Social NintenZone Social 6.0 - L'Arachel Edition, Apparently?

[Natz~]

The thing that bothers me the most is waching react videos and seeing people boo WFT, miis and Bayo when they showed up.

....okay even though they have their place in there, i can see why they boo'd WFT and the miis....

....by why the **** would anyone boo bayo?

 

[praline]

....okay even though they have their place in there, i can see why they boo'd WFT and the miis....

....by why the **** would anyone boo bayo?

Cause she’s top tier in 4.

 

[Yellowlord]

Oh, you wanna bring up the Waluigi thing?

Somebody sent Sakurai pictures on Twitter comparing him to Hitler and him not adding Waluigi to 9/11 and then made a fuss that Sakurai blocked them.

Fricking A, this fandom.

Yup: I literally don't understand this fandom sometimes myself. And I'm going to get a bit aggressive here towards these people, but what the actual hell is going on in these people's minds? JUST BE GRATEFUL for what Sakurai has done instead of getting mad at him for his decisions. I get it, a lot of people genuinely wanted him to get in, but he's an Assist Trophy: it's time for them to move on.

 

[Metal Shop X]

....okay even though they have their place in there, i can see why they boo'd WFT and the miis....

....by why the **** would anyone boo bayo?

Because Bayo is hated by pro players.

Also, leave my alone, they did nothing bad. :C

 

[redfeatherraven]

why the **** would anyone boo bayo?

Because they're salty about fighting Bayo.

And have small and fragile egos.

Possibly not in that order.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Honestly I don't understand why people would boo WFT, she's a cool character, that's pretty funny as well. Her reveal was really funny back when the 4 was announced, as well.

 

[Schnee117]

....okay even though they have their place in there, i can see why they boo'd WFT and the miis....

....by why the **** would anyone boo bayo?

Ballot salt, a few pro players and Twitch Monsters.

 

[Natz~]

I guess Inklings didn’t count cause we already knew they were in?

...and Daisy didn’t count cause she’s a clone?

thats ****ing stupid

Cause she’s top tier in 4.

Because Bayo is hated by pro players.

Because they're salty about fighting Bayo.

And have small and fragile egos.

Possibly not in that order.

that is equally ****ing stupid

 

[Coricus]

Yup: I literally don't understand this fandom sometimes myself. And I'm going to get a bit aggressive here towards these people, but what the actual hell is going on in these people's minds? JUST BE GRATEFUL for what Sakurai has done instead of getting mad at him for his decisions. I get it, a lot of people genuinely wanted him to get in, but he's an Assist Trophy: it's time for them to move on.

Every time someone suggests to be grateful for a game on the internet another person swoops in to say that no one should be grateful for something you have to pay money for.

But even that aside, people should like, be realistic and not a bunch of obnoxious spitemonkeys. And not be toxic towards actual, living human beings because you didn't get some insignificant little thing in a video game. This kind of behavior is inexcusable.

 

[Metal Shop X]

thats ****ing stupid



that is equally ****ing stupid

Welcome to competitive play.

Brawl Meta Knight & Brawl/Melee Ice Climbers are still the Kings of Salt too.

 

[Natz~]

Welcome to competitive play.

Brawl Meta Knight & Brawl/Melee Ice Climbers are still the Kings of Salt too.

whelp good thing i never gave one damn about competitive

 

[ChikoLad]

The entire gimmick with this game is that it's bringing back buttloads of cut content that likely took as much effort as half a game's worth of full content with the sheer volume of it combined with the effort put into polishing it and revamping already present characters.

The problem is that people have the attention spans of flies, so unless it's SHINY NEW TOYS they assume work done wasn't actual work at all, even if it was specifically things that half the fandom were begging for incessantly.

