NU to OU: The Next Chapter

[mood4food77]

with 165 base attack, does he really need to run adamant?

 

[Wave⁂]

You'd have to ask Mr. Calcs that.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Jolly Choice Scarf Rampardos almost always 2HKO's Skarmory with Head Smash.

Just something interesting I found.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

With a few more base speed, you can run ADAMANT Choice Scarf Rampardos and Garuntee a 2HKO on Skarm.

But Rampardos REALLY wants is Rock Head to use that Head Smash.

 

[CRASHiC]

But Rampardos is so fargile it really doesn't matter if he's taking damage from head smash.

 

[UltiMario]

At this point Rampardos is so Fragile that RP Aggron with all its great resistances and defense would end better.

...Or we could make Rampardos Rock/Steel to make it BP neutral, and unlike Aggron, can make KOs on things like Metagross.

 

[mood4food77]

rock/steel is a really bad typing

being weak to the 2 most common attack types in the game is really bad

rock/ground would be better than that

 

[CRASHiC]

Or we could not. Just try to make Rampardose what Aerodactyl use to be in 3rd gen, that's the best way to go about it. Keep the same base stat number it has now, reduce its HP and defense to OH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS??? levels and give all you take out to his speed.

Base stats:

HP: 50
Attack: 165
Defense: 40
Special Attack: 45
Special Defense: 40
Speed: 155

I specifically left it at 155 to keep it from invalidating Ninjask, I don't want to make another pokemon non-viable while making one pokemon viable. That just wouldn't seem right. Suddenly, the Sword Dance set is easily the deadliest around.

 

[mood4food77]

that's just ridiculous

you out-speed everything AND hit harder than everything
you do realize this is better than Deoxys-A, especially with this thing being pure physical

i don't care if it's as frail as a friggen candy wrapper, that's still ridiculous

base 80 speed should be the highest it should get

 

[CRASHiC]

No, its NOT a better Dexoysis A by any means. Dexoysis can run a mixed set and sweep a team. Dexoysis has better STAB, and a far better move pool. This pokemon still has plenty of counters. Anything running Bullet Punch or Aqua Jet can kill this thing stat, and we all know at least one pokemon who has that. Yes, there is Focus Sash, but that assumes that that stealth rocks aren't going to be in the way. They are going to be in the way, they almost always are. Any Choice Scarf sweeper, which are also very common, can sweep him as well.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Rampardos isn't getting base 155 Speed. Never.

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

Then how do you plan on improving it, getting it to OU status without simply becoming an inferior Rampardose, Aerodactyl, or Aggron?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I was saying Rampardos is not getting base 155 Speed since that's completely unreasonable, albeit dying to a single Bullet Punch.

Honestly, I think Rock / Ground would be much better for Rampardos. His selling point from Aerodactyl, Rhyperior, or Aggron is that he has Mold Breaker. Now he gets STAB on that Earthquake he loves so much, which can completely ruin the Rotom formes and Bronzong. A secondary Ground-type actually gives him something to switch-in on. Rock / Ground is still a terrible type combination, but with Rampardos' current defenses he'd get toppled over anyways so it doesn't really matter all too much.

A higher base Speed is definitely needed. A decent level like say, base 80 would be beneficial, but I'm not aiming for anything 100 or higher. Those are my thoughts, anyways.

-Terywj

 

[mood4food77]

psychic is a horrible STAB, what are you talking about Deoxys having a better STAB?

rock is one of the best offensive types to have, if he was rock/ground, he'd be better, giving access to perfect coverage STAB

While Deoxys can run a mixed set, Rampardos with 155 speed would still hit harder and be faster, you basically need a priority move to beat it and with Mold Breaker, there's no stopping it (i mean, 429 Atk and 440 Spe is just...ridiculous), AND HE DOESN'T NEED A CHOICE ITEM TO DEAL DAMAGE, heck, he can run focus sash and he'd still hit like a friggen truck

it would completely over-centralize the meta-game as every team would have to hold a scizor in order to beat it

 

[CRASHiC]

Nonsense. There are still many other ways to counter it.

