Noir's Advance Technique/Reseach and Discussion.

[OoNoiRoO]

Could you try out Yoshi's edge canceled egg throws when you do these tests?

Haven't tried. I'll write that down.

Could you please check for these techniques:

Platform Cancel and Isai Drop.


Thank you.


-SynikaL

Haven't tried platform cancel yet.

What's an Isai Drop?

And what's a PC Drop?

And since when where there "drops" with everyone's **** name in them?

 

[BrianM]

ZSS: 2 jumps or 3 jumps? I keep hearing varying answers and it's bugging me. Also, does her forward smash have the largest hit-box in the game?

 

[K1T3]

Thanks for your analysis so far, and I fully understand that you just got the game and we can't know characters full potential until much later. I just wanted to know what your current thoughts were.

Can you explain the fatigue system for PT? Can you just change right back to squirtle after you die or will this lead to fatigue?

What's your take on ZSS and Olimar? Are they combo friendly at all?

Is Sonic so bad? I would think with tech chasing he would be quite good.

Lee could I have your take on who is good / who is bad so far in your opinion?

 

[M.K]

One suggestion/idea for you to try and get back to me on:

Try holding a Smoke Ball/Item while performing a Final Smash.

 

[Kimosabae]

Haven't tried. I'll write that down.



Haven't tried platform cancel yet.

What's an Isai Drop?

And what's a PC Drop?

And since when where there "drops" with everyone's **** name in them?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MMxgGtMLEfw


I would recommend searching Melee forums and Youtube for ideas on what to look for. I know there are a lot of obscure techniques that people may forget or simply may not be cognizant of.


-SynikaL

 

[Hmaal]

Hey if you have time can you do some test with elements and type affects?

 

[K1T3]

What's an Isai Drop?

And what's a PC Drop?

And since when where there "drops" with everyone's **** name in them?

Haha, Isai drop is where you tap foward then down and it falls through a platform quicker I believe.
PC drop I think is a shield drop where you're shielding on a platform and tap down (like a sh tap of the control stick down) and drop through the platform.

He posted the vid while I was writing, seems I was wrong about PC drop...

 

[ph00tbag]

What's an Isai Drop?

And what's a PC Drop?

And since when where there "drops" with everyone's **** name in them?

Isai Drop is when you land on a platform normally and hold left or right before tapping down to drop through the platform without having to wait for the landing animation.

PC Drop is actually not named for PC Chris. It's a Platform Cancel Drop, where you drop through a platform, and jump at just the right moment such that your jump is canceled by the platform, at which point you can drop again immediately.

Lookie this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMxgGtMLEfw

 

[OoNoiRoO]

ZSS: 2 jumps or 3 jumps? I keep hearing varying answers and it's bugging me. Also, does her forward smash have the largest hit-box in the game?

2 Jumps.

I dunno, it's goes pretty far, but I didn't notice anything ridiculous. Wolf's Fsmash gets more range.

Thanks for your analysis so far, and I fully understand that you just got the game and we can't know characters full potential until much later. I just wanted to know what your current thoughts were.

Can you explain the fatigue system for PT? Can you just change right back to squirtle after you die or will this lead to fatigue?

What's your take on ZSS and Olimar? Are they combo friendly at all?

Is Sonic so bad? I would think with tech chasing he would be quite good.

Lee could I have your take on who is good / who is bad so far in your opinion?

1. I don't know about that, sorry =\

2. ZSS is pretty combo-ish, but I haven't played her enough to say anything else other than good tilts, smashes come out slow, floaty, and her grapple gun gets mad range on getting ledges.

3. Olimar, i'm not sure where to place, but he's definitely playable. I feels as if you're supposed to play distance with him by throwing pikmin at the enemy to rack up some damge along with catching the opponent off guard by playing defensive.

4. Haven't tried him enough to say anything, but I will say that tech chasing is not as big as it was before. This game is very aerial so far, and I've only been in a knocked down state on the ground 0 to few times in a match. Air stun has been greatly decreased as well, making you usually air dodge before you even tech.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

I could hardly Isai Drop in Melee, but I'll definitely give all the stuff a shot.

 

[Crispy4001]

Looses a frame near the end, but I think it shows it off pretty well.


For those who don't see it, all three swipes are T Link's back air, not his forward air.

 

[TheOfficialSonicFanboy]

I'm sorry, but what about the "tripping"? I've seen some videos where characters trip and are stunned for a while. Is it random or is there a set way to trip?

 

[OoNoiRoO]

Looses a frame near the end, but I think it shows it off pretty well.


For those who don't see it, all three swipes are T Link's back air, not his forward air.

watch the vid from 0:34-0:39, it's 4 Bairs. I missed the 5th one though, possibly leading to 2 more.

 

[The Great Leon]

RE: wavelands in brawl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD6lRxQJbko
watch link at around 1:54
keep in mind that its a downward slope. maybe that has something to do with it? taken from the wavelanding thread.

 

[K1T3]

There is still the randomness of tripping though and I think Sonic would be someone fast enough to be able to chase that at least even without tech chasing being prominent.

