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Not Everyone from Brawl/Melee will return... few 3rd party characters

Johnknight1

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To be fair he never outright said cuts, only that the 3DS could cause some problems. This could mean cuts, less newcomers, or less content in order to make room. Now that a Universal roster is confirmed it could turn out to be anything.

Let's not go crazy and start acting "Cut Happy."
They could just make the game digital only, or make it to where many features could only be downloaded (for free hopefully). The 3DS has a 8 GB limit, which is about what limits Brawl had. Maybe that's why the textures for stages are all direct ports from other games.

This also better not hold back Smash Wii U, otherwise these two games are gonna not sale anywhere near as much as Melee or Brawl.
 

Vann Accessible

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Ganondorf needs his own moveset dammit. With a hover jump from OoT, a la Peach, and energy balls.

The OoT remake on 3DS gives me hope.
 

volbound1700

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Yeah we may get 50 something but if we get cuts that stinks. It already stunk enough with Brawl and to me was the most dissappointing part about Brawl.
 

VelenZiga

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No that's still likely.

Most people are overreacting.

Somehow I doubt they could fit that many characters onto the 3DS version without problems.

Didn't Sakurai say there would be less this time?
 

Chiroz

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Zelda/Sheik, ZSS/Samus, and the PT.

Those aren't dual characters, it means how to code a computer doing your very moves, having another % programming her AI and all that.

"...facing some challenges in terms of how to accommodate characters that incorporate more than one fighter, such as the Ice Climbers."

I think this post actually means they are in danger of being cut.
 

Spelt

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Limited compared to what the wii u is capable of, which is obviously quite a bit higher than the 3ds. The 3ds can still handle a lot, though.
 

Chiroz

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Somehow I doubt they could fit that many characters onto the 3DS version without problems.

Didn't Sakurai say there would be less this time?

Well DS takes 8 GB games, which is exactly what Brawl was, considering the SSE took about half of Brawl's data...

(correct me if I am wrong in this but in my country people were able to hack the game into a 1-sided disk (not a dual-sided disk like Brawl) with all of the characters but it only had VS mode, it had nothing else, so I am assuming SSE and 1 player modes took half of the data)

...I imagine that we could have more characters than in Brawl roster, but just a few more, say about 40? About 45 with transformations?
 

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They could just make the game digital only, or make it to where many features could only be downloaded (for free hopefully). The 3DS has a 8 GB limit, which is about what limits Brawl had. Maybe that's why the textures for stages are all direct ports from other games.

This also better not hold back Smash Wii U, otherwise these two games are gonna not sale anywhere near as much as Melee or Brawl.
And Brawl had 7 cut characters among other things that were cut. Uprising/Tekken 3D/Super Street Fighter IV 3D only used 2 GB carts, we also had a Wii port with additional content with Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D. The largest 3DS games so far have used only 4 GB according to this article from last year. If there's still an untapped 4 GBs I don't think we should be completely worried.

Seeing as the roster will be the same for both versions but not everything else, I severely doubt Sakurai (or any other developer in his shoes) would handicap the Wii U version's core gameplay when such numerous options exist. There's also the free DLC route by having a forced update when you first install/insert/play the game through the 3DS eShop which I believe has unlimited file sizes and allows for patches (ex. MK7).
 

Johnknight1

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Those aren't dual characters, it means how to code a computer doing your very moves, having another % programming her AI and all that.

"...facing some challenges in terms of how to accommodate characters that incorporate more than one fighter, such as the Ice Climbers."

I think this post actually means they are in danger of being cut.
That's a quote from an IGN staffer, not Sakurai. And yes, the PT are kinda sorta a dual character, as they come out in the same time via a Final Smash. Also, the switching/transformation mechanic technically is "more than one fighter," regardless of what you or IGN says about it. Maybe it's not the type of mechanic Sakurai is referring to, but it is definitely "more than one fighter."
 