Even though, y'know, we're getting literally every character back and from the looks of it most likely every stage as well. With all the stages given face lifts. But NEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWW

I perfectly acknowledge that stages were given a face lift in some cases, and so were some of the characters redesigned, but tbh I'd rather not pay full price for a game that's just "Smash 64 + Melee + Brawl + Wii U + 3DS in HD with Smash Wii U mechanics" if that's all it is. I have faith there will be more to it than that, but my issue here is that Nintendo failed to communicate that at a time when all eyes were on the game.

My issue here isn't with Sakurai as a developer here, to be clear. It's with Nintendo as a publisher and marketing team for the game. Sakurai is being upfront about the fact that the game is built upon the previous game's framework and as such is using a lot of ported code and assets, but that is being done so they can refine game mechanics and possibly add more content that was missing from the last game. Personally, that's actually exactly what I wanted from this game, if I can actually see that new content, that is.

It's Nintendo that's fumbling about going "uuuuuhhhh it's not a port but it's not sequel I think????". They also failed to even hint at further content beyond VS Mode and Online battles even in interviews. I just think the way it's being presented so far is misguided.

 

[Yellowlord]

Every time someone suggests to be grateful for a game on the internet another person swoops in to say that no one should be grateful for something you have to pay money for.

But even that aside, people should like, be realistic and not a bunch of obnoxious spitemonkeys. And not be toxic towards actual, living human beings because you didn't get some insignificant little thing in a video game. This kind of behavior is inexcusable.

And that's where those other people would be wrong: if something costs money, that means a lot of heart and soul went into the game being made, hence everyone should be grateful as Smash is no exception to that. Based off the scaling of its content, it's 100% worth 60 dollars and no questions should be asked about it. If anyone says not to be grateful because of the game costing money, I would just have no words because they're missing the point of what a game is about: it's either a team effort or a solo person's efforts to create something that has their own ideas in them.

It's without question that people need to be more realistic as their current behavior is very unexcusable and unacceptable. Sakurai literally worked himself so much on Smash 4 and then almost immediately got started on the next game even if it was just for the planning phases. And yet this is how people respond to him? By trash talking and sending very inappropriate memes at him to crush his spirit even after he worked so god damn hard on this game over a single freaking character that didn't get in?

It's just... saddening, really.

 

[redfeatherraven]

tbh I'd rather not pay full price for a game that's just "Smash 64 + Melee + Brawl + Wii U + 3DS in HD with Smash Wii U mechanics" if that's all it is.

I would.

That's literally everything I'm asking for and they earned full price on it.

Anything else is gravy.

Period.

 

[Metal Shop X]

whelp good thing i never gave one damn about competitive

Yeah, good choice.

Also, they are in fact alot of character in Smash history causing loads of salt, , , (pre-nerf), etc..it's not new to fighting game that some characters are more salt-inducing than others, but that still doesn't excuse some peoples behavior.

 

[praline]

How can you not be grateful? Ultimate is gonna have close to or (possibly)more than 70 playable characters and over 80 stages... it’s gonna have like 1000 songs too.

This game is gonna be insane.

 

[ChikoLad]

And that's where those people would be wrong for saying you shouldn't be grateful for paying money for a game: if something costs money, that means a lot of heart and soul went into the game being made

Oh, to be naive and young again...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=218344472

 

[praline]

but tbh I'd rather not pay full price for a game that's just "Smash 64 + Melee + Brawl + Wii U + 3DS in HD with Smash Wii U mechanics".

You really come off as a spoiled brat.

 

[Yellowlord]

Oh, to be naive and young again...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=218344472

Admittedly, there are times where that's not the case, and I've seen them. Even then, my point stands that if most games cost a lot of money, that usually ends up meaning it's a good and content filled game as it also signifies the amount of content that's present.

 

[redfeatherraven]

Oh, to be naive and young again...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=218344472

Comparing Smash Ultimate to the a list of Absolute Worst Games On Steam is like comparing Nia to a list of The Absolute Worst Fursonas On DeviantArt.

