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Nuclear power is green (good for the environment).

chaos_Leader

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A nuclear power plant produces no greenhouse gases, does not significantly disturb local habitats the way a hydroelectric dam does, does not rely on outside conditions such as wind or solar. Yet most environmentalists are against it.


First and foremost argument: nuclear waste.

What it is:
Nuclear waste is a mix of several radioactive isotopes, or atoms with many extra neutrons that break down to other elements and emit radiation at varying intensities and speed until it has decayed into a stable atom, usually lead.

-waste is contained in sealed lead-lined ceramic containers to block any radiation escaping.
-In order for nuclear waste to do any harm, you have to be almost touching it.
-There is a site in Nevada called Yucca Mountain that is geologically stable (no earthquakes) and is very far from any source of water or major populations. Nuclear waste can be stored underground and kept safe for a very long time.
-up to 90% of nuclear waste can be reprocessed back into nuclear fuel for further use power plants, the other 10% has a very short half-life


Second argument: nuclear catastrophe

When a reactor goes critical, it doesn't explode, it melts; thats why they call it a meltdown. The concentration of uranium 235(produced in breeder reactors) to uranium 238(natural, can be found in the ground) in fuel isn't great enough to have an explosive reaction like weapons-grade uranium.

Most people site the Chernobyl disaster,
[edit]That was the combination of several design flaws, the operation of the plant with safety measures disabled, and a poorly conducted test of emergency shut-down procedures.
Nuclear power plants today are designed,constructed and operated much more safely than the power plants of the past.[/edit]


Some people say it is a target for terrorists.
If you've ever been to a nuclear power plant, you'd notice that it has security like a military base, a significant part of the staff is well-trained security personnel. Additionally, the reactor is encased in several feet of solid reinforced concrete in the reactor dome; in one test, they rammed a train with several heavy cars into a reactor dome at full speed, the dome was fine.


Advantages of Nuclear power:
-Only has to be refueled once every 5 years, a coal power plant that produces similar wattage has to be refueled daily with many many tons of coal.
-produces no greenhouse gases, only water from cooling, and the water never comes in contact with nuclear fuel or waste. reactors with the massive iconic cooling towers produce only water droplets, literally a cloud. Others release hot water, one power plant uses treated sewage to cool itself and recycles that water back to the city for use.
-Can be built almost anywhere. A hydroelectric dam requires a river, a wind turbine requires a windy place and solar panels require a sunny place. Wind and sun are sometimes unreliable.
-Cost as much to operate as a coal power plant that produces similar wattage without the greenhouse gas emissions

Japan is the best example:
Japan is the only country in the world to have a nuclear weapon used against them, yet 80% of their electricity comes from nuclear power plants. The air in Japan for the most part is very clean, even compared to the forests of Oregon where I live.


other uses:
-Nuclear powered ships.
These are already in use, many naval vessels such as aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines use nuclear power to operate. The only alternative is diesel fuel. an extensive study of the crew members have shown that those who were serving on board nuclear vessels had no long-term health effects different than an ordinary person.


Other alternatives:
Fusion power is the next great hope, it emits only heat and helium, which also has uses. But it is not ready yet. So far we cannot produce a self-sustaining fusion reaction, much less one that can produce energy, for the here and now, Nuclear power is the best option for a clean, eco-friendly and high-power electricity option. I'm all for Solar and Wind power, but they cannot meet the demands of large-scale industrial and commercial consumers that need larger quantities of power to operate.


Conclusion:
People's lack of knowledge on nuclear power has always bugged me, whenever I see protesters against nuclear power I think "don't be so foolish! I thought you wanted to stop global warming, not play right into the oil/coal companies hands!" By refusing nuclear power, we have done very little against the demand for fossil fuels like coal to power our industries, our homes and our lives


I want to believe you, but you never give any sources. Link me to a reliable source to back up your claims.
Some outside sources:

http://www.aboutnuclear.org/erc/

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nuclear-power.htm

http://www.phy6.org/stargaze/Snuclear.htm

http://www.world-nuclear.org/
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf69.htm (information on nuclear reprocessing)

http://nuclearinfo.net/
 

Mic_128

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Most people site the Chernobyl disaster,
that was a result of nuclear technicians operating while drunk.
You're an idiot. Get your facts straight. It happened because they were working on setting up a safety system they had been operating for years without, and when they had a chance to get it up, they continued to do it anyway.

