Important Official Custom Moveset Project

[Splash Damage]

Guys, isn't this where you should be discussing Little Mac's custom moves? It feels like half of this thread (and the previous CMP thread) is just filled with discussion on Little Mac.

It sort of just happened. We didnt really intend to have the conversation, the conversation just had us.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

I have a question that's more or less outside of EVO: the first moveset shown in each custom set is considered the best one in all situations for that specific character? And which characters' default movesets are considered superior than the custom movesets?

 

[vegeta18]

hey guys, i have a friend with all of the customs unlocked on his wiiU. Can i do this to get them unlocked on mine as well? would it affect my mewtwo dlc at all even though he is unlocked on both of the consoles.

http://en-americas-support.nintendo...o-transfer-content-between-two-wii-u-consoles

 

[Ansou]

hey guys, i have a friend with all of the customs unlocked on his wiiU. Can i do this to get them unlocked on mine as well? would it affect my mewtwo dlc at all even though he is unlocked on both of the consoles.

http://en-americas-support.nintendo...o-transfer-content-between-two-wii-u-consoles

I'm pretty sure this is not something you want to do. System transfer is kinda for transferring the whole system memory to a new console and at least on 3DS it erases all the data on the source system.

 

[vegeta18]

ahh yeah that makes sense, i started to think that was the case but i couldnt figure out what happens with the source system. No probs, ill just stop being lazy and unlock em myself then lol

 

[Splash Damage]

I have a question that's more or less outside of EVO: the first moveset shown in each custom set is considered the best one in all situations for that specific character? And which characters' default movesets are considered superior than the custom movesets?

1.Yes, for the most part. Most of the threads decided to try and accomplish this, though it's not unanimous.
2.Mainly [and apparently ]. Most characters have at least 1 straight upgrade custom and a main/top set to reflect that, like and both with 2111.

 

[ROOOOY!]

^ throw Sonic in with the characters whose best set is 1111, especially with burning spindash nerfed post patch.

Inb4 hammer spindash is da bess

 

[NickRiddle]

hey guys, i have a friend with all of the customs unlocked on his wiiU. Can i do this to get them unlocked on mine as well? would it affect my mewtwo dlc at all even though he is unlocked on both of the consoles.

http://en-americas-support.nintendo...o-transfer-content-between-two-wii-u-consoles

Make all of the EVO presets (takes 3.5 hours roughly)
Transfer them all to a 3DS (takes 15 minutes roughly)
Transfer the 3DS ones onto every Wii U that needs them (takes 15 minutes each roughly)

No need to unlock them, unless you want to play around with other sets.

 

[vegeta18]

but once sets are transferred from wiiU to 3ds, are you allowed to transfer those? I thought you could only transfer the ones that you`ve unlocked and created on your own system

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

1.Yes, for the most part. Most of the threads decided to try and accomplish this, though it's not unanimous.
2.Mainly [and apparently ]. Most characters have at least 1 straight upgrade custom and a main/top set to reflect that, like and both with 2111.

Thanks for the information .

 

[NickRiddle]

but once sets are transferred from wiiU to 3ds, are you allowed to transfer those? I thought you could only transfer the ones that you`ve unlocked and created on your own system

You can re-transfer sets.

 

[John12346]

but once sets are transferred from wiiU to 3ds, are you allowed to transfer those? I thought you could only transfer the ones that you`ve unlocked and created on your own system

An easy way to remember this is, "You can't transfer a transferred set."

Edit: @ Nick, I'm almost 100% sure you can't. I'll recheck to make sure, but...

 

[NickRiddle]

Wait... you can't?

That's just... stupid...

 

[Splash Damage]

Wait... you can't?

That's just... stupid...

Welp.
All hail the one guy who has a fully unlocked 3DS then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Jaxas]

Make all of the EVO presets (takes 3.5 hours roughly)
Transfer them all to a 3DS (takes 15 minutes roughly)
Transfer the 3DS ones onto every Wii U that needs them (takes 15 minutes each roughly)

No need to unlock them, unless you want to play around with other sets.

but once sets are transferred from wiiU to 3ds, are you allowed to transfer those? I thought you could only transfer the ones that you`ve unlocked and created on your own system

Unfortunately you cannot transfer transfered custom loadouts.