Azumarill
Blastoise
Dewgong
Empoleon
Feraligatr
Kabutops
Qwilfish
Sharpedo
Metagross
Scizor
Hitmonchan
Mamoswine
Weavile

just to name a few, all of these pokemon can switch in and effectively OHKO with priority. Then, as I mentioned before, any pokemon running a Choice Scarf sweeper set can also switch in and OHKO him. Focus Sash is silly unless its a lead with the ever prevailing existence of entry hazards. And if you try to run it as a lead to sweep a team, Jirachi is going to be in your way with Iron Head.

I'm also fairly certain that any pokemon running Shadow Sneak can also OHKO him, but I'd have to crunch the numbers on that.

And Deoxys still hits a lot harder btw. Maybe you should look at its base stats again. 180 and with its move pool, as well as the fact that most run Life Orb, its incredibly deadly.

 

[mood4food77]

don't most of those pokes get OHKO'd by one of his moves?

empoleon and metagross by earthquake
mamoswine and weavile by headsmash/stone edge

wow, he can run this moveset:

Head Smash
Earthquake
Outrage
Fire Punch

like seriously, that's just unfair

 

[CRASHiC]

If you are claiming that pokemon will have trouble switching in on him, the same can be said of him. He can't switch in either.

 

[mood4food77]

it's not exactly the point though

you say all those pokes carry a move that can OHKO but what do all those pokes carry, a priority move

you're basically forcing yourself to select a poke that has a SE priority move, and most of those pokes aren't very good in OU and even then, outside of scizor and metagross, the other pokes aren't that good in OU and have a hard time switching in

 

[UltiMario]

The only thing Rampardos honestly cares about is outspeeding normal threats and not dying to Scizor.

Remedying those two problems will raise it to OU. Another fact with my Rock/Steel idea is that its AMAZING defensive typing when you throw in the fact with Rampardos' attack stat very little can switch, survive, and kill it.

The only way to make Rampardos OU and NOT be Rhyperior but better is to make it Aggron but better.

My recommended changes are dumping SpA base stat points into Spe to make it 70 Spe, give it Rock head, and Steel/Rock typing, maybe dump some points from Special Defense and SpA into Defense, there OU.

I dare someone to create a more effecient method.

 

[CRASHiC]

it's not exactly the point though

you say all those pokes carry a move that can OHKO but what do all those pokes carry, a priority move

you're basically forcing yourself to select a poke that has a SE priority move, and most of those pokes aren't very good in OU and even then, outside of scizor and metagross, the other pokes aren't that good in OU and have a hard time switching in

Its ANY priority move though. Extreme Speed might even kill him. Its not just super effective. Priority moves are fairly common in today's metgame mind you.

Remedying those two problems will raise it to OU. Another fact with my Rock/Steel idea is that its AMAZING defensive typing when you throw in the fact with Rampardos' attack stat very little can switch, survive, and kill it.

What the **** are you talking about? The Rock/Steel typing is the ONLY thing keeping Aggron from OU. It has the stats, the movepool, the abliity, it just suffers from the "amazing" defense typing you want to give to Rampardose. Sorry, but no thanks. That's not going to solve anything but simply CHANGE his problems. Honestly, all you are doing is making a worse Aggron.

 

[mood4food77]

yea, rock/steel is horrible

it ruins aggron, probopass, and sheildon

being 4x weak to the 2 most common attack types in the metagame is a real killer

we could give him a weird typing like...rock/dragon and that would give him some extra bulk

 

[Circa]

yea, rock/steel is horrible

it ruins aggron, probopass, and sheildon

being 4x weak to the 2 most common attack types in the metagame is a real killer

we could give him a weird typing like...rock/dragon and that would give him some extra bulk

2/3 of those were ruined before they were even given the steel-typing for a secondary.

And basically all of you are proving the reason why I almost never enter this thread. "We need to make him a better Aggron, not a better Rhyperior." That statement is redundant, because Rhyperior is basically a better Aggron (bar in Ubers, where Aggron is actually better due to type coverage, a higher speed, and being able to make Lugia its set-up *****). So basically, just do the simple and take UltiMario's SAtk -> Spe suggestion and give it Rock/Ground for a typing already. Because it's that ****ing simple, and you should care less about making a better version of a Pokemon that's only UU.

 

[CRASHiC]

Writer, that's not what I said at all. You are taking what I said out of context. I meant that he was worse than a rather poor UU pokemon, and I'm against making a pokemon that adds nothing new to the metagame. It doesn't have to be drastic, it could be a pokemon filling a familiar role but with a typing not yet filling that role, but making a pokemon a worse version of a pokemon that already exist is not accomplishing anything.

