NintenZone Social Thread: Shovel Knight Amiibo Hype Catastrophe (feat. Swamp)

[Naoshi]

I thought the Wii was proof enough that "console power" means nothing

Except several games were impossible to make on the system. There's more to console powers than just graphics.


I thought a lot of you would have learned about that after seeing how much the 3DS held Smash Bros back.

 

[AreJay25]

It was in response to someone asking if there's been any Smash news.

Doesn't necessarily imply an announcement.

On another topic, I noticed something rather strange: I was looking through the Smash Wii U section on The Spriter's Resource and I found the All-Star icons for every character. The strange thing about it?

Spoiler

The latest DLC characters seem to use their actual models rather than their own renders. It's really noticeable with Lucas. It's pretty jarring for them to be the odd ones out. Wonder why they made it like this?

 

[Burb]

Doesn't necessarily imply an announcement.

On another topic, I noticed something rather strange: I was looking through the Smash Wii U section on The Spriter's Resource and I found the All-Star icons for every character. The strange thing about it?

Spoiler

The latest DLC characters seem to use their actual models rather than their own renders. It's really noticeable with Lucas. It's pretty jarring for them to be the odd ones out. Wonder why they made it like this?

"Has there been any Smash news?"

"Well, Smash is going to be at EVO."

That makes no sense. He flat out said they're "saving it for EVO".

 

[Soul.]

I'm... not quite sure how the 3DS held Smash back? Was it because of a single character? Limitations are limitations; the game still works.
*cough* lol lol *cough*

 

[Naoshi]

I'm... not quite sure how the 3DS held Smash back? Was it because of a single character? Limitations are limitations; the game still works.
*cough* lol lol *cough*

Strictly speaking the 3DS version, Ice Climbers aside. What about stuff like the item restrictions? Ever noticed how insanely limiting it was? And I don't think certain levels would have ran well on the 3DS either. And then there's a lot of other things I don't have in the top of my head.

Point is, console power does matter. Maybe not on the same level as the industry wants to push it, but I am fairly certain that certain kind of games would not be possible on weaker hardware without some huge kind of restriction.

I don't think a full fledged Minecraft would be possible on the Wii. Heck, wasn't there some form of restriction on the 360 version too?

Another point: Third party support? Many of them would rather stick with higher end consoles. If they want to port it to the current Nintendo system, they would have to scale back a bunch and compromise graphics and (if any) CPU-intensive content/gameplay, and that requires a lot of work, making porting cost time and resource.

It would be far easier to port games if Nintendo's system had comparable power (it doesn't NEED to be a graphical powerhouse, just get something a little close as good).

Don't get me wrong, I love the Wii U and find it a really fun system, but there are massive disadvantages for going with last-gen levels of power.

 

[Burb]

I'm... not quite sure how the 3DS held Smash back? Was it because of a single character? Limitations are limitations; the game still works.
*cough* lol lol *cough*

There was also the removal of transformations, but that was arguably a good thing.

...like the item restrictions? And I don't think certain levels would have ran well on the 3DS either. And then there's a lot of other things I don't have in the top of my head.

Uhhh......stages differ between versions, so there's no way the 3DS version's inability to handle certain stages "held Smash back".

 

[SuperMii3D]

I'm... not quite sure how the 3DS held Smash back? Was it because of a single character? Limitations are limitations; the game still works.
*cough* lol lol *cough*

Wheres my Smash Run coop? :'(

 

[cmbsfm]

I thought the Wii was proof enough that "console power" means nothing

I agree console power itself doesn't mean much(ex: Jaguar), but the wii missed out on many 3rd party games because of it's hardware not being on par. It catered to casuals, which are all now gone to smartphones. It will be really difficult to replicate the success of the wii trying to cater to that same market.

 

[Soul.]

