Oasis Mafia - Over!

[Wiisp]

Nice discredit ZDS

 

[Jackrito]

UtopianPoyzin You say my argument regarding you is based on wrong information. Can you elaborate on that?
Jackrito What is your updated stances / thoughts on current events?

My updated thoughts are my view on UP is going down. I like Pythag more and I'm willin to di a Ninja lynch because it is only postive in the long run. I need to read Laser recent posts once done work to see how I feel there. I also want to review BoomFrog in full.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Because your confident and generally charming and usually get away with being all over the place D1.

Aww Embarrass

And it's probably similar to your townie play style so you are trying to keep consistent with that.

Tbh this is probably an exception, as I usually have a pretty good focus when I'm town. Even though I was scum in Sorcerer's 11, that's a pretty good example of my typical town-game. I get that I was scum there, but my goal that game was to basically forget my alignment and just due what came naturally. Spoiler alert: here I'm being purposely chaotic due to the long day lengths to try to see what people think about the things that I do. Like the voting without explanation was all for show. I still slightly scumread you, but I figured it would be obvious that I was town due to how much attention I was bringing to myself, but I did choose you because I felt that you were doing a lot of piggybacking early on and trying to run with the general consensus. I know you posted a readslist but it felt empty to me. It was just a bunch of feelings and nothing concrete, but it was worth something to me at the time.

 

[LaserGuy]

ranmaru : Would you consider unvoting and revoting without me explaining why this would be helpful?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

If I'm going to sort you, you need to at least try to regurgitate some of what you found scummy about me. No rereading needed, if you are town you can just give me your vague recollection. I promise I'm good at peicing together half digested thoughts.

EBWOP meant to include this quote innit

 

[Wiisp]

Y'all are not allowed to Lynch Jack as an information lynch

 

[ranmaru]

##unvote
##3DSNinja

 

[Pythag]

Mavens behavior is strictly different from town maven.

Can you explain how they are different?

This is just typical maven behavior as far as I can tell.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

#441

No

This is #441. I hope that we're talking about the same post.

this still bothers me
does this go from towniest to wolfiest?
please tell me it doesnt
because at this time, even with your response
I still don't know how you decided I was top town

Why is jack so high?
Why was Pythag so low?
Why was Sabrar so low?

Why was Z25 lower than Boom and Maven?

I'm not about to try to justify my very first readslist where everybody in the yellow was null. But I suppose that there was some feeling in there, so I guess I can rack my mind and try to fumble something together from my initial thoughts, which I'll have you know I updated. Nobody seems to remember that this is v1 of 3 versions.

I liked Jack's early posts I think.
Pythag was near the middle because nothing pinged me.
I think I've touched on Sabrar several times but I might not have. Banking on the former.

 

[Wiisp]

So the last time I did a read list, I nailed all 3 scum, let's see if I can do it again

 

[Wiisp]

Don't be posting version alpha .000001 and then expect people to not talk about how crap it is

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Inside joke and RVS. I understand that you didn't get the first part but why would you consider my vote serious?

Lmao is this what's been holding you up this entire time? Is this like some smear campaign to show that I didn't answer this question? I thought it was pretty obvious, but I suppose I can't speak for everyone. I never said your vote was serious. However, you were still appealing to a townie early on to make them be more in favor of you. You appealed to BoomFrog, who would be a townie in the instance that you are scum. I don't know about anybody else, but the bottom of this quote is clearly the part worth answering. This quote right here is worth nothing to me. So you can take that what you want, but I'm not a huge fan of the antics that you're pulling. You're probably scum for doing so. Why is this question worth so much to you?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I've already nailed 3 scum. It's Sabrar, 3DSNinja, and Wiisp.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Don't be posting version alpha .000001 and then expect people to not talk about how crap it is

Lol talk crap about it if you want, but don't expect me to defend the early readslists especially when they don't reflect my current thoughts. It's counterproductive imo

 

[Sabrar]

I'm not about to try to justify my very first readslist where everybody in the yellow was null.
Nobody seems to remember that this is v1 of 3 versions.

Nobody cares. You produced that order and what's more important you later explicitly defended it when you said LG was slight scum-lean due to PoE because you found others townier.
Those are your words that you are contradicting. That's why you're scum.

 

[Sabrar]

I never said your vote was serious.

But you based your reasoning on it.
This is from #201:
"Posting restrictions are not inherently scummy and justifying your vote with one is pretty sus. Even if he was faking the posting restriction, you were quick to jump with "oh they must be scum because of it" in the third sentence."
If it was clear to you that my vote wasn't serious, why in hell would you think that I needed to justify it? It was a continuation of the original post, still in RVS, still in jest.

ranmaru : are these 2 examples of UP contradicting himself enough for you?

