choknater
Smash Obsessed
he's like
really shiny
and his body is moving weirdly
and he's happy about what he's doing
demented son
really shiny
and his body is moving weirdly
and he's happy about what he's doing
demented son
-
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NorCal Melee Power Rankings - Summer '15 Update - In Sickness and In Filth
- Thread starter HyugaRicdeau
- Start date
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
I've slept on Zac before.
Shoulda made a porno out of it.
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
so you're not saying that you're not a pedophile
TheZhuKeeper
Smash Champion
By far the strangest rankings I've seen ever. Partly because it makes no sense and partly because the top players are all actually super legit even though it doesn't really look like it LOL.
Bootleofwater
Smash Journeyman
LOL still when I think of SFAT I see this mediocre fox getting spiked by Darrell. I jus can't break that schema, even though this boi is prolly hella good now. And wtf Shroomed? Anyone can be the best if they work at it. Seeing these rankings inspired me. For real.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
honestly the only thing i see in the rankings is the ganon right in the middle
there's something bizzarre about that, something burning inside, something that's peculiarly 'jason yoon' about it
there's something bizzarre about that, something burning inside, something that's peculiarly 'jason yoon' about it
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
hey choknater, what does bizzarro flame's penis taste like?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
it tastes like Normal Ice.
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
inspiration is cool and all, but not really. obv they had to work to be as good as they are, but they are also extremely talented
choknater
Smash Obsessed
pretty sure dajuan worked for it though
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
i didn't say he didn't work hard? you're crazy if you think dajuan is only good b/c he tries hard though. there are many people who try hard who will never be anywhere near his level
Violence
Smash Lord
Watching Alvin play Peepee gave me chills.
All I could think while Alvin was sitting pretty at 3 stock to Peepee's 1 was "You have to beat THAT... to get ranked?!"
I think I peed myself a little.
And now Alvin is #16, not even ranked. Norcal's ridiculous, stupid good. Just wanted to mention.
All I could think while Alvin was sitting pretty at 3 stock to Peepee's 1 was "You have to beat THAT... to get ranked?!"
I think I peed myself a little.
And now Alvin is #16, not even ranked. Norcal's ridiculous, stupid good. Just wanted to mention.
L__
Smash Master
I'll accept praise when I feel like I've deserved it
PP was sick and it showed
PP was sick and it showed
choknater
Smash Obsessed
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
sup wit it norcal
MasterShake
Smash Lord
Norcal is good, but we've been slacking a bit...wish we had like 2 or 3 tourneys a month.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
same sigh haha
when i moved to daly city i was excited for CGC's
i was only about to attend 2 of 4
now im moving to alameda
when i moved to daly city i was excited for CGC's
i was only about to attend 2 of 4
now im moving to alameda
L__
Smash Master
does anyone have a triwing they can bring to the next tournament?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
nice haha where are you at alan?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
wow yeah i'll be really close to that.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
*Clicks Like Button*
verge
Smash Apprentice
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
ideally there will be two itt's per month, but even if there are not tafokints church looks like a viable option so at least 2 tournies per month seems likely. it's too bad the south bay tournies coincided with the death of cgc/combo food. hopefully someone steps up and fills the void there
TheZhuKeeper
Smash Champion
L__
Smash Master
genesis 2 pools
joeplicate
Smash Master
dude, those people who have "tried hard" but still don't get anywhere....
there's always the classic story
"OMG i tryed my *** off btu i couldn't get n e better and that sux so top players are just magically good"
i think those people give themselves way too much credit; they probably haven't put in quite as much work as they think, relative to other (better) players, and more often than not they're having pity-parties about how much **** they suck and identifying with their perceived inability to improve.
the classic "i suck" player has a huge amount of emotional baggage they lug around in a suitcase of hot desire, and they open it up every time they play the game.
i could go on, but basically i don't think that "talent" exists at all, except maybe in predetermined physical ways, like michael phelps being shaped like a fish or tall/superbuff sports players.
generally, whiners just don't put in the requisite amount of practice, or they go about the process of improvement like a total doofus
http://141.14.165.6/users/cokely/Ericsson_Preitula_&_Cokely_2007_HBR.pdf
this is one of the most widely cited journal articles on talent of all time
there's always the classic story
"OMG i tryed my *** off btu i couldn't get n e better and that sux so top players are just magically good"
i think those people give themselves way too much credit; they probably haven't put in quite as much work as they think, relative to other (better) players, and more often than not they're having pity-parties about how much **** they suck and identifying with their perceived inability to improve.
the classic "i suck" player has a huge amount of emotional baggage they lug around in a suitcase of hot desire, and they open it up every time they play the game.
i could go on, but basically i don't think that "talent" exists at all, except maybe in predetermined physical ways, like michael phelps being shaped like a fish or tall/superbuff sports players.
generally, whiners just don't put in the requisite amount of practice, or they go about the process of improvement like a total doofus
http://141.14.165.6/users/cokely/Ericsson_Preitula_&_Cokely_2007_HBR.pdf
this is one of the most widely cited journal articles on talent of all time
LumpyCPU...