I dunno, man---a lot of people have been asking for a handheld Smash for years; with the 3DS having a bigger install base than Wii U, it made sense to make the 3DS version. Games, quite obviously, aren't perfect. Limitations will still be present even on the strongest of systems.

If they wanted to, they could make ICs Wii U exclusive (bad idea), but then there's this handheld with its own version of the game, with loads of players...

 

[Naoshi]

I dunno, man---a lot of people have been asking for a handheld Smash for years; with the 3DS having a bigger install base than Wii U, it made sense to make the 3DS version. Games, quite obviously, aren't perfect. Limitations will still be present even on the strongest of systems.

If they wanted to, they could make ICs Wii U exclusive (bad idea), but then there's this handheld with its own version of the game, with loads of players...

You are missing my point. I'm speaking about the 3DS version of Smash. I'm talking things like New Pork City-scale of levels probably would not be possible.

I'm not saying the game is FLAWED because of that. I am in no way of bashing the game. But I am saying that console/handheld power DOES matter in terms of limitations, more than just graphics.

Uhhh......stages differ between versions, so there's no way the 3DS version's inability to handle certain stages "held Smash back".

Burb, you and I know that I'm not that dumb.

 

[Burb]

You are missing my point. I'm speaking about the 3DS version of Smash. I'm talking things like New Pork City-scale of levels probably would not be possible.

I'm not saying the game is FLAWED because of that. I am in no way of bashing the game. But I am saying that console/handheld power DOES matter in terms of limitations, more than just graphics.

Given that the Ice Climbers were mentioned, I had assumed we were talking about 3DS issues that effected both versions.

 

[Naoshi]

Given that the Ice Climbers were mentioned, I had assumed we were talking about 3DS issues that effected both versions.

Fair enough.

Anyways before I've realized everyone replied, I've noticed I've posted my post way too soon and edited it for better clarifications. I'll just repost it:

Strictly speaking the 3DS version, Ice Climbers aside. What about stuff like the item restrictions? Ever noticed how insanely limiting it was? And I don't think certain levels would have ran well on the 3DS either. And then there's a lot of other things I don't have in the top of my head.

Point is, console power does matter. Maybe not on the same level as the industry wants to push it, but I am fairly certain that certain kind of games would not be possible on weaker hardware without some huge kind of restriction.

I don't think a full fledged Minecraft would be possible on the Wii. Heck, wasn't there some form of restriction on the 360 version too?

Another point: Third party support? Many of them would rather stick with higher end consoles. If they want to port it to the current Nintendo system, they would have to scale back a bunch and compromise graphics and (if any) CPU-intensive content/gameplay, and that requires a lot of work, making porting cost time and resource.

It would be far easier to port games if Nintendo's system had comparable power (it doesn't NEED to be a graphical powerhouse, just get something a little close as good).

Don't get me wrong, I love the Wii U and find it a really fun system, but there are massive disadvantages for going with last-gen levels of power.

 

[TheAnvil]

I wish Sakurai had just said "If Ice Climbers don't work on the 3DS, then they'll just be on the Wii U version".

It pains me that the Wii U version suffered for a version that most Smash fans only played while they waited for the Wii U version.

 

[AreJay25]

"Has there been any Smash news?"

"Well, Smash is going to be at EVO."

That makes no sense. He flat out said they're "saving it for EVO".

Reading it again, it does seem like that's what he was saying.

Still, this has been addressed so many times that I just assumed we weren't expecting anything at EVO anymore.

 

[Naoshi]

I wish Sakurai had just said "If Ice Climbers don't work on the 3DS, then they'll just be on the Wii U version".

It pains me that the Wii U version suffered for a version that most Smash fans don't even play any more...

Honestly, I get where Sakurai is coming from. And remember, Smash 3DS has far outsold the Wii U version.

 

[TheAnvil]

Honestly, I get where Sakurai is coming from. And remember, Smash 3DS has far outsold the Wii U version.