The Chernobyl power plant had been in operation for two years without this important safety feature. The station managers must have waited anxiously to fix this issue at first opportunity. This can explain why they were so doggedly determined to carry out the test, even when serious problems arose, and why no requisite approval for the test was sought in the Soviet nuclear oversight regulatory body.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#The_accident

And sorry, but I don't consider radioactive waste that has to be buried in huge metal drums in the middle of no-where Environmentally Friendly.

If they were firing it into the sun, maybe.
 

Crimson King

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Though Chernobyl was a very isolated incident and likely to never happen again, seeing pictures of the town leads me to never want nuclear power again. Also, as Mic stated, the toxic waste HAS to go somewhere. Just putting it in the ground won't do.
 

GoldShadow

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Like what you said CK, people still have images of Chernobyl and Hiroshima in their mind when they think "nuclear".

The truth is, however, that modern nuclear power is very safe and practical. Like the OP suggested, it is the next logical step towards solving the energy (and global warming) crisis. It is not dangerous like people think.

Radioactive waste in drums is a lot safer than you think, as long as it is properly maintained.
 

chaos_Leader

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You're an idiot. Get your facts straight. It happened because they were working on setting up a safety system they had been operating for years without, and when they had a chance to get it up, they continued to do it anyway.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#The_accident
Facts straightened, thanks for pointing that out.

And sorry, but I don't consider radioactive waste that has to be buried in huge metal drums in the middle of no-where Environmentally Friendly.
If they were firing it into the sun, maybe.
as I stated above, nuclear waste isn't simply stored in drums and stuffed underground. Nuclear waste is solid, it doesn't leak and isn't stored in drums. it looks very much like fuel rods when it is extracted. The waste is stored in containers that stop waste and radiation from escaping and anything else getting in. Yucca Mountain is not just a hole in the ground, it is a carefully excavated and very secure man-made cave. Not to mention the gigantic cost to get waste into space and into the sun plus all the hazards if that waste were to fall back to Earth.
And I have also stated that almost all the waste can be reprocessed back into fuel. (France already does this) the fuel itself emits almost no radiation when it is not in the process of fission.
 

SkylerOcon

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I want to believe you, but you never give any sources. Link me to a reliable source to back up your claims.
 

Darkslash

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Too me there is no Green Energy. All sources of energy are going to have a bad side affect to the environment. But the cleanest one i have to say are Hydro and Solar Energy. hydro because it powers it self and Solar because it collects energy. The downsides to these are disturbed ecosystems. But lucky me i live in B.C who also powers California.....yes we make so much Energy we give it to California
 

Rusty Shacklefurd

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Too me there is no Green Energy. All sources of energy are going to have a bad side affect to the environment. But the cleanest one i have to say are Hydro and Solar Energy. hydro because it powers it self and Solar because it collects energy. The downsides to these are disturbed ecosystems. But lucky me i live in B.C who also powers California.....yes we make so much Energy we give it to California
Actually, inspite of what the majority of people seem to believe, B.C. has had to import more energy than it exports for the past few years. And no, I don't remember where my source was but I'm sure somebody here can find some reliable information about it if they really want to.
 

Overload

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I think we should learn how to prevent meltdowns better before making more nuclear powerplants. It may still be a little too early to convert to nuclear power
 

Johnthegalactic

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Aren't most on the US Navy's ships nuclear powered?
I know only one aircraft carrier still serving is non-nuclear, the USS Kittyhawk,(the JFK was recently decommisioned), anyway, you rarely hear about meltdowns and such on those ships.

It seems we would need a very well disciplined crew maintaining a reactor, as they can be problematic if not kept in tip top shape.
I, myself would like to see more nuclear power in the USA.
 

GoldShadow

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We do know how to prevent meltdowns.

Nuclear power is very safe, but the word "nuclear" gets people frightened.

Hospitals, for example, have MRI machines to do scans of your body. I'm sure some of you have even had MRIs done on you. MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) used to be called NMRI (nuclear magnetic resonance imaging), but the name was changed because people associated the word "nuclear" with things like "mushroom cloud", even though MRI has absolutely nothing to do with the kind of radiation or reactions involved in nuclear power.

On the other hand, most people have no problem getting X-rays done or stepping through an X-ray machine at the airport, even though X-rays are a form of ionizing radiation, the kind that is emitted by radioactive material or an atom bomb.