 

[mood4food77]

you're trying to make something faster than Deoxys-A who can deal roughly the same amount of damage with respective item choices (since Deoxys-A is almost always going mixed)

oh, and both are frail as can be and Deoxys-A has to have a -Def nature

 

[UltiMario]

Scizor STILL ruins Rampardos so badly that all you have to do is switch in on the ***** and obliterate it, which in this kind of Metagame ALONE can ruin it.

Also, Aggron is WAY better in OU then Rhyperior. I've played with SS teams enough to know that for a fact. At least Aggron has a neat gimmick to hit harder than Rampardos does now with that Rock Head-Head Smash of his.

But I still think Rock Head NEEDS to be at LEAST a second ability or else Rampardos still has NOTHING over Rhyperior or Aggron because his base 165 attack is simply out shined by it inability to do anything without killing itself.

Edit: Rock/Steel typing is amazing. Rock lets the steel down defensively, but Rock is NEEDED for the offense for that Head Smash. Aggron wouldn't even have the tools to be UU without that Rock/Steel typing. It doesn't work out without it at all.

 

[mood4food77]

scizor still ruins deoxys-A and that's uber

 

[Wave⁂]

Base Speed: 62 (one more than Tyranitar)

Rampardos @ Life Orb / Babiri Berry
Jolly / Rock Head
252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP
Head Smash
Earthquake
Ice Punch / Fire Punch
Dragon Dance

 

[Circa]

I never said you were the one who said that. I generalized (thus the 'basically all of you' part), because I believe quite a few have said it at this point.

Adding something new to the metagame is hard to do, because in a lot of cases you're either making something that more than likely won't work or you're making something that people say "Oh **** that's broken" even if it's not, and it gets rejected by the masses.

All in all, people are stupid. Although technically, adding ANYTHING that's NU/UU to the OU metagame is going to be something new. Reason being is that if it can fit in there and be a threat, then the metagame has to adjust to it in some way, shape, or form. Even if it's minor. And that difference will be your 'new'.

Unless you mean a 'deeper' new, which you essentially won't get without going gimmicky or waiting until B/W.

 

[UltiMario]

scizor still ruins deoxys-A and that's uber

Rampardos doesn't have 180Atk, SpA, and 150 Spe to make up for it.

 

[mood4food77]

i'm talking about Crashic's proposal of giving Rampardos base 155 speed

 

[CRASHiC]

you're trying to make something faster than Deoxys-A who can deal roughly the same amount of damage with respective item choices (since Deoxys-A is almost always going mixed)

oh, and both are frail as can be and Deoxys-A has to have a -Def nature

He's not faster, and giving him a choice item will make him even worse. Now he's only BL with a choice item, because he's super Scizor weak. Fire punch is ONLY good for Scizor basically. So, Scizor switches in and OHKOs with a Pursuit when he uses anything besides Fire Punch. You are drastically overrating this pokemon simply because you see high numbers.

But I still think Rock Head NEEDS to be at LEAST a second ability or else Rampardos still has NOTHING over Rhyperior or Aggron because his base 165 attack is simply out shined by it inability to do anything without killing itself.

And so, to give him something over Aggron you give him Aggron's ability?

Edit: The only problem Aggron has with that Rock/Steel typing is ground moves. Quite honestly without that the typing would be amazing.

Yes, because fighting and water attacks are never around to ruin the fun either for you I suppose.

 

[mood4food77]

i didn't say choice item
i said respective item choices (like both using a Choice item, Life-Orb, etc)

he would still over-centralize the game as you are now forced to carry something with a priority move

 

[UltiMario]

I re-edited to that last statement to this before you posted after thinking about it.
Oh, and BTW, there is NOTHING in OU that can kill Aggron with a Fighting move since NOBODY uses Mach Punch EVER. Also SUICUNE is like the only thing in OU that can fire off a Water move AND take a Head Smash, and the EQ list comes down to the Scarfers and most physically bulky Pokemon in the entire Metagame. Also yeah, if you don't give Rampardos a reliable Head Smash, he is simply outclassed by Aggron, so the only way to outclass Aggron is to beat it at its own game.

For the changed statement...

"Rock/Steel typing is amazing. Rock lets the steel down defensively, but Rock is NEEDED for the offense for that Head Smash. Aggron wouldn't even have the tools to be UU without that Rock/Steel typing. It doesn't work out without it at all."

