No Crying Until the End: Ninten for Smash Ultimate!

[Deleted member]

That's for sure. I remember when I got PK Freeze gamma and thought to myself, "I wonder if this works on bosses..." Then proceeded to kill the Magicant dragon in two hits.

Taking a bit of a break from actually playing Smash Ultimate for a bit to organise my portfolio today so there probs won't be any new semi important updates from me today.

I know. The broken moves are PK freeze gamma, PK beam gamma and omega, and PK fire omega.

Alright. Taking breaks is good

I just love how the Mother series evolved from Mother 1 to Mother 3. It is the best series ever created. It needs more acknowledgement. It needs the protagonist of the first game in Smash. It needs the 3 games of the series to be remade.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Ugh why are there so many dumb children in Lax's comment section.

Actually the better question is... Why do I respond to them?

Why am I like this?

 

[Deleted member]

Ugh why are there so many dumb children in Lax's comment section.

Actually the better question is... Why do I respond to them?

Why am I like this?

Ugh. LaxChris. Makes leak videos about a playable controller. And watch him make one about a playable dice.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Ugh. LaxChris. Makes leak videos about a playable controller. And watch him make one about a playable dice.

Dice Block deconfirmed cuz spirit luz.

It's mostly kids spreading fake news in the Porky evidence video he made. "Reggie said new franchises" bish where. Oh wait. He didn't.

I mean I'm not the biggest Porky fan and don't think he's the most likely, but that's just untrue. Lax's fanbase full of children is more of the problem here since they keep spreading false info like a disease.

Edit: Also I just remember some spirits like Psyduck boost PSI abilities but specifically say Ness and Lucas. Think these descriptions were made for story mode and can be altered later? Or would Ninten just be considered a bonus character that it affects?

 

[Deleted member]

Dice Block deconfirmed cuz spirit luz.

It's mostly kids spreading fake news in the Porky evidence video he made. "Reggie said new franchises" bish where. Oh wait. He didn't.

I mean I'm not the biggest Porky fan and don't think he's the most likely, but that's just untrue. Lax's fanbase full of children is more of the problem here since they keep spreading false info like a disease.

Edit: Also I just remember some spirits like Psyduck boost PSI abilities but specifically say Ness and Lucas. Think these descriptions were made for story mode and can be altered later? Or would Ninten just be considered a bonus character that it affects?

Yeah. LaxChris twists words and covers every single leak.

Porky seems likely to people who think that spirits deconfirm. Since I don't think spirits deconfirm, added with all of the oddities in Ninten's favor, I think Ninten is more likely.

I don't know about that. Probably Ninten being considered a bonus character that it affects.

The possible Ninten reveal just gets more exciting the longer we wait

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I'm sorta feeling Ninten for DLC, especially after Reggie's comments at the VGAs talking about surprise characters. Imagine a Ninten trailer. 90% of the Smash community will be like "WHAT?! WHO IS THIS?! WHO SAW THIS COMING?!?!?!"

 

[Deleted member]

I'm sorta feeling Ninten for DLC, especially after Reggie's comments at the VGAs talking about surprise characters. Imagine a Ninten trailer. 90% of the Smash community will be like "WHAT?! WHO IS THIS?! WHO SAW THIS COMING?!?!?!"

Exactly. It would be glorious.

When Joker fans were mentioning Joker, I considered him, but I found him hella unlikely. That's....the same thing people are doing with Ninten now. I feel really good about him being DLC

 

[The Anigriffin]

Exactly. It would be glorious.

When Joker fans were mentioning Joker, I considered him, but I found him hella unlikely. That's....the same thing people are doing with Ninten now. I feel really good about him being DLC

It's funny. My best friend's most wanted character besides Ninten or a new Zelda character was Joker, but she thought he was a never ever. She flipped her **** when I sent her the trailer shown at the VGAs.

I'm sorta feeling Ninten for DLC, especially after Reggie's comments at the VGAs talking about surprise characters. Imagine a Ninten trailer. 90% of the Smash community will be like "WHAT?! WHO IS THIS?! WHO SAW THIS COMING?!?!?!"

"WHO IS THIS NESS LOOKIN GUY WITH A BANDANA AND WHY IS HE HAVING AN ASTHMA ATTACK ON THE BATTLEFIELD?!?!"

 

[Deleted member]

It's funny. My best friend's most wanted character besides Ninten or a new Zelda character was Joker, but she thought he was a never ever. She flipped her **** when I sent her the trailer shown at the VGAs.


"WHO IS THIS NESS LOOKIN GUY WITH A BANDANA AND WHY IS HE HAVING AN ASTHMA ATTACK ON THE BATTLEFIELD?!?!"

It would feel so good to finally make the "Ness 2" and "no more echoes" detractors eat their words

 

[The Anigriffin]

It would feel so good to finally make the "Ness 2" and "no more echoes" detractors eat their words

"Ness 2" what do these people just forget that Lucas exists? He'd be Ness 3!

Or would he be Ness 0 since he came before? Hmm.

"hE lOoKs LiKe NeSs MaKe HiM aN eChO" kay, but first we have to make Toon Link an echo of Young Link and Dr. Mario an echo of Mario because they look the same. So that means they HAVE to be echos right?

 

[Deleted member]

"Ness 2" what do these people just forget that Lucas exists? He'd be Ness 3!

Or would he be Ness 0 since he came before? Hmm.

"hE lOoKs LiKe NeSs MaKe HiM aN eChO" kay, but first we have to make Toon Link an echo of Young Link and Dr. Mario an echo of Mario because they look the same. So that means they HAVE to be echos right?

