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No Crying Until the End: Ninten for Smash Ultimate!

FerrousFarron

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I've been looking around for information on this leak that talks about the "Brave" codename, and I can't seem to find anything aside from speculation about Erdrick. I would like to see where we're getting our information from, especially since I'm compiling a google doc of evidence to show some particularly stubborn friends ; )))

So if anyone has the links to the information about "Brave"'s height and where it's believed that the character will be "chibi-like", I'd really appreciate it.

On an interesting note, while I was digging around for information, it turns out that Itoi was a big fan of Dragon Quest...you know, the franchise that most people speculate "Brave"is coming from. Thought that was a funny coincidence.
 
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I've been looking around for information on this leak that talks about the "Brave" codename, and I can't seem to find anything aside from speculation about Erdrick. I would like to see where we're getting our information from, especially since I'm compiling a google doc of evidence to show some particularly stubborn friends ; )))

So if anyone has the links to the information about "Brave"'s height and where it's believed that the character will be "chibi-like", I'd really appreciate it.

On an interesting note, while I was digging around for information, it turns out that Itoi was a big fan of Dragon Quest...you know, the franchise that most people speculate "Brave"is coming from. Thought that was a funny coincidence.
So here are the stats of the brave character aside from height, they come from a dataminer called Mizumi: https://twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1080971781790416896?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1080971781790416896&ref_url=https://smashboards.com/threads/brave-new-character-datamined.470443/

The height is something that was found out about from Smashboards users, like one called "PolarPanda." This user has a source that has been verified, and the source is identified as a Nintendo ambassador with a first name, a last name, and a face. We got the height info from them, and the height of the brave character is a smidge shorter than Mario and about as tall as Ness and Lucas. For reference, here are the heights of all the Smash Ultimate characters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHwZKTf7UQ

Edit: The character was never specified to be chibi, but a smidge shorter than Mario and about as tall as Ness and Lucas

Edit 2: We reached 30 pages!!!! Congrats everyone!
 
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TheBeastHimself

No time for tea, uncle, gotta capture the Avatar!
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Evidence that "Brave" is Ninten:
  1. Brave, along with Ness and Lucas, generally have the same height.
  2. Brave does not have a rapid jab attack, like Ness and Lucas.
  3. Brave is slightly faster than Lucas, who is slightly faster than Ness.
Evidence that "Brave" is not Ninten:
  1. Ness and Lucas share a weight value of 94, while Brave has a weight value of 101.
 

FerrousFarron

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I was able to track down some posts by this user, and I do have some concerns. Not about the legitimacy, but more because of some explanations.

I don't know if it's just because people are hype for Erdrick like we are for Ninten, but thing is, they do have theories of their own. I did read in that same thread where PolarPanda is posting that Erdrick does have a "child" design? I don't know anything about Dragon Quest though, so I don't know if that's true or not.

I desperately want to believe that "Brave" being the same (or close) height as Ness and Lucas means it's not Erdrick, but I didn't realize he could have a past design that would fit that height value. I want to believe!

Evidence that "Brave" is not Ninten:
  1. Ness and Lucas share a weight value of 94, while Brave has a weight value of 101.
I'm pretty dumb/newer to flat numbers in the game's data like this, how significant is a 7-point difference in weight here?
 
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D

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I was able to track down some posts by this user, and I do have some concerns. Not about the legitimacy, but more because of some explanations.

I don't know if it's just because people are hype for Erdrick like we are for Ninten, but thing is, they do have theories of their own. I did read in that same thread where PolarPanda is posting that Erdrick does have a "child" design? I don't know anything about Dragon Quest though, so I don't know if that's true or not.

I desperately want to believe that "Brave" being the same (or close) height as Ness and Lucas means it's not Erdrick, but I didn't realize he could have a past design that would fit that height value. I want to believe!



I'm pretty dumb/newer to flat numbers in the game's data like this, how significant is a 7-point difference in weight here?
The main reason people are speculating Erdrick (in which, yes, he does have a child design) is because he has appeared in many rumors and leaks, and a lot of the leakers see him as the most likely Square Enix character. They also believe that "brave," as a name, is referring to Erdrick, but other than that, the stats don't match up with him.