It wouldn't have lost sales if the Wii U got an exclusive character that the 3DS couldn't cope with. It was an arbitrary rule that was of no benefit to anyone.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

I play the 3DS version more often because it's my own personal system. The Wii U is the family console and they don't always want to play Smash.

But anyway, people really need to stop bashing the 3DS version. Sure the Ice Climbers being cut sucks. All cuts suck. But it's still a full-fledged Smash game, running at 60fps, on a handheld.

 

[Naoshi]

It wouldn't have lost sales if the Wii U got an exclusive character that the 3DS couldn't cope with.

It wouldn't, but I do think many people still play the 3DS version. The more hardcore/regular Smashers like us mostly moved on to the Wii U, this isn't to say the several casuals didn't either, but I'm sure several others are sticking with the 3DS.

I play the 3DS version more often because it's my own personal system. The Wii U is the family console and they don't always want to play Smash.

But anyway, people really need to stop bashing the 3DS version. Sure the Ice Climbers being cut sucks. All cuts suck. But it's still a full-fledged Smash game, running at 60fps, on a handheld.

No one was bashing the 3DS version? I merely pointed out how system limitations does affect games. That is all.

I actually almost prefer the 3DS version over the Wii U tbh lol

 

[ThePenguinGamer0]

On another topic, I noticed something rather strange: I was looking through the Smash Wii U section on The Spriter's Resource and I found the All-Star icons for every character. The strange thing about it?

Spoiler

The latest DLC characters seem to use their actual models rather than their own renders. It's really noticeable with Lucas. It's pretty jarring for them to be the odd ones out. Wonder why they made it like this?

I noticed this as I was playing All-Star.

If all DLC characters were like this, I could understand. Mewtwo seems to still be using his render, though, so it's just weird.

 

[TheAnvil]

It wouldn't, but I do think many people still play the 3DS version. The more hardcore/regular Smashers like us mostly moved on to the Wii U, this isn't to say the several casuals didn't either, but I'm sure several others are sticking with the 3DS.

Maybe, but I think the point remains that no one has benefitted from the rule that they had to have the same rosters.

I play the 3DS version more often because it's my own personal system. The Wii U is the family console and they don't always want to play Smash.

But anyway, people really need to stop bashing the 3DS version. Sure the Ice Climbers being cut sucks. All cuts suck. But it's still a full-fledged Smash game, running at 60fps, on a handheld.

No one is bashing it. I'm saying that it's an inferior version of Smash, which it is. And they shouldn't have arbitrarily cut a character from the Wii U version just because the inferior version couldn't handle it. Wii U users lost an entire character *and franchise*, and the 3DS wouldn't have them either way. So nobody gained anything by having them cut.

 

[AreJay25]

I can perfectly understand Sakurai's logic with the Ice Climbers. Sure, you could argue that including the Ice Climbers wouldn't affect sales, but you have to take into account that not everyone can acquire a Wii U. If you give either version an exclusive character, people are going to be upset, especially if there's no plans for them to be on both systems.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

No one was bashing the 3DS version? I merely pointed out how system limitations does affect games. That is all.

I actually almost prefer the 3DS version over the Wii U tbh lol

Never said anyone here was bashing the 3DS version, but it's still something I see with annoying regularity.
And yeah, as someone who doesn't care much at all for 8-player Smash and Smash Tour, the only things the Wii U version has over the 3DS version for me are some of the stages and HD visuals.

 

[Naoshi]

Never said anyone here was bashing the 3DS version, but it's still something I see with annoying regularity.
And yeah, as someone who doesn't care much at all for 8-player Smash and Smash Tour, the only things the Wii U version has over the 3DS version for me are some of the stages and HD visuals.

I agree + the GC controller. (Although I like the 3DS's color pallete more, I wish the Wii U was just as colorful lol)

 

[TheAnvil]

I can perfectly understand Sakurai's logic with the Ice Climbers. Sure, you could argue that including the Ice Climbers wouldn't affect sales, but you have to take into account that not everyone can acquire a Wii U. If you give either version an exclusive character, people are going to be upset, especially if there's no plans for them to be on both systems.