He would be Ninten. The true Nintendo mascot

Those Ninten haters are clueless. Ninten fits Sakurai's mindset of fun and unique characters.

I think he might be revealed in a Nintendo Direct announcing Mother 3 for Switch or the 3 Mother games remade, or in a Smash direct along with another character.

Imagine a Smash Direct revealing Ninten then Geno as the final 2 DLC characters. It isn't necessary for me to describe how beautiful it would be

 

[The Anigriffin]

He would be Ninten. The true Nintendo mascot

Those Ninten haters are clueless. Ninten fits Sakurai's mindset of fun and unique characters.

I think he might be revealed in a Nintendo Direct announcing Mother 3 for Switch or the 3 Mother games remade, or in a Smash direct along with another character.

Imagine a Smash Direct revealing Ninten then Geno as the final 2 DLC characters. It isn't necessary for me to describe how beautiful it would be

Balls I can't remember what direct Lucas was revealed in... Either way I think he was announced by Iwata in a regular Nintendo Direct right? I need my memory jogged.

I think the best characters for a Smash direct would be Geno and Banjo together. That'd literally break the internet.

 

[Deleted member]

Balls I can't remember what direct Lucas was revealed in... Either way I think he was announced by Iwata in a regular Nintendo Direct right? I need my memory jogged.

I think the best characters for a Smash direct would be Geno and Banjo together. That'd literally break the internet.

Nah, those 2 should be spread out, not revealed together. It would shatter the internet to pieces otherwise, and I don't think we could handle that lol

I think Lucas was announced at the end of a Nintendo Direct. He was my favorite DLC character

 

[The Anigriffin]

Nah, those 2 should be spread out, not revealed together. It would shatter the internet to pieces otherwise, and I don't think we could handle that lol

I think Lucas was announced at the end of a Nintendo Direct. He was my favorite DLC character

But the internet being shattered to pieces would be fun tho. Love me a good trash fire.

Okay that's what I thought. If Ninten's in I can almost guarentee he's gonna be revealed Isabelle style in a regular direct. And by Isabelle style I mean the last thing shown in the direct. It'd catch everyone off guard and could potentially end with the Mother Collection/Mother 3/Father 2 whatever they have.

 

[Deleted member]

But the internet being shattered to pieces would be fun tho. Love me a good trash fire.

Okay that's what I thought. If Ninten's in I can almost guarentee he's gonna be revealed Isabelle style in a regular direct. And by Isabelle style I mean the last thing shown in the direct. It'd catch everyone off guard and could potentially end with the Mother Collection/Mother 3/Father 2 whatever they have.

That's a good point. All the haters of those 2 characters would be far beyond dead.

Now that you mention it, revealing Ninten at the end of a Nintendo Direct, along with announcing Mother 3 for switch or the 3 Mother games remade is the best outcome.

Hopefully it happens

 

[The Anigriffin]

That's a good point. All the haters of those 2 characters would be far beyond dead.

Now that you mention it, revealing Ninten at the end of a Nintendo Direct, along with announcing Mother 3 for switch or the 3 Mother games remade is the best outcome.

Hopefully it happens

I've been thinking quite a bit about that Magicant track in Ultimate lacking the credits. I just remembered a few things that makes the situation a bit weirder than it already is. One being something that I'd argue solidifies that someone either dropped the ball or something weird is going on.

Firstly, the Snowman mix as well as the Onett/Snowman theme also both contain his credits just like the two Fourside themes.

The other is that I'm 99% sure Keiichi Suzuki owns the rights to Magicant in some form. In fact, both him and Hip Tanaka worked on the version present in the Mother 1 soundtrack meaning that both have some sort of share in the rights. I mean Keiichi Suzuki has his picture with Itoi in the damn booklet that comes with the soundtrack. (I can post a pic if needed, also I recommend the audio CD. All That I Needed Was You is absolutely sublime on it)
I just...

Hirokazu Tanaka LITERALLY MAKES ARRANGEMENTS FOR SSBU. HE IS ACTUALLY A LITERAL STAFF MEMBER.

WHAT IS EVEN HAPPENING.

Edit: I never want to here a "currently relevant" argument ever again until they remove the Rex Mii costume from the game and add him as a playable fighter.

 

[Deleted member]

I've been thinking quite a bit about that Magicant track in Ultimate lacking the credits. I just remembered a few things that makes the situation a bit weirder than it already is. One being something that I'd argue solidifies that someone either dropped the ball or something weird is going on.

Firstly, the Snowman mix as well as the Onett/Snowman theme also both contain his credits just like the two Fourside themes.

The other is that I'm 99% sure Keiichi Suzuki owns the rights to Magicant in some form. In fact, both him and Hip Tanaka worked on the version present in the Mother 1 soundtrack meaning that both have some sort of share in the rights. I mean Keiichi Suzuki has his picture with Itoi in the damn booklet that comes with the soundtrack. (I can post a pic if needed, also I recommend the audio CD. All That I Needed Was You is absolutely sublime on it)
I just...

View attachment 184806

Hirokazu Tanaka LITERALLY MAKES ARRANGEMENTS FOR SSBU. HE IS ACTUALLY A LITERAL STAFF MEMBER.

WHAT IS EVEN HAPPENING.

Edit: I never want to here a "currently relevant" argument ever again until they remove the Rex Mii costume from the game and add him as a playable fighter.