I've heard that sonic's initial dash animation is quite large, so is dash dancing still viable with him?

Can wolf/ falco shine spike? Is it applicable if they can?

Jiggly looks quite agile from the few vids I've seen. Is this true? Can she still rest combo and does rest still kill easily?

 

[jdub03]

Wow So there is absolutely no float cancel with peach?

 

[OoNoiRoO]

There is still the randomness of tripping though and I think Sonic would be someone fast enough to be able to chase that at least even without tech chasing being prominent.

I've heard that sonic's initial dash animation is quite large, so is dash dancing still viable with him?

Can wolf/ falco shine spike? Is it applicable if they can?

Jiggly looks quite agile from the few vids I've seen. Is this true? Can she still rest combo and does rest still kill easily?

1. Not sure about sonic again, haven't played him enough, sorry x__x

2. Yes they can. Shines do not have set knockback anymore though. Thus at lower percents its probably useless unless you stop their second jump.

3. I guess she's pretty agile n' stuff, but my friend who mains jiggs says that she feels weaker and her moves have less knockback. Also, he couldn't find a way to combo in Rest, PLUS, Rest does not kill at low to mid percents. I was ICs and he Rested me at around 70% and I still lived. The rest also now sends up straight upwards and puts a flower on your head(percentage goes up for a bit of time).

Wow So there is absolutely no float cancel with peach?

No, her aerials get very little to no lag anyways aside from Fair.

 

[Kokichi]

Crispy, how do you make GIFs out of videos like that? What program/s do you use?

And Noir, how does online work here in America? Fine? Lag? I get my copy hopefully on Monday, we'll have to play >:D

Edit: Lol @ flower on head from rest.

I'm really curious about Olimar and Sonic. I think someone is going to come along and do to Olimar what Chu did to IC. Same with Sonic. I really hope Sonic is a good character...he's fast, yes, but from what I've heard his moves kinda suck.

Also, out of the three PT pokes, who's your favorite? I've heard mixed results from everyone.

 

[Crispy4001]

watch the vid from 0:34-0:39, it's 4 Bairs. I missed the 5th one though, possibly leading to 2 more.

How's this?

I've got a question about it. Once you landed the the first jump, did you need to dash and change your directions again, or does the momentum and facing direction still carry into the second jump?

 

[OoNoiRoO]

I've been unable to connect to a game after many attempts, unfortunately =\

How's this?

I've got a question about it. Once you landed the the first jump, did you need to dash and change directions again, or does the momentum still carry you into the second jump?

Looks great ^__^

I just jump regularly after landing, but hold the direction toward the enemy immediately after the second jump.

 

[SuperMajinLink 287]

I don't want to read post after post just to look for this but I want to know if Bomb Jumping (with Samus, of course) is still in?

 

[peachori]

i keep hearing conflicting reports on float cancelling, but i'm going to put my faith in you and decide that its out.

also i remember someone confirming shield drop, but not sure about any of the other platform techs.

i've seen a video with a semi-effective fox shine spike. it wasnt as absolute as in melee, but it did result in a ko.

surprised no one has asked this yet, but have you caught any examples of IASA yet? i'm not sure if there's any specific ways to test for it (unless marths dtilt is unchanged, the IASA on that was obscene) but yeah, any sightings of IASA would be nice.

also noir is my new hero for this wonderful thread, which should either be stickied or kept aflot on the front page forever and ever.

 

[Evil E.]

Someone just explain to me how ppl North AMERICA ARE PLAYIN THA GAMEA AREDI ON THEIR COMPUTERS AND ALL THAT..

 

[Kokichi]

Also, who do you like to use so far? A generic question, sure, but you seem like a pretty good player, so I hold your opinion in a higher light than others.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

Crispy, how do you make GIFs out of videos like that? What program/s do you use?

I'm really curious about Olimar and Sonic. I think someone is going to come along and do to Olimar what Chu did to IC. Same with Sonic. I really hope Sonic is a good character...he's fast, yes, but from what I've heard his moves kinda suck.

Also, out of the three PT pokes, who's your favorite? I've heard mixed results from everyone.

1. I would like to know that too, Crispy

2. IMO I think Olimar is good. Sonics moves are just kind of... awkward.

3. Squirtle, hands down. Being floaty and fast, Bair/Fair shuffles are too good.

I don't want to read post after post just to look for this but I want to know if Bomb Jumping (with Samus, of course) is still in?

Yes, but harder to control.

i keep hearing conflicting reports on float cancelling, but i'm going to put my faith in you and decide that its out.

also i remember someone confirming shield drop, but not sure about any of the other platform techs.

i've seen a video with a semi-effective fox shine spike. it wasnt as absolute as in melee, but it did result in a ko.

surprised no one has asked this yet, but have you caught any examples of IASA yet? i'm not sure if there's any specific ways to test for it (unless marths dtilt is unchanged, the IASA on that was obscene) but yeah, any sightings of IASA would be nice.

also noir is my new hero for this wonderful thread, which should either be stickied or kept aflot on the front page forever and ever.

