-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!
- Thread starter DtJ Jungle
- Start date
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
I've been meaning to get some information on FoD, but the mood never strikes me. The platforms appear to move to set heights perfectly, though there are ~6 of them. As I said, I haven't done any testing; I would expect to find 2 patterns, though either or both could be wrong. I would expect to see that the platforms alternate moving, and I would expect a semi-random timer for when they will change (semi-random meaning that it happens approximately every t seconds, give or take). There doesn't appear to be a way to predict the next height that will be coming nor when precisely it will happen.
Bones0
Smash Legend
From my experiment, it actually seemed based on where I stood. My very first trial (I only did 3), I did the Name Entry Glitch so I only had one character, and I rolled to the left edge immediately then stood still. I don't remember the exact pattern, but I remember it was a very obvious pattern that did not seem random at all. I remember the left platform moving up and down while the right platform didn't move AT ALL for like 2+ minutes. The trippy thing is a different trial I did the exact same thing, and there was a subtle pattern, but not at all like the first. Both platforms were changing heights.
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
If you do the same thing but receive different results, that means that there is no pattern. As contrast, take brinstar for example. If you watch the acid, it always goes up down up down, etc. It also goes high down low down high down low down etc. That is a pattern. The specific height and exact time it moves varies slightly, but it always follows that order. The platforms on FoD have no determinant for whether they will move up or down, which platform will move, and possibly not when they will move either.
I find it weird that the platforms don't alternate moving, but I am not really surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire thing is completely random, really. FoD is the worst stage in melee
I find it weird that the platforms don't alternate moving, but I am not really surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire thing is completely random, really. FoD is the worst stage in melee
Bones0
Smash Legend
You do realize that if it's completely random, it'd be ridiculously coincidental for me to perform a 2-minute trial where the left plat moves 20+ times and the right never moves...If you do the same thing but receive different results, that means that there is no pattern. As contrast, take brinstar for example. If you watch the acid, it always goes up down up down, etc. It also goes high down low down high down low down etc. That is a pattern. The specific height and exact time it moves varies slightly, but it always follows that order. The platforms on FoD have no determinant for whether they will move up or down, which platform will move, and possibly not when they will move either.
I find it weird that the platforms don't alternate moving, but I am not really surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire thing is completely random, really. FoD is the worst stage in melee
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Probability states that it is possible that happened completely randomly, and that fact that you cannot repeat the scenario further proves there is no pattern. I do not understand what you are trying to assert; I am only judging your data logically.
Bones0
Smash Legend
You are vastly underestimating how unlikely it is for one plat to stay still the entire time. If there were ~20 plat movements, that's like flipping a coin and getting heads 20 times in a row... The fact that I couldn't repeat it doesn't prove there is no pattern. It just suggests there is a random element to the pattern that we aren't aware of. If I had done a hundred-some trials, perhaps your argument that I just got lucky would be more convincing.
Xyzz
Smash Champion
Let's just say that FoD platforms are weird 
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
But Bones, you simply don't have enough data to make any statement like that. The conclusion you are trying to assert doesn't follow from the data you have observed.
Nor do you (Sveet) have enough data to prove that it is truly random or that there is no pattern. At least none that you've provided. While it is certainly logical that the platforms could be random or that there is no pattern, it is not the only possibility. A possibility that would fit with Bones' data is that the stage has a number of patterns chosen randomly, and they're possibly based on the position of the character(s), or perhaps only one of them is, such that Bones ended up in a scenario where only one platform moved for 2 minutes. All in all, neither of you have the data to prove anything and can only truthfully say you have little to no idea how the platforms work.
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Which is all i've ever claimed anyways
Bones0
Smash Legend
tekkie
Smash Master
I have a question about how jumping/air attacks work in Melee vs. Brawl.
In Brawl, rolling my thumb from Y to A almost instantaneously is how I naturally do rising air attacks, but doing the same thing in Melee doesn't work. Does anyone know why that might be the case? How soon after inputting a jump can one input an attack?
In Brawl, rolling my thumb from Y to A almost instantaneously is how I naturally do rising air attacks, but doing the same thing in Melee doesn't work. Does anyone know why that might be the case? How soon after inputting a jump can one input an attack?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
barwl has superforgiving buffering, melee does not.
If you input your aerial during the jumpsquat frames there will be no aerial for you. So the frame you start being airborne is the very first frame you can hit "A" and see something happening in response to the button press. (in case somebody reads this and would miss the obvious implication: It's pretty much the same thing as doing a wavedash, just instead of an airdodge, there's an attack input )
If you input your aerial during the jumpsquat frames there will be no aerial for you. So the frame you start being airborne is the very first frame you can hit "A" and see something happening in response to the button press. (in case somebody reads this and would miss the obvious implication: It's pretty much the same thing as doing a wavedash, just instead of an airdodge, there's an attack input
)Puca Readabook
Smash Apprentice
What if Sakurai didn't slave over Melee's development and instead made it ****ty like Brawl, he would possibly put more effort into making a better engine for Brawl, (but still be a little lazy so he doesn't fix tech exploits)
That way Snake and Sonic players would be happy and melee players wouldn't have to play Floaty Tripping Brothers: Party Play
That way Snake and Sonic players would be happy and melee players wouldn't have to play Floaty Tripping Brothers: Party Play
tekkie
Smash Master
i poked around the frame data for peach/fox but neither seemed to have jump/jumpsquat frame data. is that available anywhere?
is there more information somewhere about melee's buffering, if there is any?
is there more information somewhere about melee's buffering, if there is any?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html has jump squat data. buffering is spread around the forums. If you ask specifics you'll probably get answers, but there sadly isn't any comprehensive list (I suppose it's worth mentioning that all c stick inputs in conjunction with shield buffer (spot dodge, rolls, jump) and the control stick buffers for three frames in general).
a) the engine isn't the problem with the third ssb game. The problems for some people (including me), are the design choices regarding gameplay.
b) You don't have to play floaty tripping brothers, luckily
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
The brawl engine is really awful, tho, for real.
tekkie
Smash Master
cool, let's turn my insightful question into another mindless bashing thread
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
What frame data are you looking at? If you google "SDM Frame Data" you will find SuperDoodleMan's lists. There are some things in there that need to be double checked, but for the most part its accurate.