No idea why Nintendo felt the need to make it like that, but...

Edit: 'd

 

[NickRiddle]

This is dumb...
Power Save OP

 

[Splash Damage]

This is dumb...
Power Save OP

Dunno, maybe it's because of technical limitations? The 3DS isn't very strong as it is, maybe transfers of numerous equipment pieces and customs secondhand would be too much for its feeble self.

 

[NickRiddle]

Dunno, maybe it's because of technical limitations? The 3DS isn't very strong as it is, maybe transfers of numerous equipment pieces and customs secondhand would be too much for its feeble self.

No, it's a game limitation... otherwise you could transfer 3DS > Wii U > Other 3DS which you apparently can't.

 

[Teshie U]

Its strange. I guess they honestly didn't want people to circumvent the unlock process by just knowing someone who knows someone that has things unlocked.

I'm sure someone developing that portion of the game thought it would betray the spirit of unlockables.

Honestly having refs with fully unlocked 3DS units handy is more convenient than fully unlocked consoles at times.

 

[digiholic]

It's so you can't transfer to the same system. The idea of the transfer system is to make it possible to play your sets on both of your own consoles, not so you can play your set on every one else's console.

Pretty sure it's in for exactly the same reason we have to unlock the moves in the first place, Nintendo wants us playing longer to unlock everything.

 

[Unknownkid]

There is something that have been concerning me. I was going to post this before but I didn't want to interrupt the Little Mac Discussion.

With the official release of Mewtwo, he still lack custom moves. Once Lucas is released and both Mewtwo & Lucas lack custom moves, it is safe to said that DLC character do not obtain Custom Moves. So here lies the problem... this add another bullet/reason to our fellow brethren who are against customs. A sense of unfairness that the DLC character lack variety compared to the original cast.

What are you guys thoughts on this? It will be sad this project to be discard after some much work gotten into it to produce this masterpiece.

 

[Splash Damage]

There is something that have been concerning me. I was going to post this before but I didn't want to interrupt the Little Mac Discussion.

With the official release of Mewtwo, he still lack custom moves. Once Lucas is released and both Mewtwo & Lucas lack custom moves, it is safe to said that DLC character do not obtain Custom Moves. So here lies the problem... this add another bullet/reason to our fellow brethren who are against customs. A sense of unfairness that the DLC character lack variety compared to the original cast.

What are you guys thoughts on this? It will be sad this project to be discard after some much work gotten into it to produce this masterpiece.

At this point, most arguments against customs are rather petty, like unlock time and MU practice. A character not having custom moves is far from the end of the world for that character, and they can still be viable. Not too much of a concern, and the argument against it can be easily disproven.

 

[Unknownkid]

At this point, most arguments against customs are rather petty, like unlock time and MU practice. A character not having custom moves is far from the end of the world for that character, and they can still be viable. Not too much of a concern, and the argument against it can be easily disproven.

I don't know man. This Mod rants says otherwise -
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...neral-discussion.370875/page-17#post-19052389

 

[Splash Damage]

I don't know man. The Mod rants says otherwise -
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...neral-discussion.370875/page-17#post-19052389

Most of that rant he made seems very one-sided and salt driven. The characters he brought up aren't even too spectacular with customs, just gimmicky and very beatable. Like Marth's grab release he brought up. I'm fairly certain grab-release up-B doesn't even work on a majority of the cast anyway, and having a "guaranteed" kill off a grab at 70% is absolutely nothing compared to the Wobble or Hoo-Hah. That, and if the jank and gimmicks he mentioned were so common, people at the venue(Including himself) should be labbing against it. Being too quick to complain reminds me a lot of the first few days of Smash 4. Remember when Little Mac and DHD were "Overpowered?" And how it got Mac needlessly nerfed? The person who made the "How to deal with Wind Kong" video said it best, "Stop using your Johns and start using your smarts."

