Not Everyone from Brawl/Melee will return... few 3rd party characters

[Nick Schovitz]

75M has DK yet he's in Brawl.

That DK and the 1 in the game are two different characters as explained by Otacon.

If people have to be cut then this is who i want cut:

Jigglypuff
Wolf
Falco
Lucas

That's it.

Edit: Forgot about Snake and Sonic, those 2 are a given to leave.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'd accept Wolf, Falco, Lucas, and Toon Link (though I have my doubts because of Wind Waker HD)/

Though I'm sure that Ike is gone and replaced with another FE rep.

 

[kackamee]

Balance concerns over roster size certainly didn't stop Sakurai dumping a ton of newcomers into Brawl, which ended up being pretty seriously imbalanced, so I'm not really worried about that.

I expect SSB4 to have a sizable roster jump and fairly weak balance, just like its two predecessors.

Brawl was not "seriously imbalanced" in the slightest. Excluding Metaknight and everyone better than about Samus (arguably), the character balance between the rest of the cast was not far apart at all. Brawl had great competitive variety.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Well I see the hysterics will continue until the games release.

Who knows what it ultimately means for the roster, data size is certianly not an issue unless they want 500 songs on the 3DS with triple the CG cut scenes.

He asked about Brawl AND Melee regarding characters that MAY be cut. Pichu, Dr Mario, Snake and Sonic all come to mind as far as cuts go. But maybe no one gets cut! Accept for the 3rd parties every Brawl member seems perfectly reasonable, genuinely wanted and with a great shot at returning.

 

[Mr.Showtime]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ No, they need programming help with Smash 3DS, not balancing help. That's an unrelated issue for another topic (although I agree to an extent).

While I agree the coding is much different, there still could be some complications. That's all I was saying btw. Programming issues are weird that way.

Perhaps the best way around this is to literally just have Nana right behind Popo, and make it to where like she's in the background (3D) with Popo, and she only dies when he dies.

This could be something that is "cut" and merely simplified to some super attack for each Pokémon. It might be a processing issue in this regard.

As a programmer I highly disagree. There are many variables that need to take place for each character. The only thing that would be the same is button input. Each character has a different set a physics and values. For example, take Yoshi's double jump. He accelerates downwards before accelerating up, I doubt those physics are the same per character. Same exact thing for hitboxes. Collision detection per attack and the model of each character..........way more complex then you think it is, programming isn't an easy task.

 

[DakotaBonez]

No limit to amount of memory/storage. Limits come from the 3DS not being able to process stuff like 8 ice climbers on screen at once which the wii u will have to conform to by altering the ice climbers as well.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If the Ice Climbers get cut I will soak up my roommate's tears with happiness.

Hate the beatings I've received a few times from those ******** because of him.

 

[Zuby]

That DK and the 1 in the game are two different characters as explained by Otacon.

The Link in Spirit Tracks is different to the one in the Wind Waker. They're separated by 100 years, the same as Ocarina and Wind Waker. And it wouldn't be hard to code a switch to make Alfonso drive if Toon Link is playing on that stage.

 

[Ultinarok]

If they're removing clones, Ganon TL Lucas Falco Wolf Lucario and most likely Ike will get replaced.

....
.......
*sigh* I hate explaining this on every thread but...
Wolf and Lucas are NOT clones.
Falco, Toon Link and Ganon are semi-clones. And Ganon is likely here to stay.

I've mentioned this in the other threads, but if cuts are going to occur, I feel like it'll go in order:

1. Snake
2. Toon Link
3. Sheik
4. Lucario
5. Jigglypuff
6. Sonic
7. Ike
8. Falco or Wolf
9. Lucas
10. Ice Climbers

Although I don't like it...

 

[Donghae]

I

Do we though? We never see the final smash end or her changing into ZSS. I think it is very possible that Sakurai cut her because of two reasons.

1) They want people who love playing Samus not be discouraged to get the smash ball to change the character completely.