To answer your question, Peach is airborne on frame 6 and Fox is airborne frame 4.
Bones0
Smash Legend
M2K's "SSBM Statistics List" has jump frame data and other similar stuff.
The only buffering stuff I know about seems to all be 3 frames. Rolling, spotdodging, and jumping OoS with the control stick are all 3 frames, and then I think FF buffers for 3 frames as well (maybe 2, I always forget for FFing). Shield dropping is also at least close to 3 frames, but it's a bit more complex. I think Shai dropping's buffer is explained in Shai's original thread about Shai dropping, so just search for his thread (his username is "Shai Hulud"). Fsmash can't really be buffered, but pressing A or the C-stick left/right during the first 3 frames of your dash animation will still let you fsmash.
The only buffering stuff I know about seems to all be 3 frames. Rolling, spotdodging, and jumping OoS with the control stick are all 3 frames, and then I think FF buffers for 3 frames as well (maybe 2, I always forget for FFing). Shield dropping is also at least close to 3 frames, but it's a bit more complex. I think Shai dropping's buffer is explained in Shai's original thread about Shai dropping, so just search for his thread (his username is "Shai Hulud"). Fsmash can't really be buffered, but pressing A or the C-stick left/right during the first 3 frames of your dash animation will still let you fsmash.
john!
Smash Hero
i'm 90% sure spotdodging happens on frame 2
peach can grab you out of buffered roll (frame 4) but not out of buffered spotdodge
peach can grab you out of buffered roll (frame 4) but not out of buffered spotdodge
Bones0
Smash Legend
i'm 90% sure spotdodging happens on frame 2
peach can grab you out of buffered roll (frame 4) but not out of buffered spotdodge
Wrong thread? lol
john!
Smash Hero
you just said that stuff happened on frame 3, and i don't think that's right
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
John didnt read the question
john!
Smash Hero
you mean tekkie's question?
i wasn't trying to answer his question, i just posted because i didn't think bones' frame data was quite right.
i wasn't trying to answer his question, i just posted because i didn't think bones' frame data was quite right.
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
spotdodges are invincible on frame 2. rolls are invincible on frame 4.
john!
Smash Hero
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
If you dont know what youre talking about, don't act like you do. Its hard enough to get information out to newbs without some guy with 7,5k posts and 06 join date spitting wrong facts.
john!
Smash Hero
what did i say that was incorrect?
if you're trying to troll then you're doing it wrong...
Bones0
Smash Legend
Nothing you said was wrong (though saying spotdodging "happens" on frame 2 is kind of misleading"), but we were talking about how long stick inputs buffer for, not how quickly rolls and spotdodges get invincibility. If you press the stick down 3 frames before your character is able to spotdodge (because of shield stun or w/e), you will buffer a spotdodge.
john!
Smash Hero
ah, gotcha. i thought you were talking about buffering them with the c-stick. i wasn't really able to tell with the way the post was worded.
HEY TEKKIE PLEASE IGNORE EVERYTHING I'VE SAID IN THIS THREAD
and sveet... next time don't be a douche and just
HEY TEKKIE PLEASE IGNORE EVERYTHING I'VE SAID IN THIS THREAD
and sveet... next time don't be a douche and just
Puca Readabook
Smash Apprentice
if im falco and im on a stage like BF or Yoshi's Island and im on one of the 2 lower platforms, do i always have to shinestall to be able to shorthop waveland onto the top platform?
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Say what?
Puca Readabook
Smash Apprentice
Scenario: Im using falco and im on battlefield.
Platforms:
_--_ im standing on one of the lower platforms.
Im trying Shorthop>Waveland into the top platform. is this possible, or must i Shorthop>ShineJC>Waveland?
Platforms:
_--_ im standing on one of the lower platforms.
Im trying Shorthop>Waveland into the top platform. is this possible, or must i Shorthop>ShineJC>Waveland?
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
No you cannot. You can't shorthop onto them, therefore you can't waveland onto them (from a shorthop).
Puca Readabook
Smash Apprentice
what would be the best way to approach the top platform then?
Bones0
Smash Legend
First of all, you don't have to shine stall between a SH and DJ WL. You can always just SH DJ WL. lol For the main question you're asking, it depends a lot on the situation. If you are mid-combo, you may want to run off and DJ from below with an attack. If they just missed a tech, you may want to SH below the top plat with a shine stall until they do something and then react. Or you may want to FH above them and wait it out that way. I recommend watching videos to see how top Falcos navigate to the top plat in certain situations and do your best to emulate it. That's the fastest way to learn most things. I'd also recommend asking Falco-specific stuff in the Falco Discussion Thread (in the Character Specific forums).
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Well I think that gets a bit beyond the scope of this thread and maybe a bit more into something the Falco boards can cover. Feel free to PM me or contact me via AIM or Skype (SveetX on everything) if you want to talk 1 on 1
Puca Readabook
Smash Apprentice
:3 :D:D:D:D