Not Everyone from Brawl/Melee will return... few 3rd party characters

[Spire]

Now you are against cuts

When they're trying to make a character work but cut them because they can't figure out how, that's just a shame. When they decidedly cut a character because they recognize they don't stand strong enough, that's different. That's intent, not failure.

I guess you possess the dire opposite view: a character should only get cut if the hardware for whatever reason can't support them; otherwise they must stay. I'm just very interested in decisions and the roster is the pinnacle of decisive game development.

I don't want the Ice Climbers to get cut if they're being developed! But if they have to, so be it. Hopefully in their place we'll get something equally worthy, even if the character plays entirely differently.

 

[Gamingboy]

Please, we will probably NOT see fewer than Brawl. Remember, while the 3DS Cartridge may not have as much space as a Wii U disk, remember that the 3DS version's characters, stages, items, etc. won't be as large due to the fact the graphics aren't as good. They will fit in at least 35 slots on the screen, and they could well add more (although not the "45-50" range some people were spitballing).

 

[Cool Daddy Booty Funk]

I'm excited to see who gets sacrificed for the greater good

Yeah its important old Nintendo fighters get cut for interesting new characters like WFT. You know, ones that had a high level of demand.

 

[Johnknight1]

Guys, about 120 songs = ~1 GB of memory. Make that stuff DLC Nintendo! C'mon!!!
Characters in Brawl = ~2 GB
All the other stuff = ~5.6 GB

Stop worrying about characters now guys, other than perhaps the Ice Climbers. We're fine. If they run into space limits, they got DLC. And if the production is expensive, they can bump up the price to $50, which is okay by me.

How much memory does the 3DS have? Does it take SD cards? I mean they could technically do day 1 free DLC just to fit in more characters, I see no wrong with that (as long as its free)

The 3DS can have up to 8GB cartridges, but no game yet has ever used a cartridge that can hold more than 4GB.

And yes, saving memory to the 3DS memory card or a SD card is a solution thankfully. Hopefully if things come to the worst and there's no memory, Nintendo just makes the songs, the stages, the story mode, and the extra modes DLC so everyone wins (hopefully free DLC). DLC could end up being our saving grace.

 

[Dark Phazon]

But Ridley cant fit on 8GB Cartridge DONT YOU UNDERSTAND ,!!!!

 

[Kantrip]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/smash-bros-wii-u-3ds-might-not-release-at-the-same-time


Ice Climbers confirmed.... and possibly another dual character?!

Diddy and Dixie team confirmed?

 

[Chiroz]

I interpreted that remark less as "the 3DS imposes a numeric limit on the number of characters we can implement" and more as "the 3DS has limits as a system, and it makes it hard to include certain characters". The context of the question was whether we could expect all of our favorites from Melee and Brawl to return. We already knew that not every character would return, but it's premature to think we're going to see some seriously draconian cuts here.

Actually guys, read this:

"The reality of the situation unfortunately is that there are certain limitations on the 3DS," Sakurai said. The 3DS and Wii U versions of the next Smash Bros will have the same library of characters.
"So we're forced into the situation where we may need to reduce some characters to a certain degree. but we're really working hard in order to include as many characters as possible."

I think Ampharos is actually right, Sakurai was talking about people like Ice Climbers and maybe PT having to be "reduced", so maybe its not the number of characters, maybe its the difficulty in coding them, reducing them might mean cutting Nana as an idea and having Popo be by himself.

 

[Spire]

Yeah its important old Nintendo fighters get cut for interesting new characters like WFT. You know, ones that had a high level of demand.

Sure, why not? I'm all for new experiences, not just a rehashing of the old. I'd be fine if they threw out half of Brawl's roster in favor of totally new characters—so long as they bore importance to Nintendo's history. WFT is honestly important and while she may not represent the 'core gamer' like Ridley does, she represents the past 5 years of the company, like it or not. I see it as Sakurai taking a vapid aspect of "casual Nintendo" and bringing it into the core, essentially strengthening the relationship between Nintendo's flagship franchises and the newer ones that either: a) don't appeal to a core gamer, or b) haven't soaked in yet.