 

[CRASHiC]

@mood4food

Bulky ground and pokemon counter him. Even with stealth rocks in place, he isn't guaranteed a 2HKO on Swampert. So, as long as your team has a bulky ground, a choice scarf sweeper, anything that can take a single hit and then tap him on the head, or a pokemon with any priority move, you're good.

 

[supermarth64]

Nonsense. There are still many other ways to counter it.

Azumarill - can't switch in
Blastoise - can't switch in
Dewgong - can't switch in
Empoleon - takes a ton from CB Head Smash (80-90% about)
Feraligatr - can't switch in
Kabutops - can't switch in
Qwilfish - can't switch in
Sharpedo - can't switch in
Metagross - Takes 50% from CB Head Smash, needs Bullet Punch in order to check (non-leads and non-Trapper Metagross don't)
Scizor - can't switch in
Hitmonchan - can't switch in
Mamoswine - can't switch in
Weavile - can't switch in
Know your terminology first. Counter = can switch in and threaten it immediately, check = comes in afterwards.

just to name a few, all of these pokemon can switch in and effectively OHKO with priority. Then, as I mentioned before, any pokemon running a Choice Scarf sweeper set can also switch in and OHKO him. Focus Sash is silly unless its a lead with the ever prevailing existence of entry hazards. And if you try to run it as a lead to sweep a team, Jirachi is going to be in your way with Iron Head.
155 Base Speed Jolly beats +1 neutral base 100s and up to Scarf Rotom-A. Base 155 Speed Adamant beats +1 Jolly Smeargle and +1 Kingdra/Heracross. You'd be forced to run a Scarf 100+, and that's after it KOes something.

I'm also fairly certain that any pokemon running Shadow Sneak can also OHKO him, but I'd have to crunch the numbers on that.
Dusknoir Shadow Sneak vs min/min your Rampardos:
243 Atk vs 116 Def & 241 HP (40 Base Power): 91 - 108 (37.76% - 44.81%)
It's not switching in btw. It gets KOed by Jolly CB Head Smash.

If you are claiming that pokemon will have trouble switching in on him, the same can be said of him. He can't switch in either.

Here's a list of offensive (not defensive, those are obvious) moves it can switch in on (no Sandstorm):
Blissey: Seismic Toss, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt
Breloom: Toxic'd Facade.
Celebi: HP Fire, HP Ice
Dragonite: Flamethrower, Fire Blast, +0 Dragon Claw, CB Fire Punch
Dusknoir: Fire/Ice/ThunderPunch, Shadow Punch, Shadow Sneak
Electivire: HP Ice, Flamethrower
Forretress: Payback, Rapid Spin
Gengar: HP Fire
Infernape: Fire Blast, HP Ice
Jolteon: HP Ice, Shadow Ball

Ok I lost my attention span. Either way, it is not as hard as you think it is to get it in.

Its ANY priority move though. Extreme Speed might even kill him. Its not just super effective. Priority moves are fairly common in today's metgame mind you.
+0 Life Orb Extremespeed from Lucario (since you're revenge killing)
350 Atk vs 116 Def & 241 HP (80 Base Power): 112 - 132 (46.47% - 54.77%)
Oh looks like you're not revenge killing after all.

Just my statement.

 

[CRASHiC]

How's he going to get in on Breloom? Isn't Breloom either going to be spore-ing, or behind/setting up a sub?

Though I see your other numbers, just confused about the Breloom part.

 

[supermarth64]

There's a no-Substitute Breloom set that's Spore/Superpower/Seed Bomb/Facade. I personally haven't used it, but users like Legacy Raider can vouch for its effectiveness.

Also, here's a list of Pokemon in OU that aren't OHKOed/2HKOed by CB Head Smash.

Hippowdon
Swampert

... Bare list we have there.

 

[CRASHiC]

There's a no-Substitute Breloom set that's Spore/Superpower/Seed Bomb/Facade. I personally haven't used it, but users like Legacy Raider can vouch for its effectiveness.

Sounds like a good lure, might give it a swing.

 

[Wave⁂]

Swampert is a hard Rampardos counter, no? UNTIL WE GIVE HIM LEAF BLADE

 

[CRASHiC]

**** it, let's just change the name to from NU to Uber.