more clear and give me a better way to describe the trajectories. See the compass below if you don't know for some reason.

General info: General information
Animation description: Description of the animation of the attack
Range: The range of the attack
Damage: How much damage the attack deals to the opponent
Knockback: How far the opponent is knocked back by the attack
Stun time: How much stun the opponent receives from the attack
Trajectory: What direction the opponent is sent by the attack. I will use North, South, East, and West and all angles in between to describe this (you know, a map compass).
Powershield eat: How much of an opponent’s powershield the attack eats
Powershield knockback: How far back the attack knocks a powershielding opponent
Note!: For lightshields, just assume that the above powershield stats are increased by a lot.
Total frames: How long the attack animation lasts (until the character stands up on his own)
Hitboxes: Where the hitboxes are located
Hitbox frames: Which frames the hitboxes are out
Type: The type of move it is, i.e, combo starter, finisher, et cetera
Recovery speed: How soon you can react after an aerial move lands on the ground (both normal reaction time and lag-cancelled, in frames)
IASA: The soonest time you can perform another move before the attack animation ends (Interruptible As Soon As)
Extra information: Any extra information

Walking/running/fox trot/dash dance​

Ganondorf has the longest legs of any character by far and yet his stride is one of the shortest. He should have the longest stride in the game, resulting in:
(1) a much faster walking speed (on par with Mario’s walking speed),
(2) a much faster running speed (on par with Mario’s running speed),
(3) a longer fox trot (on par with Fox’s fox trot), and
(4) a much better dashdance resulting from an improved fox trot.
The above improvements would expand his mindgames and techchasing abilities greatly.

First jump​

I think Ganondorf’s current first jump has a good height. It is just high enough to allow him to perfectly waveland on the bottom platforms of a few stages like DL64, BF, and YS. However, the animation of his first jump (the same exact posture as Mario’s first jump) can cause some wavelanding problems (mostly wavelanding on the stage).
In his first jump, his back leg hangs like 1 foot lower then his front leg. Because his midair dodge causes him to contract his arms and legs (namely, pull his back leg together with his front leg), his overall length becomes shorter than during his first jump. This is just a slight annoyance to me and I don’t think anything really has to be done about this.

Short hop
His current short hop is fine.

Midair jump​

I like both the forwards and backwards midair jump animations, but aside from that, it’s just plain too short in Melee. Because it’s so short, the only real ledgehop Ganondorf can do is with his Uair, and that’s only because the Uair animation brings his legs above him. Yea, the first Nair kick can come out too, but that’s just too hard and risky to do for such a crappy payoff.
His midair jump should be just high enough to let all his aerial hitboxes come out in a Ledgehop (including all special moves). I know a lengthened midair jump would cause his ledge stall to lose its full invincibility and end his double platform wavelands, but I think the benefits outway the deficits here.

Wall jump​

I think every character in Brawl, Ganondorf included, should have a wall jump. If every character can wall tech jump, then every character should be able to wall jump.

Falling speed​

I don’t know if weight will affect vertical KOS in Brawl instead of the way falling speed does now in Melee. I wouldn’t really have a problem with the physics remaining that way. I think his falling speed is fine since it allows him to stall his jumps long enough to give him extra mindgames with aerials. In addition, it’s high enough that he’s not too easily KO’d vertically compared to other characters.

Fast fall
Tied in with falling speed. I think it’s fine as it is.

Weight​

I think his weight is fine as it is. His weight is high enough that he’s not too easily KO’d out horizontally. In addition, in Sakurai’s description for Ike’s UpB, which mirrors Kirby’s UpB, he states that he will not flinch at the beginning of the attack. He goes on to say that you should expect this from most heavy characters’ special moves, which is good news for Ganondorf. I will include this “no flinching” ability in Ganondorf’s special moves.

Horizontal air speed​

It needs to be a faster than it currently is. Ganon has one of the slowest horizontal air speeds and that affects his punishing ability and aerial attack reach. In addition, a faster air speed would cause Ganon’s UpB to cover much more horizontal distance, which he needs. This is why Falcon’s UpB covers so much more horizontal distance than Ganondorf’s, because he has one of the fastest horizontal air speeds. This is also why Falcon can practically jump across half of FD with aerials.

Horizontal fall speed​

Not to be confused with horizontal air speed, horizontal fall speed is how far a character can move horizontally while falling. Ganondorf has one of the slowest horizontal fall speeds. I think it should be increased because it effects how much distance his UpB can cover after it enters the fall animation. In addition, a faster horizontal fall speed means that faking out opponents to dodge edgeguarding moves with Ganondorf’s UpB would be more effective. Also, he has a freakin’ cape, so he should have a very high horizontal fall speed anyway.

Tumble animation
It’s fine as it is.