I guess one of the main points I'm trying to bring across is that the only reason people are afraid of nuclear power is because of the stigma attached to the word "nuclear". People don't understand how it works, they just know what's associated with the word "nuclear" and they oppose it.

Modern nuclear power plants are "immune" to the kind of thing that happened at Chernobyl, according to Discover magazine (due to the way they are designed). Additionally, we currently only produce 2000 tons of nuclear waste per year, compared to 2 billion tons of carbon dioxide from current coal power plants. Not to mention that the nuclear waste can be stored safely, does not harm the environment, and some of it can even be recycled. Compare this to the devastating effects of all that CO2 produced by coal power plants.

Wind and solar energy are also some options, yes; but when you compare the cost vs output of each, you see that nuclear power is much more efficient than either wind or solar.

The best would obviously be a combination of all of them, but nuclear power is the only practical method of creating a high supply of energy to meet high energy demand when needed (besides coal, which is what we want to move away from). Both solar and wind cannot be relied upon for times of high demand; solar must be stored (it requires time), and wind depends on the weather (which we cannot control).

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/bem/nuclearpowerplants/npfaqseabrook.html (Seabrook nuclear power plant in New Hampshire)

http://www.goshen.edu/bio/Biol410/BSSPapers98/schrock/schrock.html (on the safety of nuclear power, precautions, and recycling of nuclear material)

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/aug/better-planet-nuclear-wind-power (Discover magazine article on the practicality of nuclear power)

http://www.euronuclear.org/e-news/e-news-13/neutron-kinetics.htm

http://www.atse.org.au/index.php?sectionid=462 (cost comparisons)
 

Johnthegalactic

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While on topic of nuclear power, I heard Cherenkov radiation is caused by electrons accelerating beyond the speed of light.

And, while this may deviate from the subject, my great uncle, now deceased, was a pilot of a B-29 and was in flight and ordered to return to base when the first nuclear bomb was being dropped.

Ok, back to the subject!

I do not doubt nuclear powers superior efficiency, and environmental safety, compared to fossil fuels, solar, and wind(the latter two are exempt from environmental safety concerns).
Although I do not condemn any energy sources, except the proposed human burning engine, I would through the majority of my support behind nuclear energy.
 

chaos_Leader

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Too me there is no Green Energy. All sources of energy are going to have a bad side affect to the environment. But the cleanest one i have to say are Hydro and Solar Energy. hydro because it powers it self and Solar because it collects energy. The downsides to these are disturbed ecosystems. But lucky me i live in B.C who also powers California.....yes we make so much Energy we give it to California
Even without sources, the above statement is untrue. When you send power through cables, some of the energy is lost, mostly as heat. We can't make cables that are perfect conductors. More power would be lost in the transfer all the way through the states of Washington and Oregon than would be worth it. California does get some energy from out-of-state, mostly from Oregon and Nevada, but not from Canada.
 

Aesir

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There is no reasonable way to dispose of the waste, in theory nuclear is a really good idea, but until they solve the waste issue it's not going to be widely sought after.

Yucca Mountain? horrible idea, it is very sustainable to earth quakes. Nevada is one of the most common states to experience an earth quake. Back in the early 2000's they experienced an earthquake of about 2.5 to 3 on the Richter scale. With I think a magnitude of about 4, that's no small over sight.

Furthermore over looking the earthquake problem: nuclear waste has a very long half life before it's deemed safe. We can't even store all nuclear waste into that site, so it's not even a reliable option.

One of the biggest fears I think many people have on nuclear energy is how easy it is to convert this stuff into a bomb.
 

Johnthegalactic

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There is no reasonable way to dispose of the waste, in theory nuclear is a really good idea, but until they solve the waste issue it's not going to be widely sought after.

Yucca Mountain? horrible idea, it is very sustainable to earth quakes. Nevada is one of the most common states to experience an earth quake. Back in the early 2000's they experienced an earthquake of about 2.5 to 3 on the Richter scale. With I think a magnitude of about 4, that's no small over sight.

Furthermore over looking the earthquake problem: nuclear waste has a very long half life before it's deemed safe. We can't even store all nuclear waste into that site, so it's not even a reliable option.

One of the biggest fears I think many people have on nuclear energy is how easy it is to convert this stuff into a bomb.
We could send the nuclear waste into space by rocket power, it shouldn't cause any problems up there.

