NU to OU: The Next Chapter

[Terywj [태리]]

With those moves, the base attack of Persian is not being boosted, correct?

-Terywj

 

[Circa]

Well I thought it'd need more, but I guess not. This was essentially a quickie version of what I wanted to do to Persian. The point of it is to give Persian more than one valid set and better type coverage, as right now its coverage is kind of bad.

HP: 70
Attack: 110
Defense: 65
Special Attack: 90
Special Defense: 70
Speed: 115
Total: 520

Bulk Up
Heat Wave
Pounce - 60 BP; 20% chance of paralysis. Exclusive to Cat-like Pokemon.
Quick Attack/Extremespeed
Sucker Punch

Like I said, I simply wanted to make it a bit more versatile. Heat Wave will deal with basically any Steels apart from Heatran, Pounce gives it a Technician option that's slightly stronger than Body Slam, the choice between Quick Attack and Extremespeed hasn't been decided yet, and Sucker Punch is for dealing with Scarf Rotom, as well as if someone decides they'd prefer Limber Persian for a Bulk Up set as opposed to Technician Persian (the benefit being that you can set up on T-Wave Blissey, among other things). Bulk Up is something that I thought could be quite interesting on Persian, considering its Speed and actually having a decent Attack stat now. I would've gone Swords Dance, but I figured that would be pushing it a little too far aesthetically. I considered Low Kick (which would give it a way to handle Tyranitar better, as well as Heatran), but once again I don't know if it fit in. Mixed in with Persian's already pretty ****ing versatile movepool, it could now run quite a few different sets, as well as variants of these sets.

I guess Ulti's idea works too (even though about 20% of the metagame walls him, sets up, and proceeds to do nasty **** after he switches out), but I figured mine would be a little more interesting. So I posted it.

 

[UltiMario]

Introducing a completely new move sorta voids your idea, I think the point is to make it OU within current Metagame boundaries.

With those moves, the base attack of Persian is not being boosted, correct?

-Terywj

This question is rather vague. Persian could already learn Bite, Seed Bomb, and Fake Out, and only gets extremespeed for a new move if that is part of it. Base 130 Attack is also a boost Persian NEEDS so it can abuse those moves.

 

[Circa]

Introducing a completely new move sorta voids your idea, I think the point is to make it OU within current Metagame boundaries.

It's not even needed tbh. It's just there because you seemed to want valid Technician abuse, and that at least provides a minor usage of it. Body Slam only has 5 less base power, but a 10% higher chance of paralysis. Thus, you're really just deciding between a higher chance of useful hax or a very slight increase in power. And if you really wanted the power, you could just go Return anyway. Pounce would be like a medium if you chose Technician.

Part of me doesn't even think Technician is really all that beneficial for Persian, bar Fake Out and Bite. For the most part you can do better things to Persian's movepool than just try to abuse Technician, thanks to it being Normal-type (it kinda gives it almost unlimited access to moves).

I love how you saw one brand new move and considered the suggestion void, even though the move is of the most minuscule importance compared to the rest of those listed; and the move was really only added because everyone else is only paying attention to the Technician side of things. Good job at assessing my post.

 

[UltiMario]

You're also complaining about how 20% of the tier walls my Persian...

When it does tons of damage to the other 80% :V

 

[Wave⁂]

...or we could give it 125 SpAtk with Swift, Water Pulse, HP Fire 60 / Flamethrower / Ominous Wind / Vacuum Wave.

 

[UltiMario]

That doesn't have Double Free Priority though.

:V

 

[Wave⁂]

It carves out a niche as a specially boosting Technician Nasty Plot user, though.

Also give it Simple for ****s and giggles

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'd actually rather see Persian in a unique niche of its own than following in another.

And no it's not because I like Ambipom so much, rather that the OU Metagame is overcentralized on physical prowess, and special attackers need much more merit.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

The problem with Special attacks is that Blissey exists.

That is the main reason why OU is mostly physical. Same with UU. NU is mostly special without fat sponges down there.

Just sayin'

 

[Circa]

You're also complaining about how 20% of the tier walls my Persian...

When it does tons of damage to the other 80% :V

Well when you consider the fact that this specific 20% has approximately 40% of its members in the top 10 and approximately 70% of its members in the top 20, I'd gladly argue that your 80% isn't exactly going to be out there 80% of the time, and that the meager 20% is going to make a much bigger difference than you seem to realize.

I agree with Terywj. That's kinda why I thought of Bulk Up. It's something that basically nothing in OU can call its own (things may use SD or CM or something, but never Bulk Up; bar Machamp who usually uses other stuff anyway), and it's something that Persian could really do something with. Sure it fills the same role of 'sweeper' that a lot of other things fill, but it at least does it in a different way. Also, I'd like to mention Persian's already pretty awesome support movepool. Switcheroo, Taunt, Hypnosis...it's got more going for it than being a simple sweeper. You just have to find a way to utilize them at their fullest.