Dodge rolls​

Both of Ganondorf’s dodge roll’s are great. They both cover the same (fairly large) distance, are pretty fast, and give him good invincibility time. In fact, he is one of the only characters who has extremely useful and necessary dodge rolls. Maybe just a slight length increase would make me happy.
If his dodge roll ends inside another character, because of his big body, instead of rolling behind the person he gets pushed in front of them. I know you shouldn’t really dodge roll into such a vulnerable position, but if it was slightly longer it would just be better for Ganondorf.

Spot dodge​

Worst, spot dodge, ever (tied with Falcon’s). Not only is it the second longest in duration (37 frames instead of most characters’ 22 frames), but the few extra frames of invincibility it gives (19 frames instead of most characters’ 14 frames) is not worth it. Every character can dashdance twice around Ganondorf before his spot dodge ends. Give him (along with Falcon) a real spot dodge (on par with Mario’s spot dodge).

Crouch​

He’s a big guy, so he should have one of the least effective (i.e., tallest) crouches. I say his current crouch is fine.

Crouch cancel game​

I feel that Ganondorf’s crouch cancel game is bad. In line with his heavy, big-bodied nature, he should have one of the most effective crouch cancels, but he doesn’t. In addition, even when you do crouch cancel an attack, he slides like 1 foot back to even a semi-powerful attack at low percentages, thereby eliminating any chance of counter attacking after a crouch cancel. Furthermore, his DownTilt (normally the quickest and most common crouch cancel counter) is not an effective crouch cancelled counter:
It takes fairly long to come out, the hitbox only last for 3 frames (half of Falcon’s even though they are exactly the same in every other way), and only reaches any significant distance on that last hitbox frame. And so, in addition to a much improved crouch cancel (on par with Samus’ crouch cancel), I propose a better DownTilt as well, which you will see below.

Traction​

Ties in with his crouch cancel game. Being a heavy, big-bodied character with heavy combat boots, Ganondorf should have one of the best tractions in the game.

Shield​

There really isn’t a big difference between characters’ shields except for size. The thing I don’t like about Ganondorf’s powershield is that it doesn’t protect his calves and feet. This makes him more vulnerable than most other characters to low hitting attacks or attacks from under him while he’s on a platform. His powershield should protect his calves and feet.
In addition, in accordance with a larger power shield, his light shield should also be made larger, which would improve his light shield tilting ability.

Ledge roll​

His ledge roll is good. It’s fast and covers the second largest distance in the game. However, the end lag is too long. The endlag should be reduced (on par with Shiek’s ledge roll endlag) so he could follow up his ledge roll with an attack before an opponent could react.

Wavedash​

Hopefully wavedashing will remain in Brawl. I think his wavedash is fine as it is. With a fairly high startup lag jump, his wavedash comes out slower than most characters, but I’m fine with this. It covers a good distance as well. Besides, I think first jump, falling speed, and traction all affect a character’s wavedash, and I don’t want to really change any of those stats for Ganondorf just for his wavedash.

Ledge attack(s)​

General info: His current ledge attacks are okay. The <100% and >100% ledge attacks both cover the 5th and 4th longest distances respectively, which is good. I say his >100% ledge attack could be changed to be the same as his <100% ledge attack, albeit slower of course.
Animation description: He swings his body over the ledge, bringing his right leg down on the ground in an arc.
Range: The attack is the length of his leg from his waist to his foot.
Damage: 10% for both (same % now for <100% ledge attack, 2% higher than >100%)
Knockback: low
Stun time: low
Trajectory: If hit by his leg: East/West
__________If hit inside his waist: SouthEast/SouthWest
Powershield eat: very low
Powershield knockback: very low
Total frames: 24
Hitboxes: foot, leg, waist
Hitbox frames: 7-12
Type: quick recovery
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 25
Extra information: Invincible on frames 3-6

Rising attack(s)​

General info: I think his leg spin rising attack (two leg spins) is great and should remain the same. I hate his other rising attack though, where he kicks both feet into the ground to stand up, and it should be replaced with his leg spin rising attack.
Animation description: He lifts his body up with his hand, stands on his head, and spin-kicks twice with his legs which are at 180°.
Range: The attack is the length of both his outstretched legs and is close to the ground.
Damage: 12% (6% per leg spin)
Knockback: low
Stun time: low
Trajectory: East/West
Powershield eat: very low (per kick), total (both kicks) = low
Powershield knockback: very low (per kick), total (both kicks) = low
Total frames: 30
Hitboxes: both feet, both legs, waist, head; basically, his whole spinning body
Hitbox frames: 7-10, 13-16
Type: quick recovery
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 31
Extra information: Invincible on frames 3-6

Grab(s)​

Long arms = long grab range. In Melee, his grab range is pathetic; he just grasps his hand closed like 6 inches from his chest. Come to think of it, DK has arms twice as long as the character with the second longest arms (Ganondorf) and his grab is almost as bad. Ganondorf should reach out with his full arm length to grab (grab range on par with his Jab range). CF, who has the same grab range as Ganondorf albeit slightly smaller, at least has a Dash and JC Grab that make him slide like a full stride forward, but Ganondorf doesn’t even have that. Come on, I mean Ganondorf and Falcon are full grown, buff, tall men and yet they have a smaller grab range than a 3 foot fox.
For the grab stats, I think everyone has pretty much the same frame times for standing and dashing grabs except for like Bowser, so all those stats should stay the same.