2) Even though ZSS is samus without her suit, she is still samus. That would make having a character slot kind of redundant. So they took a character (Wii Fit Trainer) and give her a similar gameplay style to ZSS.

I dont wanna lose my main

 

[psyniac_123]

It's times like these when I remember how much of a headache these forums can be sometimes during the speculation stages; taking every word and skewing it in a way to panic.

Just because Sakurai said he was having trouble with Ice Climbers in the 3DS version doesn't mean they won't return. Sakurai would feel terrible leaving them out, least of all because he was so happy to introduce them. They may appear in some reduced fashion or maybe he'll find a way around it and they will be just how we know them after all.

But this doesn't mean that transformations and clones are being cut.

Zamus, Pokémon Trainer, Sheik etc are just swaps of model and moveset. This do not require the console to track your movement and give you an AI to follow you at all times like Olimar's Pikmin or how Nana follows Pop.

"So we're forced into the situation where we may need to reduce some characters to a certain degree. but we're really working hard in order to include as many characters as possible."

Read as: "We may need to think about how Ice Climbers and Olimar (who, again, require computer AI to control partner characters following player's actions) should work and perhaps limit them but we're working hard in order to include as many characters as possible to make up for the changes."

As in, we're limiting some but that doesn't mean the roster will be reduced because of it.

 

[fogbadge]

well we all knew there wasnt goingto be many 3rd party characters, but here's hoping ice climbers, pokemon trainer, lucas and olimar and mr game and watch do return, and im sure luigi peach and zelda defiantly will be

 

[Saturn]

I'm pretty sure we will have several new characters. We will probably just lose a few and have them replaced.

 

[volbound1700]

well we all knew there wasnt goingto be many 3rd party characters, but here's hoping ice climbers, pokemon trainer, lucas and olimar and mr game and watch do return, and im sure luigi peach and zelda defiantly will be

Why would they cut Olimar since he is the face of a new, popular series? Has there been rumors they are having difficulty with him?

 

[psyniac_123]

Why would they cut Olimar since he is the face of a new, popular series?

Actually, Olimar isn't in Pikmin 3. It's three new characters. So dumb theories about character cutting aside, he may get replaced regardless for one of those guys.

 

[Curious Villager]

That DK and the 1 in the game are two different characters as explained by Otacon.

That's a different DK, that's his grandfather.

You guys have never played Spirit Tracks did you? You guys are only proving Latias's point.

The Toon Link in Spirit Tracks and the Spirit Train stage is a different person too and unrelated to the Toon Link in Brawl/Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass.

Just like the two DK's in Brawl (only the old ape age is called Cranky Kong. His younger Arcade age is still called Donkey Kong to this day which who we are referring to)

 

[volbound1700]

Actually, Olimar isn't in Pikmin 3. It's three new characters. So dumb theories about character cutting aside, he may get replaced regardless for one of those guys.

He is still the face of Pikmin and we are not sure yet if he is in Pikmin 3 or not. He just may not be playable at the start (or ever) but could be a major part of the game.

 

[DakotaBonez]

It's times like these when I remember how much of a headache these forums can be sometimes during the speculation stages; taking every word and skewing it in a way to panic.


Just because Sakurai said he was having trouble with Ice Climbers in the 3DS version doesn't mean they won't return. Sakurai would feel terrible leaving them out, least of all because he was so happy to introduce them. They may appear in some reduced fashion or maybe he'll find a way around it and they will be just how we know them after all.


But this doesn't mean that transformations and clones are being cut.


Zamus, Pokémon Trainer, Sheik etc are just swaps of model and moveset. This do not require the console to track your movement and give you an AI to follow you at all times like Olimar's Pikmin or how Nana follows Pop.






Read as: "We may need to think about how Ice Climbers and Olimar (who, again, require computer AI to control partner characters following player's actions) should work and perhaps limit them but we're working hard in order to include as many characters as possible to make up for the changes."