IASA? What's that?

I feel bad, there are so many terms that I don't know, and yet I'm like the one trying to find out brawl advance stuff >_>

Someone just explain to me how ppl North AMERICA ARE PLAYIN THA GAMEA AREDI ON THEIR COMPUTERS AND ALL THAT..

I have a Japanese Wii.

Also, who do you like to use so far? A generic question, sure, but you seem like a pretty good player, so I hold your opinion in a higher light than others.

Toon Link, Squirtle, MetaKnight, ROB, Wolf, and Ike.

The first four because I already know some abusable strategies/combos.

Wolf's Bair is easily spammable and his Fsmash gets silly range. (see : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-tBzYAaGu0)

Ike because his moves come out very slow, but hit very hard. Seriously, who didn't love connecting Ganondorf's Fair? You can say exactly the same with Ike's.

 

[Evil E.]

My question was answered.. the thread can be closed now..
jp..

HOWS MARIO!!?

I hear he is like **** **** compared to melee..??

 

[Japanese Monk]

Can Samus still Super Wavedash and Super Grapple?


Im so pissed they nerfed Samus. WTF Sakurai?! Main! She was my main. That so depressing that shes "junk" now.....I really don't want to find another main. Looking like it might be Tlink...

 

[K1T3]

Ignore this...
Noir is too fast at replying and just too good in general...

 

[Emblem Lord]

IASA = Interuptible As soon As

Meaning that once the attack is executed and hits a certain point in it's recovery lag you can then cancel that recovery time with any other action.

With Marth's d-tilt in melee the IASA point was as soon as he drew his arm back from the stab.

So, yes please look for IASA moves.

 

[Sanji]

Noir, do you have AIM or MSN? if so, whats your name on? you can PM it to me

 

[The Great Leon]

"IASA? What's that?

I feel bad, there are so many terms that I don't know, and yet I'm like the one trying to find out brawl advance stuff >_>"

Interruptable As Soon As
basically you cancel some of an attack's lag with another action, like jumping, shielding, or attacking. in melee, marth's DTilt was 40 frames long and was IASA after 20 frames (iirc). So after 20 frames you could do something else, like a FSmash.

edit: too slow

 

[Crispy4001]

As for the GIFs, I'm on a Mac and using Snapz Pro, Quicktime Player Pro and Graphic Converter to make them.

You're free to edit them in the initial post under "Jump back towards" OoNoiRoO. They're only going to get lost in the shuffle otherwise, and I think they make for great quick examples of the maneuver's utility (props to your playing, of course).

 

[OoNoiRoO]

My question was answered.. the thread can be closed now..
jp..

HOWS MARIO!!?

I hear he is like **** **** compared to melee..??

He's definitely better. I don't see why he's "**** ****" though.

Can Samus still Super Wavedash and Super Grapple?


Im so pissed they nerfed Samus. WTF Sakurai?! Main! She was my main. That so depressing that shes "junk" now.....I really don't want to find another main. Looking like it might be Tlink...

I tried super wavedashing, and i'm sure that's out. TBH I don't even know why I bothered trying. Havn't tried extending the grapple though. I should look into that.

IASA = Interuptible As soon As

Meaning that once the attack is executed and hits a certain point in it's recovery lag you can then cancel that recovery time with any other action.

With Marth's d-tilt in melee the IASA point was as soon as he drew his arm back from the stab.

So, yes please look for IASA moves.

That's quite specific x__x I guess I'll be on the look out for that.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

GIF examples of jump back toward (video from me, GIFs made by Crispy4001)

Seen in the following GIFs is Toon Link running toward Ganondorf and then approaching him with multiple back airs while still moving toward the enemy.

Edited. Props and thanks =D

 

[soulz]

If crouch cancel is what i used as ice climbers to smash attack in melee, sorry i'm not as knowledgeable about these things, then i'm pretty disheartened. But i think the best way to solve the problem is to actually test them out and find otherways to use characters to their advantage.

 

[Zodiac]

I am paticulary excited about the jump back towards, I have many plans brewing for it even now.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

Noir, do you have AIM or MSN? if so, whats your name on? you can PM it to me

AIM - oosomeone41oo

MSN - oosomeone41oo@hotmail.com

lol

 

[Japanese Monk]

What about ZSS...whats your feelings on her?

edit: Also if you change the Jump to be mapped on the "L" button, can you Short hop by just slightly tapping it. Or does it make you press it all the way.

Im wondering would it be more beneficial in the long run to use "L" for jumping.

 

[Crispy4001]

I'm a moderator over at 1up, and someone in our community (the_puff_of_doom) came up with a great alternative name for "Jump back towards" I had to share:

Reverse aerial rush - or RAR


Take it or leave it OoNoiRoO. Everything's up to you, since you discovered it.

 

[Help!]

I'm a moderator over at 1up, and someone in our community (the_puff_of_doom) came up with a great alternative name for "Jump back towards" I had to share:

Reverse aerial rush - or RAR


Take it or leave it OoNoiRoO. Everything's up to you, since you discovered it.

I'm liking this.