So yeah, the only reason people are speculating it to be kid Erdrick is just because he has appeared in many rumors and leaks, and this would fit the height of brave. I personally don't think brave is Erdrick though.

And about the weight, I could see Ninten fitting this due to the inconsistencies of weight in Smash. For instance, Mewtwo is very heavy in Pokemon, but is one of the lightest characters in Smash. Ike and Ridley are the same weight, with Piranha Plant being heavier than both of them

Edit: Good night everyone!
 
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FerrousFarron

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Makes sense, and that did make me consider something else, though this is probably just me reaching again.

Assuming Nintendo would like to make Ninten more representative of his game as opposed to just being a semi-clone or an echo, he would have to have almost entirely defensive PSI, no? The only reasonable exception to this could be PK Beam, if they decide to give him that despite not learning it in Mother 1.

That being said, heavier fighters are harder to launch, and making a defensive fighter heavier would make sense. Ninten comes across as defensive just because of his arsenal of nothing except defensive/support PSI. If they wanted to differentiate him from Ness and Lucas, making him harder to launch and more defensive wouldn't be a surprising place for them to start.
 
D

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Makes sense, and that did make me consider something else, though this is probably just me reaching again.

Assuming Nintendo would like to make Ninten more representative of his game as opposed to just being a semi-clone or an echo, he would have to have almost entirely defensive PSI, no? The only reasonable exception to this could be PK Beam, if they decide to give him that despite not learning it in Mother 1.

That being said, heavier fighters are harder to launch, and making a defensive fighter heavier would make sense. Ninten comes across as defensive just because of his arsenal of nothing except defensive/support PSI. If they wanted to differentiate him from Ness and Lucas, making him harder to launch and more defensive wouldn't be a surprising place for them to start.
This is what I was just thinking of. Along with the weight inconsistencies, this is another reason Ninten is 7 points heavier than Ness and Lucas, because he is more unique!
 

RileyXY1

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What we do know is that "Brave" is most likely a child character or someone who is child sized.
 
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What we do know is that "Brave" is most likely a child character or someone who is child sized.
Yes. Along with this, brave has a speed of 1.74 (just a tiny bit slower than Young Link), does not have a wall jump, does not have a rapid jab, has a weight of 101 (Mario has a weight of 98, Megaman at 102), slides quite a bit, and (don't remember where this info was obtained, but the insiders follow along with it) is floaty
 

RileyXY1

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Yes. Along with this, brave has a speed of 1.74 (just a tiny bit slower than Young Link), does not have a wall jump, does not have a rapid jab, has a weight of 101 (Mario has a weight of 98, Megaman at 102), slides quite a bit, and (don't remember where this info was obtained, but the insiders follow along with it) is floaty
That just makes it even more likely that "Brave" is a child.
 
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D

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That just makes it even more likely that "Brave" is a child.
Not just any kid

The asthmatic psychic

Ninten fits the height, is likely to slide, is floaty, is unlikely to wall jump, weight is inconsistent in Smash and can be because he is more unique than Ness and Lucas, and running speed is reasonable imo
 
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The Anigriffin

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Is it weird that one of the differences I thought Ninten could have would him being super sturdy?

Seeing that the main version of Erdrick I see is the adult one, I honestly don't see him being any shorter than Young Link. Also with him having his rights shared between like 5 different owners, him being mystery character 70 is super unlikely. Also Young Link can wall jump pretty sure, so, I'd kinda be surprised if kid Erdrick didn't myself.

It'd kinda be like if Goku ended up in Smash and ended up as kid Goku.

Not to mention the codename people cracked in two minutes while Joker's actually took a bit of thought.

I guess what I'm saying is Kid Erdrick over the one the wiki portrays as his main form is unlikely. Especially if they're not gonna do a gender swap costume change.
 
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Is it weird that one of the differences I thought Ninten could have would him being super sturdy?

Seeing that the main version of Erdrick I see is the adult one, I honestly don't see him being any shorter than Young Link. Also with him having his rights shared between like 5 different owners, him being mystery character 70 is super unlikely. Also Young Link can wall jump pretty sure, so, I'd kinda be surprised if kid Erdrick didn't myself.

It'd kinda be like if Goku ended up in Smash and ended up as kid Goku.