I think I have to get a good night's sleep before I can see what to make of the situation lol. That was some discussion in the Geno thread...

 

[The Anigriffin]

I think I have to get a good night's sleep before I can see what to make of the situation lol. That was some discussion in the Geno thread...

Yeah same here. It's like 1 in the morning where I'm at...

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah same here. It's like 1 in the morning where I'm at...

Yeah, it's about 1:45 where I am at. I will certainly take a long break from that thread, and I check that thread, like, all the time.

I will spend more time here, though Now my need for a Ninten confirmation has greatly risen. It would feel so satisfying and beautiful

 

[The Anigriffin]

Yeah, it's about 1:45 where I am at. I will certainly take a long break from that thread, and I check that thread, like, all the time.

I will spend more time here, though Now my need for a Ninten confirmation has greatly risen. It would feel so satisfying and beautiful

Same time zone? Interesting.

Yeah it's a lot more... Chill here... I've learned that I need to pick my battles better. That and I keep derailing the Geno thread and I feel bad.

 

[Deleted member]

Same time zone? Interesting.

Yeah it's a lot more... Chill here... I've learned that I need to pick my battles better. That and I keep derailing the Geno thread and I feel bad.

There isn't anything wrong with expressing your want for a different character in any of the threads. I do that, but it isn't necessary for the other people in the discussion to try to convince you that your character is unimportant or doesn't have a chance.

Oh well, I hope that discussion was worth it (by that, I mean I REALLY NEED Ninten to be confirmed)

 

[The Anigriffin]

There isn't anything wrong with expressing your want for a different character in any of the threads. I do that, but it isn't necessary for the other people in the discussion to try to convince you that your character is unimportant or doesn't have a chance.

Oh well, I hope that discussion was worth it (by that, I mean I REALLY NEED Ninten to be confirmed)

Hey... I just thought of something... Wasn't there a quote from Itoi of him saying he'd rather the fans make a Mother 4?

 

[Deleted member]

Hey... I just thought of something... Wasn't there a quote from Itoi of him saying he'd rather the fans make a Mother 4?

Was there?! I may have seen something about him wanting Toby Fox to make a Mother 4. That's really interesting, though

 

[The Anigriffin]

Was there?! I may have seen something about him wanting Toby Fox to make a Mother 4. That's really interesting, though

Nah, it wasn't Toby Fox. I remember someone saying it a long time ago, the problem is Itoi quotes are hard to track.

Also about the commercial shirt/bandana being fanon, Mother 1 merch sold to this day uses the commercial designs for advertising. That CD I have? Commercial Ninty is right on the back and this was certainly approved by Itoi since his pic in in the booklet.

 

[Deleted member]

Nah, it wasn't Toby Fox. I remember someone saying it a long time ago, the problem is Itoi quotes are hard to track.

Also about the commercial shirt/bandana being fanon, Mother 1 merch sold to this day uses the commercial designs for advertising. That CD I have? Commercial Ninty is right on the back and this was certainly approved by Itoi since his pic in in the booklet.

That puts a cork in the "not Itoi approved" argument that was being used in the Geno thread. This is really good news.

It wasn't Toby Fox? I don't know, then. I wonder if the protagonist of a possible Mother 4 could be Itoi-approved to be in Smash lol. (After Ninten of course)

 

[The Anigriffin]

That puts a cork in the "not Itoi approved" argument that was being used in the Geno thread. This is really good news.

It wasn't Toby Fox? I don't know, then. I wonder if the protagonist of a possible Mother 4 could be Itoi-approved to be in Smash lol. (After Ninten of course)

I think he just meant fans as a whole...? I have no clue as I don't even know where to start looking for something as obscure as that. Also the wouldn't be received well argument is kinda irrelevant if he was cut and pushed to DLC. Shrug Someone got cut. We just don't know who yet.
Toby Fox making an actual Mother game though? I'd play it. I may not like UT as much as EB but that game is good. Damn good.

This is why I want to find this quote. If he really doesn't mind people making fan games involving his characters or hell thinks the fans should make Mother 4? Why would the "fanon" design be such a big no no to him when he likes the fan work? Personally I think he's more worried about people shouting "Claus is the Masked Man!" Last Jedi style to newbies than Ninten getting a well deserved facelift.

 

[Deleted member]

I think he just meant fans as a whole...? I have no clue as I don't even know where to start looking for something as obscure as that. Also the wouldn't be received well argument is kinda irrelevant if he was cut and pushed to DLC. Shrug Someone got cut. We just don't know who yet.
Toby Fox making an actual Mother game though? I'd play it. I may not like UT as much as EB but that game is good. Damn good.

This is why I want to find this quote. If he really doesn't mind people making fan games involving his characters or hell thinks the fans should make Mother 4? Why would the "fanon" design be such a big no no to him when he likes the fan work? Personally I think he's more worried about people shouting "Claus is the Masked Man!" Last Jedi style to newbies than Ninten getting a well deserved facelift.

Corrin wasn't received well. I don't think Sakurai cares about how many people don't want a certain character. In fact, there are people who actually want Ninten. If he is in, once they see his moveset, they will be interested. Same thing happened with Corrin. His inclusion wasn't received well but people were interested in him when they saw his moveset.

Ninten deserves this. People need to play the game that he is from and see his potential. We just have to be patient.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Corrin wasn't received well. I don't think Sakurai cares about how many people don't want a certain character. In fact, there are people who actually want Ninten. If he is in, once they see his moveset, they will be interested. Same thing happened with Corrin. His inclusion wasn't received well but people were interested in him when they saw his moveset.