Smash Hero
i think the key to improvement is to drink raw eggs, punch hanging meat, and listen to "eye of the tiger" once a day.
on the other hand, i really agree with what replicate says.
on the other hand, i really agree with what replicate says.
KILLA.FOR.CASH.
Smash Champion
what about people who are just slow? like, their neurons just fire slower than others and they connect to other neurons slower than other people? wouldn't you consider those people to have "less talent" in something like a fighting game?
im pretty sure somebody with super fast neuroplasticity would be able to wrap their head around the game easier and figure out their opponents style and how to beat it quicker than people who aren't as fast.
im pretty sure somebody with super fast neuroplasticity would be able to wrap their head around the game easier and figure out their opponents style and how to beat it quicker than people who aren't as fast.
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
I completely agree Joe. I do, however, take some issue with the article putting it in absolute terms that experts are -always- made instead of born. There are outliers, but it doesn't really affect the take-away message of the paper.
I think generally speaking, the barriers to such people's success are due to two factors (how much of each varies from person to person). The first is that their actions don't follow their words/thoughts, meaning they have an understanding of what they need to do to improve, but they don't follow through because they give themselves outs for not doing it. Then when their performance doesn't meet their expectations, they externalize the reasons for this because they don't (or won't) consider that maybe their actions weren't genuine to their words/thoughts. Or they rationalize it away somehow, e.g. "yeah well I'm not a nerd who spends 6 hours a day playing; I have a life, so there."
The other reason comes from a lack of understanding about what it means to really be an expert. Actually I wouldn't say a lack of understanding so much as a lack of reasoning about it. I liken it to this (a la Richard Feynman): During WWII in the Pacific Islands, there was a lot of military action on islands where there were tribes which had previously little or no contact with industrialized countries. These tribes saw Westerners build airstrips and such, and receive goods afterwards. When the war ended, the Westerners left and the goods stopped coming. Some of the tribes then ritually built imitation airstrips of their own, and held mock military drills like they saw the Westerners do, because apparently this had caused cargo to come to them. We see these cargo cults as silly because they obviously have no understanding of why cargo was coming in the first place. But we all still sometimes act on a similar mentality, when we try to achieve success by mindlessly parroting the actions associated with success that we see experts do. Point being, you have to also think like a pro, and not just act like one. Unlike actual cargo cults though, in Smash (and some other things), it is possible to have a small amount of success by mindlessly imitating pros, which you could argue makes it all the more dangerous, because that limited success will reinforce the behavior. This could be an explanation of why some people rise and then abruptly peak. Not me though, because as we all know I have been constantly improving on the slowest trajectory of all time, which is why it LOOKS like I'm the same level relative to everyone else for the last 4 years in a row, but actually by 2020 I will win Genesis 9 with Falco.
I think generally speaking, the barriers to such people's success are due to two factors (how much of each varies from person to person). The first is that their actions don't follow their words/thoughts, meaning they have an understanding of what they need to do to improve, but they don't follow through because they give themselves outs for not doing it. Then when their performance doesn't meet their expectations, they externalize the reasons for this because they don't (or won't) consider that maybe their actions weren't genuine to their words/thoughts. Or they rationalize it away somehow, e.g. "yeah well I'm not a nerd who spends 6 hours a day playing; I have a life, so there."