Grab attack​

Meh, it’s okay as it is, kneeing opponents in the face. This can be kept or another one I though of is where he jabs a grabbed opponent in the face, either one is fine with me.

UpThrow​

Ganondorf quickly swings the opponent up in the air making his classic “teuh” sound as he does so. In addition, with a higher midair jump, opponents won’t be able to escape a follow up attack from his UpThrow as easily as they can now (especially Samus).
Damage: 7%
Knockback: very low
Trajectory: North, NorthEast/NorthWest
Stun time: low/med
Type: combo starter, CG, techpunish setup

DownThrow​

His current DownThrow is great and allows for a pretty good CG and combo game, but most especially a great tech punishing game. His DownThrow animation should remain the same, including his grunts/shouts. In addition, with an improved stride, fox trot, and grab range, his tech chase and punishing game after a DownThrow will be improved dramatically.
Damage: 9%
Knockback: very low
Trajectory: North, NorthEast, NorthWest
Knockback: very low
Stun time: med
Type: combo starter, CG, techpunish setup

ForwardThrow​

Ganondorf quickly throws the opponent in front of him using both arms (like the animation of Luigi’s ForwardThrow).
Damage: 7%
Knockback: low
Trajectory: East, West
Stun time: low/med
Type: edgeguard setup

BackThrow​

He spins his body once and quickly swings the opponent behind him (like the animation of Luigi’s BackThrow, but he only spins once).
Damage: 9%
Knockback: low
Trajectory: East, West
Stun time: med
Type: edgeguard setup

DashAttack​

General info: His dash attack is actually pretty good. The only stupid this is how he falls of the stage if the animation ends near it.
Animation description: He thrusts his body forward, shoulder out in front.
Range: The attack length is from his chest to his shoulder (the hitbox on the shoulder itself is huge).
Damage: 12%
Knockback: med
Stun time: low/med
Trajectory: If hit by the first half of the attack: NorthEast/NorthWest (behind Ganondorf)
__________If hit by the last half of the attack: NorthEast/NorthWest (in front of Ganondorf)
Powershield eat: low
Powershield knockback: low/med
Total frames: 26
Hitboxes: shoulder (very large hitbox), chest
Hitbox frames: First half: 7-10
_____________Second half: 11-14
Type: quick attack
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 27
Extra information: none

Neutral A​

General info: Ganondorf’s current Jab is infinitely needed and useful to him. Without it, all of Ganondorf’s aerials would be abused 3x as much and he would have no quick attack whatsoever.
Animation description: He quickly jabs with his fisted right hand
Range: The attack is the length from his back to his fully extended, fisted right arm.
Damage: 8%
Knockback: low/med
Stun time: low/med
Trajectory: If hit by his fist/arm: East, West
__________If hit inside his chest/back: SouthEast/SouthWest (away from his back)
Powershield eat: low
Powershield knockback: none
Total frames: 18
Hitboxes: fist, arm, chest, back
Hitbox frames: 3-6
Type: quick attack
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 13
Extra information: In 2v2, Ganondorf’s Jab is fast enough to never allow an opponent to escape the grab of his partner.

DownTilt​

General info: As it is now, it takes fairly long to come out, the hitbox only last for 3 frames (half of Falcon’s even though they are exactly the same in every other way), and only reaches any significant distance on that last hitbox frame. I improved it greatly.
Animation description: He quickly sweeps his right leg on the floor, from left to right (left to right in terms of stage depth).
Range: The attack is the length from behind/under his butt to his extended leg/foot.
Damage: 12%
Knockback: low
Stun time: med
Trajectory: If hit by his leg/foot: North, NorthEast/NorthWest (away from his face)
__________If by his butt: NorthEast/NorthWest (away from his face)
Powershield eat: low
Powershield knockback: low
Total frames: 30
Hitboxes: butt (extends behind and below it), leg, foot
Hitbox frames: 5-10
Type: combo starter, finisher setup
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 26
Extra information: none