It is alot easier to convert gasoline into a Molotov cocktail than uranium pellets into weapons grade uranium.
 

Aesir

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We could send the nuclear waste into space by rocket power, it shouldn't cause any problems up there.
Cost.

It is alot easier to convert gasoline into a Molotov cocktail than uranium pellets into weapons grade uranium.
Um no, I suggest you educate yourself on this matter because it's far easier to turn waste into a weapon. FAR easier.

roughly 20 lbs can be converted into a weapon similar to the bomb in Nagasaki, 20lbs is actually a very small portion of the nuclear waste in the world. 100,000+ lbs exist today.
 

SuperRacoon

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Everything we do is destructive to environmentalist,
I read an argument about how Nuclear is bad, and brings up wind energy, and then someone complains about how a few birds got caught in a turbine.
(we need to be concerned about the environment, but please, be logical and suggest alternative instead of just protesting everything)

Every thing we do will affect the environment in some way. Breathing produces CO2, and weather or not you can accept it, The World would not be able to sustain the current human population without modernization or our doomsday devices.

So please don't bash a system unless you can propose an economical alternative.

To me, Nuclear energy is the ideal SHORT TERM solution to oil.
 

Aesir

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Everything we do is destructive to environmentalist,
I read an argument about how Nuclear is bad, and brings up wind energy, and then someone complains about how a few birds got caught in a turbine.
(we need to be concerned about the environment, but please, be logical and suggest alternative instead of just protesting everything)
Please be smart, don't confuse environmentalists, with crazy ******* okay? many environmentalists understand that no matter what we're effecting it. The purpose is to always strive to avoid the unnecessary influences.

If someone really said birds will get caught in the turbines I want you to tell me who they are so I can kill them.


Every thing we do will affect the environment in some way. Breathing produces CO2, and weather or not you can accept it, The World would not be able to sustain the current human population without modernization or our doomsday devices.
The Co2 from breathing is handled from the plants, it has little to no effect on the environment.



So please don't bash a system unless you can propose an economical alternative.
To me, Nuclear energy is the ideal SHORT TERM solution to oil.
There are towns in the US that run completely on wind energy there is a town in Missouri which is run completely on Wind energy they actually produce more energy then they need because of the wind. So what do they do with the excess power? it gets stored.

Wind/Solar are becoming more advanced, not only that there are little risks involved with these alternatives.
 

SuperRacoon

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Please be smart, don't confuse environmentalists, with crazy ******* okay? many environmentalists understand that no matter what we're effecting it. The purpose is to always strive to avoid the unnecessary influences.

If someone really said birds will get caught in the turbines I want you to tell me who they are so I can kill them.



The Co2 from breathing is handled from the plants, it has little to no effect on the environment.





There are towns in the US that run completely on wind energy there is a town in Missouri which is run completely on Wind energy they actually produce more energy then they need because of the wind. So what do they do with the excess power? it gets stored.

Wind/Solar are becoming more advanced, not only that there are little risks involved with these alternatives.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/common_misconce.php

This article addresses my frustration very well, there are lots of people in California that need to die. please be my guest if you can find the idiots that started the myth.

I made an unreasonable exaggeration, for that I deserve to be punished.

Really, it's a transition thing, Nuclear by comparison is dirt cheap, I said short term
because we can quickly move to this and get off of oil (which is definitely doomsday product on which we are dependent) while allowing more time to replace it with solar and wind and such.

I honestly think we should outfit new and older building with solar panels on the roofs.

like this http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/08/worlds_largest_7.php

I'm not a sports fan, but what you see right there is just smart, the panels are out of the way, and absorb sunlight.
 

Johnthegalactic

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Cost.



Um no, I suggest you educate yourself on this matter because it's far easier to turn waste into a weapon. FAR easier.

roughly 20 lbs can be converted into a weapon similar to the bomb in Nagasaki, 20lbs is actually a very small portion of the nuclear waste in the world. 100,000+ lbs exist today.

Your saying that creating a nuclear weapon is easier than sticking gasoline in a glass bottle with a flammable cloth sticking out?
Show me how to do this.

I doubt shipping tons and tons of nuclear waste at a time would be expensive, it is a one way flight, and it doesn't matter where it goes.
NASA is working on or has completed a low cost rocket design anyway.