 

[Unknownkid]

Most of that rant he made seems very one-sided and salt driven. The characters he brought up aren't even too spectacular with customs, just gimmicky and very beatable. Like Marth's grab release he brought up. I'm fairly certain grab-release up-B doesn't even work on a majority of the cast anyway, and having a "guaranteed" kill off a grab at 70% is absolutely nothing compared to the Wobble or Hoo-Hah. That, and if the jank and gimmicks he mentioned were so common, people at the venue(Including himself) should be labbing against it. Being too quick to complain reminds me a lot of the first few days of Smash 4. Remember when Little Mac and DHD were "Overpowered?" And how it got Mac needlessly nerfed? The person who made the "How to deal with Wind Kong" video said it best, "Stop using your Johns and start using your smarts."

Yeah, you are right. I remember those days about Little Mac and DHD. Those days were something...

 

[Thinkaman]

Today I learned that we live in some kind of bizzaro fantasyland where Diddy has good customs, Marth is broken, and the most abusive moves in the game are Mega Gunman, Scalding FLUDD, and Plant Barrier.

-----

This is why Smash will never be a truly competitive game.

Our clubhouse grassroots scene perpetuates a culture of johns.

Everyone is seeking only the superficial trappings of competition, but almost no one actually wants to compete.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

This is why Smash will never be a truly competitive game.

Our clubhouse grassroots scene perpetuates a culture of johns.

Everyone is seeking only the superficial trappings of competition, but almost no one actually wants to compete.

I know this post is somewhat exaggerated for humorous effect, but there's an element of truth in it that's just tied to the type of game that Smash is.

Most other fighting games have the luxury of being explicitly designed for competition out-of-the-box. Couple this with an arcade legacy that prevented any game tweaking on the user's end in the first place (as well as saddling the player with the risk of losing your quarter if you don't do everything you can to win), and what you end up with is a "default configuration is sacred; abuse the hell out of everything at your disposal" attitude among many communities. It's that kind of attitude that leads to things like 2-minute infinite combos being accepted as an unfortunate fact of life and never even considered for bans. (And I also think that attitude played a huge part in EVO's insistence on item usage during Brawl's run on their stage.)

Contrast that with Smash, which not only has different design goals from the outset, but from its inception has had community rules applied to it to strip out elements thought to be unfit for competition. While a lot of them are sensible, it's just going to also result in a greater frequency of people who would rather try to mold Smash into a game that better suits their personal taste than to learn and appreciate the game for that it actually is.

That's part of the reason I was so pleasantly surprised by the push towards customs usage in the first place. It's the only instance I'm aware of where the community took steps to add major elements to the default game instead of subtract from it.

 

[DunnoBro]

>Mega gunmen is broken because it shoots in 5 seconds

Wind kong/Villager is legitimately unfun to play against and might actually constitute a ban, I wholeheartedly understand why people might dislike customs entirely if they have to deal with that move and they're a certain character.

But the rest of that list is super scrub logic lmao I doubt half of that stuff has even happened in tournament and is mostly just a list of theoretical stuff he scrapped up to make the list seem bigger.

I'd be fine banning all or certain customs if people could refrain from finding meh/decent moves and making them out to be OP jank because they saw some youtube video showing how sub-optimal play that would never work at a high level can get you a janky kill.

 

[thehard]

*list of customs that I object to and explanations of how they work but no explanation of why that means they should be banned*

I see this **** all the time in multiplayer communities, it's getting old

 

[Thinkaman]

My post wasn't intended to be humorous or exaggerated; I thought I was being depressing as hell and a total Debbie Downer.

Parallel to that, I'm scared of sitting in a corner feeling half-smug half-bitter watching non-competitive people rejecting custom specials, contributing to a factional pro-customs circlejerk in which we lament said non-competitive plebs for playing a game we consider less competitive. If the irony of this flies over your head, you have no idea how envious I am.

-----

The only custom that seems worth having a debate over banning is Explosive Balloon Trip, under the specific criteria that the pseudo-infinite camping it allows is pseudo-incompatible with our time limit house rules, particularly at low level play.

Kong Cyclone is the next closest thing, because of how stupidly abuse it is to inexperienced players. But it's not really a problem. This conversation might be different if DK was already an A-tier character without it, but he's not so...