UpTilt​

General info: It is the most useless move in the game, but if you ever do manage to pull it off (as rare as winning lotto), it is the biggest b!&#% slap. However, I gave him a useful UpTilt now (similar to Zelda’s UpTilt, but without the magic).
Animation description: He arcs a fist with his right hand above his head, from behind his back to in front of his face.
Range: The length of the attack is his fully extended, fisted right arm.
Damage: 12%
Knockback: very low/low
Stun time: low/med
Trajectory: North
Powershield eat: very low
Powershield knockback: none
Total frames: 30
Hitboxes: fist, arm, shoulder
Hitbox frames: 5-10
Type: at low%: juggler; at med-high%: combo starter, finisher setup
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 26
Extra information: none

Up-Angled ForwardTilt​

General info: All of his tilts are rather good and used fairly often. I made minor improvements. This tilt is the least used one, but it still has its uses.
Animation description: He swings his straight right leg 45° into the air.
Range: The length of the attack is from his waist to the foot of his extended right leg.
Damage: 13%
Knockback: med
Stun time: low/med
Trajectory: East/West
Powershield eat: very low
Powershield knockback: none
Total frames: 36
Hitboxes: waist, leg, foot
Hitbox frames: 9-14
Type: spacer
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 32
Extra information: none

ForwardTilt​

General info: All of his tilts are rather good and used fairly often. I made minor improvements. This tilt is the most often used and has good length.
Animation description: He swings his curved right leg (bends his knee) a foot or so above the ground.
Range: The length of the attack is from his waist to the foot of his extended right leg.
Damage: 12%
Knockback: med
Stun time: low/med
Trajectory: East/West
Powershield eat: very low
Powershield knockback: low
Total frames: 36
Hitboxes: waist, leg, foot
Hitbox frames: 9-14
Type: spacer, (tech)punisher
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 32
Extra information: none

Down-Angled ForwardTilt​

General info: All of his tilts are rather good and used fairly often. I made minor improvements. This tilt is useful for edgeguarding.
Animation description: He swings his right leg close to the ground.
Range: The length of the attack is from his waist to the foot of his extended leg (the hitbox extends below his foot enough to stop sweetspotting if timed correctly).
Damage: 11%
Knockback: med
Stun time: med
Trajectory: SouthEast/SouthWest
Powershield eat: very low
Powershield knockback: none
Total frames: 36
Hitboxes: waist, leg, foot (hitbox slightly extends below foot)
Hitbox frames: 9-14
Type: edgeguarder, spacer
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 32
Extra information: none

UpB​

General info: Despite the vulnerability of it, I like the fact that it grabs. With a little improvement, I made this recovery move much better.
Animation description: He crouches for a brief moment and after the first 2 (large) grab frames end, he jumps in the air, his right arm’s fist extended upwards (same animation as his first jump). After the attack ends, he doesn’t spin the fall like now, instead, he just falls.
Range: First 2 frames: same range as ForwardTilt
______Other frames: from his waist to the elbow of his extended right arm
Damage: 17% (7% if interrupted)
Knockback: med/high
Stun time: med
Trajectory: East/West
Powershield eat: none, N/A (grab)
Powershield knockback: none, N/A (grab)
Total frames: 29 (enters fall animation starting on 30)
Hitboxes: waist, chest, shoulder, upper arm, elbow
Hitbox frames: 9-29
Type: recovery; can be used as a finisher at med-high%
Recovery speed: 20 frames, 10 if LC
IASA: 49 (39 LC)
Extra information: This is still a grab. Can sweetspot the ledge now. Doesn’t give an opponent his midair jump back anymore. Choose direction by frame 8. If Ganondorf is hit during the first 7 frames, he will not flinch.

DownB​

General info: Same basic animation as his current DownB, but I added two different variants depending on whether or not you press B once or twice quickly (i.e., like Fox and Falco’s SideB).

Windup DownB​

(Ground, Press B once)
Animation description: He pivots on his left leg, pulling his whole body behind his standing position (even father than CF’s SideB), then he lunges forward with his right leg extended.
Range: Covers a little more than half of YS in 12 frames (from the appearance of the first hitbox).
Damage: 17%
Knockback: high
Stun time: med/high
Trajectory: East/West
Powershield eat: med
Powershield knockback: very high (cannot be shield grabbed except by ranged grabbers)
Total frames: 47
Hitboxes: butt (extends pretty far behind it), leg, foot (extends pretty far beyond it)
Hitbox frames: 14-37
Type: finisher, fake-out punisher
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 48
Extra information: If Ganondorf gets hit during the first 7 frames, he will not flinch.

Fast DownB​

(Ground, Press B twice quickly)
Animation description: He immediately lunges forward with his right leg extended.
Range: Covers a little less than half of YS in 10 frames (from the appearance of the first hitbox).
Damage: 13%
Knockback: high
Stun time: med
Trajectory: East/West
Powershield eat: low/med
Powershield knockback: low/med
Total frames: 37
Hitboxes: butt (extends pretty far behind it), leg, foot (extends pretty far beyond it)
Hitbox frames: 8-27
Type: finisher, tech punisher
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 38
Extra information: To perform the fast DownB, you must hit B a second time by frame 7).