Hong

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I assume that some of the redundancy will be gathered up and used to improve the roster by better defining existing characters.

For example, the Wii Fit Trainer could very well replace Sheik. No she is not the same character and the animations are different, but the general character idea is similar. I am not saying this is the way it is going to be, but you can only have so many fragile speedsters without fancy tools (ala space animals) before you run into issues of trying to make them diverse. Going on this tangent, I would not be bothered if Jigglypuff's aerial prowess was granted to Kirby and Ike's hard-hitting swordsmanship was given to Ganondorf (though Chrom will likely replace Ike instead).

What I am getting at is you can sacrifice some characters that had underwhelming designs to create fewer meaningful choices. As long as we have 25+ characters, there is a diverse selection. Don't get me wrong, fanservice is important, but with all the key franchises covered and ****ing MEGA MAN, at this point the key focus should be on a GOOD game with varied, unique and interesting characters. With that said, I am interested to see what will become of Luigi and Ganondorf. I really hope to see some swords or sorcery from the latter.
 

Spelt

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I think 45 characters is reasonable. 50 may be pushing it a little.

3ds limitations will probably be more around the story (if there even is one) and available modes and stuff. Also smaller things like the extra effects they're adding onto attacks in the wii u version that weren't there in the 3ds version.
 

Johnknight1

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Guy's, Brawl's roster took up about 2 GB on the game disc, which is only 1/4th the memory. Calm down. The SSE and all the game modes actually take up most of the memory. If anything is cut, it's probably that.
And Brawl had 7 cut characters among other things that were cut. Uprising/Tekken 3D/Super Street Fighter IV 3D only used 2 GB carts, we also had a Wii port with additional content with Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D. The largest 3DS games so far have used only 4 GB according to this article from last year. If there's still an untapped 4 GBs I don't think we should be completely worried.
But Sakurai said he wanted that game to be more "personal." I imagine that means more single-player stuff. Also, we don't know the cost of it, but a 8 GB cartridge might cost a lot more.
Seeing as the roster will be the same for both versions but not everything else, I severally doubt Sakurai (or any other developer in his shoes) would handicap the Wii U version's core gameplay when such notorious options exist. There's also the free DLC route by having a forced update when you first install/insert/play the game through the 3DS eShop which I believe has unlimited file sizes and allows for patches (ex. MK7).
That's what I'm saying. People need to chill out in that regard. It's not the end of the world, and we're not getting the Wii U Smash compromised. Sakurai is smarter than that, and so is Namco Bandai. If anything, they'll delay the game (remember when I said I think a delay will likely happen =???), possibly into 2015. They might even just focus on one game now (probably the 3DS Smash game, and solving it's issue) moreso than the other game, and then focus on the other game entirely afterwards.
 

EdreesesPieces

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Ganondorf hasn't been in a game for 7 years, so he has a chance of going.
he's in Wind Waker HD remake which is about to come out. Doubt they remove a character that's actually in a Wii U game.

Lol Ganon is still the iconic villian to one of Nintendo's flagship franchises. You guys are kidding yourself if you think he has any chance of being gone.
 

Chiroz

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That's a quote from an IGN staffer, not Sakurai. And yes, the PT are kinda sorta a dual character, as they come out in the same time via a Final Smash. Also, the switching/transformation mechanic technically is "more than one fighter," regardless of what you or IGN says about it. Maybe it's not the type of mechanic Sakurai is referring to, but it is definitely "more than one fighter."

Yes, but coding more than one fighter in one character is the same as coding another independent fighter. Coding Sheik is the same as coding Luigi, there is no difference except having to make the ability to switch in between Sheik and Zelda.

Coding Nana on the other hand has many technical aspects and AI processing and is completely different to making an ability to switch between 2 characters.

PT's Final Smash is basically a cinematic but I don't know how it works so I have no idea if it is actually doing anything with the characters.
 

