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Oasis Mafia - Over!

UtopianPoyzin

Smash Master
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Not sure, I’ll get back to you when I find out.
Switch FC
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I rescind putting Wiisp in my list of three scum. I figured that because it's pretty clear that scum is in the midst of trying to distance themselves as much as possible for late game, I figured that one of the scummers was in favor of voting for me, while another one was in favor of sparing me. So that's where I got Wiisp from. That doesn't exactly reflect how I feel about the slot, because they've been generally townie, even by betting that I flip town.
 

3DSNinja

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
1,390
Alright guys, bout to give Reads 2.0

Probably Town
UP
Z25
Laser
Wiisp

Neutral
Maven
BoomFrog
Pythag
Jack

Scum
Ran
Sabrar

Feel free to vote for me for putting you as scum Sabrar.
 

Wiisp

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
1,783
meh I feel like going back to not caring, once I post my read list, that's probably all you are going to get
 

3DSNinja

Smash Lord
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Oct 30, 2018
Messages
1,390
Also I'm pretty sure Ran has swapped votes the most.

He first voted for Jack, then for me, then for laser, then for me again, then he unvoted and voted me again?

It's... odd.

BTW, here are the people who actually did vote for Laser

Jack
Ran
Sabrar.
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
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Messages
13,297
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Sabrar: Let me try to fully understand it before answering. UP's responses are not helping me understand further, either. It would help if you could give a concise case as to why that makes him scum. (In the meantime I am looking back to get an understanding of it) I don't think the interactions between you too are productive to have any further. It's starting to get dragged out and noisy.
 

ranmaru

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That means quotes would be helpful instead of links.
 

ranmaru

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As well, Ran isn't listening to Sabrar about UP, which strikes me as odd; if he was truly town, wouldn't he compromise and look at anyone besides me if he truly was town? Why would he insist on lynching the same person when someone else has arguably equally suspicious behavior? Point is, Ran is almost certainly a scum trying to use his current good perception in the eyes of the town to bus me and probably UP tomorrow/
I mention that I will give out a list tonight or tomorrow that I would be open to compromising to, yet I primarily want you lynched, because I'm confident you are scum. That's how town plays. They are open to compromising but only if they can't get their top pick lynched. (That's only if they are confident in their suspect)
 

Xivii

caterpillar feet
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Jul 20, 2008
Messages
12,902
Location
Kindgom of Science
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HBC
Vote Count 1.9.1


Utopian (2) - Sabrar, Boom [L-4]


Ninja (2) - Laser, Ran


Sabrar (1) - Utopian


Maven (1) - pythag


Laser (1) - Jack


Ran (1) - Ninja


Not Voting (3)
Maven, Z25, Wisp

P1
Sabrar #Laser
Ninja #UP
pythag #Maven
Ran #Jack
Laser #Ran
UP #Jack
UP #Unv
UP #Sabrar
Z25 #pythag
Boom #Sabrar
Laser #Wiisp
Ran #Ninja

P2
Jack #Laser
Boom #Unv
Boom #Jack
Ran #Laser

P3-P4*
Z25 #Unv

P4-P5*
Laser #Sabrar
Ran #Unv
Ran #Ninja
Sabrar #Unv
Sabrar #UP
Jack #Unv
UP #Unv
UP #Ninja

P5-P7*
Jack #pythag
Boom #Unv
Boom #Maven
Wiisp #Ninja

P7-P9*
Wiisp #Unv
UP #Unv
UP #Boom

P10
Jack #Laser

P12
UP #Unv
UP #Sabrar
Boom #Unv
Boom #UP

P13-15*
Laser #Unv
Laser #Ninja
Ninja #Unv
Ninja #Ran
Ran #Unv
Ran #Ninja

Notes
None

Players and Events
Link

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to execute!

Deadline: Monday, April 20, 2:00pm EDT
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
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Feb 10, 2008
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ranmaru ranmaru : I've reread your case on Ninja. I agree that those points can have a scummy mindset behind them. However I believe it to be possible that they are coming from newbie town. You are not trying to envision the scenario where you would be wrong, you see a narrative and put everything into perspective from that pov. And you could be completely right about all this, but you're not entertaining other options, especially regarding a person whom you're not familiar with. You're using the same schematics that you've been used to through all the years but not everything applies to everyone to the same degree. I'm not saying that we should excuse scummy behavior, but we know that mislynches do happen because town often behaves differently from what we expect and we don't like that. Can you point to an instance where Ninja outright lies or contradicts himself, where the wrongness of his position is not subject to interpretation?
I would be considering it if there were town equity to Ninja. I compare him to UP, who has had some town equity, but with some posts that gives me doubts. With Ninja, I don't have any doubts, no wavering. His recent posting has come across as malicious. I don't think I could point to a lie or contradiction at the top of my head, I don't think they've done anything as blatant as that. I don't think the problem is a logical problem, but a behavioral problem when it comes to Ninja. Now you mention I am not considering other options, as in other suspects? Well, I am pretty committed to Ninja, this is correct. This is only because of how confident I am in him being scum. Another reason why I am committed to Ninja is that town seems to be divided on Ninja, and I feel that I should push him while I am still alive, because I feel a scum flip from Ninja helps town find other scum.
 