Turning gasoline into gasoline in a bottle is easier than creating a nuclear weapon, plus you must have the means to deliver it.

Some research reveals articles about the great and improving UN security, that prevents people from acquiring nuclear materials to make a dirty bomb or nuclear weapon.
Now, I could go to one of my many local gas stations, buy a drink in a glass bottle, some cloth, a lighter, and of course, some gasoline, and assemble an effective, dangerous, weapon.

And napalm, is also very simple to make, just add soap to gasoline.

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning... It smells like... victory."
 

Aesir

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Your saying that creating a nuclear weapon is easier than sticking gasoline in a glass bottle with a flammable cloth sticking out?
Show me how to do this.
I read your post wrong woops lol.

Petrol bombs can't level countries.

I doubt shipping tons and tons of nuclear waste at a time would be expensive, it is a one way flight, and it doesn't matter where it goes.
NASA is working on or has completed a low cost rocket design anyway.
The cost would be in the ball park of hundreds of millions for starters, also there's planning, furthermore it would take many trips to dispose of all the toxic waste.

Just one other thing to point out, there's ways the risk of shuttles blowing up before they leave the earth. Why would you risk it?

Turning gasoline into gasoline in a bottle is easier than creating a nuclear weapon, plus you must have the means to deliver it.
Again the amount of waste needed to create a bomb similar to the ones used against Japan is very small and easy to do. as far as delivering goes there's many unconventional ways to deploying a nuclear weapon.



Some research reveals articles about the great and improving UN security, that prevents people from acquiring nuclear materials to make a dirty bomb or nuclear weapon.
Now, I could go to one of my many local gas stations, buy a drink in a glass bottle, some cloth, a lighter, and of course, some gasoline, and assemble an effective, dangerous, weapon.
That's why they can't seem to stop places like Iran and NK from nuclear proliferation? right? All the UN does and say; "Hey now youdon't wanna do that, we had a deal" Iran: "Don't care."

All they do is talk, they never act.

again Napalm can't level countries.

And napalm, is also very simple to make, just add soap to gasoline.
Again it can't level countries.

Comparing napalm to a atomic weapons is like comparing a bow and arrow to an automatic.
 

SuperRacoon

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The question that comes to my mind when this issue pops up is the following.

Can we compare the the amount of harmful radiation received from the sun to the total amount amount of radiation produced by nuclear elements and byproducts?

I can't find any statistics, it might be useful to compare the numbers to determine the total risk factor, (I'd assume the nuclear by products would be about 2 to 3 times more than that received by the sun as a magnetic field and and the atmosphere deflect a lot of it)

This elements were in the earth before for that matter also. It's very rare stuff, but still, it's been undergoing radioactive decay for a long time.

Also I saw a documentary on the history channel about what the world would be like if humans were to suddenly disappear. They visited a few areas in the Chernobyl area where all life had previously been wiped out, and the radiation was still highly detectable. And wild life was thriving just fine as if nothing were wrong.

Anyway, it leads me to wonder, how harmful is this radiation really. I can't find any data regarding its affects of a wider distance. Obviously if you place a rat in the middle of a pile of it, or even right on top of one pellet, the rat will die.

But I think we may be overrating the destructiveness of the radiation itself. But how would I know, I can't find any research regarding it.

So please if someone has a reliable unbiased information for this, please post.
 

Eor

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Nuclear Power is all fine and good until the mutant mole people arrive and demand our women
 

chaos_Leader

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To address the concern of nuclear weapons:

-Nuclear fuel consists of mostly Uranium 238 and a small portion of Uranium 235
-Uranium 238 is naturally occurring and can be dug out of the ground. It emits a very tiny amount of radiation.
-Uranium 235 is also naturally occurring withing the masses of Uranium 238, but in much smaller quantities. The process begins with the natural Uranium and through a painstaking and very complicated process*, some of the Uranium 238 is removed leaving a greater amount of U. 235 in the mass.
-Only a very small portion of a Fuel rod or pellet is Uranium 235. Roughly 4% U.235 to 96% U.238

-Weapons-grade Uranium is far more difficult to produce.
-It requires roughly 90% U.235 to 10% U.238. The process to extract U.235 becomes exponentially more difficult as you attempt to get more of it. If nuclear weapons were easy to make, you'd see guys with little breeder reactors in their basements making them. It isn't easy, and for most it isn't practical.