 

[Chiroz]

But Ridley cant fit on 8GB Cartridge DONT YOU UNDERSTAND ,!!!!

I lol'ed at this.

 

[Latias]

Actually guys, read this:

"The reality of the situation unfortunately is that there are certain limitations on the 3DS," Sakurai said. The 3DS and Wii U versions of the next Smash Bros will have the same library of characters.
"So we're forced into the situation where we may need to reduce some characters to a certain degree. but we're really working hard in order to include as many characters as possible."

I think Ampharos is actually right, Sakurai was talking about people like Ice Climbers and maybe PT having to be "reduced", so maybe its not the number of characters, maybe its the difficulty in coding them, reducing them might mean cutting Nana as an idea and having Popo be by himself.

You're ignoring the "working hard in order to include as many characters as possible"

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sakurai has always done that since Melee (Smash 64 was something of an experiment).

I think Ampharos is actually right, Sakurai was talking about people like Ice Climbers and maybe PT having to be "reduced", so maybe its not the number of characters, maybe its the difficulty in coding them, reducing them might mean cutting Nana as an idea and having Popo be by himself.

Exactly. Worse comes to worse, we lose an Ice Climber (not both), the PT gets split/a new Final Smash, and we have to download much of the game. Batta bang, batta boom, let's go home and stop worrying.

Besides, characters = ~1/4th of the memory space.

Y'all need to stop panicking and running around all crazy like chickens with your heads cut off!

 

[Hong]

The 3DS can have up to 8GB cartridges, but no game yet has ever used a cartridge that can hold more than 4GB.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Sm4sh for 3DS was the first to use 8 GB cartridges. Any time Masahiro Sakurai has done anything for Nintendo, they practically give him a blank cheque and give him whatever he needs to work his magic. This includes his own studio, being able to pull in basically anyone he wants from the industry that is willing, a dual-layer disc for Brawl and including a 3DS stand for Kid Icarus: Uprising. The man knows how to make them money, and Iwata would be on board to give him a foot massage if he started to ask for time off because walking around the office has grown tiring.

 

[ssbHex]

Looks like my greatest fear may come true. I never liked the idea of a 3DS version, and I don't think Sakurai does either. Iwata keeps insisting it however.

I think we may be exaggerrating how many vets will be cut, but it truly is bull****. None of the confirmed newcomers are as interesting as anybody already in Brawl. So, any cuts are kind of like a bad trade off for us

 

[Gamingboy]

When I read "reduce some characters", I almost wonder if that's basically him saying there won't be Zero Suit Samus.

Looks like my greatest fear may come true. I never liked the idea of a 3DS version, and I don't think Sakurai does either. Iwata keeps insisting it however.

I think we may be exaggerrating how many vets will be cut, but it truly is bull****. None of the confirmed newcomers are as interesting as anybody already in Brawl. So, any cuts are kind of like a bad trade off for us

Actually, Sakurai was originally focused on JUST a 3DS game. It wasn't until he heard about the Wii U that he started thinking about the Wii U.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Key Sentence.

''We we're forced in to the situation where we may need to reduce some characters to a certain degree''

Reduce=Take out
Certain Degree=To keep in Limit

 

[Chiroz]

You're ignoring the "working hard in order to include as many characters as possible"

Yes because the question was would all characters return at which he says some characters are encountering problems which means they might be reduced but they are working hard to include as many as possible. I see this as basically saying "We're trying to bring all of them back but we're having problems with some of them and are experimenting with "reducing them" (whatever that means). If that doesn't work we might have to cut them, but be assured we are trying our best.

I am a bit optimistic and hopeful but it makes sense if you re-read it.

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You have great reason to be optimistic. At worse, Sakurai and Namco Bandai cut down the animation details, scale the graphics down, maybe remove/tweak a few "dual characters," and we have to download some stuff. At best, everything gets fixed, we get a ton of content, and it is everything we want smash to be. Really, there's not much at stake to lose. Y'all need to take a chill pill and get a good feel of that this is real and yet not that big of a deal.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Sm4sh for 3DS was the first to use 8 GB cartridges. Any time Masahiro Sakurai has done anything for Nintendo, they practically give him a blank cheque and give him whatever he needs to work his magic. This includes his own studio, being able to pull in basically anyone he wants from the industry that is willing, a dual-layer disc for Brawl and including a 3DS stand for Kid Icarus: Uprising. The man knows how to make them money, and Iwata would be on board to give him a foot massage if he started to ask for time off because walking around the office has grown tiring.