We can do it if you like, but I think we both know that argument's in bad faith.

 

[ChikoLad]

You really come off as a spoiled brat.

Or I just have standards and I'm not one of those hypocritical NIntendo fans who criticise other companies for a certain practice, but will white knight Nintendo to the death when they do the same thing and give them all of their money.

Not that Ultimate is exactly that just yet, just saying that it remains to be proven how much new content is there, but them not showing much of it leaves me with a degree of skepticism, and I think Nintendo only have themselves to blame for the "it's a port" accusations.

Admittedly, there are times where that's not the case, and I've seen them. Even then, my point stands that if most games cost a lot of money, that usually ends up meaning it's a good and content filled game as it also signifies the amount of content that's present.

The price of the product is irrelevant.

Never assume that just because something costs money, it's made with "heart and soul".

If anything it's safer to assume that something that's free or of a lower price will be a passion project, as opposed to full price games published by corporations.

Comparing Smash Ultimate to the a list of Absolute Worst Games On Steam is like comparing Nia to a list of The Absolute Worst Fursonas On DeviantArt.

We can do it if you like, but I think we both know that argument's in bad faith.

I didn't compare Smash to them though?

 

[Coricus]

I perfectly acknowledge that stages were given a face lift in some cases, and so were some of the characters redesigned, but tbh I'd rather not pay full price for a game that's just "Smash 64 + Melee + Brawl + Wii U + 3DS in HD with Smash Wii U mechanics" if that's all it is. I have faith there will be more to it than that, but my issue here is that Nintendo failed to communicate that at a time when all eyes were on the game.

My issue here isn't with Sakurai as a developer here, to be clear. It's with Nintendo as a publisher and marketing team for the game. Sakurai is being upfront about the fact that the game is built upon the previous game's framework and as such is using a lot of ported code and assets, but that is being done so they can refine game mechanics and possibly add more content that was missing from the last game. Personally, that's actually exactly what I wanted from this game, if I can actually see that new content, that is.

It's Nintendo that's fumbling about going "uuuuuhhhh it's not a port but it's not sequel I think????". They also failed to even hint at further content beyond VS Mode and Online battles even in interviews. I just think the way it's being presented so far is misguided.

Not saying that it's a sequel is pretty ridiculous obviously, although they might be doing that to dance around the Wii U fanboys that rant every time a superior version of a game is brought to the Switch. Not that it's justification, I just really hate the attitude on those guys and I can see Nintendo being scared of them.

The pure and utter avoidance of single player modes is weird as hell and the more I think about it the more there has to be some kind of conscious reason behind it. Whether it's because it all totally sucks or because there's a massive reveal in the pipeline I don't know, but getting exactly NIL is beyond bizarre. It's not that it even had a bad showing, it had NO showing. None. That's beyond a failure of messaging and well into "OK what are they trying to hide here" territory.

And I mean I'd love to see more Smash ASAP but people cried hard about the fact that it even got as much of a focus at E3 as it did.

E3 was the way it was because by far the core crowd's biggest obsession is cut veteran characters, followed fairly distantly by Ridley. That's not even a contest, once a character is cut they instantly top most requested lists. That was their tactic. And judging by reactions? It largely worked.

 

[Yellowlord]

Not saying that it's a sequel is pretty ridiculous obviously, although they might be doing that to dance around the Wii U fanboys that rant every time a superior version of a game is brought to the Switch. Not that it's justification, I just really hate the attitude on those guys and I can see Nintendo being scared of them.

The pure and utter avoidance of single player modes is weird as hell and the more I think about it the more there has to be some kind of conscious reason behind it. Whether it's because it all totally sucks or because there's a massive reveal in the pipeline I don't know, but getting exactly NIL is beyond bizarre. It's not that it even had a bad showing, it had NO showing. None. That's beyond a failure of messaging and well into "OK what are they trying to hide here" territory.