*Producing enriched Uranium for power plants or weapons involves combining the Uranium with fluoride to make a gas: Uranium hexafluoride. Using a gas centrifuge, the heavier Uranium 238 is separated from Uranium 235. the end result: the mass of Uranium is smaller and has a greater concentration of Uranium U.235 This process becomes more and more difficult the greater the concentration of U.235 is needed.



Again with Yucca Mountain:
Remember what the risk is: water getting into the site. Nuclear waste is Solid and stored in containers that block radiation and waste getting out, and anything else getting in, it only poses a major risk if it gets dissolved in water.
-The site is arid and has almost no rain, what little rain occurs is quickly absorbed by the mountain itself.
-The water table beneath the site is far out of reach of nearly anything.
-The underground architecture of Yucca Mountain is strong enough to withstand seismic events.
-although earthquakes have occurred around the site, by the time the shock-wave makes it to Yucca Mt., very little is felt.
-Yucca Mt is one of the most studied geological sites on Earth, if the guys who have studied geology their entire life say its safe, it's safe.
-It was supposed to open 10 years ago, but once again the nuclear stigma halted the progress

and as I have said twice before now:
Nuclear waste can be reprocessed back into fuel remaining radioactive waste has a very short half-life and can be dealt with.


If you think politics is involved, think again:
most politicians want to be elected, if the people don't want nuclear, the politicians will play along staying away from nuclear since it won't get them elected. Washington has repeatedly cut billions in funding for nuclear programs in the past because people protested so enthusiastically against it. as a result, we still use a huge amount of coal.

20kg of nuclear fuel will produce the same energy as 1,500,000 kg of coal.
that means only 20 kg of nuclear waste (only 1kg of which is harmful), and 1.5 million kg of burnt coal. and coal goes into the atmosphere, at least we can contain nuclear waste.
 

Aesir

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I just wanna respond to the Yucca site argument.
Again with Yucca Mountain:
Remember what the risk is: water getting into the site. Nuclear waste is Solid and stored in containers that block radiation and waste getting out, and anything else getting in, it only poses a major risk if it gets dissolved in water.
-The site is arid and has almost no rain, what little rain occurs is quickly absorbed by the mountain itself.
-The water table beneath the site is far out of reach of nearly anything.
-The underground architecture of Yucca Mountain is strong enough to withstand seismic events.
-although earthquakes have occurred around the site, by the time the shock-wave makes it to Yucca Mt., very little is felt.
-Yucca Mt is one of the most studied geological sites on Earth, if the guys who have studied geology their entire life say its safe, it's safe.
-It was supposed to open 10 years ago, but once again the nuclear stigma halted the progress
Why Yucca is a bad idea(quick run down.)
- It doesn't eliminate on site storage, even if the site was used there would still be 40,000 tons of this stuff.
- Given climate change it's impossible to determine if Yucca will remain as airy as it is today.
- Actually transporting the materials to Yucca would be a dangerous endeavor
- We don't own yucca it belongs to another nation it belongs to the Western Shoshone Indians who are opposed to the dump. We would be breaking international treaties.

Furthermore Yucca is still susceptible to earthquakes and the rising water underneath the site it could still serve as a problem with the water becoming contaminated.


and as I have said twice before now:
Nuclear waste can be reprocessed back into fuel remaining radioactive waste has a very short half-life and can be dealt with.
Reprocessing isn't the answer it actually creates more waste that will last for tens of thousands of years. Europe has had problems in the past with reprocessing as well, much of their radiation problems come from reprocessing.
 

Johnthegalactic

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Am I the only one who thinks a rocket full of nuclear waste being shot into space is a good way to get rid of the stuff?
Just think about it, there is all this empty space where our nuclear waste can be shipped, without anyone being hurt, or the waste causing mutant mole people(saw it in the tags, lol).
Nuclear Power is all fine and good until the mutant mole people arrive and demand our women
How did I miss this post? Ok, nuclear power is a nono if we are going to have to wage war with mutant mole people just because we cannot go without Plasma TVs and Microwave ovens.
 

Aesir

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Am I the only one who thinks a rocket full of nuclear waste being shot into space is a good way to get rid of the stuff?
Just think about it, there is all this empty space where our nuclear waste can be shipped, without anyone being hurt, or the waste causing mutant mole people(saw it in the tags, lol).