Ninten deserves this. People need to play the game that he is from and see his potential. We just have to be patient.

What some people don't realize is that even popular picks like Geno and Banjo have A METRIC TON of detractors or people that don't want them playable or think they're a waste of space. I'm friends with a lot of Bandana Dee fans and they have to deal with so much crap and guess what? Dee is #1 in Japan. A character that's number 1 has just as many haters and detractors as those that want him in the game. Popularity alone doesn't get you a slot. (See Isaac) Move potential ALSO doesn't get you a slot. (See Krystal vs Wolf) A character can share moves while still feel and play completely different (See Isabelle) So I don't get why having a similar side smash makes you reprehensible in the eyes of the public.

Corrin's pretty dope not gonna lie. I feel like they'd get less hate if they weren't the final Smash 4 DLC character.

 

[Deleted member]

What some people don't realize is that even popular picks like Geno and Banjo have A METRIC TON of detractors or people that don't want them playable or think they're a waste of space. I'm friends with a lot of Bandana Dee fans and they have to deal with so much crap and guess what? Dee is #1 in Japan. A character that's number 1 has just as many haters and detractors as those that want him in the game. Popularity alone doesn't get you a slot. (See Isaac) Move potential ALSO doesn't get you a slot. (See Krystal vs Wolf) A character can share moves while still feel and play completely different (See Isabelle) So I don't get why having a similar side smash makes you reprehensible in the eyes of the public.

Corrin's pretty dope not gonna lie. I feel like they'd get less hate if they weren't the final Smash 4 DLC character.

Exactly. The Mother fans would like Ninten (except the ones who want Porky). If Ninten can't be the Mother rep, I would love it to be either Masked Man or Duster. Should be Ninten though

 

[The Anigriffin]

Exactly. The Mother fans would like Ninten (except the ones who want Porky). If Ninten can't be the Mother rep, I would love it to be either Masked Man or Duster. Should be Ninten though

The current relevancy argument doesn’t work or else Skull Kid, Issac and Rex would all be in the game.

When the project plan was being made/the DLC being decided. Claus was still the number 1 pick.

Also I find it funny that people say Itoi is super protective over his ip and then in the same phrase say that he’d be okay with a spoilery boss that depends on other people to even do his dirty work would get into Smash.

I mean, there’s probably a reason why Porky isn’t outright named as a spirit. And it’s probably the same reason for the “Lucas is the Masked Man” red herring the game seems to be pushing.

Edit: Also I find it funny that people think Ninten is unwanted. He isn’t unwanted. People just think he’s so unlikely that there’s no point in supporting him when Porky fans immediately shut them down.

This is why I doubt Porky. Everyone EXPECTS him at this point and have been expecting him for a while now. Joker outright proved that unexpected characters will be coming and what’s more unexpected than the forgotten protagonist?

 

[The Anigriffin]

Ignore this.

 

[Deleted member]

The current relevancy argument doesn’t work or else Skull Kid, Issac and Rex would all be in the game.

When the project plan was being made/the DLC being decided. Claus was still the number 1 pick.

Also I find it funny that people say Itoi is super protective over his ip and then in the same phrase say that he’d be okay with a spoilery boss that depends on other people to even do his dirty work would get into Smash.

I mean, there’s probably a reason why Porky isn’t outright named as a spirit. And it’s probably the same reason for the “Lucas is the Masked Man” red herring the game seems to be pushing.

Edit: Also I find it funny that people think Ninten is unwanted. He isn’t unwanted. People just think he’s so unlikely that there’s no point in supporting him when Porky fans immediately shut them down.

This is why I doubt Porky. Everyone EXPECTS him at this point and have been expecting him for a while now. Joker outright proved that unexpected characters will be coming and what’s more unexpected than the forgotten protagonist?

So much all of this. Btw, two things:

Even though the mod in the Geno thread doubts Ninten, he brought up something to make his moveset more unique. He said that Ninten can use things in his moveset, like Teddy's katana. More things to represent Ninten's party members.

Now that I think about it, Ninten's side smash can be charging up the katana, then striking. His down smash can be him charging up the Hank's bat, then swinging, doing a spinning motion with the bat aimed towards the ground. Loid's flame thrower could be used as an up smash. Ninten charges it, then fires it upwards. And of course PK beam as neutral b.

Second, Sakurai could use Itoi's novel design of Ninten, right? I think then he would be told apart more easily. He wears a (correct me if I am wrong) green and pink striped shirt, a bandana, and has blond hair. This could work better, even more so than the commercial design.

Ignore this.

No

 

[The Anigriffin]

>Ninten with a Katana

I don’t personally think that would happen because that’d dethrone the Holy reaper Ness meme but the thought of this angry child smiting people with a Katana just made my morning.

There’s a few other PSI moves from Ana that he could use as well like Darkness and Brain Cyclone.

I was actually venting to another friend about Ninten and I BSed a moveset to them in like five minutes. It’s super rough but...


PK Beam: Can be charged to numerous levels. Charging too much will hurt Ninten however

PSI controlled Bomerang: You can control how soon it comes back by tapping B again. More damage on the way back.

Dimension Slip: Disappears quickly for a second and if an action command is invited right as he reappears, he attacks the enemy with a bat. Can be used twice in a row also good for recovery.

Telepathy: Read another characters’s mind slowing them down so you can either dodge or counter attack earlier. Requires eye contact

EVE: Cinematic Final Smash involving Ninten getting in Eve’s shoulder and decimating the competition.

