Official BBR Tier List v5

[thrillagorilla]

Can someone please give me a legitamate answer as to why they think R.O.B. belongs in D tier, or are these just opinions?

 

[da K.I.D.]

Can someone please give me a legitamate answer as to why they think R.O.B. belongs in D tier, or are these just opinions?

because apparently we cant have a third of the cast in the same tier, even though theyre all on the same level of viability.

 

[z00ted]

yeah, we aren't specifically saying ROB belongs in D Tier, we are just claiming that ROB currently has not proven his worth compared to Sonic or Wolf.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Wolf should be above Fox and Fox should drop.

 

[z00ted]

^troll .

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Fox
Fox is a reasonably viable, though difficult to use, tournament character who can hold his own against several top tiers. Watching TKD's performances against other top players, many BBR members are of the opinion Fox was underrated and might still be, despite bad matchups against Sheik and Pikachu, which goes to show a few bad matchups don't completely invalidate a character. It can even be argued that most characters in the game, including top tiers, have matchups they rather wouldn't stay in against. That said, Fox' bad matchups are on the extreme side and time will tell if he can live up to his potential.

I've called the +4 as being unwarrented since day1.

 

[thrillagorilla]

because apparently we cant have a third of the cast in the same tier, even though theyre all on the same level of viability.

lol. Why people would think this is the case idk.

yeah, we aren't specifically saying ROB belongs in D Tier, we are just claiming that ROB currently has not proven his worth compared to Sonic or Wolf.

So... what about regional mains like t0mmy that go to nationals and do well? t0mmy wins against players like Felix in PAC NW on a semi-regular basis, and that right there is a top level player. Is it a crime that people like that can't travel to all the nationals and show what thier character can do? I understand what you are saying about Wolf and Sonic moving up, but there is no legitamate reason to bump a character down a tier simply because other characters have more national recognition. That being said, what WOULD be the problem with having more characters in a single tier?

 

[z00ted]

Yeah it actually is a crime that t0mmy can't travel and prove what his character is worth.

He can beat Felix all he wants (who honestly I haven't heard of do anything good since like some MLG tournament), he needs to attend more nationals, beat more high level players, and get better results throughout a wider spectrum.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The tier list is supposed to reflect what the metagame is like right now. If someone isn't able to travel to tournaments, but he's really, really good, then he isn't really affecting the metagame.

 

[-Mars-]

Zelda helps eliminate one of Sheiks bad matchups (Pikachu) and helps in a couple of others (DDD, ROB, Charizard).

So Sheik has a pretty good MU spread for where she is positioned on the tier list, only bad MU's being Lucario, Icies, Kirby and to a certain extent G&W & MK.

Edit: But other than that Zelda's kill power is effectively useless at high levels of play. Far safer to stay Sheik in the majority of situations.

 

[Conviction]

I think Fox should stay right were he is at. He has been pulling the same good results from multiple people even when TKD was being a crackbaby playing Sheik for that (3) weeks.

Truth be told though, Fox's metagame was moving a little when TKD started sharing things then he became a crackbaby that plays Sheik left, but now he is back. We are re-working some spacing things and seeing what is actually viable like how Dair>Double Jab>Shine>Dacus all a combo, and what we can we actually punish with our speed similar to Sonic.

EDIT: Adding this because it has been happening constantly and same agruments against Fox keep coming to the same hault and basically start back up the SAME argument that was shot down 2 days ago will pop back up, repeat cycle until current time.

except, it doesn't, never has, and never will work because it was completely warranted.
fox has consistent results, an okay matchup spread, and theoretically he's a good character besides the obvious couple counters which obviously aren't as bad as people used to think.

if you're going to argue against his rise, at least have a valuable argument to present, which nobody ever does.
all that is ever brought up is how "herp derp fox counterpicks mk on bad stages" and "herpderp he has hard counters".

 

[z00ted]

Zelda helps eliminate one of Sheiks bad matchups (Pikachu) and helps in a couple of others (DDD, ROB, Charizard).

So Sheik has a pretty good MU spread for where she is positioned on the tier list, only bad MU's being Lucario, Icies, Kirby and to a certain extent G&W & MK.

Edit: But other than that Zelda's kill power is effectively useless at high levels of play. Far safer to stay Sheik in the majority of situations.

yeah I forgot about that Mars.

Mainly because I don't play either one of those characters xD

 

[Spelt]

I've called the +4 as being unwarrented since day1.

except, it doesn't, never has, and never will work because it was completely warranted.
fox has consistent results, an okay matchup spread, and theoretically he's a good character besides the obvious couple counters which obviously aren't as bad as people used to think.

if you're going to argue against his rise, at least have a valuable argument to present, which nobody ever does.
all that is ever brought up is how "herp derp fox counterpicks mk on bad stages" and "herpderp he has hard counters".