Spire

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Removing Ganondorf is like removing Bowser. They're equally iconic, though Bowser has appeared in more games (see: just about every Mario spin-off game). While Bowser is the obvious big bad, Ganondorf is always the hidden big bad. That's their nature in Super Mario, Legend of Zelda, and Smash Bros. Ganondorf cannot go.
 

Johnknight1

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Limits 25GB WiiU disc to 4GB 3DS Cartridge....MIND BLOWN...
The Brawl characters took up about 2 GB. That's not that much. And the limit is 8GB, not including downloads.

The stuff that takes up most of the memory in Brawl was the game modes and story mode and cut scenes, so y'all need to calm down.

The only character issues is programming issues. The Namco Bandai team is probably fairly unfamiliar with the 3DS' hardware and software, so I imagine Nintendo will assist them with this. Perhaps it is time for HAL to help with Smash again... or it's time for us to be patient and wait!!!
 

Spire

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Perhaps it's time that Nintendo hires on competitive smashers to help develop the series. That's what a lot of Western developers do with their competitive franchises.
 

Johnknight1

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^^^^^^^^^^^^ No, they need programming help with Smash 3DS, not balancing help. That's an unrelated issue for another topic (although I agree to an extent).
Yes, but coding more than one fighter in one character is the same as coding another independent fighter. Coding Sheik is the same as coding Luigi, there is no difference except having to make the ability to switch in between Sheik and Zelda.
While I agree the coding is much different, there still could be some complications. That's all I was saying btw. Programming issues are weird that way.
Coding Nana on the other hand has many technical aspects and AI processing and is completely different to making an ability to switch between 2 characters.
Perhaps the best way around this is to literally just have Nana right behind Popo, and make it to where like she's in the background (3D) with Popo, and she only dies when he dies.
PT's Final Smash is basically a cinematic but I don't know how it works so I have no idea if it is actually doing anything with the characters.
This could be something that is "cut" and merely simplified to some super attack for each Pokémon. It might be a processing issue in this regard.
 

Spire

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This Ice Climbers problem is bull****. They got it right twice before, they shouldn't cut them because they can't make it work a third time. But... if they do get cut, hopefully Sakurai will recognize the great misfortunate that such a loss represents and give us what even he can't fathom working in exchange: Ridley.
 

Chiroz

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How much memory does the 3DS have? Does it take SD cards? I mean they could technically do day 1 free DLC just to fit in more characters, I see no wrong with that (as long as its free)
 

volbound1700

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This Ice Climbers problem is bull****. They got it right twice before, they shouldn't cut them because they can't make it work a third time. But... if they do get cut, hopefully Sakurai will recognize the great misfortunate that such a loss represents and give us what even he can't fathom working in exchange: Ridley.
Now you are against cuts
 

Amazing Ampharos

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I interpreted that remark less as "the 3DS imposes a numeric limit on the number of characters we can implement" and more as "the 3DS has limits as a system, and it makes it hard to include certain characters". The context of the question was whether we could expect all of our favorites from Melee and Brawl to return. We already knew that not every character would return, but it's premature to think we're going to see some seriously draconian cuts here.
 

Johnknight1

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If you guys were really paying attention, you'd notice that the backgrounds on the 3DS stages are all imports to save memory. Hence why the Spirit Track Spirit Train stage looks so bare-boned; it's literally just a DS port.
This Ice Climbers problem is bull****. They got it right twice before, they shouldn't cut them because they can't make it work a third time.
It's a different kind of technology on the 3DS though. They will probably fix it, but they'll need outsider help. I think HAL Laboratories is good on that kind of stuff, or perhaps even Intelligent Games, the Pokémon Company, or Game Freak.
 

volbound1700

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@ AMazing Ampharos - We had 5 cuts between Melee and Brawl including one character with a unique moveset that was popular (Mewtwo). I would say that is a serious cut. Could get the same here.
 
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