Aerial DownB​

(Air, Only 1 version of the attack in the air)
Animation description: he immediately lunges SouthEast/SouthWest (45° below the horizontal).
Range: Goes same distance as it does now in the air.
Damage: 15%
Knockback: In air: very high
__________Into ground: med/high
Stun time: very high
Trajectory: If hit in air: same direction Ganondorf goes with his Aerial DownB goes, SouthEast/SouthWest, (45° below the horizontal).
__________If hit while on the ground: Up
Powershield eat: low/med
Powershield knockback: med
Total frames: 37
Hitboxes: butt (extends fairly long behind and below it), waist, legs, foot (extends fairly long beyond foot)
Hitbox frames: 11-37
Type: meteor, recovery, combo starter, finisher setup
Recovery speed: 20 frames (10 frames LC)
IASA: 58 (48 LC)
Extra information: It is a meteor. I feel there should be no spikes in the game, just a few “almost impossible to cancel” meteors, like this one. It gives Ganondorf his midair jump back. The Aerial DownB can be used on grounded opponents much like his Dair, although the vertical knockback is much, much less than the Dair’s on grounded opponents, has a little more lag, and is harder to pull off. If Ganondorf is hit during the first 4 frames, he will not flinch.

SideB​

General info: Same basic animation as his current SideB, but I added two different variants depending on whether or not you press B once or twice quickly (i.e., like Fox and Falco’s SideB).

Windup SideB​

(Ground, Press B once)
Animation description: He pivots on his left leg, pulling his whole body behind his standing position (even father than CF’s SideB), then he lunges forward with a fist in his right hand, his right arm fully extended forward.
Range: Covers a little more than half of YS in 12 frames (from the appearance of the first hitbox).
Damage: 17%
Knockback: low/med
Stun time: high
Trajectory: North, NorthEast/NorthWest
Powershield eat: med
Powershield knockback: very high (cannot be shield grabbed except by ranged grabbers)
Total frames: 47
Hitboxes: head, fist, arm, upper body (when viewed sideways). When an opponent is above him, he thrusts his first high up to try and get them.
Hitbox frames: 14-37
Type: combo starter, finisher setup, fake-out punisher
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 48
Extra information: If Ganondorf gets hit during the first 7 frames, he will not flinch.

Fast SideB​

(Ground, Press B twice quickly)
Animation description: he immediately lunges forward with a fist in his right hand, his right arm fully extended forward. (Same animation as now except no windup).
Range: Covers a little less than half of YS in 10 frames (from the appearance of the first hitbox).
Damage: 13%
Knockback: low/med
Stun time: med/high
Trajectory: North, NorthEast/West
Powershield eat: low
Powershield knockback: med (can be shield grabbed by most, but not all, characters)
Total frames: 37
Hitboxes: head, fist, arm, upper body. When an opponent is above him, he thrusts his first high up to try and get them.
Hitbox frames: 8-27
Type: combo starter, finisher set up, tech punisher
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 38
Extra information: To perform the fast SideB, you must hit B a second time by frame 7).

Aerial SideB​

(Air, Only 1 version of the attack in the air)
Animation description: he immediately lunges horizontally with his first out in front (same animation as Aerial SideB now). If he comes into contact with an opponent, he punches down in the air but keeps going forward (like Falco’s SideB).
Range: Covers the same distance as CF’s Aerial SideB. Hitbox goes from his fist to his waist.
Damage: 15%
Knockback: If hit in the air: high
__________If hit while on ground: med
Stun time: med/high
Trajectory: If in air: South (like Falco’s SideB)
__________If on ground: North
Powershield eat: low/med
Powershield knockback: low/med
Total frames: 37
Hitboxes: head, extended right arm, fist, waist, chest
Hitbox frames: 11-37
Type: meteor, recovery, combo starter, finisher setup
Recovery speed: 20 frames (10 frames LC)
IASA: 58 (48 LC)
Extra information: It is a meteor, but hard to cancel. The Aerial SideB can be used on grounded opponents much like his Dair, although the vertical knockback is much, much less that the Dair’s on grounded opponents, has a little more lag, and is harder to pull off. In addition, it can sweetspot the ledge and goes through opponents without stopping (like Falco’s SideB). If Ganondorf is hit during the first 4 frames, he will not flinch.