 

[CRASHiC]

The problem with Special attacks is that Blissey exists.

That is the main reason why OU is mostly physical. Same with UU. NU is mostly special without fat sponges down there.

Just sayin'

Blissey can also be a way to set up though. You can abuse Blissey just as much as Blissey can abuse you.

 

[mood4food77]

it still walls special attacks to no end
nothing with Life Orb can OHKO it without using NP

only 1 Choice Specs user has the chance to:
Choice Specs Modest Lucario 252 SpA using Focus Blast against 0 HP 0 SpD -SpD Blissey: 86.6%-102.3%

that's the best you can get without using Nasty Plot, which pretty much means that you're not OHKOing that ***** bag with a special move unless you boost up your SpA and use either Focus Blast or Aura Sphere

so yea...it's not happening

 

[CRASHiC]

Not the point. Running Blissey can hurt your team just as much as help it. Blissey existed heavily in past generations, even more so, but special sweepers still dominated 3rd gen.

 

[Wave⁂]

Okay, here's the plan:
We make a team that is NOT six Nasty Plot Persians.
Problem solved.

 

[UltiMario]

You forget Specs Download Boosted/Adaptability Pory-Z Hyperbeam.

That can OHKO Blissey as well.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

We make a Pokemon who has base 150 Special Attack, and possesses the ability to give a 1.25X boost to any neutral hit.

And it will be Normal-type.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

Reminds me of Choice Specs Adaptability P-Z.

Does about the same damage in the long run.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Fine. It will be Ghost-type.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

Conversion P-Z

 

[ss118]

You forget Specs Download Boosted/Adaptability Pory-Z Hyperbeam.

That can OHKO Blissey as well.

Least Sp. Defensive Blissey taking Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Hyper Beam:

607 Atk vs 306 Def & 689 HP (150 Base Power): 426 - 502 (61.83% - 72.86%)

Same Blissey taking Specs Download Porygon-Z Hyper Beam:

910 Atk vs 306 Def & 689 HP (150 Base Power): 478 - 564 (69.38% - 81.86%)

A combination of both Download, Adaptability, and Specs(however this is possible):

910 Atk vs 306 Def & 689 HP (150 Base Power): 638 - 752 (92.60% - 109.14%)

 

[UltiMario]

Owait I'm thinking of NP P-Z

Dammit

 

[Terywj [태리]]

+4 Life Orb Modest Lucario will always KO Blissey with Aura Sphere when Stealth Rock is up.



-Terywj

 

[Terywj [태리]]

This needs a bump.

May I suggest the following Pokemon?

-Terywj

 

[mood4food77]

i don't now much that could really save him
he's too slow to really be OU and he has a ****ty typing

he's ****** none-the-less

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Giving him 105 / 110 / 100 defenses fits his look and could help him out a little, although the typing is Terybad.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

I suggest giving him 150SpA and 126 Spe and give him adaptability.

You can't fix him any other way.

 

[Pink Reaper]

It should be noted that STAB Ground/Fire is ****ing ridiculous. ONLY resisted by Dragons and Fire/Flying types.

 

[mood4food77]

only resisted by dragon, water, fire, and rock types that are coupled with either levitate or flying type

so basically:
dragonite
salamence
flygon
altaria
charizard
moltres
gyarados
mantine
pellipper
aerodactyl

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I believe one of the more successful type combinations is Ice / Ground right? Bronzong is the only Pokemon which outright resists it, while Magnezone can if it uses Magnet Rise.

Fire / Ground is still valuable. Who uses Pelipper and Mantine anyways? Aerodactly is a lead and is pretty much gone by the time you bring Camerupt in.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

The problem is that Salamence, Dragonite, Flygon, and Gyarados are on that list.

 

[Pink Reaper]

That's cool, HP Ice still exists.

Now the list is just Gyarados.

 

[Wave⁂]

Camerupt used Stone Edge.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Mixed Camerupt is now happyface.

Just step up his defenses a bit and boost his attacking stats. Who cares about speed.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

I suggest Power Gem to be added to Camerupt's movepool. Intimidate makes Stone Edge useless and a half.

Camerupt also needs at MINIMUM Base 105 Speed.

Camerupt@Choice Scarf
Timid/Solid Rock
4HP/252SpA/252Spe
Eruption/Fire Blast
Earth Power
HP Ice
Power Gem


Good in theory.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Camels. Fast

..........

 

[UltiMario]

If its slow it needs like 150/150/150 Defenses to take a hit and do anything.

 

[Wave⁂]

Bulky mixed sweeper. Interesting.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Bulky mixed sweeper. Interesting.

I support this notion.

-Terywj

 

[Circa]

That's cool, HP Ice still exists.

Now the list is just Gyarados.

And with no EV investment and a neutral nature, every non-bulky Gyarados is a gauranteed OHKO by Explosion after SR; after Intimidate takes effect.

So I guess we really have nothing at this point. Hm.

Also, Camerupt has Solid Rock for an ability. Just throwing that out there for the defensive aspect.