Holy are you incapable of thinking? Yes it's a good idea but in order for something to be practice it has to be more then just a good idea. The cost has to out weight the risk first off, and guess what? that idea doesn't out weight the risk.

Then you have the issue of money, seriously do you know the amount of preparation that goes into a space mission? or the money? Probably not.

Do you know how much Endeavor cost? almost 2 billion. I ripped that off of nasa's website don't believe me go check it out.

So what you're proposing is (assuming it would take 3 trips to get rid of all nuclear waist) 6 billion? maybe more? Yeah real practical idea. While we're at it lets all change America into an anarcho communist state THAT'S A GOOD IDEA TOO.


/rant

<_<
 

chaos_Leader

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I just wanna respond to the Yucca site argument.


Why Yucca is a bad idea(quick run down.)
- It doesn't eliminate on site storage, even if the site was used there would still be 40,000 tons of this stuff.
- Given climate change it's impossible to determine if Yucca will remain as airy as it is today.
- Actually transporting the materials to Yucca would be a dangerous endeavor
- We don't own yucca it belongs to another nation it belongs to the Western Shoshone Indians who are opposed to the dump. We would be breaking international treaties.

Furthermore Yucca is still susceptible to earthquakes and the rising water underneath the site it could still serve as a problem with the water becoming contaminated.
-Yucca Mountain is in Nye County Nevada, there is no Native American reservation at the Yucca Mountain site. Although The Western Shoshone have historical ties with the area, the U.S. still has full legal control of the Yucca Mountain site. No treaties are broken.
-The US has transported thousands of loads of spent nuclear fuel, and not one has ever had any problems. The waste is more secure at a repository site where it can be kept track of than at on-site storage facilities.
-Yucca Mt is geologically stable, the last thing that happened was a very tiny volcanic eruption 80 thousand years ago from a now extinct volcano. the ridge of Yucca Mt was once the rim of a caldera volcano (now extinct)
-Earthquakes occur when a tectonic plate snaps back as the plates slowly grind against each other, as happens in California. At the Yucca Mt site, the tectonic deformation is slow and smooth, not a place for earthquakes.

Reprocessing isn't the answer it actually creates more waste that will last for tens of thousands of years. Europe has had problems in the past with reprocessing as well, much of their radiation problems come from reprocessing.
If you can't shoot it into space, you can't store it, and you can't recycle it there is another option:
Incinerate it

specifically, using a Tokamak machine (fusion reactor) to accelerate the nuclear decay process, the harmful isotopes of spent nuclear fuel can be changed into less harmful ones. Namely ones with short half-lives that only have to be stored a short while before they are stable, or ones with very very long half-lives that emit so little radiation that you'd get more from standing in the sun.
 

Aesir

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-Yucca Mountain is in Nye County Nevada, there is no Native American reservation at the Yucca Mountain site. Although The Western Shoshone have historical ties with the area, the U.S. still has full legal control of the Yucca Mountain site. No treaties are broken.
No the 1863 treaty clearly points out that whole area belongs to them. The US doesn't legally own it.



-The US has transported thousands of loads of spent nuclear fuel, and not one has ever had any problems. The waste is more secure at a repository site where it can be kept track of than at on-site storage facilities.
They still haven't answered the issues around transporting.
A report released in 06 by the NAS stated that several issues were left unchecked and needed to be verified before any large scale transports are to be made.

-Yucca Mt is geologically stable, the last thing that happened was a very tiny volcanic eruption 80 thousand years ago from a now extinct volcano. the ridge of Yucca Mt was once the rim of a caldera volcano (now extinct)
Extinct means, not active now and will probably not be active in the near future. That doesn't translate to "will not erupt." There have been many volcanoes in history thought to be extinct but blew anyway.

I wouldn't call it geologically stable anyway.

-Earthquakes occur when a tectonic plate snaps back as the plates slowly grind against each other, as happens in California. At the Yucca Mt site, the tectonic deformation is slow and smooth, not a place for earthquakes.
I think back in 1998 scientists found out that yucca was moving 10x faster then it has on average geological time.

You know what they say about natural hazards, if they happened once they'll happen again.