I don't recall anyone ******** that the first Sonic Racing game on the 3DS had an inferior roster to the console versions. It's something that people expect with handheld versions of games that get console releases.

 

[Naoshi]

I don't recall anyone ******** that the first Sonic Racing game on the 3DS had an inferior roster to the console versions. It's something that people expect with handheld versions of games that get console releases.

Smash Bros fans =/= Sonic Racing fans

Smash Bros's fandom are generally far more dedicated and passionate. Sonic Racing kind of just exists compared to Smash. I mean I love the game but... I rarely see people caring too much.

And I don't think many liked the 3DS version of All Stars Racing (are you speaking about Transformed?) because judging from the demo, it was awful.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

I agree + the GC controller. (Although I like the 3DS's color pallete more, I wish the Wii U was just as colorful lol)

GC contoller is a plus, too, but I've been doing just fine with the classic pro, at least until I can find that bitchin' Luigi Hori fightpad or whatever it's called. I find the 3DS CSS to be much more attractive, as well, with all the vibrant portrait backgrounds and such.
The Wii U has better music selection too, but I kind of enjoy having the 3DS stages confined to two tracks each, makes it feel nostalgic. I do still feel pretty bitter whenever that nice, new arrangement of the Star Wolf theme cranks up on Corneria, though. Lol.

 

[AreJay25]

I don't recall anyone ******** that the first Sonic Racing game on the 3DS had an inferior roster to the console versions. It's something that people expect with handheld versions of games that get console releases.

Smash and All Stars are two entirely different games. Smash's roster is really important, especially to gameplay. Nintendo knows this. All Stars can survive without a few characters from the console version.

 

[Soul.]

It's hard to think people will stop playing the 3DS version honestly. It's Smash on a handheld, one you can use to play on the go or whatever. Add into account the "huge" library of games the 3DS has, too.
I don't even care if it's called the inferior version. That is so 2014 tbh lol, but to each their own.

You are missing my point. I'm speaking about the 3DS version of Smash. I'm talking things like New Pork City-scale of levels probably would not be possible.

I'm not saying the game is FLAWED because of that. I am in no way of bashing the game. But I am saying that console/handheld power DOES matter in terms of limitations, more than just graphics.

oops my bad; i get it now.

 

[Naoshi]

It's hard to think people will stop playing the 3DS version honestly. It's Smash on a handheld, one you can use to play on the go or whatever. Add into account the "huge" library of games the 3DS has, too.
I don't even care if it's called the inferior version. That is so 2014 tbh lol, but to each their own.

oops my bad; i get it now.

It was honestly my fault for hitting reply way too soon. I tend to rush out my posts without thinking. It's a really nasty habit because I am not very used to writing detailed posts sometimes. Hopefully I'll get rid of that habit someday

 

[Substitution]

I don't recall anyone ******** that the first Sonic Racing game on the 3DS had an inferior roster to the console versions. It's something that people expect with handheld versions of games that get console releases.

Well it didn't help that the 3DS version of Transformed sucked.
Seriously, if Mario Kart could run fine, how the Hell did that get as much lag as it did?

 

[Champ Gold]

It's hard to think people will stop playing the 3DS version honestly. It's Smash on a handheld, one you can use to play on the go or whatever. Add into account the "huge" library of games the 3DS has, too.
I don't even care if it's called the inferior version. That is so 2014 tbh lol, but to each their own.

oops my bad; i get it now.

The only reason it's considered inferior is the graphics, online, features and its controls (which is decent and fine on the 3DD but the Wii U has much more options.

Outside of those, it's pretty much the same experience and overall equal on both sides.