And I mean I'd love to see more Smash ASAP but people cried hard about the fact that it even got as much of a focus at E3 as it did.

E3 was the way it was because by far the core crowd's biggest obsession is cut veteran characters, followed fairly distantly by Ridley. That's not even a contest, once a character is cut they instantly top most requested lists. That was their tactic. And judging by reactions? It largely worked.

To be honest, the Wii U fans simply have to accept what's happening at this point: I understand their frustrations, but the Wii U didn't do as well as the Switch did. That's simply what happened at the end of the day.

As for single player modes, I feel like the hint of Sakurai saying that the unlock progress is going to be streamlined may be pointing towards a story mode of the sorts. I still remember Sakurai saying there wasn't one in Smash 4 due to the fact that people leaked Brawl's cutscenes online and is terrified of that happening again. And while I understand this fear, I'm sure things have changed to the point of where that can either be avoided or just have to be accepted as I know most people will try to avoid spoilers anyway.

Even I admit that Smash got quite a lot of screen-time even though Nintendo had said it would be their main focus. I guess it was just the lack of games that Nintendo had besides Smash to show either way...

Yeah: this being an Ultimate game, I can get why the fans would be excited about the return of veterans and the inclusion of RIdley. Sakurai even intentionally thought this is what the players wanted, and boy can I say he was right.

 

[praline]

To be honest, the Wii U fans simply have to accept what's happening at this point: I understand their frustrations, but the Wii U didn't do as well as the Switch did. That's simply what happened at the end of the day.

As for single player modes, I feel like the hint of Sakurai saying that the unlock progress is going to be streamlined may be pointing towards a story mode of the sorts. I still remember Sakurai saying there wasn't one in Smash 4 due to the fact that people leaked Brawl's cutscenes online and is terrified of that happening again. And while I understand this fear, I'm sure things have changed to the point of where that can either be avoided or just have to be accepted as I know most people will try to avoid spoilers anyway.

Even I admit that Smash got quite a lot of screen-time even though Nintendo had said it would be their main focus. I guess it was just the lack of games that Nintendo had besides Smash to show either way...

Yeah: this being an Ultimate game, I can get why the fans would be excited about the return of veterans and the inclusion of RIdley. Sakurai even intentionally thought this is what the players wanted, and boy can I say he was right.

A subspace emissary 2 would be ****ing cool!

 

[Yellowlord]

The price of the product is irrelevant.

Never assume that just because something costs money, it's made with "heart and soul".

If anything it's safer to assume that something that's free or of a lower price will be a passion project, as opposed to full price games published by corporations.

I mean, I can somewhat agree with the price usually being irrelevant, but I feel Smash is one of those exceptions where it's worth the money for what it is along with how much work was put into it. I know this doesn't apply to every game and that indies/passion projects will cost a lot less, but still.

 

[praline]

Man though... 60 unlockable characters. That’s gonna be a ride.

 

[Coricus]

Or I just have standards and I'm not one of those hypocritical NIntendo fans who criticise other companies for a certain practice, but will white knight Nintendo to the death when they do the same thing and give them all of their money.

Not that Ultimate is exactly that just yet, just saying that it remains to be proven how much new content is there, but them not showing much of it leaves me with a degree of skepticism, and I think Nintendo only have themselves to blame for the "it's a port" accusations.

No, no, even if they'd shown 20 new characters they'd be getting "it's a port" accusations.

People were already too far down this rabbit hole before the first trailer was even shown, and by that I mean the hole on the rabbit's back end. These types literally only care about dramatic artstyle changes, and trying to attribute any more reasoning to it is giving them far too much credit.