Not to mention the codename people cracked in two minutes while Joker's actually took a bit of thought.

I guess what I'm saying is Kid Erdrick over the one the wiki portrays as his main form is unlikely. Especially if they're not gonna do a gender swap costume change.
That's another thing I was thinking of when I was trying to see if Ninten matched the stats of brave. He could very well be it guys.

Even if it were kid Erdrick, the thing is that brave slides, which is something Eddy doesn't do.

And yeah, the adult version is the more recognizable design, the design you think if when you think "Erdrick." Sakurai usually goes for those, so I doubt brave is Eddy
 

RileyXY1

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Is it weird that one of the differences I thought Ninten could have would him being super sturdy?

Seeing that the main version of Erdrick I see is the adult one, I honestly don't see him being any shorter than Young Link. Also with him having his rights shared between like 5 different owners, him being mystery character 70 is super unlikely. Also Young Link can wall jump pretty sure, so, I'd kinda be surprised if kid Erdrick didn't myself.

It'd kinda be like if Goku ended up in Smash and ended up as kid Goku.

Not to mention the codename people cracked in two minutes while Joker's actually took a bit of thought.

I guess what I'm saying is Kid Erdrick over the one the wiki portrays as his main form is unlikely. Especially if they're not gonna do a gender swap costume change.
Yeah. I think that they would use normal Erdrick over the kid version, which makes him unlikely to be "Brave" because the data strongly implies that "Brave" is a child character.
 

The Anigriffin

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That's another thing I was thinking of when I was trying to see if Ninten matched the stats of brave. He could very well be it guys.

Even if it were kid Erdrick, the thing is that brave slides, which is something Eddy doesn't do.

And yeah, the adult version is the more recognizable design, the design you think if when you think "Erdrick." Sakurai usually goes for those, so I doubt brave is Eddy
Just don't call him a lock or anything yet is all. ;)

I was playing SSBU last night and I can vouch and say Ness slides a lot. There wasn't something else kinda interesting with his and Lucas's character models. I don't have a pic on hand, but when they get stuck in the ground, their eye should grow wide and they have stress marks under their eyes.

Call me crazy but doesn't Ninten have those on his clay model?
 
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Just don't call him a lock or anything yet is all. ;)

I was playing SSBU last night and I can vouch and say Ness slides a lot. There wasn't something else kinda interesting with his and Lucas's character models. I don't have a pic on hand, but when they get stuck in the ground, their eye should grow wide and they have stress marks under their eyes.

Call me crazy but doesn't Ninten have those on his clay model?
I won't call him a lock yet ;)

They are hard to see, but yes, he does
 

TheBeastHimself

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Honestly it's great to see how optimistic @Zack E. and The Anigriffin The Anigriffin are about Ninten being in the DLC pass, almost the opposite way of how I'm feeling. I'm glad that you two can lead such brilliant discussions with your passions about Ninten and Mother 1. But there is one warning I wanted to give you two, and this isn't me trying to hype police or anything, but it's that when your excitement, passion, and optimism combines, you will be blinded from seeing the other side of the coin and only believe that Mother content is 100% going down in 2019. I, unfortunately, can see this pessimistic view all too well for some reason, but it's keeping me grounded. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you two, but I just wanted y'all to be careful about believing Ninten/Mother related content will definitely happen because imagine how much it would sting if Nintendo didn't do anything, which is a very likely possibility on the table.
 
D

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Honestly it's great to see how optimistic @Zack E. and The Anigriffin The Anigriffin are about Ninten being in the DLC pass, almost the opposite way of how I'm feeling. I'm glad that you two can lead such brilliant discussions with your passions about Ninten and Mother 1. But there is one warning I wanted to give you two, and this isn't me trying to hype police or anything, but it's that when your excitement, passion, and optimism combines, you will be blinded from seeing the other side of the coin and only believe that Mother content is 100% going down in 2019. I, unfortunately, can see this pessimistic view all too well for some reason, but it's keeping me grounded. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you two, but I just wanted y'all to be careful about believing Ninten/Mother related content will definitely happen because imagine how much it would sting if Nintendo didn't do anything, which is a very likely possibility on the table.
As a Geno fan, trust me, I know how to keep my expectations tempered :D

Yeah, it may not happen, but I think it's likely and I'm excited for 2019!
 