No direct move copies here, rather expanding on different ideas surrounding already existing moves yet making them feel different and unique like Isabelle does.


Funny thing. The novel is in itself noncanon yet Itoi himself approves of it. So I don’t think Itoi would be cross over Sakurai giving Ninten a bandana or altering his design when the Novel design looks NOTHING like the model design.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Ninten with a katana is now the best thing ever.

 

[Deleted member]

>Ninten with a Katana

I don’t personally think that would happen because that’d dethrone the Holy reaper Ness meme but the thought of this angry child smiting people with a Katana just made my morning.

There’s a few other PSI moves from Ana that he could use as well like Darkness and Brain Cyclone.

I was actually venting to another friend about Ninten and I BSed a moveset to them in like five minutes. It’s super rough but...


PK Beam: Can be charged to numerous levels. Charging too much will hurt Ninten however

PSI controlled Bomerang: You can control how soon it comes back by tapping B again. More damage on the way back.

Dimension Slip: Disappears quickly for a second and if an action command is invited right as he reappears, he attacks the enemy with a bat. Can be used twice in a row also good for recovery.

Telepathy: Read another characters’s mind slowing them down so you can either dodge or counter attack earlier. Requires eye contact

EVE: Cinematic Final Smash involving Ninten getting in Eve’s shoulder and decimating the competition.

No direct move copies here, rather expanding on different ideas surrounding already existing moves yet making them feel different and unique like Isabelle does.


Funny thing. The novel is in itself noncanon yet Itoi himself approves of it. So I don’t think Itoi would be cross over Sakurai giving Ninten a bandana or altering his design when the Novel design looks NOTHING like the model design.

That's a really cool idea that Ninten controlls the boomerang using his PSI! It would be a lot more interesting than him just throwing it.

Telepathy is also a nice idea for a down b. I was originally thinking PK shield, but, again, this would be more unique.

His Itoi novel design would be awesome.

Ninten with a katana is now the best thing ever.

Fanart. NOW

 

[The Anigriffin]

That's a really cool idea that Ninten controlls the boomerang using his PSI! It would be a lot more interesting than him just throwing it.

Telepathy is also a nice idea for a down b. I was originally thinking PK shield, but, again, this would be more unique.

His Itoi novel design would be awesome.



Fanart. NOW

Judging on Ninten with the commercial shirt with black hair seems to be the most popular “fan” interpretation, I think that’s what we’d end up with with his original design as an alt costume like how Fox still has his Wolf alt. Maybe I’ll try to draw up an Ultimate style Ninten sometime this week.

Katana Ninten is canon now.

 

[Tetrin]

I'd actually like to bring my opinions on why Porky would get in over Ninten here.

In my honest opinion, even though I like Ninten, he would just be a culmination of existing fighters.

So anyone who knows Ninten I'm sure realizes that he's more so a defensive PK user, as opposed to Ness's offensive style. However, that'd be ignorant of the fact that Ninten would probably be given these moves anyway just for being similar in stature. To show you what I mean, Lucas never learned PK Fire, PK Thunder, PK Starstorm, PK Freeze, or PSI Magnet in Mother 3. In other words, he doesn't learn ANY of his specials in Mother 3, and yet he was given them, anyway. Lucas's moveset could've been entirely different from Ness's, but instead, they gave him moves he doesn't even learn just because of their similar appearance. The only thing I could see being different about Ninten would be his forward smash being a boomerang, which would still mimic two other existing characters.

Smash doesn't give all too much respect towards a character's potential moveset if they can get away with making them similar. Ganondorf fights very similarly to Captain Falcon, much of Luigi's moveset doesn't have anything to do with him, Sheik's moveset is entirely fabricated and takes little inspiration from OoT, etc. I'm fairly certain Ninten would be a semi clone or echo of Ness at best.

Ninten would also have the same forward smash as Ness, considering their shared affinity for baseball.

Ninten's up smash, however, I assume would be different, since yo-yos aren't in the original Mother.

Alternatively, Porky just shows much more promise. More people recognize Porky because he was a boss in Brawl, which even if this is an assumption, I think it's clear Brawl sold more the Beginnings. Plus, Porky has a much larger following than Ninten, and the surprise element of him being announced would therefore appeal to a much less niche audience.

Spoiler: For Anigriffin and Zack E

I don't know why you consistently disregarded my claim that relevance was not my only point, but I'll put it here for the third time to ensure there's no confusion:

PORKY IS MORE APPEALING TO CASUALS, HAS MORE FANSERVICE, IS MORE RELEVANT TO MODERN GAMING, HAS MORE MOVESET POTENTIAL, IS MORE PROMINENT TO HIS SERIES, IS A MUCH BIGGER ICON OF MOTHER THAN NINTEN, AND HAILS FROM MUCH MORE WELL RECEIVED GAMES THAN NINTEN.

There you go, you two. Now you can't say my only points were relevance.

Even further, Porky has no spirit. I know everyone here loves arguing that it's the ASC since Porky was locked there for all of eternity, but that would be overlooking Porky not having a spirit to represent Brawl. All the Brawl bosses have spirits, and I don't recall fighting the ASC in that game. They could very well be waiting to just add Porky as a spirit, but we don't know for sure. Because of that uncertainty, we can definitely say that him being added as a character is still on the table. Using an example from the same series to further disprove your claim about the ASC being Porky's spirit, take someone from the very same series, Claus.