The other reason comes from a lack of understanding about what it means to really be an expert. Actually I wouldn't say a lack of understanding so much as a lack of reasoning about it. I liken it to this (a la Richard Feynman): During WWII in the Pacific Islands, there was a lot of military action on islands where there were tribes which had previously little or no contact with industrialized countries. These tribes saw Westerners build airstrips and such, and receive goods afterwards. When the war ended, the Westerners left and the goods stopped coming. Some of the tribes then ritually built imitation airstrips of their own, and held mock military drills like they saw the Westerners do, because apparently this had caused cargo to come to them. We see these cargo cults as silly because they obviously have no understanding of why cargo was coming in the first place. But we all still sometimes act on a similar mentality, when we try to achieve success by mindlessly parroting the actions associated with success that we see experts do. Point being, you have to also think like a pro, and not just act like one. Unlike actual cargo cults though, in Smash (and some other things), it is possible to have a small amount of success by mindlessly imitating pros, which you could argue makes it all the more dangerous, because that limited success will reinforce the behavior. This could be an explanation of why some people rise and then abruptly peak. Not me though, because as we all know I have been constantly improving on the slowest trajectory of all time, which is why it LOOKS like I'm the same level relative to everyone else for the last 4 years in a row, but actually by 2020 I will win Genesis 9 with Falco.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
I can see this happening, but unfortunately I'm not sure if there is a character "Sheridan" in the book of Genesis in the Bible, whereas Adam and Joseph are.
Unless you do win... I think, then, we'd all have a new god to believe in.
edit: o **** i actually punctuated and capitalized a post. i think its cuz i posted after sheridan "hyuga" ricdeau.
joeplicate
Smash Master
well as far as "slow" people go, i don't really think anything save actual *********** would affect people that seriously
as far as i know, people's neurons fire at the same speed. i have a limited understanding of neuroscience, but i don't think that people's brains are configured permanently at any point in time. our brains are extremely malleable, and they change based on the different ways we use them.
can there be a better "fit" of a brain for playing games? i'd say it's pretty unlikely. basically, there are 7 billion brains in the world right now, and one of them is probably has some advantage over the others when it comes to playing videogames, simply based on chance. but in my opinion, whatever this advantage is has got to be extremely small on the evolutionary scale, since videogames have been around a scant 30 years. in terms of human beings as a species, i feel like we're all too similar for it to make much of a difference.
even if someone was naturally inclined to play games, there's no guarantee they would put the work in or engage in the practice necessary to get that good. in some cases, i even think that being initially bad at something is better in the long run for motivation--you think "man, i suck at this, and this makes me mad, so i'm going to get super good at it to prove people wrong." inversely, i think i'm "naturally" good at reading and writing (i read a lot as a kid), but i've been a lazy ****er my whole academic career, and my writing and my grades have historically been mediocre as **** because i only turn in first drafts of everything, and i've never spent the time to "hone my craft," as it were.
armada and dr peepee are posterboys for hard work paying off over natural talent. peepee said that he didn't think of himself having any natural talent at all, but he's constantly on the boards theorycrafting, considering options, watching videos, and most importantly putting his observations into direct practice. he breaks down every single part of his game and subjects it to intense scrutiny, and then spends the effort to whip it into shape.
armada got 2nd place in US tournaments for 2 years, right? remember in mango's podcast when he said that having heart was important? you bet your *** armada stays on his grind, and he beat "mr. tryhard" (pretty convincingly, in my opinion) because he was more in practice.
honestly, i don't even know if having a disability is enough of a handicap to put a direct ceilings development. isn't chudat like crazy? LOL
sorry 4 poppin off at the mouth, but this is like the thing i care most about in all of smash, and i get easily hot and bothered over it
also alan that azn chick is hella hot, i was looking up at that gif like every 5 seconds while typing this post hahahha
as far as i know, people's neurons fire at the same speed. i have a limited understanding of neuroscience, but i don't think that people's brains are configured permanently at any point in time. our brains are extremely malleable, and they change based on the different ways we use them.
can there be a better "fit" of a brain for playing games? i'd say it's pretty unlikely. basically, there are 7 billion brains in the world right now, and one of them is probably has some advantage over the others when it comes to playing videogames, simply based on chance. but in my opinion, whatever this advantage is has got to be extremely small on the evolutionary scale, since videogames have been around a scant 30 years. in terms of human beings as a species, i feel like we're all too similar for it to make much of a difference.
even if someone was naturally inclined to play games, there's no guarantee they would put the work in or engage in the practice necessary to get that good. in some cases, i even think that being initially bad at something is better in the long run for motivation--you think "man, i suck at this, and this makes me mad, so i'm going to get super good at it to prove people wrong." inversely, i think i'm "naturally" good at reading and writing (i read a lot as a kid), but i've been a lazy ****er my whole academic career, and my writing and my grades have historically been mediocre as **** because i only turn in first drafts of everything, and i've never spent the time to "hone my craft," as it were.
armada and dr peepee are posterboys for hard work paying off over natural talent. peepee said that he didn't think of himself having any natural talent at all, but he's constantly on the boards theorycrafting, considering options, watching videos, and most importantly putting his observations into direct practice. he breaks down every single part of his game and subjects it to intense scrutiny, and then spends the effort to whip it into shape.