 

[Xivii]

Vote Count 1.9


Utopian (2) - Sabrar, Boom [L-4]


Ninja (2) - Laser, Ran


Sabrar (1) - Utopian


Maven (1) - pythag


Laser (1) - Jack


Ran (1) - Ninja


Not Voting (3)
Maven, Z25, Wisp​

Spoiler: History

P1
Sabrar #Laser
Ninja #UP
pythag #Maven
Ran #Jack
Laser #Ran
UP #Jack
UP #Unv
UP #Sabrar
Z25 #pythag
Boom #Sabrar
Laser #Wiisp
Ran #Ninja

P2
Jack #Laser
Boom #Unv
Boom #Jack
Ran #Laser

P3-P4*
Z25 #Unv

P4-P5*
Laser #Sabrar
Ran #Unv
Ran #Ninja
Sabrar #Unv
Sabrar #UP
Jack #Unv
UP #Unv
UP #Ninja

P5-P7*
Jack #pythag
Boom #Unv
Boom #Maven
Wiisp #Ninja

P7-P9*
Wiisp #Unv
UP #Unv
UP #Boom

P10
Jack #Laser

P12
UP #Unv
UP #Sabrar
Boom #Unv
Boom #UP

P13-15*
Laser #Unv
Laser #Ninja
Ninja #Unv
Ninja #Ran
Ran #Unv
Ran #Ninja

Notes
Lasers, sharks, laser sharks, overbearing assistants...

Players and Events
Link

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to execute!

Deadline: Monday, April 20, 2:00pm EDT

 

[Sabrar]

ranmaru : I've reread your case on Ninja. I agree that those points can have a scummy mindset behind them. However I believe it to be possible that they are coming from newbie town. You are not trying to envision the scenario where you would be wrong, you see a narrative and put everything into perspective from that pov. And you could be completely right about all this, but you're not entertaining other options, especially regarding a person whom you're not familiar with. You're using the same schematics that you've been used to through all the years but not everything applies to everyone to the same degree. I'm not saying that we should excuse scummy behavior, but we know that mislynches do happen because town often behaves differently from what we expect and we don't like that. Can you point to an instance where Ninja outright lies or contradicts himself, where the wrongness of his position is not subject to interpretation?

 

[BoomFrog]

Gun to my head UP flips town
Who wants to take bets

I wouldn't bet my life on any one person being scum. That's bad odds D1. Sabrar I'm surprised (and yet not surprised) that you are so confident.

I disappeared because I just incriminated myself more.

Keep talking. No matter what. The more you say the more people have to dig in about. If you are town but posting "incriminates" you more then D2 when you flip we will have more to look and find where the mafia pushed your lynched more then they should have.

Bottom 4 are: UP, Jackrito, Maven, and... mmm, I guess LaserGuy or Sabrar. No, I'd probably go with Ninja before LG or Sabrar, just to clear the air.

I'll try to find time to ISO UP and Jack this weekend.

 

[Wiisp]

why do we need to assume a narrative?
I hate this, "holier than though", post
what the hell is the difference between either end of the spectrum
Locking someone as a wolf, or locking someone as town its all the same thing

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Oh yeah my scumread on Wiisp comes from this:

Gun to my head UP flips town
Who wants to take bets

Sure you can townread me but there really isn't much reason to atm and this is just a setup for when I flip town.

 

[BoomFrog]

Extra thoughts from making my bottom 4: I've gone back and forth on Wiisp. The flippantness and lack of close reading make them hard to read, but that's the player, not the slot. But they've shown a townie mindset a few times, especially the early call for everyone to stop focusing on 3DS.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

early call for everyone to stop focusing on 3DS.

Heh, I did something similar to that before Wiisp but none of this means anything because its LAMIST anyway. Should be common sense to not focus on one person.

Addressing Sabrar's read of me next.

 

[BoomFrog]

Oh yeah my scumread on Wiisp comes from this:

Sure you can townread me but there really isn't much reason to atm and this is just a setup for when I flip town.

You JUST were posting about how we should find you townie because you are being too attention grabbing to be scum. Wiisp clearly appreciates a little chaos.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

You JUST were posting about how we should find you townie because you are being too attention grabbing to be scum. Wiisp clearly appreciates a little chaos.

That's besides the point. I couldn't care less about how you read me or whatever you else you think. What I'm trying to say is that there isn't anything townie about it. I know I'm town, and anybody who thinks that I'm town by playing relatively scummily is obviously trying to save face when I flip town.