Spoiler

Claus is the Masked Man, and yet, they both have spirits. At the end of Mother 3, Claus dies as Claus, not as the Masked Man. Using your argument that Porky is represented in his final form (the ASC) is entirely invalid because of the Masked Man spirit.

You could argue that next year is the anniversary of Mother 1, which would in turn boost Ninten's chances over Porky, but it's the anniversary of the franchise in its entirety, as well. It's not only a time to reflect on the first game, but rather, all the games in between. Like a real life anniversary; it's not just celebrating the very day you got married, it's a commemoration of all those moments in between.

 

[The Anigriffin]

I'd actually like to bring my opinions on why Porky would get in over Ninten here.

In my honest opinion, even though I like Ninten, he would just be a culmination of existing fighters.

So anyone who knows Ninten I'm sure realizes that he's more so a defensive PK user, as opposed to Ness's offensive style. However, that'd be ignorant of the fact that Ninten would probably be given these moves anyway just for being similar in stature. To show you what I mean, Lucas never learned PK Fire, PK Thunder, PK Starstorm, PK Freeze, or PSI Magnet in Mother 3. In other words, he doesn't learn ANY of his specials in Mother 3, and yet he was given them, anyway. Lucas's moveset could've been entirely different from Ness's, but instead, they gave him moves he doesn't even learn just because of their similar appearance. The only thing I could see being different about Ninten would be his forward smash being a boomerang, which would still mimic two other existing characters.

Smash doesn't give all too much respect towards a character's potential moveset if they can get away with making them similar. Ganondorf fights very similarly to Captain Falcon, much of Luigi's moveset doesn't have anything to do with him, Sheik's moveset is entirely fabricated and takes little inspiration from OoT, etc. I'm fairly certain Ninten would be a semi clone or echo of Ness at best.

Ninten would also have the same forward smash as Ness, considering their shared affinity for baseball.

Ninten's up smash, however, I assume would be different, since yo-yos aren't in the original Mother.

Alternatively, Porky just shows much more promise. More people recognize Porky because he was a boss in Brawl, which even if this is an assumption, I think it's clear Brawl sold more the Beginnings. Plus, Porky has a much larger following than Ninten, and the surprise element of him being announced would therefore appeal to a much less niche audience.

Spoiler: For Anigriffin and Zack E

I don't know why you consistently disregarded my claim that relevance was not my only point, but I'll put it here for the third time to ensure there's no confusion:

PORKY IS MORE APPEALING TO CASUALS, HAS MORE FANSERVICE, IS MORE RELEVANT TO MODERN GAMING, HAS MORE MOVESET POTENTIAL, IS MORE PROMINENT TO HIS SERIES, IS A MUCH BIGGER ICON OF MOTHER THAN NINTEN, AND HAILS FROM MUCH MORE WELL RECEIVED GAMES THAN NINTEN.

There you go, you two. Now you can't say my only points were relevance.

Even further, Porky has no spirit. I know everyone here loves arguing that it's the ASC since Porky was locked there for all of eternity, but that would be overlooking Porky not having a spirit to represent Brawl. All the Brawl bosses have spirits, and I don't recall fighting the ASC in that game. They could very well be waiting to just add Porky as a spirit, but we don't know for sure. Because of that uncertainty, we can definitely say that him being added as a character is still on the table. Using an example from the same series to further disprove your claim about the ASC being Porky's spirit, take someone from the very same series, Claus.

Spoiler

Claus is the Masked Man, and yet, they both have spirits. At the end of Mother 3, Claus dies as Claus, not as the Masked Man. Using your argument that Porky is represented in his final form (the ASC) is entirely invalid because of the Masked Man spirit.

You could argue that next year is the anniversary of Mother 1, which would in turn boost Ninten's chances over Porky, but it's the anniversary of the franchise in its entirety, as well. It's not only a time to reflect on the first game, but rather, all the games in between. Like a real life anniversary; it's not just celebrating the very day you got married, it's a commemoration of all those moments in between.

I do thank you for stating your points more clearly here and yes Porky does have a chance however again your points are also matters of personal opinions.

Porky would also be a culmination of existing fighters namely Bowser Jr, Samus, and King Dedede. With 70 unique characters on the roster it’s almost impossible for one to be completely unique.

Not everyone has played Brawl either. The game is 10 years old now and Porky was possibly one of the more uninteresting bosses there. Also appealing to casuals doesn’t make much sense when the first DLC character, Joker, was anything but appealing to casuals.

People expecting Porky goes directly against what Reggie said about all the characters being surprise additions doesn’t it?

Itoi is the one that allows the certain characters to be spirits. Masked Man and Claus being seperated actually supports the argument of no obvious spoilers in the game and Porky is just that. A spoiler. The ASC was deliberately chosen for a reason.

Mother 1 is the only Mother game to not have a character represented in Smash. Mother 1 came to the states alongside Lucas as DLC in June 2015. Ninten coming with Mother 3 isn’t too hard of a reach if you think about it.

Now you don’t have to agree with everything I say obviously, but this is why I don’t think Porky is the most likely Mother rep. Is he possible? Certainly, I’m not going to argue that he’s impossible as this is Smash and anything’s possible I mean we got Ridley.

Just don’t count Ninty out is all. Have a nice day bud.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd actually like to bring my opinions on why Porky would get in over Ninten here.

In my honest opinion, even though I like Ninten, he would just be a culmination of existing fighters.