If you can't shoot it into space, you can't store it, and you can't recycle it there is another option:
Incinerate it

specifically, using a Tokamak machine (fusion reactor) to accelerate the nuclear decay process, the harmful isotopes of spent nuclear fuel can be changed into less harmful ones. Namely ones with short half-lives that only have to be stored a short while before they are stable, or ones with very very long half-lives that emit so little radiation that you'd get more from standing in the sun.
Thats news to me so I'll just take your word for it.
 

chaos_Leader

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No the 1863 treaty clearly points out that whole area belongs to them. The US doesn't legally own it.
ARTICLE 4
It is further agreed by the parties hereto, that the Shoshone Country may be explored and prospected for gold and silver, or other minerals; and when mines are discovered, they may be worked, and mining and agricultural settlements formed, and ranches established whenever they may be required. Mills may be erected and timber taken for their use, as also for building and other purposes in any part of the country claimed by said bands.

ARTICLE 2, second paragraph
Military posts may be established by the President of the United States along said routes or elsewhere in their country; and station houses may be erected and occupied at such points as may be necessary for the comfort and convenience of travelers or for mail or telegraph companies.
The Ruby Valley Treaty of 1863

The land may belong to the Shoshone, but the US government has the right to construct and operate the Yucca Mountain repository, they already have a nuclear test site just east of the Yucca Mt site

They still haven't answered the issues around transporting.
a report released in 06 by the NAS stated that several issues were left unchecked and needed to be verified before any large scale transports are to be made.
First off, that report was issued in 2003, in response to the Baltimore train tunnel fire of 2001 in which a train car with hazardous waste (not nuclear) caught fire and burned. The NAS simply stated that more tests needed to be done, and they were.
in 2006 the NRC released a report stating that no radioactive material would be released in a similar fire. Also the NRC keeps strict regulations on their shipping casks.

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/transport-spenfuel-radiomats-bg.html information on shipping casks
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/nuregs/contract/cr6886/NRC report
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spent_nuclear_fuel_shipping_cask See: Baltimore train tunnel fire
Extinct means, not active now and will probably not be active in the near future. That doesn't translate to "will not erupt." There have been many volcanoes in history thought to be extinct but blew anyway.

I wouldn't call it geologically stable anyway.


I think back in 1998 scientists found out that yucca was moving 10x faster then it has on average geological time.

You know what they say about natural hazards, if they happened once they'll happen again.
I've made my arguments on these points already.

Thats news to me so I'll just take your word for it.
Don't take my word for it, take MIT's word:
http://web.mit.edu/annualreports/pres01/13.07.html see: "Fusion-Fission Hybrids" at the bottom of the page.
 

SuperRacoon

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Again no one has answered my question, how destructive is radiation.

Uranium is mined from the earth, all Isotopes of Uranium are radioactive, which means the radioactivity was already in the earth before.

Echoing what chaos_leader said, long lived isotopes emit low radiation, probably comparable to uranium isotopes.

Very dangerous isotopes decay quickly until they are until they are long lived isotopes that emit less radiation.

So really, is nuclear waste making as big of a difference as we think?
 

Virgilijus

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I know quite a few nuclear engineers here at college and the subject of nuclear power has been the starting point of many conversations in class and whatnot. Every professor I know of here at UT is for nuclear power ( I know that sounds biased, but they are also in the definitive profession to deduce how safe the plants actually are).

I always get the feeling that nuclear power is one of those things that people are scared of and don't really know much about (outside of a quick skim through Wikipedia and the Chernobyl or Three Mile Island Incidents, the later of which had no human deaths at all). France has a very stable nuclear program right now and Japan is building God knows how many power plants. And as someone else brought up, nuclear power plants are essentially giant concrete bricks in terms of protection: there are several feet thick cement walls and guards. If a leak is found, the plant can be evacuated and completely contain the radiation without much problem.
 

Aesir

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PDF link!

http://techtran.msfc.nasa.gov/tech_ops/Fastrac_Engine.pdf

Non-PDF version
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:v3boXfMqlawJ:techtran.msfc.nasa.gov/tech_ops/Fastrac_Engine.pdf+low+cost+NASA+rocket+%241&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

Rocket, plus launch pad: $1,001,000.
By the time our new nuclear reactors are finished so should this.
Well under $2 billion dollars.
There's still preparation, costs and all that.

furthermore there's the risk the rocket might go up in flames during ascension.



edit:

Chaos_leader: I'm dropping out of the discussion. =o it's clear you know what you're talking about.

Just understand that there are legitimate concerns with the dump site and transportation issues.
 
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