Please tell me where I said "you should find me townie" or something similar, because I'm skeptical that I said something to that effect.

 

[3DSNinja]

Honestly, UP seems a bit too obviously scum. It's why I think Ran is scum; he's clearly trying to play the part of a hyperagressive townie so that no one would suspect him of being scum. UP is honestly far too obvious to actually be scum when you stop and think about it. If anything we should be suspecting the people that aren't being super out there and suspicious, or at the very least not consider anyone as a safe townie confirm.

 

[3DSNinja]

We can't write off anyone as a scum suspect is what I'm sayin; we've written off Ran as a suspect when we really shouldn't.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I'm not 'not doing anything' with it. I'm using it in my read of you. I've seen quite a few vote-changes during RVS but noone was ever so self-conscious that they felt the need to point it out.

Funny stuff. You say that you're "using it" but then say that you've never seen anybody be self conscious about changing their vote. THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING! You STILL have not yet inferred anything from it, besides saying "hmm, I've never seen it before". That is so dreadfully unhelpful and the fact that you say that you're using it baffles me. So, because you say that you're scumreading me and that this quote influences your read, it would be safe for me to say that you are scumreading me because I was conscious of my vote switch, even if only in part. Am I wrong? You still have not yet committed on this particular sentence, which is odd because you expressly state that you are "using" this interaction, even if it is not apparent. You "not seeing anybody be self-conscious about a vote change" does not do anything besides call attention to a post.

Good attempt at post hoc explanation to cover up.

Now I hate to be pedantic, because its certainly not lining up with my current character in this game, but this is absolutely not a post hoc explanation. A post hoc logical fallacy is when you falsely claim that two events are linked together due to them happening chronologically. At least, that is what I was taught. It's like saying "He drank milk before he died. Therefore, the milk was the reason that he died". As you can see, this is certainly not the case here; all I did was give a truthful explanation of a previous event. And besides, you didn't even give any weight to what I said. It's like asking for an explanation and then saying "too late" once it is given. There is no other reason for me to call attention to me switching my vote if I wasn't trying to prompt somebody to say something about it, and you trying to deny this as the truth is certainly strange.

Contradiction, it's not RVS and it is important if you base it on intuition.

I very much still voted for you in the early state of the game. My "natural intuition" was based off of "who do I think is probably scum from these openings" to which I said Sabrar which I have explained previously. And you can definitely tell that me putting quote around "natural intution" means that I'm not serious so this has got to be the lamest gotcha of all time if you're basing it around evident sarcasm just to rub my name in mud.

You reacted only to the part regarding your confidence in the neighbor-scum. But from the context it should have been clear to you that I was referring to the part that questions the validity of your read of my initial vote. Yes, I would like you to react to that.

I see it differently. But it might be just a wording issue.

You shouldn't do PoE with less than a day gone. You can put them at neutral but thinking that PoE will catch scum that early is a bit too much.
Also see next point.

Yeah, no. I haven't touched #95 at all. But if you insist, please answer Wiisp's #441. Just saying that it is an old list (#452) is not even close to enough. You must have had your reasons for that order, especially if LG ended up in the scummy pile because everyone above him was townier.[/QUOTE]

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Oopsie daisie I posted too early. I'll get the second half here

 

[3DSNinja]

As well, Ran isn't listening to Sabrar about UP, which strikes me as odd; if he was truly town, wouldn't he compromise and look at anyone besides me if he truly was town? Why would he insist on lynching the same person when someone else has arguably equally suspicious behavior?

Point is, Ran is almost certainly a scum trying to use his current good perception in the eyes of the town to bus me and probably UP tomorrow/

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

You reacted only to the part regarding your confidence in the neighbor-scum. But from the context it should have been clear to you that I was referring to the part that questions the validity of your read of my initial vote. Yes, I would like you to react to that.

The context was absolutely not clear so don't try to paint it as such. The top half question was so bogglingly unimportant in my eyes that I assumed there was no way you needed that answered. But I got that taken care of for you earlier.

I see it differently. But it might be just a wording issue.

Okay...?

You shouldn't do PoE with less than a day gone. You can put them at neutral but thinking that PoE will catch scum that early is a bit too much.
Also see next point.

You obviously took that out of context. If I townread more people than I scumread, and null is in between those two, then null will naturally be lower on my list. Is that too hard to comprehend? It's the literal definition of process of elimination, not being used as a scumhunting tool. Just a way to create my readslist.

Yeah, no. I haven't touched #95 at all. But if you insist, please answer Wiisp's #441. Just saying that it is an old list (#452) is not even close to enough. You must have had your reasons for that order, especially if LG ended up in the scummy pile because everyone above him was townier.