So anyone who knows Ninten I'm sure realizes that he's more so a defensive PK user, as opposed to Ness's offensive style. However, that'd be ignorant of the fact that Ninten would probably be given these moves anyway just for being similar in stature. To show you what I mean, Lucas never learned PK Fire, PK Thunder, PK Starstorm, PK Freeze, or PSI Magnet in Mother 3. In other words, he doesn't learn ANY of his specials in Mother 3, and yet he was given them, anyway. Lucas's moveset could've been entirely different from Ness's, but instead, they gave him moves he doesn't even learn just because of their similar appearance. The only thing I could see being different about Ninten would be his forward smash being a boomerang, which would still mimic two other existing characters.

Smash doesn't give all too much respect towards a character's potential moveset if they can get away with making them similar. Ganondorf fights very similarly to Captain Falcon, much of Luigi's moveset doesn't have anything to do with him, Sheik's moveset is entirely fabricated and takes little inspiration from OoT, etc. I'm fairly certain Ninten would be a semi clone or echo of Ness at best.

Ninten would also have the same forward smash as Ness, considering their shared affinity for baseball.

Ninten's up smash, however, I assume would be different, since yo-yos aren't in the original Mother.

Alternatively, Porky just shows much more promise. More people recognize Porky because he was a boss in Brawl, which even if this is an assumption, I think it's clear Brawl sold more the Beginnings. Plus, Porky has a much larger following than Ninten, and the surprise element of him being announced would therefore appeal to a much less niche audience.

Spoiler: For Anigriffin and Zack E

I don't know why you consistently disregarded my claim that relevance was not my only point, but I'll put it here for the third time to ensure there's no confusion:

PORKY IS MORE APPEALING TO CASUALS, HAS MORE FANSERVICE, IS MORE RELEVANT TO MODERN GAMING, HAS MORE MOVESET POTENTIAL, IS MORE PROMINENT TO HIS SERIES, IS A MUCH BIGGER ICON OF MOTHER THAN NINTEN, AND HAILS FROM MUCH MORE WELL RECEIVED GAMES THAN NINTEN.

There you go, you two. Now you can't say my only points were relevance.

Even further, Porky has no spirit. I know everyone here loves arguing that it's the ASC since Porky was locked there for all of eternity, but that would be overlooking Porky not having a spirit to represent Brawl. All the Brawl bosses have spirits, and I don't recall fighting the ASC in that game. They could very well be waiting to just add Porky as a spirit, but we don't know for sure. Because of that uncertainty, we can definitely say that him being added as a character is still on the table. Using an example from the same series to further disprove your claim about the ASC being Porky's spirit, take someone from the very same series, Claus.

Spoiler

Claus is the Masked Man, and yet, they both have spirits. At the end of Mother 3, Claus dies as Claus, not as the Masked Man. Using your argument that Porky is represented in his final form (the ASC) is entirely invalid because of the Masked Man spirit.

You could argue that next year is the anniversary of Mother 1, which would in turn boost Ninten's chances over Porky, but it's the anniversary of the franchise in its entirety, as well. It's not only a time to reflect on the first game, but rather, all the games in between. Like a real life anniversary; it's not just celebrating the very day you got married, it's a commemoration of all those moments in between.

So, thank you for sharing your opinions! I would like to share my opinions about why I believe Ninten would get in over Porky.

For moveset, you bring up a good point on why Lucas has moves that he didn't use in his game. He uses those moves to represent his party members. The PK moves Freeze, Thunder, and Fire come from Kumarora. The rope snake comes from Duster. Boney is represented through Lucas's final smash.

Ninten could have a unique moveset, described up above in this thread. Ninten's side smash could be him charging up a katana, Teddy's katana. His down smash could be him charging up the Hank's bat, doing a spinning motion and aimed towards the ground. His up smash could be him charging up Loid's flame thrower, then firing it upwards.

Porky was in Brawl in his Mother 3 mech most likely because Sakurai thought Mother 3 was going to be localized. However, it wasn't. A reason the spirit is just named "absolutely safe capsule" and not "(Porky)" at the end of it could be to avoid spoilers. Claus and Masked Man are different spirits and Claus doesn't evolve into Masked Man, so this was done most likely to avoid spoilers.

Keep in mind that Porky wouldn't exist without Ninten. Ninten started the Mother series, and Porky wouldn't have his appeal without Ninten. Earthbound and Mother 3 are indeed well received games, but these amazing games wouldn't have come to be without Mother 1 and Ninten. All the points you make about Porky being a better received addition than Ninten is because of Ninten. Porky wouldn't have his importance as an antagonist in the Mother series without Ninten

 

[Tetrin]

Spoiler: Anigriffin reply

I do thank you for stating your points more clearly here and yes Porky does have a chance however again your points are also matters of personal opinions.

Porky would also be a culmination of existing fighters namely Bowser Jr, Samus, and King Dedede. With 70 unique characters on the roster it’s almost impossible for one to be completely unique.

Not everyone has played Brawl either. The game is 10 years old now and Porky was possibly one of the more uninteresting bosses there. Also appealing to casuals doesn’t make much sense when the first DLC character, Joker, was anything but appealing to casuals.

People expecting Porky goes directly against what Reggie said about all the characters being surprise additions doesn’t it?

Itoi is the one that allows the certain characters to be spirits. Masked Man and Claus being seperated actually supports the argument of no obvious spoilers in the game and Porky is just that. A spoiler. The ASC was deliberately chosen for a reason.

Mother 1 is the only Mother game to not have a character represented in Smash. Mother 1 came to the states alongside Lucas as DLC in June 2015. Ninten coming with Mother 3 isn’t too hard of a reach if you think about it.