 

[-Mars-]

Mainly because I don't play either one of those characters xD

Lucky you. :D

 

[thrillagorilla]

Yeah it actually is a crime that t0mmy can't travel and prove what his character is worth.

He can beat Felix all he wants (who honestly I haven't heard of do anything good since like some MLG tournament), he needs to attend more nationals, beat more high level players, and get better results throughout a wider spectrum.

So what does that say for the west coast in general? Most of our players don't travel (save a few notables from So-Cal). Does that make the west coast scene hold less sway when compared to the rest of the nation in these arguments? Do keep in mind there is a LARGE set of mountains in between us and the rest of the nation... Also, If nationals were the only things that made or broke a character's placement why are characters like Marth still so high? What is the justification for national tournaments holding more sway than regionals and/or overal character potential? A balance should be held. One factor should not hold more sway than the others.

On a side note, Peach should drop to D as well if your reasoning holds true.

@Reflex: Fair enough, were that entirely true. Again, why are there characters that are high on the list up that are not performing as well as others below them if this list is a true representation of the current metagame? The truth of the matter is that the list is a conglomeration of placings AND potential.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

@Reflex: Fair enough, were that entirely true. Again, why are there characters that are high on the list up that are not performing as well as others below them if this list is a true representation of the current metagame? The truth of the matter is that the list is a conglomeration of placings AND potential.

Yes, but there's only so much we can do with only one or the other.

 

[z00ted]

On a side note, Peach should drop to D as well if your reasoning holds true.

1: Ally==//
2: Razer==
3: Dojo==
4: ADHD==
5: Vinnie==/
5: Atomsk==
7: Shugo==/
7: Will==
9: Inui==
9: Logic==
9: Tyrant==
9: Trela==
13: Illmatic== <---------------
13: Smoom==
13: RedHalberd==
13: Mvd==
17: Esam==
17: Domo==
17: Poltergust==
17: Mr. Doom==
17: Gnes==
17: Espy==
17: RichBrown==
17: Zeton==

Where is ROB in there?

Money Matches Over $10

Ensis - $50, 3/5 W

Tmacc - $10, 3/5 W

Will - $10, 3/5 W

FlameWaveK - $10, 2/3 W

Money Matches Under $10

ESAM - $5, 2/3 W (in tournament)

Zano - $5, 2/3 W

Nike - $5, 2/3 L

Ally - $5, 2/3 L

Logic - $5, 2/3 L (I allowed him to go MK on Brinstar game three)

Neon - $5, 2/3 W

Sinister Slush - $5, 2/3 W

Vinnie - $5, 2/3 W

Vinnie - $5, 2/3 L

Fujin - $3, 2/3 W

RedHalberd - $5, 2/3 W

RedHalberd - $5, 2/3 W

ADHD - $5, 2/3 L

Slaps - $5, 2/3 W

Shadow1pj - $5, 2/3 W

Ozz - $5, 2/3 L

Jnig - $5, 2/3 W

Leaf - $5, 2/3 WW

Raz - $5, 2/3 L


Tmacc - $3, 2/3 W

FlameWaveK - $1, 2/3 W

Zeton - $5, 2/3 W (in tournament)

DFEAR - $5, 2/3 W

Vinnie - $5, 2/3 L

ChaosGriffin - $5, 2/3 W

MechWarrior - $10, 2/3 W

BSL - $3, 2/3 W

BSL - $3, 2/3 W

Atomsk - $5, 2/3 L

Atomsk - $5, 2/3 W

NOID - $5, 2/3 W

NOID - $10, 2/3 W

Total Wins: 27

Total Losses: 9

Whobo 3 money matches ^


Compare this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183097

to whatever the **** http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250707&page=82 <--- that is.

Also - please tell me a ROB that has beaten a top level Metaknight recently.

Nicole and lloD have both beaten Seibrik in a money match.

I recently beat RedHalberd's Metaknight in a money match and I just beat Dojo in tournament 2-0.

Enlighten me.

 

[Deleted member]

I've called the +4 as being unwarrented since day1.

This this this.

 

[thrillagorilla]

Yes, but there's only so much we can do with only one or the other.

... which is why it needs to be a balance of both. I guess we are saying the same thing then...? If this is in reference to R.O.B., then I can see other characters passing him in light of him not having "national" recognition. Without any evidence of him doing poorly on the "national" level though... a drop in teir is not warranted. Keep in mind that as long as "character potential and quality" have ANY sway in the list there needs to be other evidences that would support a drop, otherwise it would invalidate the whole process and the list would be meaningless.