RileyXY1

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Honestly it's great to see how optimistic @Zack E. and The Anigriffin The Anigriffin are about Ninten being in the DLC pass, almost the opposite way of how I'm feeling. I'm glad that you two can lead such brilliant discussions with your passions about Ninten and Mother 1. But there is one warning I wanted to give you two, and this isn't me trying to hype police or anything, but it's that when your excitement, passion, and optimism combines, you will be blinded from seeing the other side of the coin and only believe that Mother content is 100% going down in 2019. I, unfortunately, can see this pessimistic view all too well for some reason, but it's keeping me grounded. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you two, but I just wanted y'all to be careful about believing Ninten/Mother related content will definitely happen because imagine how much it would sting if Nintendo didn't do anything, which is a very likely possibility on the table.
"Brave's" stats have been leaked and they make it more likely that "Brave" is indeed Ninten.
 

TheBeastHimself

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"Brave's" stats have been leaked and they make it more likely that "Brave" is indeed Ninten.
Brave could be Ninten, but Brave could also be any other video game character that can possibly fit those stats. Everyone is looking for evidence to believe that Brave is their most wanted character, and Ninten is no different.

Listen, I feel like I'm the person that brings negativity to this thread, but I don't do that with ill intentions. No offense to anyone here, but a lot of the time this place feels like an echo chamber with hardly anyone bringing up points against Ninten. And if this is to be a healthy speculation thread, it needs its occasional dose of pessimism so that nobody is crying at the end if Ninten isn't confirmed (see what I did there? Bad joke...)
 
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D

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Brave could be Ninten, but Brave could also be any other video game character that can possibly fit those stats. Everyone is looking for evidence to believe that Brave is their most wanted character, and Ninten is no different.

Listen, I feel like I'm the person that brings negativity to this thread, but I don't do that with ill intentions. No offense to anyone here, but a lot of the time this place feels like an echo chamber with hardly anyone bringing up points against Ninten. And if this is to be a healthy speculation thread, it needs its occasional dose of pessimism so that nobody is crying at the end if Ninten isn't confirmed (see what I did there? Bad joke...)
You are right, it's good for people to have different opinions about things.

Also it's no crying until the end, so we will cry if Ninten is in
 

RileyXY1

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Ninten getting in will also get those guys who say that "Spirits are deconfirmations" to shut up.
Brave could be Ninten, but Brave could also be any other video game character that can possibly fit those stats. Everyone is looking for evidence to believe that Brave is their most wanted character, and Ninten is no different.

Listen, I feel like I'm the person that brings negativity to this thread, but I don't do that with ill intentions. No offense to anyone here, but a lot of the time this place feels like an echo chamber with hardly anyone bringing up points against Ninten. And if this is to be a healthy speculation thread, it needs its occasional dose of pessimism so that nobody is crying at the end if Ninten isn't confirmed (see what I did there? Bad joke...)
There's not a lot of other characters that can fit those stats.
 

Mad Duck

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Brave could be Ninten, but Brave could also be any other video game character that can possibly fit those stats. Everyone is looking for evidence to believe that Brave is their most wanted character, and Ninten is no different.

Listen, I feel like I'm the person that brings negativity to this thread, but I don't do that with ill intentions. No offense to anyone here, but a lot of the time this place feels like an echo chamber with hardly anyone bringing up points against Ninten. And if this is to be a healthy speculation thread, it needs its occasional dose of pessimism so that nobody is crying at the end if Ninten isn't confirmed (see what I did there? Bad joke...)
Sometimes I feel like a hidden villain here because I want Ninten but I also want Erdrick to be playable as well lol.
I totally understand if you feel pessimistic,I am too,I don't hype myself with any Mother rumor of any kind if it's not 100% confirmed. I want something announced this year,but there is a high probability that nothing will happen. Heck,when Metroid turned 30 Nintendo did absolutely nothing (just a 3DS Samus theme),and it's a more relevant franchise for them than Mother.
 