Z25

Pokemon Illusionist
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Nice discredit ZDS
The Zds? Is that the new Switch Model coming out?
Can you explain how they are different?

This is just typical maven behavior as far as I can tell.
When maven plays he is usually very under active.

However he still sticks to his ideals and statements.

Here we saw him promise reads and unless I missed something he never delivered. Came in tried to discuss a different topic then left again.

Then he made like 3 posts without huge substance last night when I was going back and forth with Up.

Up somehow reads that as this super great townie behavior and puts him above several other active players.

When Maven plays he might be inactive as town, but when he comes in, he can come in hard and contribute a lot before disappearing. Here he just shows up and basically leaves.

Feels like an attempt to seem natural and avoid interactions so he would be harder to track as scum or it be harder to nail him as someone’s mate.

That’s my take on his behavior currently.
Honestly, UP seems a bit too obviously scum. It's why I think Ran is scum; he's clearly trying to play the part of a hyperagressive townie so that no one would suspect him of being scum. UP is honestly far too obvious to actually be scum when you stop and think about it. If anything we should be suspecting the people that aren't being super out there and suspicious, or at the very least not consider anyone as a safe townie confirm.
Normally I would say this is true, except Up when is scum is actually usually very obvious. See Sorcerers or his other games as he used gets lynched early for scum tells in most games.
Because town has an actual thought-process behind every list they provide and can explain it later. UP is unable to do so.
Literally this.

Up said his town reads don’t matter to him at all, and people are just there to pretty much be there. With his reason for why someone like Maven is town was because they probably are by statistics.

UP has expressed very little content or interest in why he likes particular players on his list over others and when asked for details refused.

This makes his list seem like complete BS because he can’t be bothered to give details as to why he as a likely scum would view these slots as town or scum, because he already knows alignments.

When you know everyone’s al of mentioned it can be a lot harder to make natural reads on players. Which is exactly what I think is going on here since he refuses to try to explain or work with others in his views
 

Z25

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Ran, what's your opinion of Jack?
Since your here, what’s some of your thoughts?

Any updated reads to give?

How do you view Up’s last string of posts since your voting for him?
 

ranmaru

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Jack is flying under the radar lately, I had to prompt him to have an update. I think he's had his vote on Pythag for too long before moving on to something else, and also seemed to take a while to update his stance on Laser. Maybe he's busy, not sure. The only thing that just makes me doubt Jack as scum is Maven, really.
 

BoomFrog

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Messages
1,493
Z25 Z25 reply to UP is a longer post but he is only looking worse and worse in my eyes.

What's the Jack Maven connection? I don't get it.
 

ranmaru

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Since Z answered, Maven as scum lurks really hard and then comes out of no where just as he did to pot shot, and leaves (Deathnote Mafia). His stance on me seems forced, since it's using content before Page 5. It just feels like a lazy attempt, and doesn't actually care to fully catch up and be present. It feels disjointed.
 

Z25

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Jack is flying under the radar lately, I had to prompt him to have an update. I think he's had his vote on Pythag for too long before moving on to something else, and also seemed to take a while to update his stance on Laser. Maybe he's busy, not sure. The only thing that just makes me doubt Jack as scum is Maven, really.
What’s your thoughts on Pythag’s question since you said you wanted my response to him first.
 

Jackrito

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Messages
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Ottawa
Jack is flying under the radar lately, I had to prompt him to have an update. I think he's had his vote on Pythag for too long before moving on to something else, and also seemed to take a while to update his stance on Laser. Maybe he's busy, not sure. The only thing that just makes me doubt Jack as scum is Maven, really.
This is mainly because being really busy with work. Tuesday was my day off which is why my activity was a lot higher. After today it will go back up.
 

Jackrito

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Also really not sure what to make of Ninjas recent stuff that is a different type of mess. He went off being defeatist as hell to attacking the more town read people. This is sucidal approuch in his position. Would a newb scum have the balls to try thag
 

ranmaru

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Z25 Z25 What's the Jack Maven connection? I don't get it.
There is none. I'm assuming there is 3 scum maximum (since this is an 11 player game), and I am thinking the most likely pairing is Ninja-Maven-UP. It used to be Ninja-UP-Jack, but the former seems more plausible due to individual scumminess.
 

Jackrito

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That being said I'm a lot more receptive to lynching Ninja today now. The stance change is just jarring to me
 

ranmaru

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I think his recent posts are for appearances only, and notice how he reversed his read on UP. I found that to be calculated.
 

ranmaru

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Bottom Four: [Ninja > Maven > UP > Jack]
 

Jackrito

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809
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Ottawa
Alright guys, bout to give Reads 2.0

Probably Town
UP
Z25
Laser
Wiisp

Neutral
Maven
BoomFrog
Pythag
Jack

Scum
Ran
Sabrar

Feel free to vote for me for putting you as scum Sabrar.
I take offense to being classed as null I feel that I did enough to be called scum or town. Having that many null reads in general is annoying. Espically when imo Wisp should be one over me Pythag and maybe even BoomFrog.