On top of that, Brawl was the first game to used a dual-layered Wii disc, and I think one of only a handful of games that ever did that on the Wii. And even if the memory surpasses 8GB, it could be a digital-only game, or it could be made to where the memory on the cartridge is nearly full, and you have to download the rest of the game.

As long as the technical issues with dual characters gets fixed, there's enough solutions to this problem to where it's not even an issue (that can't be fixed).

Key Sentence.

''We we're forced in to the situation where we may need to reduce some characters to a certain degree''

Hence why some of their models look like ports from other games (specifically Melee and Brawl) that have been modified.

 

[Latias]

Yes because the question was would all characters return at which he says some characters are encountering problems which means they might be reduced but they are working hard to include as many as possible. I see this as basically saying "We're trying to bring all of them back but we're having problems with some of them and are experimenting with "reducing them" (whatever that means). If that doesn't work we might have to cut them, but be assured we are trying our best.

I am a bit optimistic and hopeful but it makes sense if you re-read it.

It could honestly go either way..

 

[-TAG-]

Didn't Capcom use like 4GB 3DS cartridges for Resident Evil: Revelations instead of the usual 2GB carts most 3DS games use?

 

[DefenseTech]

But Ridley cant fit on 8GB Cartridge DONT YOU UNDERSTAND ,!!!!

lmfao

 

[Dark Phazon]

lmfao

Its not meant to be funny im damn serious! I knew this Bull* would happen.

 

[Spire]

You can see in this screenshot that 3DS Link's Hylian Shield is of lower quality than his Brawl equivalent:

It appears they took the Brawl model and trimmed down aspects of it that wouldn't be caught in action, such as the extruded metal segments of the shield. The 3DS Shield instead goes the way of OoT's Hylian Shield: a simple model with a texture suggesting indentations and shading. As such, you can tell they're really pressed for space on the 3DS if they're going with models of less quality than Brawl.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

@ AMazing Ampharos - We had 5 cuts between Melee and Brawl including one character with a unique moveset that was popular (Mewtwo). I would say that is a serious cut. Could get the same here.

I think you overstate the cuts from Melee (Does Doctor Mario really even count as a cut?), but either way, 5 isn't that big of a deal. I see some people talking like we're losing half the cast, and that's just not likely at all. I mean, including all transformations as their own characters, Brawl had 39 characters. Let's say they cut 8 of them. That means that 31 of them return which is an awful lot and will leave most people with tons of characters who will be familiar. It could be even fewer. If we see the loss of let's say Pokemon Trainer and Ice Climbers for technical reasons, we lost four movesets but really only two characters, and most of us don't end up much worse off for it. It sucks for people who loved those characters, but I think most of us have love for several different characters so even if your #1 didn't return, you almost certainly have someone coming back you were fond of.

I also might point out that Ice Climbers didn't really work in either game. I always called them the Ice Grabbers, and after about the 20th time I lost a stock to an infinite, I was out of love for the character. If they were a character that didn't return, I think most of us would really be better off to breathe a sigh of relief than to be upset; it's not that they couldn't be made better this time, but if they were gone, we sure wouldn't have to worry about it.

Also, if technical limitations are a problem, I can always just take the selfish approach. I play Mr. Game & Watch. I think only people who got into hacking Brawl really realized just how simple he is, but from a technical standpoint he's something like half as complex as any other character. Add in that early concept art that had him as a small background character (was that ever confirmed to be official?), and I'm sure liking my flat buddy's return chances. All I need is a good screenshot of him and my favorite turtle, and I can finally have an avatar update after all these years.

 

[ssbHex]

Actually, Sakurai was originally focused on JUST a 3DS game. It wasn't until he heard about the Wii U that he started thinking about the Wii U.