FerrousFarron

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I was in class and not able to respond at the time, but I did realize that being the same height as Ness and Lucas, being floaty, but being heavier could make a case for Masked Man. Or, like TheBeastHimself said, there is the unfortunate reality that there could be any number of characters who fit the description. I'm still hopeful and optimistic for Ninten since there's a lot of evidence in his favor, but there's always that bit of doubt in my mind because there are lots of possible characters that are completely off of our radar.
 
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Masked Man could be brave, but I find Ninten more likely due to all the evidence in his favor, which The Anigriffin The Anigriffin made 2 powerpoints on, and MM doesn't have that evidence imo.

One big point against MM is that he is a Japan only character, and Sakurai tries to avoid adding them. Lucas was added to Brawl because Sakurai thought that Mother 3 was coming to the west. He was added back as DLC in Smash 4 due to the fan demand, and was added in Ultimate because "everyone is here."

That point may not be valid if Mother 3 comes to the west or is remade, however.

I still believe Ninten is more likely though
 
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FerrousFarron

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I firmly stand by "never say never" and "never say always", but yeah, I do agree with you there. It's not as likely for sure. That still leaves my main concern of "off-radar" characters. For all we know, there could be someone that very few people, if any, could predict. Again, don't get me wrong, there's tons of evidence in our favor and I think it's extremely probable. It's just something that bothers me, especially since I can't identify the possible competition.
 

TheBeastHimself

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Ninten getting in will also get those guys who say that "Spirits are deconfirmations" to shut up.

There's not a lot of other characters that can fit those stats.
I'd say the stats do point in Ninten's favor, but like you just said, there are other characters than can fit those stats as well. Sakurai can get his hands on a multitude of video game characters so there are bound to be plenty that can fit "Brave's" stats.

I'm still hopeful and optimistic for Nintendo since there's a lot of evidence in his favor, but there's always that bit of doubt in my mind because there are lots of possible characters that are completely off of our radar.
I don't think there's a lot of evidence in Ninten's favor. The main one would be "Mother's 30th Anniversary is this year". That can be used as evidence if you are to assume that Nintendo is doing something this year. Otherwise, that is very flimsy evidence because we don't know what Nintendo would do. So this only works as evidence if you want to believe that Nintendo will do something, which to me, I sorta doubt because it's Mother, not Mario. And just to clarify because I feel it will be brought up, the only reason they released EBB for EarthBound's anniversary is because the game was already localized and ready to be distributed for years.

Other than that, Brave is also very flimsy evidence because it only works if you want to believe Brave could be Ninten.

If Nintendo wants to maximize their profits for DLC, they most likely won't throw Ninten on there. Yes, EBB is one of the most popular Wii U VC games, but c'mon if EBB really had that much of an impact than everyone would be talking about it as if it were Undertale or something. As unfortunate as it is to accept, although EBB and EB were popular on VC, barely anyone has heard of the series, and barely anyone has played a game in the series. I know others have different opinions but these are just mine and I'm glad I won't get attacked for sharing them.
 
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I firmly stand by "never say never" and "never say always", but yeah, I do agree with you there. It's not as likely for sure. That still leaves my main concern of "off-radar" characters. For all we know, there could be someone that very few people, if any, could predict. Again, don't get me wrong, there's tons of evidence in our favor and I think it's extremely probable. It's just something that bothers me, especially since I can't identify the possible competition.
This is a good point. I think there is good evidence in Ninten's favor, but anything can happen at the end of the day.

I'd say the stats do point in Ninten's favor, but like you just said, there are other characters than can fit those stats as well. Sakurai can get his hands on a multitude of video game characters so there are bound to be plenty that can fit "Brave's" stats.



I don't think there's a lot of evidence in Ninten's favor. The main one would be "Mother's 30th Anniversary is this year". That can be used as evidence if you are to assume that Nintendo is doing something this year. Otherwise, that is very flimsy evidence because we don't know what Nintendo would do. So this only works as evidence if you want to believe that Nintendo will do something, which to me, I sorta doubt because it's Mother, not Mario. And just to clarify because I feel it will be brought up, the only reason they released EBB for EarthBound's anniversary is because the game was already localized and ready to be distributed for years.

Other than that, Brave is also very flimsy evidence because it only works if you want to believe Brave could be Ninten.