Now you don’t have to agree with everything I say obviously, but this is why I don’t think Porky is the most likely Mother rep. Is he possible? Certainly, I’m not going to argue that he’s impossible as this is Smash and anything’s possible I mean we got Ridley.

Just don’t count Ninty out is all. Have a nice day bud.

Being an uninteresting boss is extremely subjective, so you can't use it as a point. None of my arguments are opinions unless otherwise stated, so I'd like for you to point out which ones specifically are opinionated instead of dismissing them time and time again is mere opinions.

Also, how can you say "not everyone played Brawl"? Not everyone played Earthbound beginnings, the argument works both ways. It's extremely hypocritical since even LESS people played the first Mother game. Also, Brawl was the bestselling Smash game by nearly 4 million, so you should really look into your points before throwing them out there.

Appealing to casuals most certainly makes sense, because although Joker is somewhat niche, it's not like Persona 5 is completely unknown. Persona has a relatively large following, and even people who didn't play it were excited because of the surprise element. You do make a fair point, but bear in mind they're not going for completely niche and obscure choices, only moderately niche. And I didn't say appealing to casuals, I said MORE appealing to casuals. MORE appealing than Ninten.

Porky has absolutely nothing in common with anyone you said, and the only the he'd have that's similar is deploying mechs from his machine, which would still be different because they launch out and not waddle. You didn't even mention how they'd be similar, so feel free to elaborate on that, but I think even you know your stretching it with this one. Here's a concept art for a Porky moveset:

Spoiler: Picture

So anyway, you're very much incorrect about it spoiling anything. If that's the case, Sheik wouldn't be incessantly hinted at being a "she" and Porky would still have a representation for his Brawl form. Also, having the ASC and Porky spirit separate still doesn't spoil anything, since there's no implication.

Also, even if Itoi allows certain characters, I'm sure Itoi would much prefer Porky over Ninten. He even stated that Porky is his favorite character in the Mother franchise (Source), and my aforementioned reasons as to why Porky would likely get in over Ninten you've yet to counter, and I'm still holding them true.

Your point about Mother 1 is absolutely redundant, because Porky would probably come from Mother 3 before Ninten, especially since he's actually in the game. You've also counteracted yourself in saying this, because you just said Reggie is looking for a surprise. Mother 3 would be the main surprise, and both characters would be equally surprising. The thing is, more people know Porky, so more people would be positively surprised than just "I'm definitely surprised, but I have no idea who this guy is".

Spoiler: Zack E's reply

So, thank you for sharing your opinions! I would like to share my opinions about why I believe Ninten would get in over Porky.

For moveset, you bring up a good point on why Lucas has moves that he didn't use in his game. He uses those moves to represent his party members. The PK moves Freeze, Thunder, and Fire come from Kumarora. The rope snake comes from Duster. Boney is represented through Lucas's final smash.

Ninten could have a unique moveset, described up above in this thread. Ninten's side smash could be him charging up a katana, Teddy's katana. His down smash could be him charging up the Hank's bat, doing a spinning motion and aimed towards the ground. His up smash could be him charging up Loid's flame thrower, then firing it upwards.

Porky was in Brawl in his Mother 3 mech most likely because Sakurai thought Mother 3 was going to be localized. However, it wasn't. A reason the spirit is just named "absolutely safe capsule" and not "(Porky)" at the end of it could be to avoid spoilers. Claus and Masked Man are different spirits and Claus doesn't evolve into Masked Man, so this was done most likely to avoid spoilers.

Keep in mind that Porky wouldn't exist without Ninten. Ninten started the Mother series, and Porky wouldn't have his appeal without Ninten. Earthbound and Mother 3 are indeed well received games, but these amazing games wouldn't have come to be without Mother 1 and Ninten. All the points you make about Porky being a better received addition than Ninten is because of Ninten. Porky wouldn't have his importance as an antagonist in the Mother series without Ninten

The katana is definitely a good point, but I feel like his baseball bat is much more emblematic of, you know, himself. However, I can assure you Lucas doesn't use those moves to represent his party members. Don't forget these moves were already programmed since Ness had them, too, so it was probably just a lot easier to have Lucas learn them. You could definitely pass it off as it being emblematic of his party members, but imo it's more rational to assume the former simply because it's just easier.

Also, I already mentioned the bat, and I already acknowledged he COULD have a unique moveset in my first post here. My point was that although he has the potential to be unique, the development team behind Smash would just deal with Ninten as they did with Lucas, watering him down to nothing more than a Ness clone.

It doesn't matter why Porky was in Brawl, all that matters is that he WAS in Brawl, and because of that, a lot of people know who he is. Also, like I said to Anigriffin, they wouldn't have to put "ASC (Porky)" as his spirit name. Your point about Claus and the Masked Man would actually work better for my argument because they would've made the ASC and Porky two separate spirits.

Also, you can't really say Porky wouldn't have existed without Ninten because realistically, no one would've existed without Ninten, and yet, Ness and Lucas were added to the game before Ninten. It's untrue that Porky wouldn't have had his appeal without Ninten, though, because you could use the argument if the protagonist were anyone else. That's like saying, "This business is massively successful, but the CEO's father, despite having nothing to do with the business (Ninten really had nothing to do with the other games), are the REASON it's successful". Yes, they definitely contributed, but don't forget they're entirely different people.

As much as I'd love to see Ninten in HD 3d, I just think Porky will get it, first.

And even if there were to be a surprise Mother 1 character addition, I think the most surprising it can get is with Giygas.