Talk to me about Lazer and Z25 as well.
 

ranmaru

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Z: Just to be clear, I already answered the question but I assume that's why you liked the post.
 

Jackrito

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I think his recent posts are for appearances only, and notice how he reversed his read on UP. I found that to be calculated.
The switch on UP bothers me big time as well. You don't drop your main scum read and call them town that easily. The stuff about UP has merit imo his read lists make no sense and he should be able to explain them. I don't care of they are outdated. Thought process is important in mafia.
 

Z25

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Also really not sure what to make of Ninjas recent stuff that is a different type of mess. He went off being defeatist as hell to attacking the more town read people. This is sucidal approuch in his position. Would a newb scum have the balls to try thag
I actually can’t even see new town doing that.

He feels like a completely different player. That harsh contrast in tone is such a difference that I’m positive he’s scum. Even though that was very likely.

He’s got my vote today but i was already on that trim of thought
 

Z25

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I actually can’t even see new town doing that.

He feels like a completely different player. That harsh contrast in tone is such a difference that I’m positive he’s scum. Even though that was very likely.

He’s got my vote today but i was already on that trim of thought
EBWOP: Train not trim
 

Jackrito

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I actually can’t even see new town doing that.

He feels like a completely different player. That harsh contrast in tone is such a difference that I’m positive he’s scum. Even though that was very likely.

He’s got my vote today but i was already on that trim of thought
That is what I thought as well it feels too different. I was semi aganist it until now, that pushed it over though.
 

ranmaru

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TOWN [Sabrar >Pythag > Z25 > Boomfrog > Laser | Wisp | Jackrito > UP > Maven > 3DSNinja] SCUM

There wasn't much change in my reads, which is odd this game. My town reads don't change much either, Laser has seemed a little under the radar yet he has given an update on his reads, which was helpful, so the position he is at makes sense to me. Boom too, mostly has been busy but, I'm not that confident in having him be a top town read or anything. The only major change is Maven being bumped down as scum. Wisp is still null but I'm looking forward to his content he's working on. No other changes really.
 

Wiisp

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I wonder if not sleeping tonight is better then trying to sleep 4-5 hours...
 

ranmaru

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Haven't gone through the UP posts entirely yet but will finish that tonight or tomorrow.
 

BoomFrog

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Try to follow along with me as UP zigzags through logic.
Okay scum, riddle me this. Sure I’m going to appeal to WIFOM on you, but I’m at least going to have you solidify your scumread on me. Why would I purportedly vote you without any reason, which is by definition a scummy thing to do, and then double down on appearing scummy by switching off of it? Just go through how this works in my favor, please.
Translation: "Im so blatently scummy you should realize I must be town."
Oh yeah my scumread on Wiisp comes from this:
Gun to my head UP flips town
Who wants to take bets
Sure you can townread me but there really isn't much reason to atm and this is just a setup for when I flip town.
Translation: "Finding me townie is scummy, I'm obviously scummy."
That's besides the point. I couldn't care less about how you read me or whatever you else you think. What I'm trying to say is that there isn't anything townie about it. I know I'm town, and anybody who thinks that I'm town by playing relatively scummily is obviously trying to save face when I flip town.

Please tell me where I said "you should find me townie" or something similar, because I'm skeptical that I said something to that effect.
Translation: "Yes really, finding me townie is scummy, I never said you should find me townie."
I rescind putting Wiisp in my list of three scum. I figured that because it's pretty clear that scum is in the midst of trying to distance themselves as much as possible for late game, I figured that one of the scummers was in favor of voting for me, while another one was in favor of sparing me. So that's where I got Wiisp from. That doesn't exactly reflect how I feel about the slot, because they've been generally townie, even by betting that I flip town.
Translation: "Finding me townie is townie."
 

UtopianPoyzin

Smash Master
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Not sure, I’ll get back to you when I find out.
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Translation: "Im so blatently scummy you should realize I must be town."
No, I said "how is this scummy". I never said you should townread me me because of your actions, I said that you shouldn't be scumreading me. There is a difference imo.

Translation: "Finding me townie is scummy, I'm obviously scummy."
Translation: "Yes really, finding me townie is scummy, I never said you should find me townie."
I still stand by the fact that there is no reason to townread me. I don't think I'm particularly scummy though, because I'm town.

Translation: "Finding me townie is townie."
No, I still agree that the scummers are still trying to distance themselves. I just have decided that I don't have enough evidence to say that this is Wiisp, so Wiisp is now null for me.



All in all, these are just a lot of false dilemmas and misrepresentation through "helpful" translations. Maybe I was right about Wiisp and you're just taking advantage of me letting up the slack as their scummate? That's obviously too much conjecture but I feel like I'm being portrayed to be more scummy than what I actually am. There's a spectrum of reads, not just town or scum.
 
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