As in, we're limiting some but that doesn't mean the roster will be reduced because of it.

THISTHISTHISTHISTHIS
Finally someone who understands!

 

[Ussi]

I hope ice climbers don't come back. I really don't want to deal with chain grabbing again :|


Also i think yall are just overreacting.

 

[fogbadge]

Actually, Olimar isn't in Pikmin 3. It's three new characters. So dumb theories about character cutting aside, he may get replaced regardless for one of those guys.

actually he is in pikmin 3 http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/50936/olimar-will-return-in-pikmin-3-confrms-miyamoto/

 

[volbound1700]

I hope ice climbers don't come back. I really don't want to deal with chain grabbing again :|


Also i think yall are just overreacting.

Probably correct and I am one of the most guilty parties.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

I can see at least Toon Link, Falco, Lucas, and Lucario getting the boot. I kinda hope ROB goes in favor of Mr. Game & Watch and Wii Fit Trainer.

I really hope Jigglypuff stays and gets a moveset redo to incorporate her Fairy type abilities. Get rid of Rest. Please. I mean, it's good competitively, but it's a really dumb idea.

 

[volbound1700]

I really don't want to see Falco go because he is a regular in Smash now. I don't mind Toon Link going if they replace him with another unique Link (hopefully with movesets that differentiate the two Links).

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

I'm just not a fan of having two characters that are essentially the same person. Link/Toon Link/Young Link and Dr. Mario/Mario are the prime examples (and Pikachu/Pichu to an extent). That's just begging for clone status. I was glad Dr. Mario and Young Link were removed from Brawl (though we still had Toon Link), and I hope Toon Link gets replaced with someone more creative.

EDIT: Wasn't Mr. Game & Watch in that artwork Sakurai tweeted a few months ago?

 

[volbound1700]

I really like the idea of a Masked Link from MM where he has the different powers but I don't see it happening .

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

I forgot about this image. I kinda makes me feel better for the likes of Zero Suit Samus and Mr. Game & Watch possibly making a return.

 

[volbound1700]

I forgot about this image. I kinda makes me feel better for the likes of Zero Suit Samus and Mr. Game & Watch possibly making a return.

I will say all of the characters in that picture except Zamus are safe. I also feel Zamus will be back too though.

 

[GreenKirby]

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=205341

At this point we have no plans for downloadable conten. Our goal is to have a Smash Bros. that has enough content, in terms of characters and stages, and that's where all our energies are focused. There's no fundamental opposition to downloadable content if it's something that felt like it worked. We haven't really decided whether we're going to do it or not. We're not opposed to it, we just need to work on completing the full package."

 

[Mr.C]

I find it disgusting that Wii fit Trainer and The Villager are taking up two character spots.

 

[GreenKirby]

Yeah whatever, cry about it somewhere else.

 

[Mr.C]

How about I cry about it on the forums created to talk about Smash Bros.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

To be clear, the characters in that image who have not been shown to be in the game so far:

Marth
Meta Knight
Luigi
Wario
Mr. Game & Watch
Zero Suit Samus

The image also contains a pikmin, a Mr. Saturn, Sandbag, a Heart Container, a star of some sort (Warp Star?), and what appears to be but is kinda ambiguously Master Hand in the background. Either way, this image hasn't been said to confirm anything directly, but I'd feel pretty good about the inclusion of elements from the picture since it would be very odd for Sakurai to show characters in concept art that he didn't plan to include (just like how Lucas's dojo reveal effectively confirmed Ness; Sakurai never would have mentioned Ness on the dojo if Ness was not going to return just like he never mentioned Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu, or Dr. Mario).

I'd also like to repeat that, if your current Brawl main gets cut, it's not the end of the world. I feel pretty good about G&W's chances of returning, but I'd live if he were gone. I already really like how Mega Man looks (and the Villager to a lesser extent), there are several other characters in Brawl I liked anyway who may be tweaked in ways that I'll love in smash 4, and who knows what else we're going to see? Even if G&W does return, I might not play him in smash 4 anyway so there's no reason for me to get hung up on his inclusion. It will make this next year of a slow drip of information far less stressful on you if you take the same attitude I am taking.