At that time, the bolded was true. However, as I've said many times regarding my position on that slot in the very early stages of the game before LaserGuy started posting, it was nothing to create a wagon over. You act like I was on board for taking him out early on when this is not the case. He was just on the lower end of my list because that's just how it happened.

 

[Sabrar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc

Post hoc (sometimes written as post-hoc) is a Latin phrase, meaning "after this" or "after the event".

It's not about the fallacy. It's about you providing an explanation after the event.

I'll react to the rest tomorrow, I just like to be pedantic.

 

[3DSNinja]

Also, why the hell are we accusing UP over his FIRST suspect list? That seems kinda stupid, because guess what? HE MADE 2 OTHERS THAT ARE MORE ACCURATE TO HIS CURRENT THOUGHTS. Also wasn't literally EVERYONE suspicious of Laser at the beginning? UP is the person that was least suspicious of him and we're attacking him over that? Yeah, no. That makes no logical sense.

UP is becoming more and more town the more I actually look at the info.

 

[Sabrar]

But while you're at it, please also look at #575 and #576.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc

Post hoc (sometimes written as post-hoc) is a Latin phrase, meaning "after this" or "after the event".

It's not about the fallacy. It's about you providing an explanation after the event.

I'll react to the rest tomorrow, I just like to be pedantic.

Same. Usually when you try to discredit something, you try to prove how the argument is fallous. If that's not the case, then this is ONCE AGAIN just you calling attention to a piece of evidence and doing absolutely nothing with it. Here I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were trying to prove that my argument was fallous, but it seems that you just want to bring attention without making any inferences.

I s M y E x p l a n a t i o n T r u t h f u l? If it's not, then please offer a counter-reason on why I called attention to my RVS vote switching. If you don't have anything, then I would say that it's safe to assume that it WAS just me lying down a bait, and that you just so happened to pick it up. I was hoping that you would say explicitly that it was scummy, but you instead just decided to say that it happened and that you apparently will use this piece of evidence for something down the line.

 

[Sabrar]

Also, why the hell are we accusing UP over his FIRST suspect list?

Because town has an actual thought-process behind every list they provide and can explain it later. UP is unable to do so.

 

[Sabrar]

Same. Usually when you try to discredit something, you try to prove how the argument is fallous. If that's not the case, then this is ONCE AGAIN just you calling attention to a piece of evidence and doing absolutely nothing with it. Here I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were trying to prove that my argument was fallous, but it seems that you just want to bring attention without making any inferences.

I don't follow you here. You went off on a lengthy tangent to say that I use post hoc wrong because your content has nothing to do with the fallacy. I showed you that my wording was correct and you just misunderstood/misinterpreted the meaning. What are you trying to say here?

 

[3DSNinja]

I personally think UP is town now.

Also you're blatantly mistating facts to make UP look more scummy when he really isn't.

I'm not voting for you, but you're very suspicious right now at least from my POV.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Nobody cares. You produced that order and what's more important you later explicitly defended it when you said LG was slight scum-lean due to PoE because you found others townier.
Those are your words that you are contradicting. That's why you're scum.

But you based your reasoning on it.
This is from #201:
"Posting restrictions are not inherently scummy and justifying your vote with one is pretty sus. Even if he was faking the posting restriction, you were quick to jump with "oh they must be scum because of it" in the third sentence."
If it was clear to you that my vote wasn't serious, why in hell would you think that I needed to justify it? It was a continuation of the original post, still in RVS, still in jest.

ranmaru : are these 2 examples of UP contradicting himself enough for you?

Oh cool.

I looked at them. I'm not going to talk about the first one because this is you just telling me that I'm scum. "Huh, fun fact. I didn't know I was scum, but I guess that this is a ******* game and that my role PM was a lie." I'm honestly not to worried about your opinion of me because we mutually scumread each other. You don't have to believe that I'm scum, and I don't have to convince you that I'm town.

As for the second bit, you justified your vote in your second post with saying that LG was faking the post restriction, and then saying that you spotted scum D1 because of it. It sounded to me like you were looking for a reason to keep your vote on LG. While the first post was serious, you continued this line of reasoning later. There wasn't any obviously-joking D1 ****posts, it was straight down to business with a justification for your vote.

Hey BoomFrog, long time no see. Can't you see that LG is totally faking the post restriction? You know how amazing I am at spotting scum D1, you voting me means it's likely you're his buddy which makes me sad. I thought we could have a nice us vs them thing going on. Oh well.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

In hindsight, why tf are we still talking about RVS votes this just sounded just as meaningless as it felt while writing that last bit.