Then we've got merely great stuff like Luma Warp, Zig-Zag Shot, Dark Fists, and Jumbo Hoops, but it's really, really hard to take anyone who complains about these remotely seriously. What, with Boost Kick, Needles, and Monkey Flip in the game, to say nothing of Sheik fair, Luigi nair, Ness b-throw, Falcon/Mac jabs, MK uair->SL, and what-else existing.

------

People freak out when they see a move that makes them go "WTF."

This is, however, the entire point of a good move.

We have a word for "honest" characters with no WTF aspects that break rules and push limits: low-tier.

But in the case of customs, this happens:

This is the second most important image I have ever seen. It encapsulates perfectly the ultimate challenge of human thought: classifying our observations correctly so as to generate rational thought. If nothing else, anyone who comes out of this with a better understanding of this pattern of human behavior is a big win for rationality.

-----

At the end of the day, the super obvious proof that customs are legit has always been "If there was no unlocking, and we could just select them on the CSS and use them in For Glory, we wouldn't even be having this conversation." We're literally only talking about this stuff because of menu design.

It's not surprising; humanity has a long and bloody history of discriminating against far more for far less. (Hence, girls sucking at math) But if you give people a reason to adopt an irrational position, they will run with it.

The extreme and obvious example is slavery. If we grew up in a culture where slavery of some type was accepted, the vast majority of us would be varying degrees of okay with it. We certainly wouldn't be special snowflakes with temporally displaced perspectives who would lead the revolution, as much as we'd like to think so.

I'm not going to lie; if I lived in a society where it was socially acceptable and ordinary to want to ban Sonic, I would probably hold that position. Yes, it's irrational, stupid, and objectively wrong. I'm glad that I, living in this world without that pressure, know better. But I know myself and know my rational weaknesses, or at least some of them.

We see this in our universe with Miis. Some people think Miis are stupid characters and want to ban them, to an extent that this is an opinion you can actually hold without getting thrown out of a dinner party. (Unlike other characters) And no matter how much I disagree, I feel the gravity and emotional pull; part of my mind regards them as second class citizens. There's an alternate universe somewhere in which game characters are real and Miis are enslaved, to no objection of others or myself.

-----

I think the ultimate, long-long-term takeaway of all this is that competitive games require a comprehensive and enforced standard to ward off the corrosive effects of non-competitive johns on the environment. It certainly works for League of Legends.

And whoever says the words For Glory is getting stabbed.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Tell us how you really feel, Thinkaman.

On the real though, I was totally on-board with banning customs on the basis of "unlocks and menu design" at the start. But then Amazing Ampharos showed the world that those concerns were mostly trivial, and that was the end of that.

 

[DunnoBro]

Mm, I wouldn't say Kong Cyclone is only ab-useable vs inexperienced players. It's quite clearly on the same tier as brawl nado, so it is very polarizing. Boss, Chudat, Seagull, and plenty of others all find it infuriating to play against, punish, and deal with, even in friendlies. (even players who by large prefer customs)

Even as it is, I can't see DK overcoming his inherent weaknesses to accomplish more than top 8 at EVO. (And only because long-time high skill character loyalists like DKwill and Average Joe now have a high tier threat to work with.) But it's far and away the best special in the game.

Kong cyclone is the single most polarizing custom. With Villager only being an issue due to a combination of customs, and mii brawler due to sizes. It's not to the point I will advocate for bans, but I do hope we can get the point across to nintendo it's dumb and can get them nerfed. Cyclone overall is pretty buggy, the windboxes are awkward, the armor frames are inconsistent, and the counters to it are obtuse and the regular punishes aren't parallel in benefit to it's normal usage.

Hopefully, it at least gets tweaked to reflect bug fixes if not balance.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Mm, I wouldn't say Kong Cyclone is only ab-useable vs inexperienced players. It's quite clearly on the same tier as brawl nado, so it is very polarizing. Boss, Chudat, Seagull, and plenty of others all find it infuriating to play against, punish, and deal with, even in friendlies. (even players who by large prefer customs)

Even as it is, I can't see DK overcoming his inherent weaknesses to accomplish more than top 8 at EVO. (And only because long-time high skill character loyalists like DKwill and Average Joe now have a high tier threat to work with.) But it's far and away the best special in the game.