 

[Latias]

To be clear, the characters in that image who have not been shown to be in the game so far:

Marth
Mega Knight
Luigi
Wario
Mr. Game & Watch
Zero Suit Samus

The image also contains a pikmin, a Mr. Saturn, Sandbag, a Heart Container, a star of some sort (Warp Star?), and what appears to be but is kinda ambiguously Master Hand in the background. Either way, this image hasn't been said to confirm anything directly, but I'd feel pretty good about the inclusion of elements from the picture since it would be very odd for Sakurai to show characters in concept art that he didn't plan to include (just like how Lucas's dojo reveal effectively confirmed Ness; Sakurai never would have mentioned Ness on the dojo if Ness was not going to return just like he never mentioned Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu, or Dr. Mario).

I'd also like to repeat that, if your current Brawl main gets cut, it's not the end of the world. I feel pretty good about G&W's chances of returning, but I'd live if he were gone. I already really like how Mega Man looks (and the Villager to a lesser extent), there are several other characters in Brawl I liked anyway who may be tweaked in ways that I'll love in smash 4, and who knows what else we're going to see? Even if G&W does return, I might not play him in smash 4 anyway so there's no reason for me to get hung up on his inclusion. It will make this next year of a slow drip of information far less stressful on you if you take the same attitude I am taking.

What image?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ok. Good chance we'll probably not see the likes of King K.Rool and Ridley in this.

If they'll remove Diddy though, I swear I'll boycot Smash forever.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

What image?

The one iDOWN posted a few posts above mine. I don't remember what source we got it from, but I've heard from a ton of different people on a lot of different sites that it's official concept art from very early in smash 4's development. If it's a fake, it's an old one that hasn't been debunked publicly at least.

 

[Luigi player]

I hope ice climbers don't come back. I really don't want to deal with chain grabbing again :|


Also i think yall are just overreacting.

I think it's pretty well possible that the ICs would be programmed to not be able to grab right after the other Climber threw someone so that CG doesn't work anymore.
If they're aware of it that is...

Imo they should definitely return. They're a great unique character.

Ok. Good chance we'll probably not see the likes of King K.Rool and Ridley in this.

If they'll remove Diddy though, I swear I'll boycot Smash forever.

lol I'm a little scared for Diddy too, but I think with DKC TP in the making it's unlikely he'll be removed after DKC is making a great return.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

He would be if he wasn't in the original.

Says who? The whole "original 12 has to stay" thing is just fan speculation, a theory, nothing more. It doesn't mean anything, if Sakurai wants to cut an original to make room for someone else then he will. When has Sakurai or anyone at Nintendo said otherwise? Also, no, Ganondorf is not going to be cut. This game is about Nintendos history(something a lot of people forget time to time) it absolutely does not matter if he hasn't been in a Zelda game recently.

 

[Shun_one]

Was this posted here yet?
Polygon info

Seems to be a much better summary of what Sakurai was talking about. Specifically, this part:

Sakurai left himself an out on that explanation, however, saying that if there are items on the Wii U version that can't technically be accomplished on Nintendo 3DS, he'll leave them out of that version.

I should note, that there seemed to have been an interview with Sakurai that most sites reported on piece by piece. It's relevant to a few other topics, I'd say.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Odd...no Yoshi in that image. No Yoshi in the trailer either...
Man now I'm super hyped to see Yoshi's design!

 

[Ussi]

I think it's pretty well possible that the ICs would be programmed to not be able to grab right after the other Climber threw someone so that CG doesn't work anymore.
If they're aware of it that is...

Imo they should definitely return. They're a great unique character.

Unique but ******** risk/reward (0-death is dumb unless everyone can 0-death). If they can program the CG out, then I'll be fine with it. But I don't trust Sakurai after brawl.