Hell, Smash 3DS is superior to where Smash Run craps all over Smash Tour

 

[DoodleDuck97]

All that time getting the ice Climbers working on Wii U.
They probably had a Render done, Final Smash and all their Trophies.
Probably had all their alts. And completely running as we know.
If I recall @PushDustIn posted a bunch of the trophies and their was a specific slot were they were missing.
All That Data is sitting there doing nothing now. And completely wasted.
Unless we get a definitive port with them and all the DLC.
I want to see them return even if it means exclusives.

 

[DMurr]

All that time getting the ice Climbers working on Wii U.
They probably had a Render done, Final Smash and all their Trophies.
Probably had all their alts. And completely running as we know.
If I recall @PushDustIn posted a bunch of the trophies and their was a specific slot were they were missing.
All That Data is sitting there doing nothing now. And completely wasted.
Unless we get a definitive port with them and all the DLC.
I want to see them return even if it means exclusives.

I'm not sure they would dump that much time into preparing them when Sakurai knew early on that there were issues with them. The interview talking about it was in like 2013, wasn't it? If not, then early 2014.

 

[AreJay25]

I still play the 3DS version from time to time (although that might change since I didn't get the new DLC for it lol). It's fine for what it is, even if I prefer the Wii U version by a large margin. It does what it's intended to do, and that's to play Smash on the go.

 

[Soul.]

The only reason it's considered inferior is the graphics, online, features and its controls (which is decent and fine on the 3DD but the Wii U has much more options.

Outside of those, it's pretty much the same experience and overall equal on both sides.

Hell, Smash 3DS is superior to where Smash Run craps all over Smash Tour

Yeah, I mean, well, Smash Run is obviously 'superior' to Smash Tour. If the 3DS were a bit stronger, co-op may have been a thing. Nevertheless, I'm happy with the outcome. It's probably a preference thing though.
Also, people really shouldn't be comparing graphics with graphics. At its core, it's Smash Bros., but it's a different take on the series. I may sound biased here, but if (a big IF) the new handheld is a lot more powerful than the 3DS, I want to see an improved handheld Smash.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

I'm not sure they would dump that much time into preparing them when Sakurai knew early on that there were issues with them. The interview talking about it was in like 2013, wasn't it? If not, then early 2014.

Fair Enough.
I really should just leave to the more knowledgeable on this front.
Main Bias strikes again.

 

[Champ Gold]

Hey guys, VGBOOTCAMP is also doing a stream of another Melee/Smash 4 tournament.

Some big names are there so it won't be too boring.

All that time getting the ice Climbers working on Wii U.
They probably had a Render done, Final Smash and all their Trophies.
Probably had all their alts. And completely running as we know.
If I recall @PushDustIn posted a bunch of the trophies and their was a specific slot were they were missing.
All That Data is sitting there doing nothing now. And completely wasted.
Unless we get a definitive port with them and all the DLC.
I want to see them return even if it means exclusives.

I think they can get them working on the 3DS, I the problem was mostly a time issue and trying to have them work at constant 60 fps.

I think they'll have the time and management to do so. I know it will

Yeah, I mean, well, Smash Run is obviously 'superior' to Smash Tour. If the 3DS were a bit stronger, co-op may have been a thing. Nevertheless, I'm happy with the outcome. It's probably a preference thing though.
Also, people really shouldn't be comparing graphics with graphics. At its core, it's Smash Bros., but it's a different take on the series. I may sound biased here, but if (a big IF) the new handheld is a lot more powerful than the 3DS, I want to see an improved handheld Smash.

I do too, Smash on a handheld is the greatest thing ever

 

[SuperMii3D]

I barely play Smash Wii-U >_> The reason is that I can use the 3DS anytime I want and its just much more convenient that way.

 

[Substitution]

I play 3DS. Mostly for the small reason being I don't own a Wii U.

 

[Deleted member]

I play 3DS. Mostly for the small reason being I don't own a Wii U.

Same boat.