Neutral B​

General description: OMG, a useful Neutral B! Get this... his OoT cape! This attack will have deflect all projectiles but doesn’t protect against regular attacks.
Animation description: exactly in OoT fashion, Ganondorf grabs his cape and pulls it in front of him, reflecting any projectiles used on him. He will even make the same “teuh” sound that he does in OoT when he protects himself with his cape.
Range: Hitbox barely extends past his cape in front of him and his back behind him, thus requiring that it’s timed properly. It extends from his head to his feet. So, while it protects his whole body, the hitboxes do not protrude too far out and it must be timed properly.
Damage: depends on the projectile reflected
Knockback: depends on reflected projectile
Stun time: depends on reflected projectile
Trajectory: see knockback
Powershield eat: depends on reflected projectile
Powershield knockback: depends on reflected projectile
Total frames: 20
Hitboxes: Whole body
Hitbox frames: 5-16
Type: defensive move
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 21
Extra information: This isn’t cheap. If it also protected against regular attacks with the same frame data and IASA, THEN it would be cheap.

UpSmash​

General description: If it weren’t for the high startup lag or the low range, Ganondorf’s UpSmash would be excellent. The crotch shot is as powerful as Marth’s tipper at like med% and even more so at high%. The UpSmash is also fairly strong. As it is, it’s just too hard to land on someone, although using it as a lure does work pretty well.
Animation description: same animation as now, he kicks up twice in the air, same “teuh” sound as well.
Range: Crotch hitbox: Extends from his crotch to his thighs. Same reach as half of his ForwardTilt.
______UpSmash: Extends from his calves to above his feet. His feet can reach just above DL64's bottom platforms.
Damage: Crotch shot: 24%
________UpSmash: 22%
Knockback: Crotch shot: very high
__________UpSmash: high/veryhigh
Stun time: med/high
Trajectory: Crotch shot: East/West
__________UpSmash: North
Powershield eat: Crotch shot: high
______________UpSmash: med/high
Powershield knockback: Crotch shot: very high (cannot be shield grabbed except by ranged grabbers)
____________________UpSmash: low/med
Total frames: 37
Hitboxes: calves, thighs, crotch
Hitbox frames: 11-14, 19-22
Type: finisher, (tech)punisher
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 38
Extra information: The move can no longer double hit opponents.

DownSmash​

General description: If you actually manage to land his DownSmash, and your opponent gets hit by both kicks, it is a great move. Once again, the only problem with this smash like his UpSmash is that it’s very difficult to land.
Animation description: He pivots on his left leg as he kicks his right foot in front of him, then behind him. In addition, when he kicks forwards, he punches backwards with his right arm; when he kicks backwards, he punches forwards with his right arm.
Range: Kicks: same range as his ForwardTilt
Punches: 3/4 the range of his ForwardTilt
Damage: First kick/punch: 10%
Second kick/punch: 12%
Knockback: First kick/punch: none (set knockback, ALWAYS brings the opponent to the second kick/punch)
__________Second kick/punch: low/med
Stun time: very high
Trajectory: North, NorthEast/NorthWest (in front of Ganondorf’s face)
Powershield eat: low
Powershield knockback: med
Total frames: 42
Hitboxes: both legs, both feet, both arms
Hitbox frames: 11-14, 19-22
Type: combo starter, finisher setup, (tech)punisher
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 43
Extra information: If the first kick/punch connects, then the second kick/punch will ALWAYS hit, regardless of the opponent’s character or percentage.

SideSmash​

General description: Once again, this smash is too difficult to land.
Animation description: He pivots on his left leg, bringing his whole body back (further back than CF’s SideB) then viciously thrusts his body forward with his elbow out.
Range: Same as Samus’ SideSmash
Damage: 22%
Knockback: very high
Stun time: high
Trajectory: North, NorthEast/West
Powershield eat: med
Powershield knockback: very high (cannot be shield grabbed except by ranged grabbers)
Total frames: 46
Hitboxes: waist, chest, elbow
Hitbox frames: 11-16
Type: finisher, (tech)punisher
Recovery speed: N/A
IASA: 47
Extra information: none

Nair​

General description: While Falcon’s Nair is great for combos and approaching, Ganondorf’s is not. Both of their Nairs’ animation frame times are exactly the same, so why are they so different? Because the programmers made both of his Nair kicks last ONLY 2 frames, while CF’s lasts 6 and 11 respectively. Why would they do this? I don’t know.
Animation description: Same as now, he kicks first with one leg, then the other.
Range: Same as now (the range is pretty good, farther than CF’s even)
Damage: 6% per kick (12% total)
Knockback: First kick: none (set knockback)
__________Second kick: med
Stun time: med
Trajectory: East/West
Powershield eat: very low per kick (low if both connect)
Powershield knockback: none
Total frames: 30
Hitboxes: both legs, both feet, waist
Hitbox frames: 5-10, 15-26
Type: comboer, approacher
Recovery speed: 18 frames (9 frames LC)
IASA: 48 (39 LC)
Extra information: The first kick does not always lead into the second kick (although it does so a lot of the time).