Kong cyclone is the single most polarizing custom. With Villager only being an issue due to a combination of customs, and mii brawler due to sizes. It's not to the point I will advocate for bans, but I do hope we can get the point across to nintendo it's dumb and can get them nerfed. Cyclone overall is pretty buggy, the windboxes are awkward, the armor frames are inconsistent, and the counters to it are obtuse and the regular punishes aren't parallel in benefit to it's normal usage.

Hopefully, it at least gets tweaked to reflect bug fixes if not balance.

I don't suppose anyone knows Japanese and is willing to tweet at Sakurai about this?

 

[Zzuxon]

You'd think modhood wouldn't be accessible to turboscrubs.

 

[DunnoBro]

I could do it but I think they'll probably just make their own decisions based on how EVO goes. Direct player input isn't regarded too highly.

 

[Splash Damage]

Mm, I wouldn't say Kong Cyclone is only ab-useable vs inexperienced players. It's quite clearly on the same tier as brawl nado, so it is very polarizing.

I don't think I'd go nearly as far as to compare the two, as Mach Tornado can be used to recover in much more dynamic and reliable ways, kill off the top when paired with MK's jumps and positioning options, apply safe shield pressure, gain unchallengeable stage control especially w/platforms, is near impossible to escape from or use against MK(Ex. Kong Cyclone was recently found to have a counter in sheik's Up-Air, I'm sure you've seen it), and can't backfire to almost any extent. That being said, Kong Cyclone is very polarizing and I wouldn't object to a nerf, and likely neither would anyone. That being said, counters for it and ways to fight it are being discovered and labbed every day, so it likely wont matter soon enough.

 

[Marrow]

Are there QR codes available with swordfighter/gunner sizes that can be edited? Not the sizes, of course, but the faces

 

[Splash Damage]

Are there QR codes available with swordfighter/gunner sizes that can be edited? Not the sizes, of course, but the faces

I believe they're not editable, though if you want to make a goofy Mii for you to practice with out of tournament then it's fine to be a notch or two off, won't make a noticeable difference.

 

[TheAnomaly]

People freak out when they see a move that makes them go "WTF."

This is, however, the entire point of a good move.

We have a word for "honest" characters with no WTF aspects that break rules and push limits: low-tier.

This is my exact argument every time someone brings up something against customs. I have yet to hear a logical response against it. I find as similar a move as I can from characters default moves and compare them and the only argument I ever hear is that "That is different. You can't compare them." with no logical explanation as to why I cannot compare them.

Using that method of determining how unfair a move may be I came to the conclusion that the only customs possible of warranting a ban or nerf would be trip sapling and heavy skull bash. I see no problem with explosive balloon trip because the main issue is the trip sapling else villager would die horrible horrible deaths for ignoring his lack of ledge invincibility on re-grab. Comparing the trip sapling to diddy's banana we have a move that cannot be abused by the enemy and also does 2% on trip and protects his ledge camp strategy. However because it isn't an item it also doesn't give Villager the item options diddy's banana gives him. The villager player however loses his killing axe and tree options there making this custom an argument for being a side grade in some situations.
Now comparing Pikachu's heavy skull bash to smash attacks, we have a move that hits ridiculously hard and is quite quick. We also have a move that quite possibly has one of the most horizontal knockbacks in the game for almost no charge time and only receives heavy punishes if the opponent shields. HSB beats most smash attacks in the game for sheer speed (no charge) and still kills at a decent %. It also beats most power attacks in the game for speed(the minimal amount of charge needed for it to hit hard is actually quite quick) and can be charged in the air as esam showed here against mvd(I am aware he was at the edge of the stage however I'm fairly certain he had the charge to kill him from anywhere on that stage). Therefore I think this move beats all similar attacks in the game in terms of speed and power and versatility and should be looked at when thinking of best customs.

 

[DunnoBro]

Heavy skull bash is more comparable to shoryuken to me honestly. It needs a hard read/punish at point blank. It's nowhere near the best custom imo. The dark fist kills around the same percentages, is way easier to hit/kill with since it has more relevant set-ups (oos option), and is about as punishable. I'd say dark fist is overall superior to HSB for offensive options.