armada got 2nd place in US tournaments for 2 years, right? remember in mango's podcast when he said that having heart was important? you bet your *** armada stays on his grind, and he beat "mr. tryhard" (pretty convincingly, in my opinion) because he was more in practice.
honestly, i don't even know if having a disability is enough of a handicap to put a direct ceilings development. isn't chudat like crazy? LOL
sorry 4 poppin off at the mouth, but this is like the thing i care most about in all of smash, and i get easily hot and bothered over it
also alan that azn chick is hella hot, i was looking up at that gif like every 5 seconds while typing this post hahahha
choknater
Smash Obsessed
shoutouts to naya rivera
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
I wouldn't think of different brains as being better/worse suited to videogames specifically, but to some more general ability, which games happen to take advantage of. My guess is that brains themselves probably don't differ very much in their physical plasticity, but it's a matter of a person learning how to 'reprogram' themselves. So, while there isn't really much difference in brains in terms of talent for specific skills, maybe there is some kind of 'meta-skill' that some brains are better suited to than others that allow them to develop those skills. This is just an idea though. Sometimes I think that this meta-skill is just a kind of self-awareness, which makes you ask the right questions and take stock of yourself honestly and thoroughly, without letting yourself take the easy way out, intellectually.
This also is kind of relevant to something I had been thinking about lately, which is the definition of intelligence. One that I've come up with that I think covers a very broad concept of intelligence is the ability to recognize patterns, come up with a 'narrative' for these patterns, and to make successful predictions based on the patterns/narrative. I think this is useful because not only does it cover things like mathematical ability (you could think of mathematical rules as a combination pattern/narrative, in a way), but it also encompasses things like 'street smarts;' the intelligence of someone who best learns how to survive in difficult surroundings based on their understanding of how those around them interact, allowing them to make the best choices. The ability to 'reprogram' yourself is a big part of this kind of intelligence because we have to constantly refine or even reject our narratives when new information comes along.
This also is kind of relevant to something I had been thinking about lately, which is the definition of intelligence. One that I've come up with that I think covers a very broad concept of intelligence is the ability to recognize patterns, come up with a 'narrative' for these patterns, and to make successful predictions based on the patterns/narrative. I think this is useful because not only does it cover things like mathematical ability (you could think of mathematical rules as a combination pattern/narrative, in a way), but it also encompasses things like 'street smarts;' the intelligence of someone who best learns how to survive in difficult surroundings based on their understanding of how those around them interact, allowing them to make the best choices. The ability to 'reprogram' yourself is a big part of this kind of intelligence because we have to constantly refine or even reject our narratives when new information comes along.
Shroomed
Smash Master
Everyone should watch old videos of themselves. I used to be so **** at this game.
I only do good at this game because I hate losing. Losing ****ing blows and I work as hard as possible to not let that **** happen again.
If you don't TRULY want to get better, you won't. Everything Joe says is true. Some people ***** and moan and think, man pros are just so good and they don't do **** to get better. I study my videos and figure out why I lost what I did wrong and what I can do to fix it. If you don't analyze YOURSELF and just look at videos of pros and try to copy that, you're not going to really get any better. Trying to imitate a pros playstyle isn't going to work out, you need to find your own style. Sure you can learn a few tricks and things, but you have to find your own groove in order to truly get better.
I only do good at this game because I hate losing. Losing ****ing blows and I work as hard as possible to not let that **** happen again.
If you don't TRULY want to get better, you won't. Everything Joe says is true. Some people ***** and moan and think, man pros are just so good and they don't do **** to get better. I study my videos and figure out why I lost what I did wrong and what I can do to fix it. If you don't analyze YOURSELF and just look at videos of pros and try to copy that, you're not going to really get any better. Trying to imitate a pros playstyle isn't going to work out, you need to find your own style. Sure you can learn a few tricks and things, but you have to find your own groove in order to truly get better.
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
this is what i mean when refer to talent, abilities that exist outside of the scope of a particular activity, and in smash talent consists of stuff like reaction time, spatial/temporal reasoning, pattern recognition, etc. i tend to agree that many people overestimate their work ethic, but that's a different discussionjoeplicate said:
edit:
i agree with this as well, but again it's a distinct point. that statement does not imply that wanting to get better will always result in improvement. it likely will when you aren't very good at something, and as you get better it becomes more difficult to improveShroomed said:
choknater
Smash Obsessed
reaction time, spatial/temporal reasoning, and pattern recognition can all be improved with deliberate practice
shoutouts to joe's article
shoutouts to joe's article