Dair​

General description: Ahh, the infamous stomp...
Animation description: He crunches his body (like a spring) to prepare for the dreaded Dair. Then he suddenly stretches his body at a superluminal speed, destroying all those that stand in its way.
Range: Entire body, from well above his head to well below his feet. Horizontally, the hitbox is two Ganondorfs put together.
Damage: 22%
Knockback: In air: very high
__________On grounded opponent: high/very high
Stun time: very high
Trajectory: If hit in air: South, SouthEast/SouthWest
__________If hit on ground: North, NorthEast/NorthWest
Powershield eat: very high (can break full shields in 4 hits)
Powershield knockback: med
Total frames: 30
Hitboxes: Entire, freakin’, body, and then some
Hitbox frames: 13-18
Type: comboer, finisher setup, meteor
Recovery speed: 24 frames (12 frames LC)
IASA: 54 (42 LC)
Extra information: none

Fair​

General description: Ahh, the infamous fist o’ death...
Animation description: he pulls back his fisted right hand to prepare for a skull crushing blow, then he violently swings his first forward. The hitbox starts above his head then moves below his body (can more easily hit sweetspotters).
Range: From his waist to well beyond his fist.
Damage: 18%
Knockback: very high
Stun time: high
Trajectory: If hit by his arm/fist: East/West in front of Ganondorf
__________If hit by his waist: East/West behind Ganondorf
Powershield eat: med
Powershield knockback: low/med
Total frames: 26
Hitboxes: waist, arm, fist (very large on fist)
Hitbox frames: 11-16
Type: finisher, approacher
Recovery speed: 20 frames (10 frames LC)
IASA: 46 (36 LC)
Extra information: none

Bair​

General description: Ahh, the ol’ reliable and quick Bair...
Animation description: With his left arm, he turns sideways and puches backwards, angling the punch downwards as well (can hit sweetspotters).
Range: From his chest to beyond his extended arm.
Damage: 16%
Knockback: high/very high
Stun time: high
Trajectory: If hit by his arm/fist: East/West behind Ganondorf
__________If hit by his chest: East/West in front of Ganondorf
Powershield eat: med
Powershield knockback: low/med
Total frames: 20
Hitboxes: waist, arm, fist (very large on fist)
Hitbox frames: 7-14
Type: finisher
Recovery speed: 16 frames (8 LC)
IASA: 37 frames (29 frames LC)
Extra information: Just a quick, powerful move.

Uair​

General description: Only rival to Fox’s shine edgeguard
Animation description: he bends his upper torso under him and pulls both his legs in an arc, with his left leg doing the actual attack and his right leg following 90° behind. The attack starts and ends at 45° below the horizontal, covering a total of 270°.
Range: From his waist to well beyond his fist.
Damage: 14%
Knockback: Reverse Uair: med/high
__________Uair: high
Stun time: Reverse Uair: high/very high
_________Uair: med/high
Trajectory: Reverse Uair: SouthEast/SouthWest
__________Uair: East/West
Powershield eat: very low
Powershield knockback: none
Total frames: 20
Hitboxes: crotch, leg, foot (extends pretty far beyond foot)
Hitbox frames: 5-16
Type: edgeguarder
Recovery speed: 14 frames (7 LC)
IASA: 34 (27 LC)
Extra information: The Reverse Uair starts when his leg is upright facing North. The Uair is the only rival to the shine spike.

Final smash​

Ganondorf yells at the top of his lungs, brandishes a sword that has appeared from nowhere, and goes medieval on everyone’s @$$.

Taunts​

Only one taunt for most characters?... lame! Which is why I say every character should have four taunts (each direction on D-Pad). If Sakurai can come up with 4 more for each character (each direction on D-Pad and also which way the character is facing) then kudos. For Ganondorf, I could only come up with 4 good ones.

TauntUp​

Current taunt. Ganondorf spins, floating in the air, and makes the most insulting laugh and face ever.
Total frames: 100

TauntDown​

Ganondorf puts his hands on his hips and just shouts a loud “Ha” laugh.
Total frames: 60

TauntLeft​

Ganondorf folds his arms and turns his head to the side as he grunts “Hmmph” (this is Fox’s taunt from SSB64).
Total frames: 60

TauntRight​

Ganondorf grunts a “Hmmph” as he gives a Roman military salute and then shouts a loud “Ha” as he displays the Triforce of Power on the back of his hand.
Total frames: 100

PROS/CONS to Ganondorf with my proposed moveset

PROS​

--Ganondorf's Up and Down Throws can lead into all of his other moves at certain% and depending on if/how an opponent DI's
--Thanks to his larger Grab, better Fox Trot, faster Running speed, and better DashDance, he can tech chase and tech punish opponents better, as well as CG more efficiently
--Ganondorf has a perfect balance between:
(1) relatively weak combo/finisher setup moves,
(2) powerful/semi-powerful finishers,
(3) fake-out/punisher moves,
(4) edgeguarders, and
(5) quick moves
Which makes him the ultimate (though precise) combo king
--Thanks to his very tall stature (long legs and arms) and buff body, his attacks generally have great reach