If Nintendo wants to maximize their profits for DLC, they most likely won't throw Ninten on there. Yes, EBB is one of the most popular Wii U VC games, but c'mon if EBB really had that much of an impact than everyone would be talking about it as if it were Undertale or something. As unfortunate as it is to accept, although EBB and EB were popular on VC, barely anyone has heard of the series, and barely anyone has played a game in the series. I know others have different opinions but these are just mine and I'm glad I won't get attacked for sharing them.
I think there actually is good evidence in Ninten's favor. I will link you The Anigriffin The Anigriffin 's powerpoint: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ZKH0sLGUvZxEhEjfFQyzi4krEArlo9iXo4RkGzDGrAU/edit#slide=id.p

I also think Ninten can promote Mother 3 localized or a remake of the 3 Mother games. Remember that Corrin was DLC in Smash 4 as a promotion. I know you think something Mother related next year is unlikely, but I believe it is likely

Also, the "few people have heard it" argument is pretty weak because you could say the same about Lucas, Roy, and Corrin. Especially Corrin, but he was DLC anyways
 
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Mad Duck

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Oooh The Anigriffin The Anigriffin is the one that made THAT powerpoint? I remember I saw one at LaxChris or whatever channel before the game came out,I really liked it! it's a shame that the next day or so the banner hoax became popular and I lost hope after that.
 
D

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Oooh The Anigriffin The Anigriffin is the one that made THAT powerpoint? I remember I saw one at LaxChris or whatever channel before the game came out,I really liked it! it's a shame that the next day or so the banner hoax became popular and I lost hope after that.
Yep!

It really is awesome. She made a second one recently too, which is the one I linked
 

RileyXY1

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I'd say the stats do point in Ninten's favor, but like you just said, there are other characters than can fit those stats as well. Sakurai can get his hands on a multitude of video game characters so there are bound to be plenty that can fit "Brave's" stats.
"Brave" pretty much has to be a child character going by the stats. If you only count children, there's not a lot of options.
 
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FLGibsonIII

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Oooh The Anigriffin The Anigriffin is the one that made THAT powerpoint? I remember I saw one at LaxChris or whatever channel before the game came out,I really liked it! it's a shame that the next day or so the banner hoax became popular and I lost hope after that.
Yeah, I remember he sent that to me a few days after the VGA's and I was honestly really impressed by it.
 

FLGibsonIII

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Honestly it's great to see how optimistic @Zack E. and The Anigriffin The Anigriffin are about Ninten being in the DLC pass, almost the opposite way of how I'm feeling. I'm glad that you two can lead such brilliant discussions with your passions about Ninten and Mother 1. But there is one warning I wanted to give you two, and this isn't me trying to hype police or anything, but it's that when your excitement, passion, and optimism combines, you will be blinded from seeing the other side of the coin and only believe that Mother content is 100% going down in 2019. I, unfortunately, can see this pessimistic view all too well for some reason, but it's keeping me grounded. Maybe I'm misinterpreting you two, but I just wanted y'all to be careful about believing Ninten/Mother related content will definitely happen because imagine how much it would sting if Nintendo didn't do anything, which is a very likely possibility on the table.
For me, the November direct was extremely disappointing, but I was still able to move on from it. Because of that direct and Joker, I have already accepted that I might not like a single character in the fighter pass. I think my opinion differs from others here in that I believe Ninten's chances are 100% tied to a mother trilogy of sorts. This would resolve my biggest fear of Nintendo vetoing a character like Ninten. In fact, Nintendo might have even suggested a mother character if they are actually making a trilogy. I just happen to think a trilogy/remake is likely for a variety of reasons. Even in other areas though, people in this thread have found evidence to support Ninten. I really believe Ninten has a good shot, but at this point I always expect the worst.
 
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>Gets mentioned 3 times

Um. Did i miss something? Slightly concerned.
Oh no, everything is alright :)

TheBeastHimself mentioned you because he liked how you are optimistic of Ninten being DLC, and you were mentioned twice cause we were referring to the powerpoints you created
 

The Anigriffin

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
1,609
Oh no, everything is alright :)

TheBeastHimself mentioned you because he liked how you are optimistic of Ninten being DLC, and you were mentioned twice cause we were referring to the powerpoints you created
Oh okay. I just got out of class and just saw myself getting pined three times and immediately went "Oh god almighty what happened."
 
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