You're right about that, but there was that interview later on(post e3 2011) where Sakurai was like we may not have time. In which case we'd have to ditch the 3DS version. and Iwata was like UHHH what did you say? We already announced it! Not happening.
I don't have a link right now but I do remember that occurring.

 

[JOE!]

If they're removing clones, Ganon TL Lucas Falco Wolf Lucario and most likely Ike will get replaced.

>lucas
>Wolf
>Lucario

>>>Clones

 

[Lugubrious]

Personally I'm not worried. If the Wii U could hold 50 GB and the 3DS 49, he'd still have to announce that there might be limitations. Those aren't the real numbers of course, but the real limitations won't be staggering. Anyone thinking that this SSB will have fewer characters than Brawl because of these limitations might just need a chill pill. Additionally, since Sakurai must know that the players prioritize characters over story mode, he might reroute some storage--Subspace Emissary counted for the lion's share of Brawl's memory. I still predict at least forty characters.

 

[Dark Phazon]

The 3DS version is impressive though more than i thought.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Man.... I dunno what all the fuss is about. We're still at the exact same equilibrium as we were before, only at least now we know the two games will have the same roster.

This still tells us nothing about how big the roster will be, and it most certainly doesn't give us any criteria on which to base our predictions as to what characters might be cut.

 

[Dark Phazon]

>lucas
>Wolf
>Lucario

>>>Clones

Im sorry i dont mean to be rude but Lucario is not a clone im trying to be as nice as i can about this.

 

[Donghae]

Wii u players ishh screwed up because of 3ds limitations

 

[JOE!]

I was saying that it's weird to see those ones listed as "clones".

Its like saying Pikachu and Mario are since their Nspecs bounce lol.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Man.... I dunno what all the fuss is about. We're still at the exact same equilibrium as we were before, only at least now we know the two games will have the same roster.

This still tells us nothing about how big the roster will be, and it most certainly doesn't give us any criteria on which to base our predictions as to what characters might be cut.

Actually we have learned something new 2 things to be exact.

#1 Both versions will have the same chars.

2# There is a good chance they will be cuts.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Actually we have learned something new 2 things to be exact.

#1 Both versions will have the same chars.

2# There is a good chance they will be cuts.

But everyone already knew that there would be cuts. Hence, the equilibrium has remained where it has been for a while now. I don't think anyone was under the delusion that nobody would get cut.

 

[FlamingForce]

But he is still by far the most recognizable villain in the franchise, Toon Link would be cut way before him due to him being the cloniest of all clones in Brawl. Ganondorf is a series stable, only a semi-clone, more important, and Zelda won't be reduced to only 2 characters.



There are many characters that'd go before PKMN Trainer, Jigglypuff included. One name: Charizard.

Well if it's an issue of file size I could definitely see them scrapping 1 character taking up the space of 3 instead of 3 different ones.

 

[Dark Phazon]

But everyone already knew that there would be cuts. Hence, the equilibrium has remained where it has been for a while now. I don't think anyone was under the delusion that nobody would get cut.

How did people know they woukd be cuts? Sakurai knew PeePz hated that he cut chars from Melee to Brawl? Why would he purposly do it again?

 

[Gardex]

Wii u players ishh screwed up because of 3ds limitations

Completely screwed. A vague comment about the character roster has ruined the game.

Fun's over. Melee/Brawl 4 life

 

[lordvaati]

75M has DK yet he's in Brawl.

*cough* cranky Kong*cough*

 

[TheTuninator]

While this is still very discouraging news, this part of the quote has me hopeful:

but we're really working hard in order to include as many characters as possible.

Sounds like he at least wants a big roster. Let's just hope that the 3DS doesn't hold the game back.

 

[Gamingboy]

How did people know they woukd be cuts? Sakurai knew PeePz hated that he cut chars from Melee to Brawl? Why would he purposly do it again?

Because otherwise there wouldn't be many new ones. Not to mention that with third parties (especially Snake/Konami), the relationship between the companies may have changed.

 

[Dark Phazon]

You know what...whatever man...but you know what would make me straight out ditch this game?

If the WiiU's Version Online capabilities gets limited because of the 3DS Version.