CONS:​

--His tall stature (long legs and arms) and buff body is a double-edged sword. Though it gives him great overall reach, it also makes him a bigger target.
--His walking/running speed is still relatively small (compared to most current higher-tier characters)
--His heavy weight and relatively fast falling speed means he can still be comboed by good opponents
--His UpB is still pretty vulnerable to edgeguards and his recovery (i.e. DownB, jump, UpB) is still pretty predictable

Combos/Finishers​

--At certain%, he can always KO an opponent from either his UpThrow or DownThrow (with no escape for the opponent). E.g., UpThrow/DownThrow into his Fair, Bair, DownB, et cetera
--Now that his DownTilt comes out faster, lasts twice as long, and is weaker, you can DownTilt an opponent into any one of his aerials
--Now with his improved UpTilt, he can juggle opponents at low% and he can UpTilt opponents into any of his aerials
--Dair'ing a grounded opponent gives them extreme stun time, which gives him the ability to Dair the opponent again, grab them at low%, and smash/aerial attack them at med-high%
--His DownSmash, Aerial DownB, and SideB attacks all give relatively high stun times to opponents, pretty high damage, come out pretty fast, and are weaker now than in Melee, which make them perfect moves to start a combo or lead into a finisher at med-high%

Vagrant Lustoid's Proposed Moveset for Ganondorf​

Whew, what a long post. Please, respond with any suggestions/criticisms/thoughts.

Whew, my first update.

My last update, namely, asking an admin that the threads be merged. Specifically, I asked that mine be merged into the original. chaos_Leader... lead the way! lol.

Someone doesn't have a life!

 

[IsmaR]

Someone doesn't have a life!

So you quoted yourself?

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

So you quoted yourself?

lol. pwnage

 

[IsmaR]

As much as I want Mewtwo to win, I support Ganondorf more.. Vote for him here!
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=125751&page=231

 

[HollabackRyu]

So you quoted yourself?

what a stupid response

 

[Soluble Toast]

I seriously hope he doesn't keep his melee move set. I hated it. It didn't reflect his character.
He has more than enough moves from many Zelda games to create an original move set.

Above all else he needs a chargeable energy orb. He uses it in some form in every game he has appeared in.( Ganondorf in OOT, Puppet Ganon in WW, Puppet Zelda in TP) It's possibly his signature move.

I don't care too much about his A Moves, but his B moves ALL need revamped to reflect his character.

I also hope he's kept as a Melee fighter. Although Ganondorf uses a sword in most of his incarnations, being a melee fighter separates him from a lot of fighters.

 

[Devastlian]

I also hope he's kept as a Melee fighter. Although Ganondorf uses a sword in most of his incarnations, being a melee fighter separates him from a lot of fighters.

How exactly? There're sixteen 'melee' fighters and six weapon users. They'd just be adding to the majority.

 

[maxieman]

vB should definately be drawing/sheathing his sword. My Dream Brawl Character (who i created) has this ability and it would be a uniqe and fun aspect of Ganandorf

 

[Cyberbot5000]

It would be nifty if Ganondorf had a way of switching between Magic and sword movesets

As for story mode I hope they make him resistant to the Ancient Minister as he always been selfish and ruthless and he shouldnt take orders from anybody, I wonder who he teams up with (assuming he doesnt go solo)

 

[gangstajuice02]

gannondorf is the best veteran character around!! if he comes back i hope he comes back with his sword!!

 

[Deception]

While I appreciate your support of Ganondorf, Gangsta, try to contribute to the thread when posting.

Anyways, here is my idea for Ganon's involvement in the Subspace Emissary.

Link has left Hyrule in search of Zelda. When he reaches Yoshi's Island, he sees some of of Ganon's minions torturing the locals and Ganondorf himself. Ganon baits Link and disappears. Yoshi joins Link and the two fight through the level.

*Insert cutscenes*

The two find Ganon. They are about to fight when Ganon is unwillingly beamed up into the Halberd that has just appeared. The Ancient Minister wants Ganon to join but he refuses. He attempts to beat up the Minister when Wario turns him into a trophy.

*Link and Yoshi get to the ship*

Link and Yoshi defeat Wario and break his gun. Zelda is freed, but so is Ganon. You fight him and unlock him after you win. Link, Zelda, and Yoshi beat the Ancient Ministerand save the world.

Obviously, the plot will be larger in the actual game if the rumor about it taking 10 hours to beat is true, but this is just a general plot.

 

[UsernameLink]

vote ganondorf! http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=125751&page=238