@illmatic: LOL I am blind. Haha!

 

[z00ted]

answer my questions

 

[Chuee]

Also - please tell me a ROB that has beaten a top level Metaknight recently.

Chibo beat Shadow :I

 

[z00ted]

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

omfg i'm dying

 

[thrillagorilla]

answer my questions

I will. I need to look at the threads you posted before I do though. Off hand though, I don't see a 1st place at any notable tournament in your listings for the past 3+ months. I'll do a bit more digging. BTW, answer MY questions. Like I told reflex, the list comprises of placings AND potential. Simply because a character is not represented does not change thier relative potential in the current metagame. You are confusing the issue. I don't have any issue with other characters passing R.O.B. I have a problem with him DROPPING down a tier without any substatiating argument other than "lack of representation" which by definition is a lack of argument. XD

 

[Spelt]

This this this.

I forgot the tier list was based off of arguments of "this this this".
Biased wolf main is biased.
I should go back to talking about how much he sucks, to counteract how much you guys overrate him.

 

[z00ted]

I will. I need to look at the threads you posted before I do though. Off hand though, I don't see a 1st place at any notable tournament in your listings for the past 3+ months. I'll do a bit more digging. BTW, answer MY questions. Like I told reflex, the list comprises of placings AND potential. Simply because a character is not represented does not change thier relative potential in the current metagame. You are confusing the issue. I don't have any issue with other characters passing R.O.B. I have a problem with him DROPPING down a tier without any substatiating argument other than "lack of representation" which by definition is a lack of argument. XD

placings doesn't matter - it's who you beat. t0mmy can be placing first in every little local he attends, it doesn't matter if he's beating peanutpopper492 or auraabuser329

Yeah, I already talked about potential a few pages back. They go hand and hand and you need both. Although you may think ROB is SSS tier, he doesn't place nationally like at all, so he needs to drop.

 

[Conviction]

Really was the best counterargument "this this this"

Hope the people in the BBR don't argue the same way...

 

[Tesh]

"lack of rep" =/= lack of arguement.

Character usage out of 3550

S Tier


- 665 are you surprised?



A Tier


-280

-190

-172

-130

-207

-97



B Tier


-98

-102

-83

-107

-108

-87



C Tier



-87

-107

-70

-98

-58

-88

-69


D Tier



-51

-68

-9

-59

-62

-28

-25

-22


E Tier



-67

-38

-58

-17



F Tier

-18

-24

-21

-38

-22



Ganon Tier


-20

​

From ripple's thread, you can see ROB has more rep than Sonic, Wolf, Ike, DDD, Peach and Ness. All of those characters have better results though.


Falcon is underrepresented​

 

[z00ted]

yep yep yep

thrilla, reread this:

The tier list is supposed to reflect what the metagame is like right now. If someone isn't able to travel to tournaments, but he's really, really good, then he isn't really affecting the metagame.

 

[Conviction]

peanutpopper492 or auraabuser329
.

Why don't we have people named like this? We need more

 

[z00ted]

i came up with that on the spot

 

[Spelt]

If i had premium i would so change my name to peanutpopper492 lolol.

 

[Conviction]

I know, but we need people actually named this so if one of them places high I can lol saying that, Hyruler1721 made 1st place at a national.

 

[z00ted]

omfg yesss

someone contact ally, adhd, etc etc immediately.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

There was a name that someone mentioned sarcastically when talking about scandal at a tournament, and they said, "No one would care if it were CharizardMaster42" or something similar. I told myself I would enter a national as that, but forgot all about it.

 

[Conviction]

Maybe I can get TKD to change his name to Lasermaster24/7.

Reflex do it!

 

[Spelt]

There was a name that someone mentioned sarcastically when talking about scandal at a tournament, and they said, "No one would care if it were CharizardMaster42" or something similar. I told myself I would enter a national as that, but forgot all about it.

You should do it next national you enter.

 

[Deleted member]

I forgot the tier list was based off of arguments of "this this this".
Biased wolf main is biased.
I should go back to talking about how much he sucks, to counteract how much you guys overrate him.

I'm sorry or agreeing with someone's post. Your bias towards Fox is pretty evident, just FYI.

And LOL at me agreeing Fox should drop=bias towards Wolf.

 

[Conviction]

Either way. Neither post gave any reason why Fox should drop, and I can probably guess the argument for dropping will look like relatively, because it's always the same thing. Same thing different day/poster.

 

[Chuee]

I'm sorry or agreeing with someone's post. Your bias towards Fox is pretty evident, just FYI.

Spelt is so biased towards fox

 

[Conviction]

Spelt is so biased towards fox

I made him sign a contract.

What are you talking about?