By and large I don't care what any other company does, I don't buy other companies' games typically because they tend to have a dark and gritty feel that isn't to my tastes in media. What I will do is consciously look over what's been done with a game I intend to purchase instead of making knee-jerk reactions. I had several requests for what I wanted improved in a Smash Bros sequel, some more reasonable than others, and even many of the less reasonable ones came to pass just from what was covered at E3. Granted, my primary buy-or-reject term was simply whether or not I got the majority of the characters I liked back, but even if I decided to be anal about everything I thought was amiss four years ago this game still would have largely met my standards.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Man though... 60 unlockable characters. That’s gonna be a ride.

*Finishes first ever battle of the game* *Blarring sirens* CHALLENGER APPROACHING!!!
me: Really?! Already?!

 

[praline]

*Finishes first ever battle of the game* *Blarring sirens* CHALLENGER APPROACHING!!!
me: Really?! Already?!

I don’t think you’ll have to fight them to unlock them now.

 

[redfeatherraven]

I didn't compare Smash to them though?

No, not directly.

My understanding is that you were attempting to use a certain point I'm familiar with, anecdotally, as "one white blackbird." That is, "All it takes is one white blackbird to prove that not all blackbirds are black." When examples are available and verifiable, it's an effective argument against absolutes.

And it's fair to say it was used accurately. Yellow's statement was blanket, this was a fair counter to the blanket statement.

But there's some pretty serious tacit implications in the context of the current discussion. One could point out, for example, that you used a series of below-standards games to illustrate a point related to a debate about a game that, were it comprised of nothing more than the current information presented, falls below your standards.

Now you've acknowledged, and I concur, that there's more to be seen. Therefore we can't really make a solid debate over the game's deserved price point yet, as only one of the two of us has a solidified stance.

What I would like to know is why you believe a game with five games' worth of fighters, at least 7 of which are new to this installment and 2 of which are new to the series as a whole, crammed into a shell with a host of mechanical changes and a who's-who of the best stages the series has offered thus far, is not worth its price of entry.

Because that is my argument, in full, why it is. That is more than sufficient content for me, especially this fast - we haven't gotten a Smash title this early into a console cycle since Melee. If Sakurai did nothing else - literally nothing else, no adventure mode, no SSE, no Smash Run, no equivalents, no kidding - I'd have sixty dollars in his hand on launch day.

It isn't about standards at that point. It's about being a man who knows what he's here for.

And what I am here for is beating the **** out of the widest possible array of Nintendo characters with a yellow lightning rat on a system that can go nearly anywhere and has a half-decent not-3DS control scheme and that is what they are letting me do.

 

[praline]

It’s gonna be amusing when we find out all the newcomers and Rex and Pyra aren’t one of them.

 

[redfeatherraven]

I don’t think you’ll have to fight them to unlock them now.

I hope you still do.

That's half the fun for me.

 

[praline]

I hope you still do.

That's half the fun for me.

It is but I don’t expect it

 

[Deleted member]

Oh my ****ing god if you don't like the game just don't buy it. Ultimate isn't offending or harming anyone by existing.

 

[Metal Shop X]

It’s gonna be amusing when we find out all the newcomers and Rex and Pyra aren’t one of them.

I be cool with Elma honestly, Rex & Pyra (or any XB2 character honestly) could be DLC characters.

So whatever get in first, it's a win-win for me.

 

[redfeatherraven]

It is but I don’t expect it

I understand they said they streamlined the process for unlocking new characters.

I expect that meant more regarding their unlock conditions than dropping the Defeat Means Friendship bit.

 

[Natz~]

Oh my ****ing god if you don't like the game just don't buy it. Ultimate isn't offending or harming anyone by existing.

basically god damn much

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Oh my ****ing god if you don't like the game just don't buy it. Ultimate isn't offending or harming anyone by existing.

it seems easier to just ***** about it

 

[redfeatherraven]

it seems easier to just ***** about it

If the parts of my Mio vs Coffee talk this morning proved anything, easier does not always equal better.

 

[praline]

Oh my ****ing god if you don't like the game just don't buy it. Ultimate isn't offending or harming anyone by existing.

But what’s life without complaining about insignificant things?